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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Predictions for 2005

All just my opinion of course: -

2005 will be the year of the diabolo- fueled by thousands of spinners looking to move into some traditional skills; the diablo, with its very easy initial learning curve, yet also scope for really challenging moves and combinations, will be ideal.

Also another yo-yo boom, which I think will have more of a cross-over with diabolo and poi than previous ones.

And of course a boost in circus skills of all kinds, which is already evident with new shops opening up etc.

--------------------------

On the web, Javascript/Active-x issues will become highly relevant, and will no longer be 'brushed under the carpet'.

Doing some research recently I saw estimates of 8 to 9% for web users who switch off Javascript/ActiveX in their browsers because of the security issues associated with them.

That's getting close to 1 in 10 of web users, and that's the kind of level where web site owners have to start to seriously consider the consequences for their web traffic.

In addition, the Javascript/activeX issue is not like past situations with old browsers (where many web designers had to 'fudge' their designs so they'd work in out-of-date browsers) because, whereas old browsers diminish in numbers as time goes by, it's almost certain that the number of users switching off Javascript/ActiveX will continue to grow with each new security problem and with the spreading knowledge that disabling Javascript/ActiveX is a good way of averting most malware attacks.

-----------------

Lastly, for those living in the civilised west, a greater appreciation of just how lucky we are.

It felt so strange at the turn of the New Year watching the TV coverage of the celebrations in London, with what must have been hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of fireworks being hurled into the sky as, elsewhere over 100,000 people have been wiped out and many more are destined to die.

I didn't feel judgemental, just strange.

Later the phrase 'exchange rate' popped into my head- how many ethiopean lives, for example, are worth one American or British life.

And I'm not being cynical here; we all know it's undisputable that we place more value on our own, and that what is out-of-sight is out-of-mind. I'm not even saying it shouldn't be that way to some extent.

But, this year in particular, I've become more and more aware of the gluttony over here, the lack of appreciation, the frivolity and waste.

I want to predict that those issues will be seriously addressed by more people, and a greater recognition that those living in distant hell-holes are just like us.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:I herd an interesting fact on radio 4 the other day at present to get on the national news in way of deaths it is currently 1 one British person to over a thousand Ethiopian lives.

Im sorry but that is just sick. 1000 people have to die to get the same media coverage as 1 lousy ungrateful Brit.


before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs..., United Ki...

Total posts: 2719
Posted:Indeed. Can you put value of any kind on a human life? Rate it in cash? Media Coverage?

hmmm...


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1733
Posted:And it's not even that straightforward, it's also about global economics with the media - how many column inches were given to Ken Bigley's death compared to the 3 year old murdered in Nottingham? It was more newsworthy for 1 grown-up in a distant country who was there by his own choice (for the money) because of the world/oil/war/political issues than facing the truth about our own society and the relevance of one child who had no choices.

'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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Havokist
BRONZE Member since Dec 2004

Havokist


Location: Manchester, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2530
Posted:the world is truely f*****d up like that and it really shouldnt be like this. i blame capitalism and greed/money. news companies tend to only publish anything that they think will appeal to people and make them buy the news paper. everone who gains the smallest amount of power over something that a lot of people will see will become corrupt and power hungry, which shouldnt happen.

We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.

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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs..., United Ki...

Total posts: 2719
Posted:Power Corrupts. etc etc

The pursuit of money for money's sake is, IMHO, evil, whereas the pursuit of money for washing machine's sake, or kid's present's sake is alright.
Surely its the means to an end, not the end itself?

Sensationalisation is the key, if its "news" it wins. 3 year old kids die every day, but Ken Bigley was killed by terrorists, this century's hottest topic!

I really hope the media don't see it that way?


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

Predictions for 2005

All just my opinion of course: -

2005 will be the year of the diabolo- fueled by thousands of spinners looking to move into some traditional skills; the diablo, with its very easy initial learning curve, yet also scope for really challenging moves and combinations, will be ideal.



