Page: 123
onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:It's 2005 and time for my annual thread recommending Allen Carrs book-

'Easy Way to Give up Smoking'

For anyone who's not had success with the usual methods.

It was early on in 2000 when I put out my final cigarette, after around 10 years of failed attempts. Which means I'm coming up to 5 years with no nicotine whatsoever.

So, for anyone who's on a New Years Resolution and attempting to quit using willpower, patches etc, the best of luck to you, and, if it doesn't work out, then don't fall into despair- check out Carrs excellent book.

It does seem unlikely that escaping nicotine addiction can be easy, and perhaps 'easy' isn't the best word to use; nevertheless, as someone who has managed it, I think I'm well placed to say that escaping does not have to be anywhere near the ordeal that people usually insist it will be.

I should say that I've known a lot of people walk away from addiction using Carrs method, however a lot of them become complacent and neglect to follow the simple, but strict, instructions in the book, and, six months later they end up having 'just one', which generally leads to them starting again.

In a way it's an advantage to have had a lot of failed quitting attempts under your belt, as then you can truly appreciate the value of achieving a state of mind where you are free from cigarettes, and thus less inclined to mess around with those very straightforward instructions.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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garthy
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

garthy

old hand
Location: Bristol, England

Total posts: 717
Posted:ditto

After being a smoker for 14 years I gave up using the book Pretty easily.

So what Dave said.
It works.

You just have to read the book. What have you got to lose? A few hours of you life reading a book that may not work. But if it does you'll probably gain alot more! ubbrollsmile


"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx

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Parafinfairy
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Parafinfairy

old hand
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 845
Posted:I have to agree too - my mum read it after 30 years of smoking 30+ a day and she's not had one for 3 years this year after reading the book and swears that she won't either!! smile

Slicing the Loaf as we speak.

I need it..... Trust me!

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Carobananas
GOLD Member since Nov 2003

Carobananas

april fool
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Total posts: 36
Posted:I read the book 6 years ago. I didn't finish it but stopped reading somewhere shortly before the end.
After that I smoked twice as much as before (1package of cigarettes a day on weekdays + 1 extra on weeekends).

Until about 3 month later, when I woke up one morning with this horrible I-feel-like-I've-eaten-out-of-an-ashtray taste in my mouth, and decided that I just wanted to get rid of that taste. I haven't smoked again since.

Although I didn't quit straight after reading the book, I know that I wouldn't have managed to quit without it. Once I quit I noticed that I didn't need smoking as well.
I quit a few weeks before my final exams, but I didn't need cigarettes to cope with the stress. I felt hardly any withdrawal symptoms. I lost about 2kg (4 pounds) in the weeks after I quit. I've never felt tempted to smoke a cigarette again.

So I can only agree with the others:
Go and read that book!
You've got nothing to loose, and everything to gain if it works!!


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Hubert_Cumberdale
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

Hubert_Cumberdale

[psylocibin fingerbobe].
Location: London, United Kingdom

Total posts: 479
Posted:Good luck to anyone who's turning over a new leaf this year.

I stubbed out what is hopefully my last ciggie in the early hours of Jan 1st. I'm still holding out and amazingly have not yet felt much of an urge to light up - although I think that's partyly down to finding myself with a mild chest infection, which always puts me off the snouts anyway.

I've got that Alan Carr book lying around somewhere too.

Must go dig it out .....


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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:I quit every night then take it back up again in the morning.

I have been trying to quit for a while but just when I start to get somewhere something stresses me out and I get that uncontrollable urge to light up.


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:If you really want to quit then check the book- it explains why all the supposed benefits of smoking (eg stress relief) are misconceptions.

And, as someone who smoked a long time, and have now been a non-smoker for several years, I can say from experience that cigarettes do not help with stress (whilst totally understanding that they can appear to do so); in fact smoking greatly adds to the general level of stress in ones life.

Once you're really free from smoking, you'll not only tend to suffer less from stress, but you'll be able to deal with the stress you do have more effectively.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

hexagonic


hexagonic

Clubbles Jugs
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1687
Posted:I read this book in four days and i went from 30 a day to none. And after i quit i didn't smoke for two and a half years...

so if u wanna quit, read it. It's an interesting book as well which makes it betterer wink


ah wah wah wah a wah wah

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Why did you start again?

