Forums > Social Discussion > Controlled Burn Website
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That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
WE finally have a website check it out. www.controlledburnreno.com We still have some stuff to add but it's a start
WE finally have a website check it out. www.controlledburnreno.com We still have some stuff to add but it's a start
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
It seems to have no links or navigation. On my PC it consists soley of two big pics that take way, way too long to load (on dial-up) and a big pic at the top that doesn't load.
I thought it might be due to my security settings, but, when I lowered them it still didn't work.
IMO you should avoid using Active-X/javascript, they add to the security/virus problems plaguing the web and are not necessary on a site like yours (or on 98% of the sites that do use them).
It seems to have no links or navigation. On my PC it consists soley of two big pics that take way, way too long to load (on dial-up) and a big pic at the top that doesn't load.
I thought it might be due to my security settings, but, when I lowered them it still didn't work.
IMO you should avoid using Active-X/javascript, they add to the security/virus problems plaguing the web and are not necessary on a site like yours (or on 98% of the sites that do use them).
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Automatic music on a site is first of all a BIG no-no.
Saying that, I did like the music actually...
The site works fine for me OWD so im asuming you have been sticking jam in the slots of your computer again.
Your gallery link is always dead.
IMO: Get rid of the flashy animated menus and go back to good old HTML.
The email button at the top doesnt work either.
Automatic music on a site is first of all a BIG no-no.
Saying that, I did like the music actually...
The site works fine for me OWD so im asuming you have been sticking jam in the slots of your computer again.
Your gallery link is always dead.
IMO: Get rid of the flashy animated menus and go back to good old HTML.
The email button at the top doesnt work either.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
its due to parts of the site are done in flash from macromedia, and do take a long time to load,
i dont alsways agree on actix bans on site, some it looks good, as long as you remebre to set things up correctly, and sort out bugs first
i dont stick a sute online until its totlay finished, or unless its to a point where i dont have to touch it for at least 2 month sbefore an update, unless its a test site for all to see.
I agree with jon, like the flash pros say, 99% of all fash on the web is badly built and dont work correctly (info gathered from reading materials in my uni's libary)
its due to parts of the site are done in flash from macromedia, and do take a long time to load,
i dont alsways agree on actix bans on site, some it looks good, as long as you remebre to set things up correctly, and sort out bugs first
i dont stick a sute online until its totlay finished, or unless its to a point where i dont have to touch it for at least 2 month sbefore an update, unless its a test site for all to see.
I agree with jon, like the flash pros say, 99% of all fash on the web is badly built and dont work correctly (info gathered from reading materials in my uni's libary)
Step (el-nombrie)
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I've just checked the site on a community center PC with broadband and it works.
Reason it didn't work on mine is due to me having disabled Flash on webpages.
There's two types of web user, those like me who want to get info off the net, preferably from quick loading sites with text and basic images, without the security risks of unnecessary ActiveX/java/javascript; and those who are wanting some kind of stylish/interactive/experience type site.
The first kind will automatically not bother with this kind of site, they'll shut the page down because it won't work properly, or because it takes too long to load.
The second kind will probably love it.
I suspect that the sites designers are intending to appeal to the second kind of user.
Nevertheless, it can't hurt to know that there are issues with this approach to site building, and that some of us disagree with the current situation. Soon I will start a new thread on some of those issues.
Written by: Untimely Calculations Often Fail
The site works fine for me OWD so im asuming you have been sticking jam in the slots of your computer again.
I've just checked the site on a community center PC with broadband and it works.
Reason it didn't work on mine is due to me having disabled Flash on webpages.
There's two types of web user, those like me who want to get info off the net, preferably from quick loading sites with text and basic images, without the security risks of unnecessary ActiveX/java/javascript; and those who are wanting some kind of stylish/interactive/experience type site.
The first kind will automatically not bother with this kind of site, they'll shut the page down because it won't work properly, or because it takes too long to load.
The second kind will probably love it.
I suspect that the sites designers are intending to appeal to the second kind of user.
Nevertheless, it can't hurt to know that there are issues with this approach to site building, and that some of us disagree with the current situation. Soon I will start a new thread on some of those issues.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Nope.
I still reckon it was that jam.
Nope.
I still reckon it was that jam.
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Well if you read my post I said that this was just the start. We will have it finished before the new year. The only things up now are the main page, about, and most of the member pages. Thanks for the comments, great input.
Well if you read my post I said that this was just the start. We will have it finished before the new year. The only things up now are the main page, about, and most of the member pages. Thanks for the comments, great input.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
nice site, fast loading, could be layed out better image wise and the images could be more capturing of what it is that you do.
i spend most of my time on site designing forums than hop or my own site https://www.poiinthepark.net
or designing other sites for people or generally helping on codeing.
i like your site though and i do like the flash, i just dont like how the flash is called on every page, it should be faster, seems like it could be compressed more when the images were constructed in flash or imported.. as i dont know who it was made by or how i can not answer that.
nice effort.
dave you use opera right?.. i like opera but then i like to see images and grpahics when pages load... opera is far better for mobile devices so that you can get and do what you want quicker so that it doesnt cost you a small fortune from your airtime biller.
Opera for mobile, was a big help to me during the last year with out having net access i could still admin my site and servers from any where at any time.
did controlled burn do glastonbury last year? 2003!, there were some nice installations in the circus field and they look similar to yours.
nice site, fast loading, could be layed out better image wise and the images could be more capturing of what it is that you do.
i spend most of my time on site designing forums than hop or my own site https://www.poiinthepark.net
or designing other sites for people or generally helping on codeing.
i like your site though and i do like the flash, i just dont like how the flash is called on every page, it should be faster, seems like it could be compressed more when the images were constructed in flash or imported.. as i dont know who it was made by or how i can not answer that.
nice effort.
dave you use opera right?.. i like opera but then i like to see images and grpahics when pages load... opera is far better for mobile devices so that you can get and do what you want quicker so that it doesnt cost you a small fortune from your airtime biller.
