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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Just realized that these beauties havent been discussed before, so lets talk! And Rev, you are not allowed to write more than 2 pages in every post wink

My interpretation of Atomic weaves: A weave where the planes are 90 degrees apart. Same hand movement as in a weave. Splittime.

You can more or less do everything with atomic weaves that you can do with normal ones (turning, bhb . . .)
BUT - There seem to be 2 different categories: 3 beat and 5 beat. The interesting thing: You are not able to change from one to the other unless you break the planes 180 degree! ubbloco Either you spin in a 3 beat pattern or in a 5 beat one. They are as far away from each other as Butterflies and Weaves!
So you can transition with one 90 degree plane change like this:

..................................Weaves...............................
.............................. /.................\.............................
3B Atomic weaves...................5B Atomic weaves
...............................\................./.............................
................................Butterflies...............................


Rev, please tell me that you understand this diagram!

Where are the geeks ?!?

devil andy ubbangel


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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eckstahsee


eckstahsee

stranger
Location: East Coast,USA

Total posts: 2
Posted:I am lost with the search function. Rev i belive had a video awhile back that had some real nice atomic stuff in it. I have'nt been by hop in awhile so i could be mistaken about the author. If I find the link I will post it up.

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:-bump-

I've been playing with these in the last few days, and I have a question for anyone geeky enough to be able to answer this.

Is a forward atomic weave (3bt) the EXACT same move as a notcoleman 3, but with the planes shifted so they're 90 degrees apart? But the inside/outside pattern is the same.


My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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Geeza
GOLD Member since May 2006

Geeza

addict
Location: Leeds

Total posts: 694
Posted:any video of one (that works) they sound interesting

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:sambo, no.

thats an atomic inside weave, the "real" (only cos it conforms to already established nomeclature) is with fully external planes, no buzzsaw/inside beats.


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:Aha! Having read the whole thread this time, that makes total sense. I was having trouble with outside ones because of the plane configuration I was using.



So, as far as I can tell, there are 2 basic configurations for atomic planes, one of which is related to weave, the other is related more to butterfly. I've been calling them parrallel to arm and perpendicular to arm, although better names might be in order. Imagine an X horizontally in front of you, with your arms making the /\ bit with your hands at the center of the cross.



Parrallel-to-arm is where the right hand poi is in the \ plane (parrallel to your right arm), and the left poi is in the / plane (parrallel to your left arm). Spinning this in split time lends itself to atomic weaves that stay outside the arms (fully external planes). So this is more related to weave.



Perpendicular-to-arm is where the right poi is spinning in the / plane, parrallel to your left arm, and the right poi is in the \ plane. This set-up is the one I use for the inside atomic weave I was describing a few posts back. It's more related to butterfly , as you can get into it by doing a butterfly and rotating your planes.



Thinking about this lead me onto thinking about atomics in terms of quadrants, where each quadrant is a quarter of the X (/\, <, \/, > going anticlockwise). If you keep the planes of the poi as a constant X, then you can move round the outside of the pattern. If you're spinning perpendicular-to-arm, then shifting your body 90 degrees round the side will change the orientation of the poi to parrallel-to-arms. If you keep going, you shift back to perpendicular-to-arms, but in reverse.



I'd like to point out I haven't figured out how to do this yet, my planes go all over the place when I try it and I end up in a situation where the poi get tangled which I'm currently trying to work out how to avoid, but I'm fairly convinced it can be done. Thinking of atomics in these terms seems to open up a lot of possiblilities (TTN, break planes into inside atomic weave, move to the next quadrant, straighten planes to weave etc). Or it may be balls, I'd had a few "jazz ciggarettes" when I thought it.



What does everyone think? Does that even make any sense whatsoever? ubbloco confused

EDITED_BY: Sambo_Flux (1188836740)


My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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sketch
GOLD Member since May 2006

sketch

Empirically random...
Location: Lincoln

Total posts: 431
Posted:Thought i would emerge from the shadows for this one.



In my opinion, a 3 beat Atomic Weave is both poi spinning at 90 degree angles, and completing the normal weave beats, one of which is in wheel plane (as the normal weave hand) and the other is either in wall plane or floor plane.

As Oli mentioned in another thread, that makes the atom alot clearer to the audience, as they see one plane from the front and one from the side.



Obviously there are endless different options, but I think this thread is an excellent introduction for people new to "atomics class", and it's nice not to overcomplicate the definition of a basic 3 beat version.






