• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 
Page: 12
Jai - Staff


Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast

Total posts: 85
Posted:Hey all,

Earlier this year the Crusty Deamons did a tour. They had a gig in Melbourne and had a few fire spinners. They are doing a tour again next year, i just wanted to know if they are going to be doing the same. I wouldnt mind doing it.

Yeh i know that you dont get paid. But who cares, how many chances do you get to go to see a show like this, let alone actually perform at it. If i was a professional who makes money off fire spinning then i wouldnt. But im not.

Its a chance to premote fire spinning!

If anyone knows anything about it then please can you get back to me. Would really like to know anything about it.

Thank you all very much.

Jai


I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

Delete Topic

Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:They have been doing it every year for the past three years I believe....but they keep fobbing off paying us so a lot of fire performers boycotted last year.

So I guess the only way to find out if those cheap skates are going to be asking us to perform free AGAIN....is to ask the source directly.

Try calling the organisers of the Crusty Demons.


Delete

flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3136

arictocRAT
GOLD Member since Oct 2004

arictocRAT

newbie
Location: Thornbury, Victoria, Australia

Total posts: 27
Posted:as far as i know there definately is going to be a demons tour in 2005, and i bet they'll want fire performers there again.

there is also going to be another motocross thing at rod laver in march. wouldn't be surprised if they ask for twirlers as well.

maybe we should think about forming some type of union or something, first of all for the sake of insurance, then second koz it'll probably be easier to get paid if we're in a huge group like last year rather than just hired one by one as what usually happens at raves.

just a thought.

jeff pyrotek the rat


Delete

roarfire
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside, Australia

Total posts: 2676
Posted:It doesn't matter....it's just money. The experience itself should be enough. C'mon guys... You can't get paid for everything you do!

.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.

Delete

Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:It's not the actually fact of not being paid it is the principal...most of us are professional and get paid (even tiny amounts) to do shows.

We have been told a number of times that the Crusty Demons have organised it as a last minute thing and therfore it isn't in the budget well come on after three years of asking us it isn't a last minute thing anymore.

If people want to do it for the experience then by all means go for it but it is also up to us whether we want to boycott or not.


Delete

Jai - Staff


Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast

Total posts: 85
Posted:That whole union thing isnt a bad idea. But just remember that everyone has to be involved or else it cant work. If they can get some performers to do it for free then they wont use the whole union thing. So, all or none.

Anyone want to head the union, how bout bender or tyr or one of those veterans. Interested guys? If not, anyone wanna vollenteer? Just remember they always do it at the last minute so if we organise a group now, we will be ready for them when they do it.


I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

Delete

bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:a firetwirlers' union would be an immense responsibility, particularly if the worse should happen and reporters start rifling thru me garbage or sniff my undies...

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Delete

Tyr
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

Tyr

Simplicity Convoluter & Cabbage Friend
Location: In the shadow of the wolf (som...

Total posts: 126
Posted:I've thought about a union too - would be wonderful but need a lot of work and most firies to stand behind it - problem is we are a diverse group - As for Crusty's - they haven't approached me or any of the other primary melboure organisers are far as I know - That doesn't really surprise me - they are a chaotic bunch to work for...(I have many words to add here but no time right now) I will put a post up if I get any details for you - Last time was a partial sucksess but also a bit of a nightmare despite my best efforts to make it run smoothly - anyways post more when I'm back from travels, cheers and happy spinning everyone smile

What are you creatures of Fantastica? Dreams, poetic inventions, characters in a neverending story.
Gmork
The Neverending Story

Delete

arictocRAT
GOLD Member since Oct 2004

arictocRAT

newbie
Location: Thornbury, Victoria, Australia

Total posts: 27
Posted:another thing a twirling union might have to think about is public liability insurance. if we get it as a group it will be a helluva lot cheaper than individually, which i know a lot of twirlers don't bother with. who wants to lose the rest of their life if they hit someone accidentally?

Another suggestion might be to jump on board with the jugglers. The 2 hobbies are fairly closely related. most firetwirlers i know juggle at least a bit, and vice verse. They also sometimes use fire, and we sometimes don't. The more numbers in a union, the more powerful it is. Circus performers might even join.