Opera for mobile, was a big help to me during the last year with out having net access i could still admin my site and servers from any where at any time.
did controlled burn do glastonbury last year? 2003!, there were some nice installations in the circus field and they look similar to yours.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
no. it were 'the manhattan project'
but i can't find a link for obvious reasons....
no. it were 'the manhattan project'
but i can't find a link for obvious reasons....
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Thanks for the input I'll show this thread to my site designer. We do have many more pictures and even movies we want to put on here but the first step in getting people to DO SOMETHING was to get the site up. Now all the jhonny-come-latelies can add theire 2cents since the hard part is done. I want to show off all of our inventions, many of which I have not shown the HOP public yet.
Thanks for the input I'll show this thread to my site designer. We do have many more pictures and even movies we want to put on here but the first step in getting people to DO SOMETHING was to get the site up. Now all the jhonny-come-latelies can add theire 2cents since the hard part is done. I want to show off all of our inventions, many of which I have not shown the HOP public yet.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
No there aren't.
The site:
a good start with a good idea for the design - but the 'Controlled Burn' graphic needs to be about a third as high as it is - it's taking up half my screen and I've got 2 scroll bars (a big pet hate!) and I'm using 1024 resolution.
Use a Flash menu, but you can have it as a menu to the left and not taking up all the right hand side as well.
If you're using frames you're using them so that you don't have to reload the menu everytime so you need to fix this.
And your needs to be changed.<br><br>Hope the rest of it goes well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="smile"> </div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/1094' itemprop='url'><meta content='Dom' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439391"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/3683'>musashii</a><small><strong>starring Skippy the green llama<br></strong></small><small>1,148 posts<br>Location: Seattle, WA</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-14T20:23:52-06:00">14th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: onewheeldaveThe second kind will probably love it.I suspect that the sites designers are intending to appeal to the second kind of user.Don't most fire sites?? Or the ones who can afford it or know a talented designer eh. I'm going thru the same problem with my current troupe, doesn't it make sense to capture someone's attention especially if thats the line of work you're trying to sell? I think that you should have a lower broadband version with 'just the facts m'aam' for people on dialup or just looking for information(which sometimes happens to be people overseas eh), which would require some sort of splash page. I like splash pages myself, tho I know not everyone does.."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: onewheeldave<hr /><br><br>The second kind will probably love it.<br><br>I suspect that the sites designers are intending to appeal to the second kind of user.<br><br><br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>Don't most fire sites?? Or the ones who can afford it or know a talented designer eh. I'm going thru the same problem with my current troupe, doesn't it make sense to capture someone's attention especially if thats the line of work you're trying to sell? I think that you should have a lower broadband version with 'just the facts m'aam' for people on dialup or just looking for information(which sometimes happens to be people overseas eh), which would require some sort of splash page. I like splash pages myself, tho I know not everyone does.. <p style="color:#595959;">First intention, then enlightenment..<br>Ars Pyronomica<br><br>" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/3683' itemprop='url'><meta content='musashii' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439392"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/4853'>mech</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #724A22;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">BRONZE Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>6,207 posts<br>Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T03:19:30-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="which is what i did with mine, no fancy flash, no huge load systems, the most advanced part of my site is the DHTML i use of teh scroll update, and the pic viewerloads fast and well for all machine, and its XHTML compatable for the db i was going to add....">which is what i did with mine, no fancy flash, no huge load systems, the most advanced part of my site is the DHTML i use of teh scroll update, and the pic viewer<br><br>loads fast and well for all machine, and its XHTML compatable for the db i was going to add.... <p style="color:#595959;">Step (el-nombrie)</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/4853' itemprop='url'><meta content='mech' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439393"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/2895'>onewheeldave</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #996F00;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">GOLD Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,252 posts<br>Location: sheffield, United Kingdom</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T04:52:30-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: musashiiWritten by: onewheeldaveThe second kind will probably love it.I suspect that the sites designers are intending to appeal to the second kind of user.Don't most fire sites?? Or the ones who can afford it or know a talented designer eh. It depends on your intended audience.If that audience is some or all of the following- well off (with up-to-date systems), knowledgable about security, on broadband etc then yes, flashy/stylish sites are the way to go.If your intended audience includes people with old systems, less knowledgable about IT security, on dial-up etc, then there are issues with flashy/stylish sites that use Flash/java script/active-x.I do belive that the site in question is geared towards the former (so it's as it needs to be).However, I know that there's a lot of people here who stick up a site totally unaware of some very relevant issues that effectively mean that their site is not going to be seen by a significant minority of web users.Specifically, in using certain website design programs which will slip in javascript and active-x without the designer being aware of it, and without that javascript/active-x being at all necessary.What's the problem with unnecessary javascript and active-x?Simple, they are the means by which 99% of virus attacks/browser highjackings that originate from malicious web pages, gain access to your system.i.e. if there were NO javascript/active-x etc on the web, the vast majority of malicious code (viral, adware, spyware) would be rendered completely ineffective.A similar effect can be achieved by the user setting his/her IE settings to 'high'- the downside is that a lot of sites using javascript/active-x will then not display correctly, necessitating a lot of messing around with security settings and creating 'trusted zones' etc."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: musashii<hr /><br><br><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: onewheeldave<hr /><br><br>The second kind will probably love it.<br><br>I suspect that the sites designers are intending to appeal to the second kind of user.<br><br><br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>Don't most fire sites?? Or the ones who can afford it or know a talented designer eh. <br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>It depends on your intended audience.<br><br>If that audience is some or all of the following- well off (with up-to-date systems), knowledgable about security, on broadband etc then yes, flashy/stylish sites are the way to go.<br><br>If your intended audience includes people with old systems, less knowledgable about IT security, on dial-up etc, then there are issues with flashy/stylish sites that use Flash/java script/active-x.<br><br>I do belive that the site in question is geared towards the former (so it's as it needs to be).