"This dark place planet Earth, orbits one star,
Come from afar, far away state of mind,
open up your third eye, black helicopters in the sky"

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16.15.8
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

16.15.8

I cant think therefore Im not
Location: In my backpack

Total posts: 291
Posted:Got a little bit of atomicstuff in this vid. Nothing special though it is just a flower but you can clearly se waht an atomic and playing in different planes means....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RTCoX8s96JU


"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."

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Bernie_Flame
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

Bernie_Flame

Poi junkie
Location: In your face!

Total posts: 75
Posted:sorry, I'm not a big fan of these mixed plane moves. I don't really like the patterns they make. Having said that, i'm sure i'll find myself learning them at some point, when i run out of other idea's to play with.

man who go bed with itchy bum wake up with smelly finger!

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Mucky
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA

Total posts: 227
Posted:Ok, so... Clarify for the newb (who's read this whole thread!)... Does the Above-Below atomic weave as shown in Nick Cann's video above go by a different name than the wheel-wall atomic weave others have described? Or are they all just lumped as Atomic Weaves? I can do a 5-beat above-below (floorplane-wheelplane) 'til the cows come home, no problem, but the wheelplane-wallplane one gives me trouble if I try to do 5-beats... Getting that's just a matter of practice, of course, but would these be considered two distinct moves?

Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere

Total posts: 290
Posted:Insignia has been calling the horizontal vs vertical atomics 'crosshairs atomics', which I like. So you could call the Nick Cann vid a 3-beat crosshair weave, perhaps?

-Alien Jon


+Alien Jon

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:Crosshair.
Cute.
Yes i agree some distinctions should be made.
Crosshair, vertical, tilted... Any more ideas?


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:Oh guess what... Me and the vulcan guys got some footage of me spinning some basic tilted atomic weaving... Mostly passing through outsides and cranes to inversions from the polar point. Stay tuned for the latest "tech lounge"release!! And we'll have some visuals to finally get down to the nitty gritty.

On a more depressing note I also got some pretty sick tilted isolated atom weaving, and some tilted atomic airwraps and hypes on tape... Finally... Now I gotta try to get them uploaded wo a camera frown


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere

Total posts: 290
Posted:Arashi: are you saying you have footage on a tape, but no camera to put the tap in to upload from?

Concerning Atomic orientations:
Atomics are always a form where each poi's spin plane is at a right angle (90deg) to the other. As such this form has an atomic axis where the planes intersect. This atomic axis happens to share the same orientation as the absent spin plane's rotational axis. For example if you are spinning in wheel/wall, the floor plane is absent and the axis we are talking about would be the 'Z' axis. If anyone is having a hard time visualizing this think of an X or a + with a line shooting straight out of the center point directly at you.

To expand a little bit on this, I'd say the jumping off point for most people as they begin to spin in atomic land falls into 2 categories: aligned with conventional planes or tilted.

'Aligned' is square and plumb with the wheel, wall, and/or floor plan. These include wheel/floor AKA 'crosshair' [ + ] , wheel/wall [ (|) ], and wall/floor[ (-) ].

'Tilted' has the planes rotated 45 degrees on the shared axis from the conventional planes [ from '+' to 'X' ]. In the 'tilted' category I've played with the atomic axis pointing vertical (Z axis) or the atomic axis
pointing at my face ( Y axis same as wall planes rotational axis). Theoretically there is also atomic axis parallel with shoulder (X axis same as wheel rotational axis)... but I haven't played with that yet. Any one else try this?

Also hypothetically, there should also be orientations where one spin plane is squared and one is tilted, or you could even take a tilted atomic and rotate the atomic axis' orientation by 45 degrees as well, so that there are no natural right angles for an audience. These probably look crappy though. :P

I think above all there are 2 important orientation considerations:
orientation with respect to a performance (viewing) plane
orientaion with respect to your (the spinners) arms


As far as the viewer is concerned they will see different things wether the atomic axis is pointing at them or not. If it is pointing at them, they see either a '+' or 'X'. If it is not pointing at then they either see a combination of circle and line (horizontal or vertical lines), or they see 2 ellipses (horizontal or vertical ellipses).

The real tricky part is orientation with respect to the arms... OK, so when holding your arms in a neutral untwisted position, the relation ship between the 2 arms implies a plane as governed by the shoulders. As an example, hold your arms straight out in from of you. You're arms and shoulders imply an horizontal plan. Point them up or down and they imply vertical planes. Of course you can bend and twist your arms, as in a weaving and/or threading motion, so in a way this 'arm plane' is like a twisty membrane that has a home or neutral plane position dependent on orientation to the shoulders.