As usual Dave is wrong. wink

Hula Hoop.

Trust me.

Hula
Hoop

It's coming.

It's hip, it's cute, it's the new rave craze.

You heard it here first.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:"Later the phrase 'exchange rate' popped into my head- how many ethiopean lives, for example, are worth one American or British life.
And I'm not being cynical here; we all know it's undisputable that we place more value on our own, and that what is out-of-sight is out-of-mind. I'm not even saying it shouldn't be that way to some extent.
But, this year in particular, I've become more and more aware of the gluttony over here, the lack of appreciation, the frivolity and waste.
I want to predict that those issues will be seriously addressed by more people, and a greater recognition that those living in distant hell-holes are just like us."

Well said dave.
Hopefully 2005, due to the G8 summit in Gleneagles, will be the year for real change... I'm hoping for it anyway. hug

(and did anyone else find it strange that the Vicar of Dibley - a tame, BBC 'comedy' - gave over its entire Christmas episode to this issue?!! It actually called for people to protest at the summit! It just seemed highly unusual for such trivial programme to make such a valid point. It grated with me slightly)


Getting to the other side smile

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jennyannej


jennyannej

newbie
Location: Cairo, Egypt

Total posts: 10
Posted:Written by: Firepoise

"Later the phrase 'exchange rate' popped into my head- how many ethiopean lives, for example, are worth one American or British life.




Hey y'all, first happy new years to everyone, don't let it slip away to fast the whole new beginnings vibe....
....so I thought I'd add my two cents with a 'well now that I'm living in Egypt' story, feel free to rolleyes

In regards to exchange rate for lives its also apparent here. First of all the prices for goods in the bazaars etc change depending on your nationality, as a poor kiwi I get a good deal but Canadians/British get a much harder deal. In fact what is your nationality is almost the first question you get asked when you are walking down the street. And if the answer is American ............ you get a huge welcome, handshakes, tea and extra special care shown not just by the general public but the hotels and security as well. Americans have to show their passports more often, and are generally looked after more carefully.

Strange isn't it, you'd think that there would be less seperation between country politics and actual citizens, but there's not and they get more appreciation rather than less........
.....the Egyptians have a wonderful societal code and they always look after each other. Food is given freely from falafel joints to street kids, families share work round, communities celebrate together out on the street. And for me, a foreign resdient they are so generous with the little they have. It's hard not to compare back to the Western world the mainstream mentality of looking out for number one, blah blah blah. It just really makes me reconsider so much of what I accepted as the way to live. ubbidea

So screw that we are all worth an unestimatable amount and not just for what we have done in the past but for the potential we have to do accomplish anything from here on in.

and now I will descend from my soap box, thank you redface


get up stand up

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:NYC speaks the truth, it's really taking off in the States(actually has for some time), and looks to be the same over in Canada. You peeps in the UK seen anything like this?
Me personally I'll stick with my cube and keep trying to learn uni for the year ahead wink

I disagree too about users turning off javascript/activeX, and sites catering to that more. If anything you will see more sites providing a slimmed down(low bandwidth, no script, and more accessible by mobile products) version of their sites in addition to their full site. I'd argue that this year will see more emphasis on the trust relationships(client vs site), and measures taken to improve that awareness(dig signatures, site ratings/rankings, site certificates, etc) within each browser. I just _seriously_ doubt the web is _ever_ going to turn it's back on progress and revert back to simpler times. I really hope not, I'm still waiting for the 'Net(GlobalNET, Matrix, etc) to appear :P

Written by: NYC

Written by: onewheeldave

Predictions for 2005

All just my opinion of course: -

2005 will be the year of the diabolo- fueled by thousands of spinners looking to move into some traditional skills; the diablo, with its very easy initial learning curve, yet also scope for really challenging moves and combinations, will be ideal.



As usual Dave is wrong. wink

Hula Hoop.

Trust me.