<br><br>However, I know that there's a lot of people here who stick up a site totally unaware of some very relevant issues that effectively mean that their site is not going to be seen by a significant minority of web users.<br><br>Specifically, in using certain website design programs which will slip in javascript and active-x without the designer being aware of it, and without that javascript/active-x being at all necessary.<br><br>What's the problem with unnecessary javascript and active-x?<br><br>Simple, they are the means by which 99% of virus attacks/browser highjackings that originate from malicious web pages, gain access to your system.<br><br>i.e. if there were NO javascript/active-x etc on the web, the vast majority of malicious code (viral, adware, spyware) would be rendered completely ineffective.<br><br>A similar effect can be achieved by the user setting his/her IE settings to 'high'- the downside is that a lot of sites using javascript/active-x will then not display correctly, necessitating a lot of messing around with security settings and creating 'trusted zones' etc. <p style="color:#595959;">"You can't outrun Death forever.<br>But you can make the Bastard work for it." <br><br>--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR, <br>"Last of The Lancers"<br>AFC 32<br><br><br>Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/2895' itemprop='url'><meta content='onewheeldave' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439394"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/1094'>Dom</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #724A22;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">BRONZE Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,009 posts<br>Location: Bristol, UK</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T09:45:11-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by:i.e. if there were NO javascript/active-x etc on the web, the vast majority of malicious code (viral, adware, spyware) would be rendered completely ineffective.If there were no computers there'd be no computer viruses! Throw your PC out of the window now! "><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by:<hr /><br>i.e. if there were NO javascript/active-x etc on the web, the vast majority of malicious code (viral, adware, spyware) would be rendered completely ineffective.<br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>If there were no computers there'd be no computer viruses! Throw your PC out of the window now! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="wink"> </div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/1094' itemprop='url'><meta content='Dom' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439395"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/5119'>rbmnyc</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #724A22;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">BRONZE Member</span><br><small><strong>lurker<br></strong></small><small>194 posts<br>Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T11:03:21-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="I have to back one wheel dave here ... as a user who most frequently uses their PC at work (oh - the horror!!) I know for a fact that a number of places LOST my business because I couldn't even get in their site ... I was trying to buy (oh! the horror!) a hula hoop when I first started, but at least three websites were completely unavailable to me because all i saw was "OBJECT tag removed EMBED tag removed " or some such text, and couldn't go any further. I finally decided to just figure out how to make my own hoops - but had these business owners and their web designers thought about users like me, they probably would've gotten my business. It's nice to be on the bleeding edge, and fun to be a designer doing that stuff - but just remember - you're going to put off some people that way. I'm only going to all this trouble cuz I really like you cody and am a big big big fan of controlled burn ... but I get the same message at your site - which is frustrating. Good luck.">I have to back one wheel dave here ... as a user who most frequently uses their PC at work (oh - the horror!!) I know for a fact that a number of places LOST my business because I couldn't even get in their site ... I was trying to buy (oh! the horror!) a hula hoop when I first started, but at least three websites were completely unavailable to me because all i saw was "OBJECT tag removed EMBED tag removed " or some such text, and couldn't go any further. I finally decided to just figure out how to make my own hoops - but had these business owners and their web designers thought about users like me, they probably would've gotten my business. It's nice to be on the bleeding edge, and fun to be a designer doing that stuff - but just remember - you're going to put off some people that way. I'm only going to all this trouble cuz I really like you cody and am a big big big fan of controlled burn ... but I get the same message at your site - which is frustrating. Good luck. </div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/5119' itemprop='url'><meta content='rbmnyc' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439396"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/2895'>onewheeldave</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #996F00;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">GOLD Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,252 posts<br>Location: sheffield, United Kingdom</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T11:50:15-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: rbmnycI have to back one wheel dave here ... as a user who most frequently uses their PC at work (oh - the horror!!) I know for a fact that a number of places LOST my business because I couldn't even get in their site ...Similar thing happened to me today- surfing the net looking to price up some stuff I did a search and opened up some pages, preparing to eliminate the inevitable 90% that would not be relevant.On one I got- 'One moment, the site is loading…This site requires JavaScript. If you see this message for more than 5 seconds, please check your browser settings and enable JavaScript.' So that was an immediate goodbye and one lost customer for them; do they seriously think I'm going to go to the trouble of switching down my security settings for a site I don't know (which could easily contain ad/spy/malware).It's interesting cos, up till now, this has been a gripe concerning my experiences on the net and trying to pass on some useful stuff to others in a similar position. But more and more it could actually be becoming a real issue for site owners who want to sell stuff because the malware floating around on the net is now so pervasive, and so difficult to combat, that, as awareness of these security issues grow, it could actually be worth while site designers taking it on board and making it a feature of their sites that they're-a. accessible to allb. quick to loadc. safe to visit (no unnecessary javascript/activeX etc)[to clafify, by unnecessary javascript I'm acknowledging that some forms of site do have valid use of it e.g. forums, some aspects of shops etc, but IMO its use in, for example links/navigation is pointless].I'm sure I'm not the only person who would rather go to-1. a simple, fast loading, safe (albeit visually unimpressive) site and get the info they want quickly and easily; as opposed to visiting-2. a multi-media extravagaza that looks like a spaceship console, has cubes that spin when your mouse goes over them for links, contains no useful info, takes 1/2 an hour and a download of Flash to kick off, and then deposits 17 cookies, some spyware and a virus on your hard drive."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: rbmnyc<hr /><br><br>I have to back one wheel dave here ... as a user who most frequently uses their PC at work (oh - the horror!!) I know for a fact that a number of places LOST my business because I couldn't even get in their site ...<br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>Similar thing happened to me today- surfing the net looking to price up some stuff I did a search and opened up some pages, preparing to eliminate the inevitable 90% that would not be relevant.