Someone do some research. I might ask to run it if no-one else wants to, because it is a good idea and probably should be done. but i have absolutely NO experience in these matters.


Delete

ataxia
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

ataxia

member
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 172
Posted:How will membership be inforced? Will those without be frowned apon, and not recommended for public performances?
I'm sure employers will lean towards those with a certified group backing them, and with large scale public liability insurance.


Geez, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Delete

Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:No offence but there is no way I would join a union. And I am sure that I would not be the only one to feel this way.

I have had nothing but trouble from many unions that I have been involved with...they may start out caring but they end up being backstabbers.

Just my personal opinion.


Delete

Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:there is no way I will ever work for the demons and there are a lot of us who feel the same way.



Why should you spin for free? Its not fair to you as a performer to spin for nothing, espically since the demons make so much money and then claim they have no budget for spinners... **cough cough bullsheet cough cough**



Written by:
But who cares, how many chances do you get to go to see a show like this, let alone actually perform at it.





There are plenty of shows that will come up, even of this magnatitude, and the good thing about it is that you will even get paid for them.



You should be hired and paid a fair amount of money for your talents, not used and abused to pad out the show of other professinal performers.



Im as sure as hell they would laugh at you if you asked THEM to perform for free... confused confused


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

Delete

fiendish


fiendish

Member
Location: astateofinhibition

Total posts: 51
Posted:

If we can't decide for ourselves what type s of show s we want to do or how much we want to charge as individuals then there isn't much point in going to all trouble of learning and training ourselves to do such an art-& hopefully your ART is diversley different to everyone elses. If want to standardize fees and expectations you would have do likewise to the art being performed.

Besides which has anyone actually noticed the great things unions did for country? No me neither.
I for 1 will never join a union of artists the notion is just repulsive.
I will also be happy to promote my art free and accept nearly all available chances to express myself through fire and dance to a crowd that size. I know it'll certainly help bring in other better paid gigs in the future.


"Aaah fire. Scourge of Prometheus,toaster of marshmallows & irradicator of small children..." SideshowBob.

Delete

Pirate Boy
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

member
Location: wollongong, Australia

Total posts: 20
Posted:Think about it 2 or 3 shows in every state, $80 a ticket, 14000 tickets per show...
you do the math


Only the insane prosper,
Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane...

Delete

Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Written by: fiendish

. I know it'll certainly help bring in other better paid gigs in the future.



Not if you aint charging for a gig the magnatitude of demons. Why should you make smaller gigs pay if you aint charging a coperate machine for using your talent? because really when it comes down to it all they are doing is using people. (the people that they have used also includes some of my best friends who are some of the top fire preformers in Qld)
They are milking you for all your worth and it makes it harder for the peofessinal people who know the worth of their talent to be paid accordingly.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

Delete

Jai - Staff


Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast

Total posts: 85
Posted:damn valura you really are bitter about this subject. he he he, its funny.

I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

Delete

Sakura_Moon


Sakura_Moon

Hop's Kitten Jester.
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Austral...

Total posts: 1803
Posted:I'M IN!!! I would like to be paid...but oh well

.:Pink Exocutioner:.

I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...

Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.


Delete

Jai - Staff


Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast

Total posts: 85
Posted:he he he, wouldnt we all love to be paid doing something we love. he he he. i definatly would.

I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

Delete

Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:yeah I am bitter about the demons because they pull this every year and they are wrong to do it...

People DO get paid to do this for a living. Over the Moon entertainment, Carinval of the Divine Inspiration,Te Pooka , Flame OZ.... This is only the tip of the iceberg....They deserve every penny they get becasue they work damn hard and put all their passion into everything they do...Im not saying that you dont do this also, Im sure you do....I just think, If people are willing to spin for nothing it makes it harder for the professinal groups to get paid. The professinal groups who incidently rely on this to survive, ... Fullstop


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

Delete

Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand

Total posts: 625
Posted:I agree with Val!

You know what your doing to prefesional performers by doing the "demons" tour for free!!! Your cutting them off at the knees, they put alot of time and effort into all aspects of performance and deserve to get paid...

This happens all over and you guys should have read flids post, because there was a huge cat fight over this same issue last year and it SUX! No only the fact the CD are making huge money and not paying performers, but the free amatures are supporting them!

