Forums > Social Chat > What is the UK?
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
First of, let me say that my very clever Molly explained this to me very well. Unfortunately, I've found no supporting information and quite a bit of conflicting information. Nobody in my school understands either.
Here's what I know:
England + Scotland + Wales = Great Britain
Great Britain + Northern Ireland = "The United Kindom"
I also know that there are some very small islands off of the coast that are exceptions to the above.
What I don't understand, and keep getting conflicting information about, is which of the above are COUNTRIES.
Is the phrase "Scotland is a country within the country of Great Britain, which is within the country of the United Kingdom." correct? Cuz that just sounds weird.
[Note, it's just the word 'country' I'm having issues with, not the geography.]
So I guess to make it simple...
Question 1:
Is "Scotland" a country?
Question 2:
Is "Great Britain" a country?
Question 3:
Is "The United Kindom" a country?
I could throw a wrench into it all by bringing up the word "nation" but let's keep it simple.
I'd like the most technically correct answer. Everything I keep getting is "Well, you could say that..." and "It's almost like..." and "Most people would just say..." but there's got to be a 'real' answer and I can't find it anywhere.
Thanks!
UK's biggest fan,
NYC
First of, let me say that my very clever Molly explained this to me very well. Unfortunately, I've found no supporting information and quite a bit of conflicting information. Nobody in my school understands either.
Here's what I know:
England + Scotland + Wales = Great Britain
Great Britain + Northern Ireland = "The United Kindom"
I also know that there are some very small islands off of the coast that are exceptions to the above.
What I don't understand, and keep getting conflicting information about, is which of the above are COUNTRIES.
Is the phrase "Scotland is a country within the country of Great Britain, which is within the country of the United Kingdom." correct? Cuz that just sounds weird.
[Note, it's just the word 'country' I'm having issues with, not the geography.]
So I guess to make it simple...
Question 1:
Is "Scotland" a country?
Question 2:
Is "Great Britain" a country?
Question 3:
Is "The United Kindom" a country?
I could throw a wrench into it all by bringing up the word "nation" but let's keep it simple.
I'd like the most technically correct answer. Everything I keep getting is "Well, you could say that..." and "It's almost like..." and "Most people would just say..." but there's got to be a 'real' answer and I can't find it anywhere.
Thanks!
UK's biggest fan,
NYC
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Thanks FP, I was wiping the sweat from my brow as I typed that one.. I know how serious an issue it is to those concerned!
Thanks FP, I was wiping the sweat from my brow as I typed that one.. I know how serious an issue it is to those concerned!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
Scotland? A country? Nah, it's a county up norf somewhere
Written by:
Is "Scotland" a country?
Scotland? A country? Nah, it's a county up norf somewhere
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I think the real answer is this:
"NYC, the term 'country' is outdated and vague. Even the wikipedia won't touch it because the proper term in today's global political climate is 'sovereign state'."
So:
#1: Scotland is a country because of it's history of independance.
#2: Northern Ireland is not a country.
#3: Great Britain is not a country.
#4: The UK is not a country by historical terms but is a country by the current governing system.
But:
#1: Scotland was a sovereign state at one point in history.
#2: Northern Ireland was never a sovereign state.
#3: Great Britain was a sovereign state until it added Northern Ireland.
#4: The "United Kindom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland" is the only current sovereign state.
I think.
I gotta figure this out before I retire to the British suburbs. Or would that be the United Kindomish suburbs?
I think the real answer is this:
"NYC, the term 'country' is outdated and vague. Even the wikipedia won't touch it because the proper term in today's global political climate is 'sovereign state'."
So:
#1: Scotland is a country because of it's history of independance.
#2: Northern Ireland is not a country.
#3: Great Britain is not a country.
#4: The UK is not a country by historical terms but is a country by the current governing system.
But:
#1: Scotland was a sovereign state at one point in history.
#2: Northern Ireland was never a sovereign state.
#3: Great Britain was a sovereign state until it added Northern Ireland.
#4: The "United Kindom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland" is the only current sovereign state.