<br><br>On one I got-<br><br> 'One moment, the site is loading…<br><br>This site requires JavaScript. If you see this message for more than 5 seconds, please check your browser settings and enable JavaScript.' <br><br><br>So that was an immediate goodbye and one lost customer for them; do they seriously think I'm going to go to the trouble of switching down my security settings for a site I don't know (which could easily contain ad/spy/malware).<br><br>It's interesting cos, up till now, this has been a gripe concerning my experiences on the net and trying to pass on some useful stuff to others in a similar position. <br><br>But more and more it could actually be becoming a real issue for site owners who want to sell stuff because the malware floating around on the net is now so pervasive, and so difficult to combat, that, as awareness of these security issues grow, it could actually be worth while site designers taking it on board and making it a feature of their sites that they're-<br><br>a. accessible to all<br>b. quick to load<br>c. safe to visit (no unnecessary javascript/activeX etc)<br><br>[to clafify, by unnecessary javascript I'm acknowledging that some forms of site do have valid use of it e.g. forums, some aspects of shops etc, but IMO its use in, for example links/navigation is pointless].<br><br>I'm sure I'm not the only person who would rather go to-<br><br>1. a simple, fast loading, safe (albeit visually unimpressive) site and get the info they want quickly and easily; as opposed to visiting-<br><br>2. a multi-media extravagaza that looks like a spaceship console, has cubes that spin when your mouse goes over them for links, contains no useful info, takes 1/2 an hour and a download of Flash to kick off, and then deposits 17 cookies, some spyware and a virus on your hard drive. <p style="color:#595959;">"You can't outrun Death forever.<br>But you can make the Bastard work for it." <br><br>--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR, <br>"Last of The Lancers"<br>AFC 32<br><br><br>Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/2895' itemprop='url'><meta content='onewheeldave' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439397"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/3686'>bluecat</a><small><strong>geek, level 1<br></strong></small><small>5,300 posts<br>Location: everywhere</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T12:19:24-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="not the only one, but most, in fact all except you guys, and two other of my friends do it this way. i wouldn't call that a significant minority.i think they probably get more business from having a flashy website than they lose by being javascript.but i don't have any figures so this'll have to remain pure speculation....">not the only one, but most, in fact all except you guys, and two other of my friends do it this way. <br><br>i wouldn't call that a significant minority.<br><br>i think they probably get more business from having a flashy website than they lose by being javascript.<br><br>but i don't have any figures so this'll have to remain pure speculation.... <p style="color:#595959;">Holistic Spinner (I hope)</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/3686' itemprop='url'><meta content='bluecat' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439398"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/5666'>Cody</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #575757;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">SILVER Member</span><br><small><strong>That guy from Reno<br></strong></small><small>556 posts<br>Location: Reno, Nevada USA</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T14:31:46-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Well I asked for opinions and I got them. My goal wasn't to start a fight but what the heck. Written by: (albeit visually unimpressive) We would be fire performers which is kind of all about being visually impressive, we want our site to reflect that as well.We are not concerned about loosing customers because were not selling anything. Our site is special interest and independently funded.Note that we are taking all of your comments to heart and will probably come up with a compromise so all can access the site. ">Well I asked for opinions and I got them. My goal wasn't to start a fight but what the heck.<br> <blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by:<hr /><br> (albeit visually unimpressive) <br><br><hr /></blockquote> <br><br>We would be fire performers which is kind of all about being visually impressive, we want our site to reflect that as well.<br><br>We are not concerned about loosing customers because were not selling anything. Our site is special interest and independently funded.<br><br>Note that we are taking all of your comments to heart and will probably come up with a compromise so all can access the site. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="biggrin"> <p style="color:#595959;">Cody Canon<br>Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/5666' itemprop='url'><meta content='Cody' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439399"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/5119'>rbmnyc</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #724A22;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">BRONZE Member</span><br><small><strong>lurker<br></strong></small><small>194 posts<br>Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T15:45:44-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="wasn't meant to be a fight or to hurt your feelings ... jsut something that irks me occasionally. i prefer simple, quick to download websites with information on them rather than visually stunning ... but if that's not your purpose - and visually stunning is - then so be it!xoxo">wasn't meant to be a fight or to hurt your feelings ... jsut something that irks me occasionally. i prefer simple, quick to download websites with information on them rather than visually stunning ... but if that's not your purpose - and visually stunning is - then so be it!<br><br>xoxo </div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/5119' itemprop='url'><meta content='rbmnyc' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439400"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/3683'>musashii</a><small><strong>starring Skippy the green llama<br></strong></small><small>1,148 posts<br>Location: Seattle, WA</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T16:13:16-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="go back to Gopher, the web's made for multimedia natch, and it's only getting better And there are plenty of websites with information AND are visually stunning ">go back to Gopher, the web's made for multimedia natch, and it's only getting better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="biggrin"><br><br>And there are plenty of websites with information AND are visually stunning <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes"> <p style="color:#595959;">First intention, then enlightenment..<br>Ars Pyronomica<br><br>" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/3683' itemprop='url'><meta content='musashii' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439401"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/2895'>onewheeldave</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #996F00;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">GOLD Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,252 posts<br>Location: sheffield, United Kingdom</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T18:29:51-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="The web was made for spreading information and accessibility.There's no necessity for conflict here, currently there's room on the web for both simple, accessible, information based sites, and for flashy, visual ones that require the extra downloads etc.But you shouldn't stick your head in the sand and pretend there aren't some issues based on accessibility and security with some of those flashy sites, or make out that a simple site is less worthy.Obviously I've made my mind up on this- for me flashy sites that insist on using javascript unnecessarily, or activeX or Flash etc won't be getting many visits from me.I also will continue to raise awareness of the security issues i.e. that when someone has their system trashed by malware the causal factors in that trashing are not solely the perpetuators of viruses/malware; equally responsible is the current prevelance of javascript/activeX.It would also be nice if search engines identified flash sites using javascript/activeX in the way that they currently identify PDF files (which I also don't bother looking at) so those of us not interested in such sites can avoid wasting time visiting them.Freedom and choice are good.">The web was made for spreading information and accessibility.