Hula
Hoop

It's coming.

It's hip, it's cute, it's the new rave craze.

You heard it here first.



First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:2005 being a big year for diablolo is totally compatable with hula hoop getting big as well smile it's not 'either/or'.

the diabolo scene is pretty crazy at the moment- I was aware that running 2 diabolos at once was no longer that unusual, but, over the past few days I've seen a good few vids of 3 on one string, very smooth & with tricks! (mainly French).


Written by: musashii


I disagree too about users turning off javascript/activeX, and sites catering to that more. If anything you will see more sites providing a slimmed down(low bandwidth, no script, and more accessible by mobile products) version of their sites in addition to their full site. I'd argue that this year will see more emphasis on the trust relationships(client vs site), and measures taken to improve that awareness(dig signatures, site ratings/rankings, site certificates, etc) within each browser. I just _seriously_ doubt the web is _ever_ going to turn it's back on progress and revert back to simpler times. I really hope not, I'm still waiting for the 'Net(GlobalNET, Matrix, etc) to appear :P




The Javascript thing is fact- around 8 to 9% are currently switching it off, IMO, very sensibly.

I'd be happy if your prediction of alternative and highly simplified alternatives for sites being provided came true.

The 'trust relationship' thing is likely to be hindered by past betrayals of trust- in particuclar the disgraceful way ActiveX was thrust upon us with no real attempt to deal with the fact that a script which enabled others easy access to any users PC (who browsed a site), would blatantly enable serious misuse.

I would argue that shoving these security risks out of the picture is far from 'going back' but that it is actually progress.

But I guess we're never going to agree on this issue; like I said above, I hope that your idea of alternative sites for those who want multimedia/flashy stuff, and those who prefer simplicity/info/secure browsing, does get put in place, then everyone will be catered for.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:is ok, we don't have to agree. I'm not an expert, but doesn't accepting/downloading only signed controls fix most problems? I haven't done it in a few years, so I don't remember _all_ of the steps to go through getting an activeX control signed, but it wasn't easy, involved providing a copy of the business license, a tax id, some other business information I can't remember, and this was using verisign, I'm sure other certificate auths are around now.

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I'd say it doesn't solve all the problems as: -

1. I believe Microsoft is involved in the signed activeX control process? I think it's obvious to many of us that Microsoft have no committment to providing genuine security for web users- their approach has always been one of patching problems that, with foresight, could have been prevented in the first place.

And however difficult the registration process is, I'm sure that cutting-edge malware producers can find ways to hack it.

2. We're still left with the huge numbers of sites using unsigned controls and general javascript. These aren't a problem (for those who disable scripting in their browsers for security reasons) as long as the scripts are just used for flashy gimmicks; but when, as is often the case, they insist on using it for site navigation (which is totally unnecessary) then that site becomes unusable. Sadly, many such sites are the quite important govt/public information sites, which really should know better.



The sad thing here is that it's mainly lack of knowledge that's the root of the problem- if the people commisioning these sites knew just what a huge security/accessibility issue activeX/javascript is, they would probably use it a lot less and/or provide alternative 'basic' pages.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:1. Not at all, your digital certificate for the control is issued by a third party authentication source, basically a company that issues a digital signature(128 bit I believe) that you include as part of the build, microsoft does indeed provide hooks within their development framework(for activeX/OLE controls) to make this easier, but this doesn't mean that they control the process by any means.


http://www.verisign.com/products-services/security-services/code-signing/index.html


As for hacking the process, I'm not really sure. Seems it would be hard to stay in business as a cert provider if anyone could generate or spoof their own. I'll have to see if I can dredge anything up about it tommorrow.


2. The web will always be a dangerous place, period. Yeehaw, sure can't wait til we're jacked in rolleyes
It's up to a user to either have the right software in place or know how to avoid security leaks. And using navigation solely based on javascript is just bad design unless you're providing an alternative.