I think.
I gotta figure this out before I retire to the British suburbs. Or would that be the United Kindomish suburbs?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Again, you really really have to be careful with that. Many people would (seriously) disagree with you there. There is no obvious right answer to it.
Written by: NYC
#2: Northern Ireland is not a country.
Again, you really really have to be careful with that. Many people would (seriously) disagree with you there. There is no obvious right answer to it.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Lol.
Well, at the minute we're not a country - we're back as part of the UK.
I think we might have been a country for a few months a couple of years ago, but then our politicians fcuked up again.
And in the wake of the Northern Bank heist and possible culprits, god knows when we're going to be able to govern ourselves again.
Can't be trusted
Lol.
Well, at the minute we're not a country - we're back as part of the UK.
I think we might have been a country for a few months a couple of years ago, but then our politicians fcuked up again.
And in the wake of the Northern Bank heist and possible culprits, god knows when we're going to be able to govern ourselves again.
Can't be trusted
Getting to the other side 
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
I was thinking that the UK is composed of several countries, including Northern Ireland.
Man this is too confusing!
I was thinking that the UK is composed of several countries, including Northern Ireland.
Man this is too confusing!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
NYC I think you may need to research Devolution (of Scotland and Wales) in the uk too as this has taken on a more drastic form of seperating the uk into formal and recognised individual countries.
And I'm not surprised you don't get it, we know you Americans have trouble dealing with anything involving more than around 230 years of historical heritage
NYC I think you may need to research Devolution (of Scotland and Wales) in the uk too as this has taken on a more drastic form of seperating the uk into formal and recognised individual countries.
And I'm not surprised you don't get it, we know you Americans have trouble dealing with anything involving more than around 230 years of historical heritage
Let's relight this forum 
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
nearly-all-gone
nearly got it but a little confused.... Northern Ireland isn't a country in it's own right. That's a fact. The debate is whether it 'belongs' (used very loosely) to Britain or to Ireland.
But I agree with FP about it being it's own country.
nearly-all-gone
nearly got it but a little confused.... Northern Ireland isn't a country in it's own right. That's a fact. The debate is whether it 'belongs' (used very loosely) to Britain or to Ireland.
But I agree with FP about it being it's own country.
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Ah, fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up
I don't think a career in internation politics is beckoning me, somehow!
Ah, fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up
I don't think a career in internation politics is beckoning me, somehow! What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Not answering th emain question, NYC, but clarifying one of the definitions, (according toi your own quote of Wikipedia)
Therefore, if wikipedia is correct, the name for the land mass that encompasses all of these areas is Great Britain.
So I would use Great Britain as a completely non-political name and use it from a purely physical geographogical angle (cool word huh?).
From what others have said, that leaves the United Kingdom as the Royal Family's area of rule (which does not necessarily include Commonwealth nations) within that geogrphical area. Oh and inculding the little islands and stuff too.
So, purely from what has been posted in this topic.
Great Britain = The land mass itself, which could be descibed as a largeish island.
UK = The kingdom of the British Royal Family, within the above landmass.
If you used these definitions, then you have simplified the whole issue, and now rely on peoples definition of "kingdom" when applied to this area.
Trying to then define the areas such as Ireland and Wales which are obviously contested by a number of different people will just confuse the issue, so I would use a vague description as above which is more dependant on who you talk to, without as much chance of offending peoples...
WHEW! Now I'm back to making some balloons...
Not answering th emain question, NYC, but clarifying one of the definitions, (according toi your own quote of Wikipedia)
Written by:
the three nations on the island of Great Britain
Therefore, if wikipedia is correct, the name for the land mass that encompasses all of these areas is Great Britain.
So I would use Great Britain as a completely non-political name and use it from a purely physical geographogical angle (cool word huh?).
From what others have said, that leaves the United Kingdom as the Royal Family's area of rule (which does not necessarily include Commonwealth nations) within that geogrphical area. Oh and inculding the little islands and stuff too.
So, purely from what has been posted in this topic.