Sambo Flux mentioned parallel and perpendicular spin plane orientations to your arms. It goes a little deeper than that even as there are several orientations for those 2 categories. This is important because your spin-planes' orientations to the arm plane dictates how you can spin with your atomics: where you will hit your arms or pass your arms, where you can invert, etc. The relationship of arm plane to body dictates where you can spin insides and where your inside planes are. Suffice to say that by keeping the atomic orientation the same and changing your arm orientation, or vice versa, interesting shifts happen: you make room where you would have hit your arm, what was an inswing into an inversion swings into an inside plane instead, etc.

Ok, getting I'm sleepy and I kept telling myself this post wouldn't become a thesis. More later,
-Alien Jon


+Alien Jon

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Mucky
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA

Total posts: 227
Posted:I've been trying to expand my atom-type skill, so your post helped clear a few things up.... The need to be aware of the "arm plane" is quickly becoming evident.

And thanks for the reference to Insignia's video channel... Lots of atomy goodness! I've started to experiment with inversions a bit lately so his crosshair video is going to be useful, I think.


Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:Keeping in mind of course that the z axis orientation is in flux depending on which way you are facing and which part of the weave you are in.
Which brings up a point to consider- most people don't yet try to maintain a constant "atom" when they are weaving. Breaking it up and/or weaving has its uses-but they remain the same as in common planes... To maintain spinning while expressing movement with the hands smile


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Mucky
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA

Total posts: 227
Posted:Arashi, forgive me, but I'm not sure what you mean by not maintaining a constant atom whilst weaving. Do you mean they revert to a standard weave?

Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:I understand that to mean that the atom wobbles. So it does not stay in the same place. Well, if you look at a lot of meenik's tuts he talks about crosspoints. I assume that those are moving?

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Mucky
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA

Total posts: 227
Posted:Just looking at Insignia's crosshair vid, that one stay in one spot, more or less... his hands act as the cross points, rather than on the poi itself. Incidentally, I did not find Nick's atom tutorial especially helpful, unlike most of his other ones. I tend to avoid having the poi cross on the chains/lines where possible (though this preference may be partially fueled by the fact that I can't ever seem to get it to look clean).

Wouldn't you have to isolate the entire move in order for both planes to stay exactly in one spot? Then again, the heads would be moving, at that point, in exactly the typical "atom" image, two perpendicular circles 'round and round.


Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:Nick woolsey has an atom tutorial? Cud sum1 hook me up w a link?

I think the isolated question is a misunderstanding... You shouldn't need to isolate to maintain the structure in any way, even inversions could be thru-wrapped.

And yes I mean maintaining the "crosshair etc." structure visually while moving (individually or at once) the atom and the hands/body. Breaking the atom should be a conscious decision with the audience in mind.

The atomic weaves which occur in the crane areas are specifically what I meant, most of the old vids I saw were in the crane quadrants and the drastic movement of the hands (necessary wo good crane control) grossly warped the notion of a constant atom.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Sambo_Flux
GOLD Member since Jun 2006

Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London

Total posts: 833
Posted:That's one of the reasons I prefer inside atomic weaves, is you don't have to break the planes to make it work... It looks more like a true atom and less like flailing... tongue wink

My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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Mucky
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA

Total posts: 227
Posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsNQBZsYiOQ
(meenik's atomic weave video)

I've been playing with atom/box stuff all afternoon... I can see *how* you'd keep the structure stable, but I'm far from realizing that.


Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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Olle


newbie


Total posts: 3
Posted:I like atomics quite a lot smile



Jumping into the middle of a discussion here, here are a few of my opinions on atomics in genereal. Feel free to dissagree:

A: Atomics are not hard. Physically. Atomics are not Tech Poi. Atomics are really different that's all. If you'd spent as much time spinning perpendicular planes as you have spinning parallells, most atoms would be a piece of cake. And spinning perpendicular planes really shouldn't be all that hard.



B: There really is no need to apply any isolations, inswings or plane bending to make any of the basic (3-5 beats, uninverted) atomic weaves work. Some are harder than others I give you that, but they're definitely all doable.



C: Atomics do not necessarily link to plane bending. A lot of us seem to associate these two vastly different elements directly to one another. And it seems like some people have missed out on some interesting fundamental atomic spinning because they're keen as mustard on plane bending. That's cool and all though, to each his own.



Thougts or comments?



Love from Sweden.

EDITED_BY: Olle (1214546851)


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bratboy1010


newbie
Location: DC

Total posts: 5
Posted:Make sure you really want to go atomic, because once you do, your planes may start to get all bendy

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