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: musashii




2. The web will always be a dangerous place, period.





So negative and fatalistic. The web will be dangerous until enough people make it a priority for it to be safe.



Also, there's levels of danger- while it's true the web will likely never be 100% safe, it's perfectly feasable that it not be anywhere near as dodgy as it is now.



Look at how most people, in addition to anti-virus software and a firewall, now need anti-spyware/anti-adware, and even that's getting inadequate- now there's also software to check if somethings trying to modify your registery and stuff like 'hijack this' for the inevitable times some new breed of super-malware takes over your system.



99% of all that is disabled by switching off activeX/javascript- it's not 100% safe, but it's a vast improvement.



Written by: musashii




It's up to a user to either have the right software in place or know how to avoid security leaks.





You think so? To get anywhere near safe you're talkng about at least four lots of software (anti-virus, firewall, adware, spyware) which have to be configured initially, and then regularly updated on, at least a weekly, and ideally a daily basis.



Each of these have to be running constanly in the background with the attendant risk of dodgy interaction and system instability.



And it's only just beginning, you must have noticed the rise in malware over the past year. It's not long ago that adware/spyware infection was a new thing, now it's a standard part of the web experience. Look at the number of discussion boards devoted to using anti-malware software like Spybot Search and Destroy, Ad-aware etc.



There's organisations out there employing experts full time to come up with new ways to force their unwanted malware onto OUR systems.



I've got to say that this common attitude that anyone whos system is trashed by malware is an irresponsible failure who should have done more to prevent it; is a bit out of order- the majority of web useres are not IT loving geeks with 2 hours a day to spend on learning all the stuff necessary to keep up with new security issues.



I wish people would stop pushing that attitude because it doesn't help.



Written by: musashii




And using navigation solely based on javascript is just bad design unless you're providing an alternative.





Absolutely true, but it happens a lot. Some sites just display as a totally blank page if javascript is disabled. A lot of the people who commision sites are as niave about this issue as the general browsing public.



Web designers don't help with their fixation on style/originality, to the detriment of far more important issues such as security and accessibility.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

So negative and fatalistic. The web will be dangerous until enough people make it a priority for it to be safe.




A little more fatalistic than I intended it to be. I really mean that the internet as a whole will always be dangerous in some shape or form. And the burden of protecting yourself lies on everyone, from the system admin configuring a new server coming online, to the developers, and yes, to the end users. There's no doubt in my mind that awareness has been raised in most peoples minds about security, as it needs to be.

Written by: onewheeldave

And it's only just beginning, you must have noticed the rise in malware over the past year. It's not long ago that adware/spyware infection was a new thing, now it's a standard part of the web experience. Look at the number of discussion boards devoted to using anti-malware software like Spybot Search and Destroy, Ad-aware etc.

There's organisations out there employing experts full time to come up with new ways to force their unwanted malware onto OUR systems.

I've got to say that this common attitude that anyone whos system is trashed by malware is an irresponsible failure who should have done more to prevent it; is a bit out of order- the majority of web useres are not IT loving geeks with 2 hours a day to spend on learning all the stuff necessary to keep up with new security issues.




There's no doubt that things have gotten out of hand. I don't think your corporations are out there specifically designing malware as you say, simply trying to gain a marketing advantage. I contracted at one of these companies before, I should know(I didn't work on the spyware itself, I assisted in their marketing campaign for their flagship software, which I found out later was bundled with their own spyware). I do NOT agree with this practice, nor do I think it's an honest business practice, I'm just saying that it's spyware the corporations are developing, not malware(designed to provide a backdoor, or trash your system, etc). It would be nice if privacy laws were extended to your personal computer, making spyware illegal, but I don't think we'll be gaining any civil liberties under this current administration in the states. But as far as the attitude that it is the solely the users responsibility, see above, not really trying to give that impression, nor do I have all the answers wink

Written by: onewheeldave

Web designers don't help with their fixation on style/originality, to the detriment of far more important issues such as security and accessibility.



