Page: 123
Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:The topic of Poi becoming mainstream, a form of competition or the connection between Poi and money seems to concern spinners. On the other hand some are dreaming of Poi becoming a recognised dance/art or even an olympic discipline.

My question: Where do you see Poi in the Future and what do you think would be the positive/negative characteristics of it?!?

Just some brainstorming . . .


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:fraknkly I don't see it going much further than other forms of juggling or perhaps belly dancing.



the positive and negative characteristics of more exposure to poi have been discussed at length before (and there was a whole thread just on poi in the olympics). I'm in the camp that vaguely regrets it becoming somewhat mundane, but loves fniding more and more spinners all over enough to be more happy about its spread than sad.



It does neccisarly lead to more (legal and self-policing) regulation of fire performers in general though - since only most fire performers are responsible about it, and there will always be some yahoos among us being too wild and wreckless and performing at inaapropriate locations. If there are only handful of fire performers in a city - no need for regulation. if there are 50 or 200 (many large cities have these numbers and more), then it is too high profile to fly under the police and fire marshal's radar any longer, especially when too many of those are newbies who think they can start busking when all they know is the weave and have no clue as to local laws.



Which leads me to the point that the larger the fire community grows, the more it has to self regulate.



I understand guilds and why they exist much better now.



but that does not apply to non-fire poi, which is what I was refering to with juggling/belly dancing analogy.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:i hope that poi extends into schools as i think it would be great for kids for getting better hand eye coordination and if it was integrated and guided in such a way that poi communitys formed that where all age encompasing and promoted the ideas of respect and humility from a young age that the art from would grow much faster, especially as children have so much time to practise.

i think it would also be especially good for children who are lacking in social skills as by practising alot they will become good and be able to share their skills with other children hence building friendship networks

I think it would eventually result in a wonderful fire community once the kids where old enough to safely spin fire. i personally love the idea of all the spinning arts becoming mainstream in a structured safe environment and really dont understand what ppl have against it


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:I would hate people being forced to learn it..

that would be rubbish...

rolleyes


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Facelessjoker
enthusiast
Location: Exeter
Member Since: 20th Sep 2004
Total posts: 249
Posted:^ditto.
purely coz i hated school and being forced to learn topics i hated.
Learning in school tends to have a negative light seeing as alot of kids would rather being doing something else.


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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:I have no idea how i feel on this matter, there are currently 15,552 members on HoP and in my experience about a fifth of fire spinners in the world are on HoP maybe less but just saying a fifth means there are at least 77,760 spinners in the world, thats a fair few but over twice as many died in the Tsunami, imagine if in the space of a few hours the whole spinning community got wiped out, makes you think, sorry i know this is offtopic

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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The Real Fryed Fish
God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1489
Posted:and now for a more upbeat thought wink

i think the growing popularity in the fire arts is a good thing, think about how many people you have become frineds with jsut becasue of the fire..........if you are going somewere and a fire artist lives in or around that area, chances are you have a place to stay, now granted with it becoming more popular there will be problems, like the afore mentioned twits that will not take safty into consideration, but its our responsibility as fire performers to make sure that happens in only rare casses

(that was still a good point pyro)


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:tis true - I love my poi and fire friends, and looking forward to assimilating many more in the future!

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:Yeh but there are some of the fore mentioned 'twits' that we just pat on the head and say ok, we'll let you off this time, Fryed Fish is such an exception wink

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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The Real Fryed Fish
God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1489
Posted:im an exception......YEA biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

you all are just jellous that i can trace my hand and not go out side the line so there


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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dromepixie
dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 1463
Posted:Written by: ben-ja-men

i hope that poi extends into schools as i think it would be great for kids for getting better hand eye coordination



well I reckon it should be offered but not obligatory...

hugs
d biggrin


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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duballstar
duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 2216
Posted:ditto the pixie... if only i could have juggled/spun at school. i've taught some of my little cousins stuff an they love it... biggrin

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Nucleopoi
Nucleopoi

chemical attraction
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
Member Since: 6th Nov 2004
Total posts: 1097
Posted:i would love poi/jugglng to be more recognised.it is just as hard as all these disciplines in the olympics.in the future an arts/juggling olympics could be introduced to the world,you never know.the problem is that it dusnt appeal to such a wide audience as the olympics/world cup etc.the thiong is to get a wider appeal for it and away you go!!! lolsign

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:You know, for at least the last 3 years or so that I've been on this site people have been talking about how poi is becoming more and more mainstream.