Great Britain = The land mass itself, which could be descibed as a largeish island.
UK = The kingdom of the British Royal Family, within the above landmass.
If you used these definitions, then you have simplified the whole issue, and now rely on peoples definition of "kingdom" when applied to this area.
Trying to then define the areas such as Ireland and Wales which are obviously contested by a number of different people will just confuse the issue, so I would use a vague description as above which is more dependant on who you talk to, without as much chance of offending peoples...
WHEW! Now I'm back to making some balloons...
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
it's actually a teeny island
and would that be geographical? or geological? geographogical's only cool cos you just made it up
it's actually a teeny island
and would that be geographical? or geological?
geographogical's only cool cos you just made it up Geologists do it in the dirt................
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
it's the "phogical" that makes it. I think I'm going to use that more often. I'm gonna phoge it up from now on.
it's the "phogical" that makes it. I think I'm going to use that more often. I'm gonna phoge it up from now on.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
SILVER Member
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Right. The correct name for the UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the Commonwealth.
Great Britain is the landmass of England, Scotland and Wales.
The Commonwealth is the remnant of The British Empire, which at some point in most of your history was in charge of your sovereign state. (I might add there, we probably stole it by force of arms, which as a British citizen, I apologise for)
The Commonwealth is a little like NATO, only not with so many powerful members, in that it was created to maintain a diplomatic membership of the previous Empire nations (Canada, Australia et al) so as to maintain economic and mutual defence treaties.
I would like to add that, as (i think) the only state to forcibly detach themselves from the British Empire, the USA is not part of the Commonwealth, but since we maintain the finest standing army in the world (in terms of tactical flexibility and training) the USA still sees us as a major friend.
Scotland, and Wales are i believe known as principalities, since they have a measure of devolved power from central government, but are still answerable to it. Northern Ireland does not have a devolved parliament, cos theyre still fighting over it.
Australia is a sovereign state in itself, as it is not answerable to central government and the Queen, but is part of the Commonwealth, and stll recognises the Queen as Head of State.
Have I missed anything?
Right. The correct name for the UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the Commonwealth.
Great Britain is the landmass of England, Scotland and Wales.
The Commonwealth is the remnant of The British Empire, which at some point in most of your history was in charge of your sovereign state. (I might add there, we probably stole it by force of arms, which as a British citizen, I apologise for)
The Commonwealth is a little like NATO, only not with so many powerful members, in that it was created to maintain a diplomatic membership of the previous Empire nations (Canada, Australia et al) so as to maintain economic and mutual defence treaties.
I would like to add that, as (i think) the only state to forcibly detach themselves from the British Empire, the USA is not part of the Commonwealth, but since we maintain the finest standing army in the world (in terms of tactical flexibility and training) the USA still sees us as a major friend.
Scotland, and Wales are i believe known as principalities, since they have a measure of devolved power from central government, but are still answerable to it. Northern Ireland does not have a devolved parliament, cos theyre still fighting over it.
Australia is a sovereign state in itself, as it is not answerable to central government and the Queen, but is part of the Commonwealth, and stll recognises the Queen as Head of State.
Have I missed anything?
ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
"Northern Ireland does not have a devolved parliament, cos theyre still fighting over it. "
Yeush, so embarrassing.
"Northern Ireland does not have a devolved parliament, cos theyre still fighting over it. "
Yeush, so embarrassing.
Getting to the other side
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I said that. Scroll up.
I was referring in the post you were quoting to the time before Northern Ireland was annexed. Wasn't there a time when Scotland, England and Wales were joined with no Northern Ireland?
But I agree. Great Britian is a land mass. I even said it first.
Written by: Charles
So I would use Great Britain as a completely non-political name and use it from a purely physical geographogical angle (cool word huh?).
Great Britain = The land mass itself, which could be descibed as a largeish island.
I said that. Scroll up.
I was referring in the post you were quoting to the time before Northern Ireland was annexed. Wasn't there a time when Scotland, England and Wales were joined with no Northern Ireland?