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

hexagonic


hexagonic

Clubbles Jugs
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1687
Posted:A really stupid reason (if u can even call it that)

Went to watch Goodfellas and Mean Streets as a double bill (Bless Hammersmith Riverside!) and just felt like smoking again. Got some rollies and said to myself it would just be the one evening, but then enjoyed it and started again. Having said that i had had the occasional fag whilst being drunk in the two or so months prior to that.

Still, two and a half years of not smoking isn't bad? Starting again was pretty mad2 stupid tho.


ah wah wah wah a wah wah

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filthy 23
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

filthy 23

member
Location: USA

Total posts: 136
Posted:Are the "simple but strict instructions" easy to sum up here?

I finally and totally quit in September clap by registering to run a marathon, which is on Sunday. (It's really hard to be a distance runner and a smoker) I think I may as well just go ahead and stay a nonsmoker after the marathon is over...


I AM working.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Hexagonic

A really stupid reason (if u can even call it that)

Went to watch Goodfellas and Mean Streets as a double bill (Bless Hammersmith Riverside!) and just felt like smoking again. Got some rollies and said to myself it would just be the one evening, but then enjoyed it and started again. Having said that i had had the occasional fag whilst being drunk in the two or so months prior to that.

Still, two and a half years of not smoking isn't bad? Starting again was pretty mad2 stupid tho.




By the Carr standards of 'quitting', you never actually quit.

I've been there; as a student going multiple years without a cigarette but having the odd toke on spliffs, thinking of myself as a non-smoker. I also see it in a lot of other people.

If you quit using Carrs method then that's it for nicotine, you don't ever have a drag on anything containing tobacco, whether you're drunk or sober.

That's part of the essence of the method, and that 100% solid line is a lot of the reason it's so successful, and why, if you fully understand the method and accept it, that you won't suffer from cravings.

If you fully understand the method, you'll see that cravings for nicotine consist primarily of indecision- a conscious, or unconscious, debate over whether you're going to have a smoke.

No indecision=no craving.

The unfortunate thing is that the majority of people who quit using Carrs book think that they fully understand his method, but, in actuality only partly understand it (Carr himself is fully aware of this and acknowledges it in a later book).

This is why many people have spectacular success, going from hopeless addiction to freedom with no cravings whatsoever, but then, maybe six months later, have a cigarette and end up back where they started.

Having said that, the good thing is that Carrs approach is so good that, even if you don't fully understand it, you're still in with a good chance of quitting.

I can't stress strongly enough however, if you do quit successfully, the single most certain way to mess it up is to delude yourself into thinking that you can have a drag on a cigarette (or a spliff, or anything containing tobacco) and stay quit.

It's hard to believe that having a toke on a cig and staying quit is not possible; like I said before I spent pretty much 10 years on a cycle of failed attempts and partial successes.

For me, I had to try all the cutting down/substitute methods multiple times before I had to finally accept that it was 100% without nicotine or nothing.

And when I did accept it I was free; been that way for almost 5 years- I now fully understand why I smoked, why I found it so very, very difficult to stop, and why I suddenly found it so easy and no longer suffered from cravings.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: filthy assistant #1

Are the "simple but strict instructions" easy to sum up here?

I finally and totally quit in September clap by registering to run a marathon, which is on Sunday. (It's really hard to be a distance runner and a smoker) I think I may as well just go ahead and stay a nonsmoker after the marathon is over...





By far the best thing is to buy the book- it's small, cheap (around 8) and a very interesting read.

It explains in a very effective way why all the 'benefits' of smoking are illusory and how cravings are caused primarily by your own mistaken view of what smoking is.

Once you fully understand how the smoking trap works, you are free from it and free from the cravings.

But get the book- you won't regret it.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Hubert_Cumberdale
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

Hubert_Cumberdale

[psylocibin fingerbobe].
Location: London, United Kingdom

Total posts: 479
Posted:Good luck with the marathon, Filthy!



And well done to anyone like me who's gasping for a fag and somehow still holding out! I've got me Alan Carr book and inhalator to help me now though biggrin

EDITED_BY: MarkMark (1105041265)


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filthy 23
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

filthy 23

member
Location: USA

Total posts: 136
Posted:Written by: MarkMark

Good luck with the marathon, Filthy!