But, you know, not really that I've noticed. And I've been spinning for quite a while now by poi standards.

And is "mainstream" really a bad thing? Juggling and fire breathing are pretty "mainstream" and yet they're still pretty cool, right?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Nucleopoi
Nucleopoi

chemical attraction
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
Member Since: 6th Nov 2004
Total posts: 1097
Posted:i think they are cool,thats why i do them.it just dusnt appeal to people.such as the other day my friend was playing with devilsticks and a 'chav' replied: why do you play with sticks when you can play football.see what i mean.its the people that have that attitude to juggling that we need to change for a start. bloody chav's. lolsign

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JauntyJames
JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2004
Total posts: 3533
Posted:it would be awesome if poi was mainstream, but i'd still be nostagic for the days when people ask me what i'm on about. i get a kick of explaining it to people and feeling superior

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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Bretch
Bretch

enthusiast
Location: Cork, Ireland at present
Member Since: 19th Nov 2004
Total posts: 247
Posted:I don't have a problem with it going mainstream, as all the poi'ers/juggles/staff etc etc i've met are all really nice, willing to teach you and generally we get along fine and dandy.

What I don't want to happen is a craze, like a few years ago, the yoyo came back and every kid had one and it was ... cool .... obviously not at the chav age as it'll always be crap to them. But if a craze does take up, it will be just the same as every other craze, which is basically a company does what ever it can to get kids to buy their stuff, prices will go up, quality will go down and as with any craze, it will pretty much revert to what we have today, with a few more kids who will be excellent in time to come, which will be cool. so to sum up, its the commercialism that worries me.

If the craze ment that 1000's of kids watch a kids programme which showed how to make your own poi, and then 1000's started that way, that'd be excellent... oh man, my kids are gonna hate me... ubblol


I used to be indecisive, but I'm not so sure now.....

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Mags The Jedi
Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK
Member Since: 30th May 2004
Total posts: 2020
Posted:I used to think about this. Like Vanize says, it's an old topic, but one that's worth bringing up again occasionally, just to see how poiple think the land lies.

To be perfectly honest, it's not gonna be too bad. A lot of people are taking up poi, but an almost equally large number give up again fairly soon afterwards.

And so what if there are more spinners/twirlers/whatever out there? Surely that just means more people being innovative, coming up with new ideas and generally spreading the love.

Am I the only person who thinks a world of poi-spinners would be a happier place?

[Fade In: The Oval Office. George W Bush is trying to learn the backwards 5 beat

Enter Colin Powell & Condoleeza Rice

CP>> Hello Mr President

CR>> Hello Mr President

GWB>> Howdy pards, how's it going today?

CP & CR> Bad. We need your signature on an executive order to attack Iran.

GWB>> Sorry guys, I just dont have time. I need to nail this, then start working on airwraps.

[Fade Out]

See? ubblol devil


"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:ubblol ubblol

With Louis Armstrong's 'What a Wonderful World' being piped through the White House PA.

hug


Getting to the other side smile

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Mags The Jedi
Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK
Member Since: 30th May 2004
Total posts: 2020
Posted:Yep. Something like that. biggrin

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:ubblol ubblol

To be honest, i like poi how it is now, with still only a few people who do it (few as in compared to the population of the world) I think its great that we can do soemthing that so many people cant or have even heard of