Ah yes, damn originality and style. You don't seem to know much about marketing, or you're trying to impress the notion that the web is strictly for information a little too hard(or just trying to piss me off, heh). Style and originality play a huge part in any marketing tool or service, would Nike be where it was today without their logo, or ad campaigns? That's what designers do, they _design_ a unique look, feel, image for a sites' intended audience. And it's not always(nor does it have to be) at the detriment of security or accessibility.


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Have a look at the 'coolwebsearch chronicles'-

http://cwshredder.net/cwshredder/cwschronicles.html
br>
It's apparent there that there was a team of developers constantly upgrading that particuclar bit of malware; specifically they were studying how protective software was blocking it and then designing ways round it.

I consider 'malware' to be any bit of code that is surreptitiously slipped onto users systems without their consent, particularly if it is designed to do stuff that the user obviously would not desire, such as-

*sending back info about their browsing habits for marketing purposes etc

*forcing pop-up ads on them

*changing their homepage

*altering their registry in such a way that when they remove undersirable code; it is then re-inserted on boot-up

So IMO malware is not just viruses designed to trash systems, but includes spy ware/ad ware and any marketing device that is secretly slipped onto users systems.

(remember that even malware not designed to trash a system, can end up doing so simply by creating system instabilities; particuclarly when you've got upwards of 20 secretly installed pieces of software constantly running in the background and using up vital system resources).

I know that there is a immense pressure on companies to keep up with the latest marketing exploits, and that, to most, that justifies secretly installing malware onto susers systems.

I simply maintain that they are wrong. That reasoning is trundled out to justify all kinds of immoral acts- it's a vicious circle that has led to the present security nightmare on the web.

It is wrong to inflict unwanted software onto people- the reason this stuff is so devious and uses such complex means to install itself is that people blatently do not want it, hence the rise in blocking software like spy-bot.

=============

Written by: musashii

There's no doubt in my mind that awareness has been raised in most peoples minds about security, as it needs to be.



Seriously? I'm incredulous. You obviously move in fairly computer literate circles.

Do you ever think of the many computer buyers who can barely set up their new systems and don't even know what anti-virus software is?

Today I looked at the number of registered users of one malware discussion forum. It was 37,254.
Let me asure you that most don't register with the forum out of pure interest in malware; the majority are there because they are in desperate need of help.

They've got a virus that normal AV software can't sort, or some devious malware that resets their homepage every time they reboot, or maybe a 'dialer' progam that automatically dials to a premium line.

That's roughly twice the membership of HOP- in no way is that an 'insignificant' number of malware sufferers.

And that's just one board; most anti-virus softwares have a discussion board, as do Adaware and Spybot.

Many of those affected by malware are not that IT naive either; malware is constantly being upgraded to get past blocking software and get by even fairly astute users.

==============

In a way we're in agreement that the best way to deal with the problem is for web useres to take responsibility for it.

However, I believe that, for most users, by far the most practical thing to do is disable Javascript/activeX in their browsers.

(In Internet Explorer go to TOOLS> INTERNET OPTIONS> SECURITY- click on the INTERNET ZONE icon, then CUSTOM LEVEL and set it to 'HIGH').

Feel free to install spy/ad-ware blockers as well, but, assuming your system has not already been compromised by a malware attack (which can sometimes leave behind code which alters your security settings back- so keep an eye on them) by far the single most effective (and simplest) way to protect against malware is to set your internet security to high.

=============

It's probably obvious by now, but I'll just make it clear; I really do not like Javascript and ActiveX, and I would ideally like to see them gone from the web, along with the underlying attitudes that brought them into being.

I'm not so naive as to think that it will definitly happen; but I consider it a possibility (given that currently almost 10% (1 in 10) of users have cottoned on to the fact that disabling javascript and activeX is a very good idea when it comes to security).

