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Forums > Social Discussion > ego, firespinning and performing

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:so everyone takes something different from firespinning and does it for different reasons. ive met alot of spinners especially in the last 6 months while travelling as a result my standard of what i consider to be good is quite high (not that its about being good but just that it takes quite alot to impress me as far as technical skills go)

i understand that performers do what they do for a living so their reputation is part of their living, still something inside of me jars when i read things that are totally ludicris like

world's largest flaming fire staffs (6 feet long with 2 feet of wicking on both ends)
twirling speeds up to 90 m.p.h.

i suppose these sort of statements being just ludicris can be simply laughed at

when i read stuff like

his flexibility allows him to perform unparalleled tricks around his body
of the impish, chaotic style only he is master of
attained his status as a master of the fire arts
his flexibility and speed are without equal
conjures up the souls of ancient ritual dancers and powerful warriors to inhabit his staff

for some reason it just jars with me. if the videos from the site past and present had reflected this id have been on a plane to go visit but they dont.

but heres the thing

flameoz for example their bios are quite light hearted and dont make outrages claims but they are all excellent performer who do a great show

tepooka doesnt have individual bios but as a organisation, thing is though their claims are justified as their shows are spectular as can be seen in their videos

"Spectacular fire-shows featuring fire spinning, fire eating, fire breathing set against exploding pyrotechnic backdrops and original musical scores. Outrageous stilt walking, sensational street theatre, pyrotechnic mayhem and live drumming"

of all the spinners ive met all of the ones i would consider to be really good are very humble (except knox cos hes totally rubbish hug)

so im just wondering what other ppl think about the whole ego thing relating to performing and spinning in general.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
Posted:IPoispinning is for me way to express myself, so ego is included. smile

POI THEO(R)IST

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mico
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

mico

freedom in chains
Location: San Francisco & Oxford, United...

Total posts: 176
Posted:Written by: Mynci

...not deserving one would be like saying no-one deserves a sense of self...


A sense of self comes for free - an ego you have to work on wink

Written by: Mynci
without any ego it would be pretty hard to function not believing you could do ANYTHING...


I've never equated ego with self belief. But thinking about it, I'm not sure what I mean
by ego...perhaps just that loss of perspective that comes through self fixation?


~peace is a fire~

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mico
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

mico

freedom in chains
Location: San Francisco & Oxford, United...

Total posts: 176
Posted:Written by: Richee

IPoispinning is for me way to express myself, so ego is included. smile



Is that a subliminal I that crept in there?

biggrin


~peace is a fire~

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:wikipedia definition of the ego


this should tell you what some people mean when talking about 'ego', which has changed in meaning since freuds definition.

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:i like my ego. It purrs when people stroke it.

"having an inflated ego" is quite seperate from "acting like a tosser"

though they often go hand in hand.

Surely having high self-esteem can't be regarded as a bad thing per se?

and hype is good because its funny ubblol


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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TinklePants
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, Unit...

Total posts: 4217
Posted:ego is just too much self-esteem and self-loving (oooh self-loving... mmmmm ubblol)
A little ego is good but too much will get the crap beaten into you!!!


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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mico
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

mico

freedom in chains
Location: San Francisco & Oxford, United...

Total posts: 176
Posted:Written by: simian

i like my ego. It purrs when people stroke it.




But - what happens when you stroke it?

('cos I don't know wink)


~peace is a fire~

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Groovy_Dream
SILVER Member since May 2005

Groovy_Dream

addict
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 449
Posted:Written by: Tomm

i'm not actually very good, in the grand scheme of things, so i see things from the opposite point of view to most of you guys.

When i'm spinning with a group, there is always at least one guy (nearly always a guy!) who is blatantly loving themself, getting a buzz from being better than the rest; liking to think they have an audience even tho they're just practising.

And i don't kno; they just don't seem to have as much fun as the people who take it less seriously. if you ever see the look on one of these characters' faces when they mess a move up, you'll know what i mean.

The main reason I like to spin is the almost Zen sense of calm it brings to me. Showing your skills off in front of a crowd is fun, givs u a real ego boost, but i think if that's the only reason you do it then doesn't all the fun go out of just spinning in a park with friends, or in your garden alone??



^^agrees. Sometimes i twirl fireworks which gets a huge response from the crowd. Sure it's a bit of an adrenaline rush, but really it doesn't involve much skill and doesn't even compare to, say, twirling alone atop a mountain.

Something that i've noticed is that your skill in firespinning doesn't really influence the respect people have for you nearly as much as social skills, generosity, how much you have in common etc.... so there isn't much point showing off anyway.

Here's a twist: it's far more enjoyable to come up with a move in private, thinking that it'll impress people (even if it won't!), than actually showing the move off. Egocentric or not????

Oh and keep in mind that what looks good to you might not be the same as what looks good to someone who knows nothing about twirling.... our tastes do evolve.