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Rovo
Rovo

(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Since: 30th Jul 2003
Total posts: 544
Posted:I personally don't want poi to become mainstream. Hopefully if it does it will just be a craze like Bretch said. If alot of people start spinning it will lose some of the novelty which does appeal to me. It irks me also when people do things just cause its the new in thing or to be cool. Sure some people would end up loving it and become life long poi people. On the other hand there would be alot of idiots learning to spin who don't respect what we do especially when it comes to spinning fire. You know there is a huge appeal to spinning fire and alot of people wouldn't wait till they had gained enough experience and would start spinning fire befoire they were ready. Now if some jerk who knows 5 moves tries making his own fire poi and whilst spinning one breaks and flies off and burns someones house down it would have reprocussions for all of us.

I don't think poi should be competetive either. I feel its more of an art and should be used to entertain and for your own personal growth. Spinning poi just to beat people in comptetion doesn't sound right to me.

Poi represents something not as tainted as most of the things in this world to me. It seems more down to earth. There is no showy commerecialism and people seem to want to share and help others learn. These qualities are refreshing in a world where stepping on your friends just to get ahead is as natural as sleeping at night. Where everything has to be bigger better faster and stronger and the weak are forgotten. With sports and other competetive things this isn't the case.

I like to think poi finds people, people don't find poi. smile


Peace, Love, Circles

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ImmortalAngel
Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 19th Jan 2004
Total posts: 578
Posted:I am not such a big fan of mainstream things just because of the crowd it attracts. I don't know how the situation is in the rest of the world, but where I live (Toronto, Ontario, Canada), at least 90% of the population flocks to what ever the newest fad is, and alot is lost if the fad happened to have a deeply routed cultural origin. It happened with Yo-yo's as they went huge again not to long ago. We had a recent outbreak of Devil Sticks a few years ago...Now it's rap and gangsters.
I guess I'd rather have quality over quantity in the people who do poi. The ones who do seem to do it (for the most part, because as was said, there will always be yahoos) try to learn the background behind it, and appreciate it's routes and do their part in blazing it's future.
I guess that's why some people do have their opinions about not teaching just anyone poi, and trying to keep it a selective art. Personally, I'll gladly introduce anyone who asks. If it really strikes them they'll go home and be on HoP in a matter of days wink


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Mags The Jedi
Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK
Member Since: 30th May 2004
Total posts: 2020
Posted:I'll teach anyone who asks. And a few who don't.

smile


"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Well it looks like the U.K. has gotten things sorted when it comes to community, wish the same would happen over here. I don't know why, but the tiny spinning community that we do have is fragmented, and in my humble opinion for stupid reasons. It seems that we have alot of big egos, flakes, cliques, and a general who cares attitude when it comes to establishing any sort of community. Hey, I've even run into gender bias.

Personally I'll teach anybody who wants to learn, all I ask is that they practice, you know, put in the time, but not too many are willing to do this which is why I don't think poi will ever go "mainstream" ....too much work. I ran into more than a few people in Thailand who thought fire spinning would be a cool thing to do, they bought themselves a set of wicks, maybe had somebody show them a few "moves" ...lit up and scared themselves,,and ended up giving their wicks away,,,to me.

I find it just this side of impossible to find anyone to teach me, or it's horrifically expensive,, but that's the commercial aspect of it,,,, such is life


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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Location: amsterdam
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2003
Total posts: 593
Posted:Written by: PyroWill

there are currently 15,552 members on HoP and in my experience about a fifth of fire spinners in the world are on HoP maybe less but just saying a fifth means there are at least 77,760 spinners in the world,



in my experience waaaaay less...
almost none of the spanish speaking poi-people I met, had ever heard of HoP.
and about 1 out of 20 of the rest (some of them amazing spinners) have ever been on HoP, which doesn't even mean they regestered.


meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

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thor
thor

Flaming Lesbian
Location: Portland, Oregon
Member Since: 19th Feb 2004
Total posts: 181
Posted:i'm kind of worried about all these posts being `some kid who knows 5 moves decides to spin fire and ruins it for the rest of us` and `i don't want it to be bigger than it is or it'll lose it's charm`

first, when i started fire, i'm not sure if i even knew 5 moves, but i do remember i didn't mess up any of the few moves i knew. it's not about number to determine when you're ready, it's about confidence. i've known people break overbuilt dog chain poi before in the middle of a fire show (cough*cody*cough) who were very experienced. we always risk burning down someone's home, so don't act like some dumb kid is the only one risking bringing bad publicity to the community.

on the other topic, we don't have perspective on how big poi should get. we're in it, we've been in it, most of us apparently consider ourselves vets ;]... now before i spun poi, or ate fire, or did any of the other stupid things i do now, i thought they were cool and immensely impressive. we lose that perspective when we start. we start analyzing HOW things are done and lose our amazement at the simple fact that they WERE done. it's easy to confuse our own overanalyzing nature with a sense that it's being overdone or being turned into a fad.

show live fire poi to anybody off the street and they'll still leave with a grin on their faces.


Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.

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Ifrit
Ifrit

The GF of HoP
Location: Somerset, England
Member Since: 17th Aug 2004
Total posts: 492
Posted:Does anyone else here see a resemblance to that novel turned film the beach? It seems that if we were to learn from this coronary tale then it would seem foolish to try and keep poi selective as someone would end up getting shot and then we would all lose out.

Also i agree with the thing about ppl not being able to put the effort in which will most likely make any sort of craze short lived and lame (God what poor vocab) .

*Wow isnt it amazing that even in that there were no new points of view s just repeats. Maybe i should post it. Nope to late.


fire leads to creation

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Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:I don't think there's too much worry about poi becoming 'mainstream' as it does take alot of time & practice to get some decent skills up (Unless your a really good teacher/student/keen ;-) ) Almost everyone I do a fire show infront of says..."WOW! that was great! I want to learn! " Then about an hour later still thinks it's great, so I offer to show them a few things sometime, which rarely happens cause they loose interest after the night is over. Those that do follow up & give it a go, many don't realise how hard it is to learn & then don't practice at all & have quit a month later. But now & then you get one person who stays... yay!

And those people are always nice, fun people cause you wouldn't spend your time to teach anyone else anyway!
The only way I can see poi becoming 'mainstream' is if it becomes commercialised/a 'fad' as has been discussed earlier.

Written by: PyroWill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there are currently 15,552 members on HoP and in my experience about a fifth of fire spinners in the world are on HoP maybe less but just saying a fifth means there are at least 77,760 spinners in the world,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just also remember that MANY many of these people are ones who created an account at some time, played around for awhile, then stopped playing with poi. many of those members may not have picked up poi in years...

That's my two cents. ubbrollsmile ubbrollsmile ubbrollsmile


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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devkev
devkev

discoverer of phat and poigling
Location: North London.. England
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 292
Posted:this is a great thred... bounce

I have been playing for 14 years in the juggling world and i have seen the yoyoy craze, the astro jacks, the club juggling etc all go through highs and lows... they are all still there and some people are great at it... these people inspire more people to experience it... i cant fault this..

I really think the uk has a great community feel with poi, there is no competition here in the juggling world and this takes away the need to hide your tricks... I love teaching and sharing what i know and it keeps me on my toes to keep improving.. of course there are some egos but the places i play they get absorbed and wither away...

rovo above summed it up beautifully: clap

"I feel its more of an art and should be used to entertain and for your own personal growth. """

i would love to see a cross between riverdance and stomp on stage with poi... anyone want to help me produce it????

keep playing, sharing and inspiring





grouphug biggrin


its all about the fun fun fun fun and more fun...

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ImmortalAngel
Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 19th Jan 2004
Total posts: 578
Posted:Devkev, have you been looking at the "Bola as a rythmic insturment" article again?
wink It seems like a good idea, if you could get the co-ordination. You'd have to get a company crazy enough to support your idea to just get a grant to try it :P
Cirque Du Soliel is always good for things like that ^.^'


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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Page: 123

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