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MikeIconGOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA


Posted:
Ive been working to categorize all types of flowers in an attempt to find more. I believe Ive finally finished and have discovered many new ones (to me) along the way. Decided to share what Ive got in an attempt to both educate those who may not be aware of some of them as well as get info on any I may be missing. Heres the breakdown...

There are 4 categories of flowers:
-Basic flowers
-Counter flowers
-Goofy flowers
-Half flowers

Basic flowers are the simplest and usually the first ones people learn. They're just your average flower where the poi and arms are both rotating in the same directional pattern (ie, poi are spinning forward chase/arms are spinning forward chase; and poi are spinning forward butterfly/arms are spinning forward butterfly)

Counter flowers are what Ive been calling anti-spin flowers before all the anti-spin jargon started. You can call them what you want, but in this case, they're counter flowers smile They're the ones where your arms rotate opposite (or counter) the direction your poi are spinning (ie your poi are rotating forward chase/your arms are rotating reverse chase; and your poi are rotating forward butterfly while your arms are rotating reverse butterfly)

Goofy is the term Ive come up with to describe flowers where your arms are doing the wrong directional pattern for the way the poi are spinning (ie your poi are doing butterfly but your arms are rotating chase, and vice verce). This forces one poi to always be doing counter spin while the other always does normal.

Half flowers are where your arms only complete half a rotation before going back the way they came forcing the poi to do normal spin one way, then counter spin on the way back.

All of these can be done as a chase or as a butterfly, in split or same time. Its also great to be able to turn all of these 360 and some of them are actually easier that way.

Anyway, gimme some feedback, especially if you have some flower ideas I havent yet thought of.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Noooo... it's just a spirograph equation.

If it takes one second for your poi to spin around and you take 4 deconds to rotate your arms all the way, you'll get a 4 petaled flower.

If you're spinning at one rep per second and your arms take a minute to go around, you'll get a 60 petaled flower.

If you're spinning at one rep per second and your arms take a second to go around... then you've made a large circle. smile

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Gav486SILVER Member
You have 23 seconds to comply!
122 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
Umm... NYC; I think you're missing the point of what I'm getting at.



You'not just got one spirograph; you've got two. In my last example... heck, I'll just repeat what I said earlier with a fwe minor mods:



Your right poi could make circles at 12, 4, and 8, and if your arms were 180 degrees apart, your left arm could make circles at 6, 10 and 2, giving you six petals instead of three; each poi doing three petals, but appearing as six if you overlaid the two patterns... which they would be, providing your arms are both still attached to your body... smile

You cannot trust this boy! His mind has been corrupted by colours, sounds and shapes.


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: Gav486


So... are your small circles desynchronised (like Kael) or are you spinning with your arms 120 degrees apart? Or are you getting six petals ( with the petals made by one poi landing in between the ones made by the other, which might actually be a neat move in its own right)? wink




There are easy ways to get your poi to make 3 circles antispin and still have them synched. If you just spin parallel you can make any number of petals you want.

You're using the overlay of the location of the small and larger circles on a physical background.

I'm using the difference in the timing of the smaller and larger circles.

It's the same thing.

If you spin your poi at 3 times the speed you spin your arm, then you get three circles. At, let's say 12, 4, and 8. If you spin antispin you just loose one small circle for every large circle you make. You can have antispin flowers with 48 petals if you wanted to and still have your arms at 180 degrees.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
... wait what?

I think I get what you're getting at Gav and I agree but I didn't understand how/why you were suggesting that there was no way that Garthy's arms could be at 180 degrees.

Now I'm all confused.

I'll reneg all I said on the topic if someone tells me what we're talking about. confused

This is what I get for not drinking enough alcohol during the weekends.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
Gav is right - if you do 3 circles with your arms apart you'll end up with circles at

L 12 R 6
L 4 R 10
L 8 R 2

as you go round - 6 petals. To get just 3 petals you'd need to have your arms 120 degrees apart to get

L 12 R 4
L 4 R 8
L 8 R 12

"Moo," said the happy cow.