<br><br>There's no necessity for conflict here, currently there's room on the web for both simple, accessible, information based sites, and for flashy, visual ones that require the extra downloads etc.<br><br>But you shouldn't stick your head in the sand and pretend there aren't some issues based on accessibility and security with some of those flashy sites, or make out that a simple site is less worthy.<br><br>Obviously I've made my mind up on this- for me flashy sites that insist on using javascript unnecessarily, or activeX or Flash etc won't be getting many visits from me.<br><br>I also will continue to raise awareness of the security issues i.e. that when someone has their system trashed by malware the causal factors in that trashing are not solely the perpetuators of viruses/malware; equally responsible is the current prevelance of javascript/activeX.<br><br>It would also be nice if search engines identified flash sites using javascript/activeX in the way that they currently identify PDF files (which I also don't bother looking at) so those of us not interested in such sites can avoid wasting time visiting them.<br><br>Freedom and choice are good. <p style="color:#595959;">"You can't outrun Death forever.<br>But you can make the Bastard work for it." <br><br>--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR, <br>"Last of The Lancers"<br>AFC 32<br><br><br>Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/2895' itemprop='url'><meta content='onewheeldave' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439402"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/3683'>musashii</a><small><strong>starring Skippy the green llama<br></strong></small><small>1,148 posts<br>Location: Seattle, WA</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T18:57:30-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: onewheeldaveThe web was made for spreading information and accessibility.There's no necessity for conflict here, currently there's room on the web for both simple, accessible, information based sites, and for flashy, visual ones that require the extra downloads etc.But you shouldn't stick your head in the sand and pretend there aren't some issues based on accessibility and security with some of those flashy sites, or make out that a simple site is less worthy.Obviously I've made my mind up on this- for me flashy sites that insist on using javascript unnecessarily, or activeX or Flash etc won't be getting many visits from me.I also will continue to raise awareness of the security issues i.e. that when someone has their system trashed by malware the causal factors in that trashing are not solely the perpetuators of viruses/malware; equally responsible is the current prevelance of javascript/activeX.It would also be nice if search engines identified flash sites using javascript/activeX in the way that they currently identify PDF files (which I also don't bother looking at) so those of us not interested in such sites can avoid wasting time visiting them.Freedom and choice are good. very true, and that's really what the web is honestly about. I understand exactly where you guys are coming from, my first 4 years online was strictly text based(gopher was really replaced rather quickly, tho I do remember using it, used Lynx forever, and telnet for msgboards and MUDs/MUSHes, PINE for email, all from a 286 ). I just think we've progressed beyond that. And honestly being a designer trying to push the limits of the web, it irks me in no small way to hear that things I put alot of hard work into are considered a waste of time(but I don't really take it personally eh). One of the biggest reasons I use flash is a common animation/effects platform. I can do anything with DHTML that I can with Flash, but it would take 3 times the effort to make it compatible with all browsers today. Also of mention is the fact that not every site has to have cutting edge animations or effects to be useful, but we could discuss form over function for days. It all comes down to the goals of a site, who it's intended audience is, and what content the site is displaying. These days on the web I think, because the outlet is there, form has become just as important as function, if not more. The business model of the web is to keep a users attention, and yeah, good content will always outlive/outlast good design, but because the average web users attention span is so limited, you have to up the bar a little. I know what you're saying about the security holes as well, it's really a shame that more standards in code signing(client side as well as activeX controls) can't be implemented, I think that would resolve an immense number of security problems right there."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: onewheeldave<hr /><br><br>The web was made for spreading information and accessibility.<br><br>There's no necessity for conflict here, currently there's room on the web for both simple, accessible, information based sites, and for flashy, visual ones that require the extra downloads etc.<br><br>But you shouldn't stick your head in the sand and pretend there aren't some issues based on accessibility and security with some of those flashy sites, or make out that a simple site is less worthy.<br><br>Obviously I've made my mind up on this- for me flashy sites that insist on using javascript unnecessarily, or activeX or Flash etc won't be getting many visits from me.<br><br>I also will continue to raise awareness of the security issues i.e. that when someone has their system trashed by malware the causal factors in that trashing are not solely the perpetuators of viruses/malware; equally responsible is the current prevelance of javascript/activeX.<br><br>It would also be nice if search engines identified flash sites using javascript/activeX in the way that they currently identify PDF files (which I also don't bother looking at) so those of us not interested in such sites can avoid wasting time visiting them.<br><br>Freedom and choice are good. <br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>very true, and that's really what the web is honestly about. I understand exactly where you guys are coming from, my first 4 years online was strictly text based(gopher was really replaced rather quickly, tho I do remember using it, used Lynx forever, and telnet for msgboards and MUDs/MUSHes, PINE for email, all from a 286 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubblol.gif" alt="ubblol"> ). I just think we've progressed beyond that. And honestly being a designer trying to push the limits of the web, it irks me in no small way to hear that things I put alot of hard work into are considered a waste of time(but I don't really take it personally eh). One of the biggest reasons I use flash is a common animation/effects platform. I can do anything with DHTML that I can with Flash, but it would take 3 times the effort to make it compatible with all browsers today. Also of mention is the fact that not every site has to have cutting edge animations or effects to be useful, but we could discuss form over function for days. It all comes down to the goals of a site, who it's intended audience is, and what content the site is displaying. These days on the web I think, because the outlet is there, form has become just as important as function, if not more. The business model of the web is to keep a users attention, and yeah, good content will always outlive/outlast good design, but because the average web users attention span is so limited, you have to up the bar a little. <br><br>I know what you're saying about the security holes as well, it's really a shame that more standards in code signing(client side as well as activeX controls) can't be implemented, I think that would resolve an immense number of security problems right there. <p style="color:#595959;">First intention, then enlightenment..