I have no objection whatsoever to 'style' and innovation in web site design, as long as it doesn't involve malware or using script (without providing alternatives for those who disable scripts on their browsers).

Now that CSS is on the rise and can provide some of the functions that previously needed Javascript, and with the prevelance of server side scripts which can achieve most things without requiring scripts running on the users system; is it really a big deal if Javascript and activeX dissapear?

Originality and style are fine, but when they create or sustain security issues or problems with accessibility then that is a problem.

=========

Written by: musashii


Ah yes, damn originality and style. You don't seem to know much about marketing, or you're trying to impress the notion that the web is strictly for information a little too hard(or just trying to piss me off, heh).



I'm just stating my views- I believe strongly in them and have done plenty of research. I've seriously got no interest in winding you up- if you feel that my little campaign against javascript/activeX is in some way negative then do say why and perhaps I can get some different perspective.

If it's mainly about a percieved threat to style and innovation in site design, then ,like I said above, those can be achieved using other things than javascript/activeX.

If it's about a percieved threat to unbridled marketing ploys that pay no regard to the rights of web users, then I make no apologies- I'm against that.

Even there however, surely that's no problem to anyone- if dodgy marketing using malware is cut (whether by legislation or by users disabling scripts in their browsers) then it simply creates a level playing field where companies can pull ahead by other means, such as customer service and integrity, rather than pushing out ever more unremovable and insiduous malware that inflicts unwanted pop-ups on peopele.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:not so sure, i think the diabolo is done. however already this year i have promised to teach staff, poi, and juggling to three different people! circus is gonna become mainstream, and i dont like it........while lots of people i know love to watch in awe, i find it slightly irritating that people say "can you teach me that?" but they aren't commited enough to continue it through, its like a waste of my practice time.
And on the same level there are all these n00b firetwirlers poping up, which also annoys me as someone who twirled through a cold winter. spose we'll just have to wait for most of the hangers-on to go away


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Here's a link to the diablo forums video page: -

http://www.diabolo.ca/video.htm
br>
The 'hamster dance' vid is particuclarly nice; it starts with some fairly obscure stuff that probably will be mainly appreciated by diabolists, but the last half consists of running three on one string.

It's the 'low' version of three, is done very smoothly, and looks both surreal and amazing.

I've seen a fair few other vids and the standard of diablolo has gone through the roof- three low is considered difficult, but there's plenty who have achieved it and plenty more working on it; two has become almost a basic move.

In terms of online communities I think spinning has been very well catered for, has has off-road unicycling; general juggling stuff to a lesser extent, and others (devil stick etc) to a fairly low level.

The biggest growth definitly seems to be in diablolo, with several very well structured, and regularly visited, forums having sprung up.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave


The biggest growth definitly seems to be in diablolo, with several very well structured, and regularly visited, forums having sprung up.





Hooping. biggrin


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:There's no point just saying 'Hooping' NYC; where's your evidence?

Where's the hooping vids, online resources, well frequented hooping discussion boards?

Just saying 'hoop' is pointless... pointless.

Evidence.

smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Have to agree with NYC on this one, because its also been my observation that Hula Hooping is the new rave craze; well at least in oz.

cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

There's no point just saying 'Hooping' NYC; where's your evidence?

Where's the hooping vids, online resources, well frequented hooping discussion boards?

Just saying 'hoop' is pointless... pointless.

Evidence.

smile



Do a search. wink

www.hooping.org is a good start.

And since when do I need evidence for a prediction? biggrin

Don't call you go callin' my actions "pointless" just cuz you ain't intellimegent enough to understand them.

hug

*Stands behind you and wiggles my fingers and whispers...*

"Hooping. Hoooooping. Hoooooooooooooooooping."


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:OK, hooping.com's forum and diabolo.ca's forum have conveniently similar number of registered members-



Hooping.com- "Our users have posted a total of 645 articles

We have 196 registered users"



Diabolo.ca- "116 members, 35 posts a day, 15 countries, 5 continents"



If it's about predictions then how about we let these be the representatives of the respective arts, and see how they're looking at the end of 2005.