Gav486SILVER Member
You have 23 seconds to comply!
122 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
S'ok, NYC smile

Kael alreay explained how he did flowers with odd numbered petals; by desychronising the inward swings. I'd already alluded to that in my previous post:

Written by: Gav486


Unless, of course your poi rotations aren't synchronised...

Yeah... Kael; that point where the poi are pointing towards you... is it happening at the same time for both poi or not?





And I even thanked him for clarifying that.

I was just asking Garthy if he did his three petal flowers the same way. I never actually said that he couldn't possibly have his arms 180 degrees apart; Kael had already put paid to that idea.

And thanx Spiralx! Glad someone knows what I'm on about.. *phew*

You cannot trust this boy! His mind has been corrupted by colours, sounds and shapes.


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Thanks Kael,,,sometimes I just need a little assurance that antispin does indeed look different to an observer, rather than just being a more difficult way of creating a pattern that I already do.

Now to work on this rotating your arms at different rates thing....

garthySILVER Member
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England


Posted:
Hmm...

Sorry. I ment 3 petals per arm! so 6 in all!

Sorry for the confusion!

I've knocked up a little Script yesterday that Draws Flowers given various parameters.

I've put some photos up in my gallery...... The lines are the arms and poi. I'll clean it up a bit and add an interface to if when I'm back from falmouth so you can vary stuff and see what it looks like! biggrin

At the moment you have to edit code.

Of course these could be wrong as my maths is shaky! redface

"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx


shen shuiSILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand


Posted:
Written by: spiralx


Gav is right - if you do 3 circles with your arms apart you'll end up with circles at

L 12 R 6
L 4 R 10
L 8 R 2

as you go round - 6 petals. To get just 3 petals you'd need to have your arms 120 degrees apart to get

L 12 R 4
L 4 R 8
L 8 R 12




hug
this explains it well.
hug
yay
hug

those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.


garthySILVER Member
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England


Posted:
**Damn it Garthy stop talking about flowers*** biggrin



An animated classic flower with lock outs.



https://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3528&nocache=1



To stir things up a bit........



The antispin flower in KaelGotRice picture doesn't have lockouts? Discuss! wink



I'll post an animated picture of a antispin flower with and without lockouts and see what you think?



[EDIT:]

here she is

https://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=1

EDITED_BY: garthy (1113167792)

"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx


KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angel's Landing, USA


Posted:
So that's antispin without lockouts, what about with? wink

This is really a very helpful visualization, so thank you for it. biggrin

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Those graphics are amazing,,I always wondered what lockouts were, Thanks beerchug

MikeIconGOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA


Posted:
Those lockouts are sorta like the linear isolations I posted about... Though, Id like to see someone who can actually pull that anti-spin flower with lockouts off... Seems like its one of those things thats possible, but not likely.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
*agrees with icon*

that antispin flower with lockout has lots of hardcore isolation needed in between the lockouts.

i think lockouts just 'feel' like lockouts but aren't really ever there.

if you see what i mean.

umm


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


ben_in_a_spinBRONZE Member
member
32 posts
Location: london / cambridge, United Kingdom


Posted:
when you're doing antispin flowers, the poi don't pull on your arms in the normal, comfortable way (centripetal/fugal/whatever) so they feel a bit weird. (with the aid of a spirograph i have sussed why this is wink)

but is it easier or harder, therefore, to do four or six beat antispin flowers? with four, they seem to move a bit fast for my liking...

please help keep the world clean - others may wish to use it


KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angel's Landing, USA


Posted:
errrr... I don't know about you guys but when I started learning flowers I had lockouts or pauses, but I don't anymore now that I've smoothed them up. Therefore...

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />


arashiPooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx


Posted:
WOW that's some cool stuff. garthy's my hero for this week. the things we can do with an army of nerds...



i can do the anti-lockouts one but getting the straight line/ends of the semicircles joint to be all sharp like that is a biotch. gimmie a few months maybe wink



naaaah i like girls too much

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


_khan_SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA


Posted:
hmmm....i'm confused. i thought that by definition, flowers required lockouts. what are you doing if you're doing them without lockouts???

taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco


KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angel's Landing, USA


Posted:
Timing them?



ubblol



The poi heads are going a certain speed and your arms and poi need to be in a certain place at a certain time. The issue with antispin is getting used to how gravity throws your spin out and using your wrists to account for that, while defying physics naturally. wink



Flowers without lockouts look so much cleaner IMO.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />


garthySILVER Member
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England


Posted:
OK play with this biggrin

Flower drawing program......

https://cranbrookroad.homeip.net/pyflower.zip

Hit reset button after playing with parameters of poi..