<br>Ars Pyronomica<br><br>" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/3683' itemprop='url'><meta content='musashii' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439403"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/2895'>onewheeldave</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #996F00;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">GOLD Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,252 posts<br>Location: sheffield, United Kingdom</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T19:23:43-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: musashiiI just think we've progressed beyond that. And honestly being a designer trying to push the limits of the web, it irks me in no small way to hear that things I put alot of hard work into are considered a waste of time...............................I know what you're saying about the security holes as well, it's really a shame that more standards in code signing(client side as well as activeX controls) can't be implemented, I think that would resolve an immense number of security problems right there. I didn't mean to imply that those who design flashy/visual/non-simple sites are a waste of time.It's simply that I'm in a position of being on dial-up, on a fairly basic computer and am concerned about the security issues of Jscript/activeX.In addition, by far my main interest in surfing the web is for information. To put it bluntly, if I'm in need of audio/visual stimulation I'll go into the world and spin/unicycle etc, rather than look for it on a PC The end result is that if I can identify a site as being complex/using Jscript/activeX etc, then I'll avoid it because I know I can spend the time opening up ten other quick loading sites with the info I'm looking for.However, there's plenty of others out there who want to browse the complex/stylish type sites- it's not a waste of time for them."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: musashii<hr /><br><br><br><br>I just think we've progressed beyond that. And honestly being a designer trying to push the limits of the web, it irks me in no small way to hear that things I put alot of hard work into are considered a waste of time....................<br><br>...........I know what you're saying about the security holes as well, it's really a shame that more standards in code signing(client side as well as activeX controls) can't be implemented, I think that would resolve an immense number of security problems right there. <br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>I didn't mean to imply that those who design flashy/visual/non-simple sites are a waste of time.<br><br>It's simply that I'm in a position of being on dial-up, on a fairly basic computer and am concerned about the security issues of Jscript/activeX.<br><br>In addition, by far my main interest in surfing the web is for information. To put it bluntly, if I'm in need of audio/visual stimulation I'll go into the world and spin/unicycle etc, rather than look for it on a PC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="smile"><br><br>The end result is that if I can identify a site as being complex/using Jscript/activeX etc, then I'll avoid it because I know I can spend the time opening up ten other quick loading sites with the info I'm looking for.<br><br>However, there's plenty of others out there who want to browse the complex/stylish type sites- it's not a waste of time for them. <p style="color:#595959;">"You can't outrun Death forever.<br>But you can make the Bastard work for it." <br><br>--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR, <br>"Last of The Lancers"<br>AFC 32<br><br><br>Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/2895' itemprop='url'><meta content='onewheeldave' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439404"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/3683'>musashii</a><small><strong>starring Skippy the green llama<br></strong></small><small>1,148 posts<br>Location: Seattle, WA</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-15T19:41:20-06:00">15th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="fair enough Nothing wrong with being security conscious, I use a couple of different pieces of software along with setting up my own security settings in my browser, has done the trick so far..I get these interesting 'Access denied' error messages on more than a few websites, usually that's my sign to leave.">fair enough <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="wink"> Nothing wrong with being security conscious, I use a couple of different pieces of software along with setting up my own security settings in my browser, has done the trick so far..I get these interesting 'Access denied' error messages on more than a few websites, usually that's my sign to leave. <p style="color:#595959;">First intention, then enlightenment..<br>Ars Pyronomica<br><br>" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/3683' itemprop='url'><meta content='musashii' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439405"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/1094'>Dom</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #724A22;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">BRONZE Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,009 posts<br>Location: Bristol, UK</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-16T10:55:26-06:00">16th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Can of worms indeed..."equally responsible is the current prevelance of javascript/activeX."Maybe this is just personal perception, but I think the word equally there is wrong and you're being overly paranoid - there are very few malicious web sites on the web and in your daily surfing you're very unlikely to come across one.If you've got an up to date virus killer and don't click links in emails and random web sites to get to your online bank and online stores then you're safe from all but the newest and cleverest viruses and scams.If speed and usability are your reasons for avoiding JavaScript and Flash then you might be shotting yourself in the foot in some instances. Using Flash and client-side scripting can make site simplier and faster. I've seen and built site that run on Flash and once a lightweight Flash movie or page is loaded Flash or scripting can be used to get text data from the server in a much lighter form that loading another page of HTML.">Can of worms indeed...<br><br>"equally responsible is the current prevelance of javascript/activeX."<br>Maybe this is just personal perception, but I think the word equally there is wrong and you're being overly paranoid - there are very few malicious web sites on the web and in your daily surfing you're very unlikely to come across one.<br>If you've got an up to date virus killer and don't click links in emails and random web sites to get to your online bank and online stores then you're safe from all but the newest and cleverest viruses and scams.<br><br>If speed and usability are your reasons for avoiding JavaScript and Flash then you might be shotting yourself in the foot in some instances. Using Flash and client-side scripting can make site simplier and faster. I've seen and built site that run on Flash and once a lightweight Flash movie or page is loaded Flash or scripting can be used to get text data from the server in a much lighter form that loading another page of HTML. </div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/1094' itemprop='url'><meta content='Dom' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439406"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/2895'>onewheeldave</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #996F00;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">GOLD Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,252 posts<br>Location: sheffield, United Kingdom</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-16T15:58:00-06:00">16th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: DomCan of worms indeed..."equally responsible is the current prevelance of javascript/activeX."Maybe this is just personal perception, but I think the word equally there is wrong and you're being overly paranoidI stand by the word 'equally' on the grounds that it takes both a malicious code creator (virus creator) and a means by which that code can attack your system (eg ActiveX/Javascript [whilst acknowledging that they're not the only ways as IE has various exploitable loopholes, I think it's fair to say that ActiveX/Javascript are involved in the majority of attacks]).In particular I use the word 'equally' because most people are under the impression that virus creators/hackers are soley responsible for malware attacks, IMO it's very valuable to illuminate them with the fact that JS/activeX are in fact necessary for those attacks.If only because it is empowering i.e. there's not really anything you can do about the existence of malware producers, but, by disabling Javascript/ActiveX etc you can stop dead 98% of those attacks.Written by: Domthere are very few malicious web sites on the web I'm surprised you say that. There's a lot of people who've had their systems totally trashed by malware. There's thousands who've been the victims of dial-ups that result in them having phone bills of thousands of pounds/dollars, which they legally have to pay.Dom, I expect you're well up on security, with a up-to-date system, ad/spy/malware detection software and a great deal of knowledge.Many don't have the knowledge, time, money etc- and they wonder onto the net ready to be fleeced (for example, a lot of people don't even update the virus definitions of their anti-virus software).The web is rife with malware, a fair percentage of even normal sites will put ad/spy ware on your system. Even if you have the knowledge to remove it, more and more it's designed to hack the registery so it re-appears on boot-up.Check the 'CoolWebSearch' chronicles here-https://cwshredder.net/cwshredder/cwschronicles.htmlto see what's out there.