Does that sound fair?



smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:OK Mr. Fact Checker.

Now find me a hoop site that's more than 2 years old. Or a photo of a hula hoop at a previous Juggling Convention.

Diabolo was always moderately sized.

Hoop is undergoing a total resurgance from practically zero. There was NO mainstream hooping three years ago, and now you can take workout classes at your local gym on it. Or at least I can. smile


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I believe the matter in hand was my prediction that 2005 will be the year of the diabolo, and you said-

Written by: NYC


As usual Dave is wrong. wink

Hula Hoop.

Trust me.




proposing instead that 2005 would in fact be the year of hooping.

So, in a sense, the present states of the two arts is not particularly relevant in comparison with their states at the end of 2005.

I appreciate what you're saying about hoopings resurgance, but I'd say that diabolo is in a simailar position.

diabolo.ca has been in existance for 2 months, in that time it's acquired 116 members who have contributed 2000 posts and has a video gallery of excellent quality.

As you say, diabolo has always been around, but only at the kind of level as say, devil sticking and the other juggling offshoots; prior to diabolo.ca there was no other comparable online resource.

IMO both arts are in a similar state- in a period of intense growth; I would argue that diabolo is growing faster, you would argue that hooping is growing faster.

Time will provide the answer- at the end of 2005 it should be clear whether 2005 is the year of the diabolo... or the year of the hoop.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Incidently, much as it's good fun to have these little skirmishes with NYC, it's all in good fun, and I wish the best of luck to both diabolo-ing and hooping in their quest for expansion.

NYC, I'm also genuinely intested in what's happening with hooping as, I must confess, I can't really imagine where it can be taken further- are there any decent vids online showing the new innovations.

Also, now that diabolo, spinning, unicycling and hooping all have excellent discussion boards, does anyone know of one for devilstick (I know about the minor ones, but I'm looking for one with regular posts- a thriving community like the ones I've just mentioned)?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:http://www.hooping.org/archives/cat_videos.html
br>
Check out the Burningman video. Unfortunately, it's a showcase of what was going on at Burningman and not a technical showcase so you'll have to watch carefully. There are a few hot techy moves thrown in there and some quality hooping but mostly it's just people in the desert.

Also... and I always forget this when I download burningman vids... don't forget there will be some topless nudity so don't download it if you work.. like in a school. wink


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:http://www.hooprevolution.com/gallery.html
br>
I like their promo video but again, you kinda gotta know hooping to spot the crazy techy stuff. They've got a transition from two girls in a hoop to one and back to two that's just plain difficult.

The vid is mostly just chicks dancing and showing flesh but has some quality hooping mixed in.


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave

As you say, diabolo has always been around, but only at the kind of level as say, devil sticking and the other juggling offshoots; prior to diabolo.ca there was no other comparable online resource.

IMO both arts are in a similar state- in a period of intense growth; I would argue that diabolo is growing faster, you would argue that hooping is growing faster.

Time will provide the answer- at the end of 2005 it should be clear whether 2005 is the year of the diabolo... or the year of the hoop.



Again, I think that it's the growth of hooping that has impressed me. Last year I saw hundreds of Diabolos at EJC and had not seen a hoop all year. Within the last 6 months I've seen many hoops in places that I hadn't seen.

If hoop goes from 0.1 to 10 and diabolo goes from 50 - 60 (whatever units you want to use) then I'd say it was the year of the hoop.

Otherwise I proclaim 2005 the year of breathing, as more breaths will be taken on earth this year than any other. wink


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Damn you and your links NYC!

As if it's not enough that I've got sucked into learning 2 diabolos, just made a flower stick, as well as maintaining my spinning/juggling/off-road unicycling skills; now I've got an awful urge to hit the DIY shops looking for 1" irrigation piping to make my first hoop!

smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

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