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by:
When i'm spinning with a group, there is always at least one guy (nearly always a guy!) who is blatantly loving themself, getting a buzz from being better than the rest; liking to think they have an audience even tho they're just practising.





umm



Why shouldn't someone gain pleasure from their abilities, and from displaying them?



How much of your negative feeling stems from jealousy? eg: The only aspect of the spinner's behaviour that causes this negativity is their level of skill. If it were lower, and they acted in the same way, would you still have an issue with them?



What are the factors in their behaviour that cause offense? If they are unfriendly or antisocial toward you in some way then thats a seperate matter from how they spin for you.



What does this mean? If you're good at spinning, you have to hide it? confused



I find those views quite offensive actually. The crass mediocre attitude that "showing off" is somehow a bad thing really rankles with me. If someone is good at something then i want to see it, not have them hide behind a tree for the fear of small minded jealous onlookers.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:I like me....I'm so purdy....

My ego harms no-one. I put no-one down and it makes me feel good when I spin Vlad around (such an ego I named my staff ubblol )
I find that it makes me try harder to please others. once spinning in brighton i was paid a huge compliment. Yes it boosted my ego but I just said thanks and carried on, feeling a lot better about myself. I spin when I'm down and the fact that sometimes I do It well makes me feel better.

If someone has an big ego and decides to put someone else down, is that their ego or a different flaw in their personality?


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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TinklePants
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, Unit...

Total posts: 4217
Posted:I had a really long post but I cant explain myself properly (lack of sleep)
Ego is good - too much or too little is bad.

And if it wasn't for ego, I doubt fire spinning would even exist!!!

*timewarps you all to the day when man nearly chickened out at picking up a fiery club/staff/ball and chain*
Imagine what it would be like if he didn't! Oh my god I may cry at this notion!!!

So rock on egostitical fire spinners! (as we all know - HoPpers are the best - end of story smile)


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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mico
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

mico

freedom in chains
Location: San Francisco & Oxford, United...

Total posts: 176
Posted:There aren't many realms of life where the accomplished are simply
delighted to see something impressive, just like a beginner, and
where the emphasis remains on the art, instead of the individual.

I'm so chuffed to have found such a scene - it delights
as much as it inspires - and remains a constant source of
learning, both in the art form and for this individual.

Issues of ego will always be creeping about, and sometimes,
charging about. In many cases adding to someones character
in colorful and not always offensive ways...

As long as they are secondary to their pursuit of poi and their
involvement in the scene, then they are but tiny hillocks on the
vast landscape of human interaction.


~peace is a fire~

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:I know I'm good, but never forget that there are loads of people way better than me (especially here...). I like to perform for a couple of reasons. I love the feel of object manipulation. I love to here the cheers of people who appreciate my art. It gets me in for free to a lot of places ( smile ). It attracts the kind of people I like to talk to (martial artists, philosopher types, etc.) and vice-versa.

But I loveto spin in front of a crowd. Once I forget they are there and just go my spinning goes up a notch and so do the cheers, and I love it more. The crowd and I feed off of each other if you will. They get a hell of a show and I get to feel loved and appreciated for a few minutes.

Ego is not a bad thing. Self-esteem is a wonderful thing to have. And self-promoters will usually do better at getting what they want. It's only when they forget humility and their ego begins making others feel bad that it turns into something bad. Have as big of an ego as you want.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:I have to say I'm always dissapointed to find a spinner who is of the "Ha, look how great I am. Stand in awe of my mastery of the fire arts!" variety.

(This is always a good position to adopt in the early hours of the morning though when you spin like a demented chimp and everyone is falling around laughing and you yourself are giggling uncontrolably wink )

I've always had a problem with people who believe wholeheartedly that they are 'great'. I tend to find that it doesnt usually matter what these people are referring to though. They just think that they are great in general. Anything else is just an extension of that.

TBH I couldnt care how good anyone is at anything until they start telling me how great they are. Then I really want to see them fail to impress me and particularly relish in those moments when someone completely shows them up. A persons attitude towards their art (or whatever thy are doing) is much more important than their ability level IMO.

We are all in a state of constant learning. Even those at the very top of their professions could learn more. That is the thing that people should concentrate on. Not how far behind them other people are.


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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:Written by: Seye


I've always had a problem with people who believe wholeheartedly that they are 'great'.







I have never met anyone like this.

Sometimes people show off - that's cool. You choose how to react to it. It doesn't bother me. I enjoy watching people enjoying the enjoyment people get from watching them. ubbloco



Re-read Durb's bit about an audience above smile



ALSO - The 'bigging up' online and in articles first mentioned doesn't seem to have anything to do with ego.



Well, maybe it does, but not by the person/people who wrote it. Think about that.