Those people have no morals, talk black, live white and bow to the green.


Delete

Jai - Staff


Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast

Total posts: 85
Posted:Valura and Dragon7 hold up a second. I cant talk on behalf of everyone here but only for myself. i think it is absoutly crap that Crusty is doing that to the professionals, but think of the amateurs. Most of the amateurs that do those shows go on to become the professionals.

i think that as a group we should go in together and form a union, if you will. that way if crusty want to have a show they should go through that union. I know this has been suggested before, but honestly i think that if we want to keep fire professional then we should definalty do this. If anyone wants to vollenteer then please step forward. i dont have any experience myself but would help in any way possible even if that means forming it myself.

but we have to remember, its either all or none.

Peace.

Jai


I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

Delete

vyvyan


vyvyan

journeyman
Location: tell me when you find me

Total posts: 92
Posted:howdy folks....here's 2 cents from an ol'timer. I relate to and agree with your ' bitterness' Valura, here's to you girl, for doing the hard yards. Its about knowing what you have put in over the years and years and years, and what you are worth. I agree with you Jai, a union is a good idea, but i reckon a pain in the ass. Seems to me that y'all have a pretty fine forum/discourse on the issues right here on line, communicating, debating pros and cons, spreading the word about good gigs and dodgy gigs, is that not what a union does? Anyone in Duck for Cover knows the massive amounts of work that the admin crew do for all us performers, and the admin crew are hugely underpaid and overworked for it too. It will be a labour of love for anyone up to the challenge. Methinks save yourself the agony and create the 'terms of agreement' here online, as you all already are- then when some gig like this comes up, you know what to do, cos of all the online discourse...
cheers and sooty fingers
vyvyaaaaaaan


...Firebreathing? Magic is only part of it my friend, diet does the rest!

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ive heard that some people have been treated badly by the Crusty krew, and for that there is no excuse. However, I was under the impression that the Melbourne fire performers were paid last year, and they also received free tickets. Not bad if you are a biker wink



As far a payment and fee for service goes, I think we (as fire twirlers) need to recognise that the bikers are the real stars of this show, not the fire twirlers. I think its also important to recognise what the customer wants, and not what WE want to give them.



It would appear that the Crusty krew are not looking to purchase an elaborate choreographed fire performance like you would expect from a professional troop likeTe Pooka. So, why do people keep insisting that Crusty purchase these elaborate performances, when thats clearly NOT what they want.



If gigs like this are beneath the Pros, then why shouldnt others step into fill that gap? At least its a great learning experience for peeps on the way up to bigger and better things. And I certainly dont see how this will undermine the professional performers, who are obviously performing for a different section of the market.



I really think we need to be more realistic in our approach to performance payment than hey theres a cooperate cow lets milk it.



shrug





Go the rat wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Written by: Stone

I
As far a payment and fee for service goes, I think we (as fire twirlers) need to recognise that the bikers are the real stars of this show, not the fire twirlers. I think its also important to recognise what the customer wants, and not what WE want to give them.

It would appear that the Crusty krew are not looking to purchase an elaborate choreographed fire performance like you would expect from a professional troop likeTe Pooka. So, why do people keep insisting that Crusty purchase these elaborate performances, when thats clearly NOT what they want.

If gigs like this are beneath the Pros, then why shouldnt others step into fill that gap? At least its a great learning experience for peeps on the way up to bigger and better things. And I certainly dont see how this will undermine the professional performers, who are obviously performing for a different section of the market.

I really think we need to be more realistic in our approach to performance payment than hey theres a cooperate cow lets milk it.





oh lordy stone. It has nothing to do with being the stars of the show. I know that the fire preformers dont WANT to be the stars of the show and that is a completely different issue altogether.

the gig is not 'beneath' the 'professinal' preformers at all... Its that the demons are too cheap to actually pay anyone a fair fee and wouldnt dream of asking anyone that would actually ask for a fee... that would mean they may have to part with some money!!
I would love to see someone get the demons to come for a party at my place and perform for nothing. I dont even mind emailing them and asking for them to do such a thing... I sure know what my answer would be!