Lockouts are broken. I need to change the way I spin the poi and arms. They work with divisable numbers. for poi and arms. They only work at 90 degrees to!

TODO:

* Saving Animated gifs. (I did have this working but it needs improving
* Save flower parameters
* Sort out lockouts. This involves changing the way I calc stuff.
* Ideas anyone?

If it doesn't work run from a command prompt and PM me the output.....

"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx


garthySILVER Member
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England


Posted:
Things to try...
(Remember to hit reset after settnig this up)

Both arms +10
Both poi -5
Lockouts enabled

Both arms +3
Both poi -9
Lockouts enabled


Red arm 3
Red poi 3
Blue Arm 3
Bue poi -5
Lockout disabled

Red arm 3
Red poi 3
Blue Arm 3
Bue poi -5
Lockout enabled

Then go off and try to spin these! biggrin

"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx


KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angel's Landing, USA


Posted:

Non-Https Image Link

Practical application of flowers and turns. biggrin

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
This thread is unacceptably helpful.

How will you guys ever maintain a level of elitism if you keep showing guys like me how to do things.

wink

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


garthySILVER Member
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England


Posted:
Written by: NYC


This thread is unacceptably helpful.

How will you guys ever maintain a level of elitism if you keep showing guys like me how to do things.

wink




Maybe we should add more words like crypto fascist, Anti - deconstructism - progression.

I meen where are the cryptic threads I had to learn off like the classic..
[Old link] ubblol ubbloco confused biggrin

"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx


fluffy napalm fairyCarpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land


Posted:
garthy you are a genius and I can't unjumble a word you are saying any more. I thought i understood..............

oh how wrong I was. how utterly wrong. Ah well.

ubbrollsmile

*skips off to practice a 3 beat weave.........*

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


BirdGOLD Member
now available in "advanced"
6,086 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom


Posted:
So, on a simple level.....

Spin your poi, then wave your arms around like a loon and eventually you'll come across a flower variation of some sort, is that how it works, or do I need to rethink my plan?? wink

My state of mind is not yours to define!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."


SkulduggeryGOLD Member
Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
8,428 posts
Location: Wales


Posted:
I've downloaded that and ended up with a zip file with a whole bunch of stuff I don't know what to do with......... and for some reason my unzipping thing is all odd.......... I swear this computer has gremlins and faeries in it!

Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!


munkypunksGOLD Member
enthusiast, but not enthusiastic
367 posts
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA


Posted:
Written by: Bird


So, on a simple level.....

Spin your poi, then wave your arms around like a loon and eventually you'll come across a flower variation of some sort, is that how it works, or do I need to rethink my plan?? wink




That's been my plan. I have the loon part down pretty well. The problem is the eventually part starts looking like 100 monkeys with 100 typewriters....trying to spin poi..... ubbloco

You can't fall off the floor, but sometimes you need a chair to reach the cookie jar.


garthySILVER Member
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England


Posted:
Written by: Bird


So, on a simple level.....

Spin your poi, then wave your arms around like a loon and eventually you'll come across a flower variation of some sort, is that how it works, or do I need to rethink my plan?? wink




Yeap. That's about it. The secret is not hitting yourself and looking like you know what you're doing. wink

And it;s so much fun!!! biggrin bounce

"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx


garthySILVER Member
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England


Posted:
Written by: Skulduggery


I've downloaded that and ended up with a zip file with a whole bunch of stuff I don't know what to do with......... and for some reason my unzipping thing is all odd.......... I swear this computer has gremlins and faeries in it!




Hmmm.. Betterer instrutions would have been good I supose.

Unzip it to a directory and run the exe called flowerpoi.exe

"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx


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