[some quotes- 'However, the file hooked into the Winsock LSP chain, which lies very deep into the bowels of Windows and is one of the hardest parts of Windows to manipulate. Only a very small selection of spyware used this method of infection, and incorrect removal left a computer with a broken Internet connection that could not be fixed even by reinstalling Windows'..........Perhaps the most widely spread variant of CoolWebSearch, this one was a nightmare for the average user. It combined several hijacking methods, along with random redirections to porn pages, portals and even adult dialers.The hijack covered most of IE, and a user was left to sit helplessly and watch as almost his every move was redirected to vrape.hardloved.com.....]Then of course there's millions of porn sites with dial-ups etc. It's easy to say 'don't vist porn sites', but then reflect on the times people are directed to them by innocent looking sites- is there anyone here who's not at some point had porn popping up when innocently surfing the web?Some of those sites, if your security settings are allowing JS/activeX can, in milliseconds, change your homepage, hack your registery to make it virtually impossible to eradicate the changes and install a dial-up."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: Dom<hr /><br><br>Can of worms indeed...<br><br>"equally responsible is the current prevelance of javascript/activeX."<br>Maybe this is just personal perception, but I think the word equally there is wrong and you're being overly paranoid<br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>I stand by the word 'equally' on the grounds that it takes both a malicious code creator (virus creator) and a means by which that code can attack your system (eg ActiveX/Javascript [whilst acknowledging that they're not the only ways as IE has various exploitable loopholes, I think it's fair to say that ActiveX/Javascript are involved in the majority of attacks]).<br><br>In particular I use the word 'equally' because most people are under the impression that virus creators/hackers are soley responsible for malware attacks, IMO it's very valuable to illuminate them with the fact that JS/activeX are in fact necessary for those attacks.<br><br>If only because it is empowering i.e. there's not really anything you can do about the existence of malware producers, but, by disabling Javascript/ActiveX etc you can stop dead 98% of those attacks.<br><br><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: Dom<hr /><br><br><br>there are very few malicious web sites on the web <br><br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br><br><br>I'm surprised you say that. There's a lot of people who've had their systems totally trashed by malware. There's thousands who've been the victims of dial-ups that result in them having phone bills of thousands of pounds/dollars, which they legally have to pay.<br><br>Dom, I expect you're well up on security, with a up-to-date system, ad/spy/malware detection software and a great deal of knowledge.<br><br>Many don't have the knowledge, time, money etc- and they wonder onto the net ready to be fleeced (for example, a lot of people don't even update the virus definitions of their anti-virus software).<br><br>The web is rife with malware, a fair percentage of even normal sites will put ad/spy ware on your system. Even if you have the knowledge to remove it, more and more it's designed to hack the registery so it re-appears on boot-up.<br><br>Check the 'CoolWebSearch' chronicles here-<br><br><a href="https://cwshredder.net/cwshredder/cwschronicles.html" target="_blank">https://cwshredder.net/cwshredder/cwschronicles.html</a><br><br>to see what's out there.<br><br>[some quotes- 'However, the file hooked into the Winsock LSP chain, which lies very deep into the bowels of Windows and is one of the hardest parts of Windows to manipulate. Only a very small selection of spyware used this method of infection, and incorrect removal left a computer with a broken Internet connection that could not be fixed even by reinstalling Windows'.....<br><br>.....Perhaps the most widely spread variant of CoolWebSearch, this one was a nightmare for the average user. It combined several hijacking methods, along with random redirections to porn pages, portals and even adult dialers.<br><br>The hijack covered most of IE, and a user was left to sit helplessly and watch as almost his every move was redirected to vrape.hardloved.com.....]<br><br><br><br>Then of course there's millions of porn sites with dial-ups etc. It's easy to say 'don't vist porn sites', but then reflect on the times people are directed to them by innocent looking sites- is there anyone here who's not at some point had porn popping up when innocently surfing the web?<br><br>Some of those sites, if your security settings are allowing JS/activeX can, in milliseconds, change your homepage, hack your registery to make it virtually impossible to eradicate the changes and install a dial-up. <p style="color:#595959;">"You can't outrun Death forever.<br>But you can make the Bastard work for it." <br><br>--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR, <br>"Last of The Lancers"<br>AFC 32<br><br><br>Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/2895' itemprop='url'><meta content='onewheeldave' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439407"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/1094'>Dom</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #724A22;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">BRONZE Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,009 posts<br>Location: Bristol, UK</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-16T17:39:41-06:00">16th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="CoolWebSearch is an extreme example of malware.Yes, thousands do get stung but millions don't.I see it kinda like walking through an unknown city. Walk down the dark alleyways in the dodgest areas waving a flashy wallet and the likely hood of something bad happening increases. People who don't have anti-virus software installed are doing themselves and others no favours.However in the case of computers the software manufacturers (such as Microsoft) should be doing a lot better job than they actually are. The security features in XP Service Pack 2 were too little too late."Equally" - it's easy to name 10 high risk viruses that rely on people downloading or being emailed a file and running it. It's harder to name 10 similar, high risk ActiveX viruses or exploits.">CoolWebSearch is an extreme example of malware.<br><br>Yes, thousands do get stung but millions don't.<br>I see it kinda like walking through an unknown city. Walk down the dark alleyways in the dodgest areas waving a flashy wallet and the likely hood of something bad happening increases. People who don't have anti-virus software installed are doing themselves and others no favours.<br><br>However in the case of computers the software manufacturers (such as Microsoft) should be doing a lot better job than they actually are. The security features in XP Service Pack 2 were too little too late.