And well done to anyone like me who's gasping for a fag and somehow still holding out! I've got me Alan Carr book and inhalator to help me now though biggrin



Thanks markmark smile
Being a nonsmoking athlete feels pretty good!
I enjoy being able to taste, smell and enjoy clean air.
I feel happy more often, have more energy, am fit and feel years younger...
Like a superhero, ready to spring into action at a moments notice! bounce2

Written by: onewheeldave
But get the book- you won't regret it.


ok, thanks for the advice OWD smile


I AM working.

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devkev
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

devkev

discoverer of phat and poigling
Location: North London.. England

Total posts: 292
Posted:i am another of this guys sucess storys.. i have not smoked for over 4 months from 30 + a day for more than half my life.... i am liberated and breating freely... much better for doing hardcore sessions of poi...

get the book... give it to who could use it...


its all about the fun fun fun fun and more fun...

Delete

Hubert_Cumberdale
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

Hubert_Cumberdale

[psylocibin fingerbobe].
Location: London, United Kingdom

Total posts: 479
Posted:Still hanging in there.

No cigarettes since the 1st.

Thats after my first proper 2005 trip to a smokey pub at the weekend too.

It's been difficult at times though.


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Mand
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada

Total posts: 2317
Posted:I started smoking when I was 15.
I started competing in mountain bike races, and found that my breathing was getting painful.
So I stopped smoking, just like that. No book, no cravings.
I think it was because I had to give up if I wanted to continue what I loved doing.
It was the easiest thing in the world (but I'd only been smoking 10 - 20 a week, for about 2 years).

After an accident, I was lain up in bed for just over a month, wrapped in bandages and not in a good way.
I got one of my room mates to get me a packet of cigs- a decision I really regret.
I'm still smoking now at age 24.

I tried giving up again a few times, but most of the time my heart wasn't in it.

The time I was most serious, I got rid of all cigarettes, tobaco, rizlas and lighters, after I had found Allen Carrs book in the staff room.
I read the book cover to cover in a day.
I followed the instructions to the best of my ability.
I started smoking again 3 days later. frown

I guess it's works for some but not for others.


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

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Hubert_Cumberdale
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

Hubert_Cumberdale

[psylocibin fingerbobe].
Location: London, United Kingdom

Total posts: 479
Posted:Mand, although I say everyone's free to choose, being 'free' to make our own choices etc.... smoking is definitely mugs game.

In the UK, with population of about 60mill, there are some 40,000 new cases of lung cancer per year. 90% of them are attributable to smoking.

LC is the most common form of cancer here, causing about 9% of our deaths overall.. so you can see the risk involved.

That's something like nearly 10x the amount of deaths on 9/11 in the just the UK alone every year.

This is why I want to give it a rest now at last - I don't mind the odd special fat roll up, but tobacco for the sake of it?... nah

I'll shut up about it, cause I know we've all heard this sort of thing before. oh... plus why is always the EX smokers who are the most preachy eh? But do try and knock it on the head as soon as you've got the willpower again.


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Mand
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada

Total posts: 2317
Posted:I've heard all the statistics.
I know as well as any non smoker how bad it is for you.
I know that, although I don't smoke a great deal (about 5 a day) I'm still slowly killing myself.

I'm not going to try and quit at the moment, because I know I won't succeed.
I go through phases of liking smoking and hating it. At the moment I like it.
When I'm in a phase of hating it, then I'll pool all my efforts into stopping.

Who knows, I may even give that book a second go. wink


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

Delete

Hubert_Cumberdale
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

Hubert_Cumberdale

[psylocibin fingerbobe].
Location: London, United Kingdom

Total posts: 479
Posted:I love smoking.

(is why I'm hard to give it up! aaaargh!)

Oh well, good luck for when you give it another go.

(and sorry if I sounded preachy just there.. I have to keep reminding myself why I aught to stop one of my most successful hobbies wink )


Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Mand
When I'm in a phase of hating it, then I'll pool all my efforts into stopping.

Who knows, I may even give that book a second go. wink



Do.

Written by: Mand


The time I was most serious, I got rid of all cigarettes, tobaco, rizlas and lighters, after I had found Allen Carrs book in the staff room.
I read the book cover to cover in a day.
I followed the instructions to the best of my ability.
I started smoking again 3 days later. frown

I guess it's works for some but not for others.