But I agree. Great Britian is a land mass. I even said it first.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
I think it's easier to solve this in terms of rugby, scotland, england, ireland and wales all have seperate rugby teams for the world cup, therefore they are seperate nations.
Occasionally they join up to become 'the lions'. This is like GB. (Or transformers) Unfortunately, scotland, ireland and wales and england are not 'countries in disguise' but in fact are countries. That just happen to have the secret power to transform into a sovereign state when they have to fight off a bigger robot, or er, country.
I think it's easier to solve this in terms of rugby, scotland, england, ireland and wales all have seperate rugby teams for the world cup, therefore they are seperate nations.
Occasionally they join up to become 'the lions'. This is like GB. (Or transformers) Unfortunately, scotland, ireland and wales and england are not 'countries in disguise' but in fact are countries. That just happen to have the secret power to transform into a sovereign state when they have to fight off a bigger robot, or er, country.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Pooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
Posted:
Oh meg, you always have the best analogies
But will NYC know about transformers or are you further muddying these already murky waters?
Oh meg, you always have the best analogies
But will NYC know about transformers or are you further muddying these already murky waters?
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
Umm, about that. the governer general, who is the queen's representative, has a pretty active role in our politics. or so they say.
Written by:
Here's where the Commonwealth comes in. It is one "State" (in the sense used in "Head of State"), but multiple governments. The Queen is Head of State in Canada and Australia, but has no power over their governments, since they're independent COUNTRIES; nor does the British Parliament have any voice in their affairs
Umm, about that. the governer general, who is the queen's representative, has a pretty active role in our politics. or so they say.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
enthusiast
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Posted:
Now, see, I did not know that. Then Australia (you're in Australia, right?) isn't really independent, is it?
Now, see, I did not know that. Then Australia (you're in Australia, right?) isn't really independent, is it?
"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Austrailia is legally totally independant. They just take advice from the UK.
Much the same way that the UK is a totally independant country but if George Bush gave them advice Tony Blair would...
Austrailia is legally totally independant. They just take advice from the UK.
Much the same way that the UK is a totally independant country but if George Bush gave them advice Tony Blair would...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
enthusiast
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Posted:
Hmm, NYC, I think your analogy is somewhat flawed...what threat or intimidation tactic does the UK have over Australia?
Hmm, NYC, I think your analogy is somewhat flawed...what threat or intimidation tactic does the UK have over Australia?
"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations
member
117 posts
Location: Norwich, UK
117 posts
Location: Norwich, UK
Posted:
Just a little to add, to help stir the discussion up, Isle of Man. Its status is kinda complicated. Although its between the Great Britain land mass and the island of Ireland its indipendant from everyone besides the Queen.
I think this info is right. Is anybody on the forums from Isle of Man? They might know.
Just a little to add, to help stir the discussion up, Isle of Man. Its status is kinda complicated. Although its between the Great Britain land mass and the island of Ireland its indipendant from everyone besides the Queen.
I think this info is right. Is anybody on the forums from Isle of Man? They might know.
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
I lost the thread of what was happening shortly after Simian joined in. Can someone please recap for the stupid me type people?
I lost the thread of what was happening shortly after Simian joined in. Can someone please recap for the stupid me type people?
Meh
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I knew I should have put this under "Discussion".
I knew I should have put this under "Discussion".
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
Well i was going to say that. But i'm trying to cut down on that sort of thing.
Didn't even bother pointing it out to the mods.
Seem to be getting slack in my old age.
Well i was going to say that. But i'm trying to cut down on that sort of thing.
Didn't even bother pointing it out to the mods.
Seem to be getting slack in my old age.
Meh
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
MiG - the Govenor General Major General Michael Jeffrey (sorry, I like typing that cos I find it an amusingly long title) has a very little role in our politics at all. Yes, he must give every law passed "royal assent" but he pretty much just stamps everything. while he has the power to not stamp stuff, he does it most of the time. he pretty much is a figure head, or so i learnt in legal studies.