This is not about 'milking the coperate cow' mate. Its about being paid fairly for a talent or a profession that you undertake. If they want you to preform then they should be willing to pay for that privilage, no matter WHAT your level of talent, professinal or not.
Its like asking a mechanic to work on your car for nothing. Its unfair. And I personally would never even consider having the hide to expect not to pay for something

I find it ironic that you call them your "customers" when they are not reembursing you for the effort, fuel and your talent. eek

how can you be more realistic to the payment approach than " I would like to be paid for my preformance and time"

Im hardly saying that you need to ask for hundreds of dollars.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Valura, its seems obvious from you comments that some fire performers have had a bad time with the Crusty Demons in the past. But you make it sound like the Melbourne fire twirlers were not paid. The Melbourne performers were paid. Im sure how much, so Im only guessing, but including free tickets it would have been b/t $100 to $200 per performer.

What is a fair fee? And is the fee the same for a no frills event like demons compared to a huge production with a choreographed routine and all? As I said, this type of event might not be the preference for a professional fire troop. This is a niche market, within a niche market. Horses for courses.

Krews like Crusty are your customers even though they might not be at the high end of town. Perhaps when this is realised, a reasonable fee can be extracted.

Ratsack wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

Jai - Staff


Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast

Total posts: 85
Posted:actually they wernt paid in money, they were given a free ticket to the show. which to them means nothing because most of the time those seats are usually empty. maybe next time we should discuss getting a corperate box organised with all free food and such instead of getting paid. that would be awesome instead of actually getting paid. thats if they are still to stingy to pay for it.

I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

Delete

Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Written by:
The Melbourne performers were paid. Im sure how much, so Im only guessing, but including free tickets it would have been b/t $100 to $200 per performer.


ubblol
They were offered a max of fifty dollars, which as Jai has said they did not recieve.

A fair fee in my honest opinion would be a minimum of 50.00 per person for the preformance. AT LEAST they could cover the costs to the preformers.

The more involved the preformance the more it would cost of course Stone, you know that. Its all comparitive

Written by:

Krews like Crusty are your customers even though they might not be at the high end of town. Perhaps when this is realised, a reasonable fee can be extracted.



I dont believe that someone can be your customer if they are using you and not offering sufficient compensation for your time and effort. I would see it as more an agreement between your self and said party.
the dictionary definition of customer is Written by:
One that buys goods or services.
Main Entry: customer
Function: noun
1 : a person or business that purchases a commodity or service


well they certianly are not buying anything from what I have experienced. So I suppose they cannot be a customer.

In fact what really surprises me Stone is that you seem to be of the opinion that it is the attitudes of the spinners that results in the non payment from the demons.
Written by:
Krews like Crusty are your customers even though they might not be at the high end of town. Perhaps when this is realised, a reasonable fee can be extracted.



It is the lack of respect from the Demons for the fireys which I have the problem with. I think that the performers have showed a lot of restraint in being so openly used over the years.

Written by:
thats if they are still to stingy to pay for it.


you can bet your patootie they will be too stingy. biggrin


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

Delete

Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:By the way... still waiting on a reply email from the demons, to confirm that they will be performing at my housewarming free of charge... am yet to recieve this. ubblol ubblol biggrin lolsign

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

Delete

Jai - Staff


Jai - Staff

member
Location: Gold Coast

Total posts: 85
Posted:he he he valura your funny

I can't wait to die, I'm going to Hell. They have fire down there!

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Valura, I agree, Its about being paid fairly for a talent or a profession that you undertake. And everyone wants to get paid for doing what they like doing. So what makes fire twirlers any more special than another performers out there? In any discipline, be it in music, sports, drama or whatever. How much do you think a budding stand-up comedian would be prepared to pay for their first real gig? Cream floats to the top, and even something a humble as eighty-buck ticket puts you on the start line. Warning others before they get ripped is fair enough, but one could question the motives of anyone using guilt to prevent a person performing.





ratfink wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

Page: 12

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [crusty deamon* tour] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > Crusty Deamons Tour??? [47 replies]
2. Forums > Incendium Members in Crusty 7 Video [17 replies]
3. Forums > Rob FireNix Worldwide Tour Summer '09
4. Forums > Fire Twirl with Crusty Demons of Dirt (Melb, Aust) [43 replies]
5. Forums > Crusty Demons Sydney [6 replies]

     Show more..