Then I'm one of the books failures, cos I gave up using it many, many years ago, but, being young and independantly minded I thought I could disregard it's central point, which is that you cannot put nicotine in your body and remain quitted.

(Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that if you have truly quit, by understanding how you became addicted in the first place and then seeing that it was based on delusion; then you quite simply would not ever put another cigarette (or cigar, or tobacco containing spliff) in your mouth again).

I then convinced myself that I had quit whilst smoking occasional spliffs, which lasted several years until a time of stress coincided with a time of spliff drought, and the illusion crumbled as I worked my way back up to a twenty-a-day-habit again.

During my last year of smoking I hated cigarettes, and, the more I hated them, the more I smoked. I quit on average once a week for that year, each time giving, or throwing away, all my tobacco, then starting again, often the next day.

During that year (in hindsight) there were two occasions where I stayed off them for several weeks, and had a true opportunity to stay off.

The first time I succumbed to the tempation of something containing nicotine offered by someone very appealing, again decieving myself that it was 'just the one'.

The second time I recognised the opportunity and realised that the only person who could stop me deceiving myself, was myself. From that day on I never put a cigarette, or anything containing nicotine, in my mouth again.

Neither did I enter into internal dialogue with any bits of my own mind which were starting any trains of thought that looked like they could lead to anything resembling something that made the prospect of a cigarette look appealing.

I got round the pub/drunken acceptance of a cigarette by staying away from drink- initially for a few weeks, but I soon realised that drinking was a bit of a delusion as well, and nowadays scarely touch the stuff.

=======================

Concerning fitness- it's actually quite a dodgy reason to quit: when I was training seriously in Thai Boxing I quit for fitness. Trouble is, if you stop training, your reason for not smoking is diminished as well.

Concerning health- it should be a good reason, but generally it's not: as Carr points out , vist the exit/entrance of any cancer outpatients hospital and count the dog ends.

I never understood my true motivation for wanting to quit until Ihad actually succeeded- it wasn't heath, money or fitness, it was quite simply that I don't want to be a slave, and, as a smoker, I was a slave.

===================

When you put out your last cigarette, make it easy on yourself by not torturing yourself; if you've understood the book you'll realise that 99% of craving consists of your own mental processes.

You understand in your head (intellectually) that there's nothing good about having a smoke, you need to understand it in your heart.

When someone offers you a cig, you don't need to enter a internal dialogue about the pros/cons of accepting it- there are no pros: simply say 'no' and get on with your business.

If some subconscious aspect of your own mind starts throwing desires to smoke around, simply recognise them for what they are, and do not engage with them.

You can, if you wish, fight them, but that just gives them power and,in the long run, makes it harder on yourself.

=======================

For a smoker to truly quit is actually a very rare thing; it's sad but true that most smoking addicts will remain so till the day they die.

If you've quit for several months, that's such a rare thing, an opportunity to stay free forever- so many people in that position throw it away, thinking they can have a toke and stay quit.

If you instead, refrain from putting a cigarette in your mouth, and don't torture yourself with wistful thinking of past years of enjoying smoking that, in actual fact, never really existed; then you can stay free.
======================


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

peles_paynim
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

peles_paynim

member
Location: the fascist states of amerika,...

Total posts: 80
Posted:thanx for the info...i smoke...alot...i don't want to...i'll buy that book..yes this is the same person who just ranted about being a veggie..yes..i'm a vegetarian smoker...bring it on....

real eyes
realize
real lies

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Thanks for putting this up OWD... I was just about to put up a post called ""I'm on my 2nd day without smoking... Someone PLEASE give me a cheer to help me stay motivated""
then I thought hmmmmm *do a search*...

and found this post. I am, like many others here, an on again off again light smoker. But 'light' smoking produces so much stress... never quite free, never quite satisfied.... ( hmmm sounds like life...)