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., Uni...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:ok ive thought about posting in here, but am unsure what recation im going to get........

i really dont see myself as a person with an ego, never have done - i really enjoy the art i do, staff for me i fecking awesome, i love it, ive been doing it ages and consider myself to be pretty good - but i still have loads and loads to learn and i always will smile

Thing is - when you doing trix like the matrix or anything contacty which ive been doing for ages and consider it to be an "old hat" move - i really hate it when someone shouts - "Show off"

Generally i know when someone is joking either by the tone of thier voice or if they are a friend...........

But sometimes it really annoys me that people think your showing off when your just doing something you love and have been doing for ages............

I think there all just jelous wink

ubblol

**ducks incoming abuse & goes outside to show off wink**


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:be proud to do what you do well, mister. People who shout 'show off' in a negative way are, indeed, missing the point totally.

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., Uni...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:another thing i find is that people can get the wrong impression of long time spinners if you like............

what i mean is - when you first start spinning, inevitably you get "the bug" every move is eciting and learning new things - oooo there is sooo much to get excited about and ideas flow lots....... ubbrollsmile

i remember exactly what it was like smile

However - of recent spinning has taken over alot of my life and ive talked about researched, developed ideas met people, know lots about the scene............ when a newbie approaches me with their new found excitement i find it hard to recipricate - mainly coz its old hat and to be honest, sometimes i just dont want to know about the 4 beat weave they have just learnt........... weve taught soooo many people over the years and seen many people develop poi skills.......... its hard to show excitement for everyone.

So - i may come across as "whatever, well done" which may give you the impression that ive got my head up my arse and am egotistical............ rolleyes

Anyone else know the point im trying to make - as ive kinda forgotten myself confused

ubblol


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., Uni...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:Written by: fluffy napalm fairy

be proud to do what you do well, mister.



biggrin

ive had good friends to develop with mate hug


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:yup. i'm with ya mista S.

tho generally happy to say well done too, and try to help on to the next step smile


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., Uni...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:phew........ glad its not just me smile

I am happy to praise and point ideas too, just some days i know i can be a grumpy git - like the rest of us wink


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:A surefire way to stop ego (at least bad ego). ubblol

Make friends with newbie spinners and really good ones. Learn the good things from each of them - and not just spinning but mayhaps even personality.

biggrin


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., Uni...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:good logic Kael - which i already adopt -ie:

i have many good spinner friends........ie fluff, durbin etc.

and im even making an effort with newbies..........ie frodo, 2bags wink

ubblol


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Yep yep - ditto what Strugzy said smile

(although I've given up making an effort with 2bags - he's just a [censored] wink )


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Just to clarify...

There is nothing wrong with being good.
Just because you can do complicated tricks with ease does not make you egotistical. (The two things are completely unrelated)

This post has become a bit confused.
The problem with 'ego' (in the post title as opposed to the philosophical meaning that has also been discussed) is one of personality and people's percieved relationship with others. I think the topic was meant to be about was the tendency of some people to make ridiculous claims about how much better they are than anyone else. The problem here though is people who say "I am great because I can do this...", not people who have just practised hard to become good at their art.

FNF and Strugz - You are right, people who shout 'show off' just because you are good at something are missing the point entirely.

Surly all of us have come across someone who just thinks that they are 'great' and that everyone else should instantly respect them and look up to them. Usually in these cases I lose sight of how talented they are and just class them as a deluded moron and move on to the next person. They may well be as good as they say they are but they come across as an idiot and as such I dont really care if they can verify their claims.


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: Seye

Surly all of us have come across someone who just thinks that they are 'great' and that everyone else should instantly respect them and look up to them.



actually, i haven't met anyone like that in the spinning scene yet...

in fact, i've only ever heard stories of one spinner who makes these kind of demands but thankfully, i'm unlikely to ever meet him smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Written by: Seye

Surly all of us have come across someone who just thinks that they are 'great' and that everyone else should instantly respect them and look up to them.



actually, that person is MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

wink

I'll get my coat....


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:ubblol

Neither have I, Cole.

Kael (and others) I LOVE newbie spinners and spend lots of time with them, as well as the old-timers. Both are equally rewarding, but contrary to strugz I find myself getting unbelievably excited when I teach someone a 3 beat - let alone a 4 beat biggrin

ubbrollsmile


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: coleman

Written by: Seye

Surly all of us have come across someone who just thinks that they are 'great' and that everyone else should instantly respect them and look up to them.



actually, i haven't met anyone like that in the spinning scene yet...




Oh c'mon Captain Happy... Yes you have. And you too Fluffmeister. ubblol


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Groovy_Dream
SILVER Member since May 2005

Groovy_Dream

addict
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 449
Posted:I'll never forget a scene from the movie '7 years in Tibet'. Two guys and a girl were ice skating on a frozen lake in the Himilayas. One guy was trying to impress the chick by skating round frantically doing lots of crazy tricks, while the other guy spent his time teaching the girl how to skate... he actually talked to her and connected with her. Who do you think got the girl?

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Page: 1234

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