<br><br>"Equally" - it's easy to name 10 high risk viruses that rely on people downloading or being emailed a file and running it. It's harder to name 10 similar, high risk ActiveX viruses or exploits. </div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/1094' itemprop='url'><meta content='Dom' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439408"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/3683'>musashii</a><small><strong>starring Skippy the green llama<br></strong></small><small>1,148 posts<br>Location: Seattle, WA</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-16T23:09:44-06:00">16th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: Dom Using Flash and client-side scripting can make site simplier and faster. I've seen and built site that run on Flash and once a lightweight Flash movie or page is loaded Flash or scripting can be used to get text data from the server in a much lighter form that loading another page of HTML. thats another big selling point for flash for me as well, a working xml parser that runs on mozilla and ie. And a pretty clean crossbrowser asynch model for building pages for that matter."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: Dom<hr /><br><br> Using Flash and client-side scripting can make site simplier and faster. I've seen and built site that run on Flash and once a lightweight Flash movie or page is loaded Flash or scripting can be used to get text data from the server in a much lighter form that loading another page of HTML. <br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>thats another big selling point for flash for me as well, a working xml parser that runs on mozilla and ie. And a pretty clean crossbrowser asynch model for building pages for that matter. <p style="color:#595959;">First intention, then enlightenment..<br>Ars Pyronomica<br><br>" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/3683' itemprop='url'><meta content='musashii' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439409"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/2895'>onewheeldave</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #996F00;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">GOLD Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,252 posts<br>Location: sheffield, United Kingdom</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-17T02:42:01-06:00">17th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: DomHowever in the case of computers the software manufacturers (such as Microsoft) should be doing a lot better job than they actually are...........I totally agree. IMO microsofts attitude to IE security issues which is to let them run till a specific attack arises, and then issue security patches; is, along with virus creators and javascript/activeX, the third causal factor that is letting this stuff happen.I'd much rather they emphasised making the browser highly resistant to attacks in general, than waiting for disasters to occur then patching them.If only because there's always an outside chance that those patches will themselves trash your system (and I speak from experience on that one)."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: Dom<hr /><br><br><br>However in the case of computers the software manufacturers (such as Microsoft) should be doing a lot better job than they actually are...........<br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>I totally agree. IMO microsofts attitude to IE security issues which is to let them run till a specific attack arises, and then issue security patches; is, along with virus creators and javascript/activeX, the third causal factor that is letting this stuff happen.<br><br>I'd much rather they emphasised making the browser highly resistant to attacks in general, than waiting for disasters to occur then patching them.<br><br>If only because there's always an outside chance that those patches will themselves trash your system (and I speak from experience on that one). <p style="color:#595959;">"You can't outrun Death forever.<br>But you can make the Bastard work for it." <br><br>--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR, <br>"Last of The Lancers"<br>AFC 32<br><br><br>Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/2895' itemprop='url'><meta content='onewheeldave' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Comment"><div class="row" id="439410"><div class="span2"><a style='display: block; overflow:hidden; white-space:nowrap;' href='/us/community/forums/users/2895'>onewheeldave</a><span class="membership" style="background-color: #996F00;" href="https://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/hop-points.php">GOLD Member</span><br><small><strong>Carpal \'Tunnel<br></strong></small><small>3,252 posts<br>Location: sheffield, United Kingdom</small><br><br></div><div class="span10"><small style="color:#595959">Posted: <time itemprop="datePublished dateModified" class="timeago" datetime="2004-12-17T02:50:18-06:00">17th Dec 2004</time></small><br><meta itemprop="comment" content="Written by: DomCoolWebSearch is an extreme example of malware.Yes, thousands do get stung but millions don't.I still disagree on that. Like I said before, maybe it's because you and the people you know have up-to-date systems with suites of anti-malware software and the knowledge of how to use it.I'd say that the majority of web users have at least something on their system that they didn't put there (ad/spyware).It comes bundled with a lot of freee downloads and can be installed easily off visited pages.Certainly, if I set my spy/ad ware blocker to give alerts, I'll see that it's having to block stuff on at least 10% of sites.As for the really bad stuff, most of the people I know have had either a virus attack serious enough to require re-installing the o/s, a trashed system, registery hacks that take away their security tabs etc.And that's the knowledgable ones; I'm meeting a lot of people down the communtiy computer centers who have no knowlegde of security settings, virus updates etc."><blockquote class='blockquote'>Written by: Dom<hr /><br><br>CoolWebSearch is an extreme example of malware.<br><br>Yes, thousands do get stung but millions don't.<br><br><br><br><hr /></blockquote><br><br>I still disagree on that. Like I said before, maybe it's because you and the people you know have up-to-date systems with suites of anti-malware software and the knowledge of how to use it.<br><br>I'd say that the majority of web users have at least something on their system that they didn't put there (ad/spyware).<br><br>It comes bundled with a lot of freee downloads and can be installed easily off visited pages.<br><br>Certainly, if I set my spy/ad ware blocker to give alerts, I'll see that it's having to block stuff on at least 10% of sites.<br><br>As for the really bad stuff, most of the people I know have had either a virus attack serious enough to require re-installing the o/s, a trashed system, registery hacks that take away their security tabs etc.<br><br>And that's the knowledgable ones; I'm meeting a lot of people down the communtiy computer centers who have no knowlegde of security settings, virus updates etc. <p style="color:#595959;">"You can't outrun Death forever.<br>But you can make the Bastard work for it." <br><br>--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR, <br>"Last of The Lancers"<br>AFC 32<br><br><br>Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!</p></div></div><div class="row"><div class="span12"><hr></div></div><span itemprop='author' itemscope='itemscope' itemtype='http://schema.org/Person'><meta content='/us/community/forums/users/2895' itemprop='url'><meta content='onewheeldave' itemprop='additionalName'></span></div><div class="row" style="position:relative;top:-10px"><div class="span12 text-center"><span style='position:relative;top:7px'>Page: </span><span itemprop="pagination"><a itemprop="url" class="btn btn-small btn-padding btn-brown" href="/us/community/forums/topics/439380/Controlled-Burn-Website"><u>1</u></a></span><span itemprop="pagination"><a itemprop="url" class="btn btn-small btn-padding btn-brown" href="/us/community/forums/topics/439380/2/Controlled-Burn-Website">2</a></span></div></div> <div class="row">
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Written by: onewheeldave
There's two types of web user...
No there aren't.
The site:
a good start with a good idea for the design - but the 'Controlled Burn' graphic needs to be about a third as high as it is - it's taking up half my screen and I've got 2 scroll bars (a big pet hate!) and I'm using 1024 resolution.
Use a Flash menu, but you can have it as a menu to the left and not taking up all the right hand side as well.
If you're using frames you're using them so that you don't have to reload the menu everytime so you need to fix this.
And your