So...I will simply not smoke (no internal dialogue) until I have found a copy of this book.. then... not smoke! umm ( I am of course not entirely convinced, having gone back so many times, and essentially stillliking the experience of sitting on the deck with the rollies..and living with other smokers)

SO PLEASE will someone give me a cheer!!!!
ps
Any opinions about Nicobate or similar (small lozenges containing small amounts of nicotine to help with withdrawals).. I find that having a small amount of one gets me over the hump so I don't panic... but essentially I still have to go through the headaches etc of the substance clearing out...otherwise I'm jsut addicted to the Nicobate)


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Parafinfairy
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Parafinfairy

old hand
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 845
Posted:Well done Gabe!!! Have some hugs hug hug hug2 You can do it!! I quit last year and then had one drag of one on Sat night (and have occasionally on drunken moments in the past) and I can honestly say that each time I've done it I've found it disgusting. It really didn't feel nice, though when I'm drunk I think it will!! The thing I miss most about giving up is the actual rolling up bit!!

Anyway have some hugs and try and do stuff that will break the habit. You'll soon find that you don't even think about it anymore. The book advises against the gum and stuff but if its that or smoking again then I'd go for the gum!! Have some more hugs hug hug


Slicing the Loaf as we speak.

I need it..... Trust me!

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Thanks Lexie!!!!!!!! Hugs very much appreciated!!!! Yes I shall have to take up spinning to keep my fingers occupied . Oh hahahaha I just realised what I wrote.... spinning as in wool I mean!! Sitting here having a big craving attack (it's such a strange feeling, like a tension in the jaw and mouth....) But I am not going to smoke so that's that.



And that means anything of any colour btw..... very chill turkey....

ubblol


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:newgabe- good luck with quitting.

The book does indeed advise against gum, patches and any other nicotine containing stuff.

However, currently you're not using the book (otherwise you wouldn't be experiencing cravings); so maybe it's best to continue doing what you're doing, which may include gum etc.

If you do find yourself smoking again, then my advice is to back off for a bit, reflect on what factors led to starting again; and then buy Allen Carrs book and give it a go.

But for now, here's a cheer for you smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

ed209


ed209

Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 122
Posted:Congratulations to everyone here who's trying to quit smoking or has already succeeded. It's really difficult so you're all great!. hug

Just wanted to add one thing: the chances of successfully quitting by going cold turkey are tiny (so an extra pat on the back for anyone who's done it). They can be improved by using products like gum and patches.

But research has shown that by far the best way of quitting smoking is to get professional help. For people in the UK, the NHS runs free Stop Smoking groups, a series of sessions run by health professionals for groups of smokers who want to stop. In the sessions you can find out more about ways to give up and share tips and experiences with others. In many areas, one to one counselling is also available.

To find out more:
Call the NHS Smoking Helpline on 0800 169 0 169, open 7am-11pm every day.
Quit also have a helpline with information and advice to help you give up smoking. Call 0800 00 22 00 between 9am and 9pm or e-mail stopsmoking@quit.org.uk.

And a quick plug for this website for people who want to find out more about smoking and how to quit. http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/healthyliving/tobacco/?a=5441
br>

Sorry if this alienates non-UK people, but I'm sure that the equivalent services are available around the world - just a case of finding them.


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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Yeah, here there's a Quitline phone number on every tobacco outlet. Haven't had any bother with cravings tonight but feel crappy anyway... sore back and strange pressure feelings in the ears... unrelated I suspect...anyway I'm just whinging and should go to bed! Thanks for the words chaps!!! I'll check in tomorrow to see if there's any more motivators!!

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: ed209


Just wanted to add one thing: the chances of successfully quitting by going cold turkey are tiny (so an extra pat on the back for anyone who's done it). They can be improved by using products like gum and patches.




This is one of the things that Carr disputes in his book; he believes that all substitutes, especially ones containing nicotine, actually make it harder to quit. He also challenges many other traditonal approaches, particularly those based on 'cutting down'.

I have a lot of respect for his approach, as, despite trying many other ways of quitting over many years, it was his ideas that enabled me to quit successfully, and quit for good.

But my approach is that different things work for different people, and, if they feel the need to try substitutes or cutting down, then I always say 'OK, give it a go, and, if you find it repeatedly not working, then there's always another approach (Carrs book).

To be honest, the reason I ultimately decided that the conventional approaches were, and would remain, ineffective (for me), was not so much Carrs arguements against them, as much as the fact that I tried them repeatedly and finally had to face up to the fact that (for me) they didn't work.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

quiet


quiet

analytic
Location: bristol

Total posts: 503
Posted:mm, i think this carr stuff sounds right. i'm giving up (again) tomorrow . . .

thought: carr vs buddhist meditation. anyone notice anything?


ture na sig

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Page: 123

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