MiG - the Govenor General Major General Michael Jeffrey (sorry, I like typing that cos I find it an amusingly long title) has a very little role in our politics at all. Yes, he must give every law passed "royal assent" but he pretty much just stamps everything. while he has the power to not stamp stuff, he does it most of the time. he pretty much is a figure head, or so i learnt in legal studies.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
enthusiast
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Posted:
6ho5t, I looked that up once for work (because Isle of Man, Isle of Mann, and Mannin were none of them in our Country table). It's a Crown Protectorate of the UK, and I think it has a certain limited autonomy, but it's considered part of the United Kingdom.
Anyone who knows more, please speak up. I'm chiefly concerned about the extinction of Manx Gaelic, which still had a few speakers last I looked.
6ho5t, I looked that up once for work (because Isle of Man, Isle of Mann, and Mannin were none of them in our Country table). It's a Crown Protectorate of the UK, and I think it has a certain limited autonomy, but it's considered part of the United Kingdom.
Anyone who knows more, please speak up. I'm chiefly concerned about the extinction of Manx Gaelic, which still had a few speakers last I looked.
"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations
Pooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
Posted:
OK, more confusion for you
Wales is Not a country, it is a Principality headed by our dear Charlie boy, the Prince of Wales you see?
Scotland is still a country.
Apparently this is to do with the fact that the English conquered Wales back in the day, whereas King James VI (I) - the Scots had had lots of James, the English none hence the silly title - united the two Kingdoms since he happened to be king of both.
I hope that is right or I'll be in trouble.
Northern Ireland is still a mystery.
The Isle of Man has a certain amount of autonomy in law making - silly things like having no speed limits on some roads and never needing an MOT.
The Lord of Man is Queenie, making it a Crown Dependancy and they have a Lieutenant Governor appointed by the queen and a Chief Minister elected by the people.
more info
learn something new etc. etc.
OK, more confusion for you
Wales is Not a country, it is a Principality headed by our dear Charlie boy, the Prince of Wales you see?
Scotland is still a country.
Apparently this is to do with the fact that the English conquered Wales back in the day, whereas King James VI (I) - the Scots had had lots of James, the English none hence the silly title - united the two Kingdoms since he happened to be king of both.
I hope that is right or I'll be in trouble.
Northern Ireland is still a mystery.
The Isle of Man has a certain amount of autonomy in law making - silly things like having no speed limits on some roads and never needing an MOT.
The Lord of Man is Queenie, making it a Crown Dependancy and they have a Lieutenant Governor appointed by the queen and a Chief Minister elected by the people.
more info
learn something new etc. etc.
enthusiast
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Posted:
Well, a principality or princedom can still be a country. The last true Prince of Wales - and the only actual Welshman recognized as such by an English monarch - was [url=https://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:yXCWloantZkJ:www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/llywelynapgruffudd+"Llywelyn+ap+Gruffudd"+1282&hl=en]Llywelyn ap Gruffudd[/url], who was killed in 1282.
OK, this looked OK yesterday. WTF? And I used the URL wizard thingie, too. What's going on here?
EDITED_BY: Xopher (aka Mr. Clean) (1105735835)
Well, a principality or princedom can still be a country. The last true Prince of Wales - and the only actual Welshman recognized as such by an English monarch - was [url=https://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:yXCWloantZkJ:www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/llywelynapgruffudd+"Llywelyn+ap+Gruffudd"+1282&hl=en]Llywelyn ap Gruffudd[/url], who was killed in 1282.
OK, this looked OK yesterday. WTF? And I used the URL wizard thingie, too. What's going on here?
EDITED_BY: Xopher (aka Mr. Clean) (1105735835)
"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations
GOLD Member
veteran
1,508 posts
Location: Out, United Kingdom
veteran
1,508 posts
Location: Out, United Kingdom
Posted:
Ireland is a country but only N.Ireland is included in the United Kingdom.
Ireland is a country but only N.Ireland is included in the United Kingdom.
AAARRRGGGHHH!!! My giant stick broke!!! In two!!! My stick broke in two!!! 
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