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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Just realized that these beauties havent been discussed before, so lets talk! And Rev, you are not allowed to write more than 2 pages in every post wink

My interpretation of Atomic weaves: A weave where the planes are 90 degrees apart. Same hand movement as in a weave. Splittime.

You can more or less do everything with atomic weaves that you can do with normal ones (turning, bhb . . .)
BUT - There seem to be 2 different categories: 3 beat and 5 beat. The interesting thing: You are not able to change from one to the other unless you break the planes 180 degree! ubbloco Either you spin in a 3 beat pattern or in a 5 beat one. They are as far away from each other as Butterflies and Weaves!
So you can transition with one 90 degree plane change like this:

..................................Weaves...............................
.............................. /.................\.............................
3B Atomic weaves...................5B Atomic weaves
...............................\................./.............................
................................Butterflies...............................


Rev, please tell me that you understand this diagram!

Where are the geeks ?!?

devil andy ubbangel


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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Y.T.
SILVER Member since Apr 2003

hopeless addict
Location: nodnoL, United Kingdom

Total posts: 121
Posted:This is still baffling me, i don't think i can do an atomic weave but I haven't had one shown to me yet, we NEED video people!

and what has been shown looked more like the notcoleman movements but never at proper 90 degree angles.


Ninjas NEVER give up!

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Hehe, I've not even played with 5bt stuff atomically yet!

But as I've said elsewhere, we really need to work out what type of atomic weave we're talking about. Because simply by breaking the planes apart so they're separated to 90 degrees you can translate a regular or butterfly weave to atomic land. These moves require plane breaks while you're swinging.

But basic buzzsaw (inverted) weaves when broken apart allow you to do atomic weaves that don't have any plane breaks in them. And personally I think these look a lot better.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Lets keep the Butterfly weaves out of the discussion for the beginning since they are not really defined yet and everybody is playing them different.

Written by:
These moves require plane breaks while you're swinging.



Atomic weaves have no plane breaks !


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Ok - you said...

Written by:
My interpretation of Atomic weaves: A weave where the planes are 90 degrees apart. Same hand movement as in a weave. Splittime.



In a normal weave each poi does one beat in one wheel plane, two in the other. So how do you do the same thing atomically without having each poi travel from wall -> wheel plane and back?

Unless you're talking about buzzsaw weaves where each poi goes over->under->inside and so there's no need to do a plane break when you do it atomically. In which case we're doing the same thing and just arguing semantics ubblol


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:No buzzsawness in there ...

Lets try this: You spin a forward weave: The lefthand Poi does always the same 2(right):1(left) in wheelplane. Now shift the righthand Poi slowly to the right from wheel to wallplane. So in the end the right Poi does 2(in front):1(behind).
You can stop the weave motion and spin continuously with the hands CROSSED, the right hand spinning wall plane(in front) the left hand wheel plane (right side). This would be a Basic Atom

....._I_
You.I

I = plane
(Where is Rev when you need him)

makes sense ?!?


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Yes... but then I think we are talking about the same move ubblol I think we're just looking at it different ways.

Try starting from a wall plane buzzsaw weave and split that out to 90 degrees and let me know if it's the same.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Written by:
Try starting from a wall plane buzzsaw weave

.... would love to, if I would know what a buzzsaw weave is .... NYC showed me one (thx btw) but I think its not the one you are talking about.
But I can tell you that there is no "between the arms" in an atomic weave biggrin

So if we talk about the same move now - try the 5 beat version: Start from an atom with hands UNCROSSED - you will automatically need 5 beats in order to twist and untwist . . . as far as I found out.


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Ok, let me describe what I do. Starting left poi CW (clockwise) front wall plane, right poi CCW (counter clockwise) right wheel plane, planes meet in front and to your right. Cross your arms so you're now spinning right poi CW front wall plane, left poi CCW right wall plane, right arm on top. All split time.

Bring the poi in the left hand (spinning R wheel plane) inside and under your right arm and back over it. As it's going over your left hand is now on top, so start to bring the poi in your right hand (spinning F wall plane) inside and over your left arm. Voila, you're back where you started and have done a single cycle of the box weave.

Does that make sense? The hand and poi movements for this are exactly the same as a regular buzzsaw weave.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Normal weave - same side -> over -> under

Buzzsaw weave - > inside -> over -> under

It's a weave where the crossover takes place inside the arms and not outside.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:One question before I try to decipher your post . . . my Poi are 80cm: Everything "inside" is painful if not shortened, or are you talking about another inside ?!?

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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I'm talking about between the arms. So yes, with 80cm poi inside is somewhat of a risky proposition ubblol

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:actually we do need rev for this one, cos hes got that whole 'weaves come inside anyway' mission going on.

spiralx your gettign confused between weave and invert weave. invert weave the hand are always crossed and come iside for the respective beat (the beat on the same side as the hand). in a weave it comes inside for the crossed beat, and only breafly.

what puzzles me is splittime, i can do it same time and quarter time but the strings always clash if i go splittime, maybe im not threading at the right point.

gonna post some diagrams into my user gallery, link in a mo.

T wave


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-><- Kallisti

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1723
br>
actually its not really all that instructive, i havent put any directions (cos they dont matter much) and its basically like my vid but seen from the top and with better planes ubblol

got more stuff to say about atoms, but im not gonna yet.

T wave


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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Well see I'm defining a box weave... which is a bit different from an atom weave I guess smile

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:*refers spiralx to the thread title and scowles*

this stuff is hard enough as it is you know?

T wave


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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Written by:
what puzzles me is splittime, i can do it same time and quarter time but the strings always clash if i go splittime, maybe im not threading at the right point.



Sametime atomic weave? Sounds interesting! You just dont like it the easy way, do you?!?
Play a weave forwards, take the right poi 90degrees to the right into wall plane and you get an atomic weave. Many beginners play variations of atomic weaves because they cannot keep clean planes....my tip: Drink a bottle of standard platinum premium quality vodka and your weaves will automatically become atomic beerchug - uups, are we allowed to talk about substance abuse to assist learning ?!?

ubbloco


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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Nix - you can do the move I'm describing atomically as well as box style. I think it looks better box style myself though smile

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingd...

Total posts: 7263
Posted:ubblol

Let's relight this forum ubblove

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:funnily enough poiboxII, thats what dragon said.

you will have to show me spiralx, cos i got no idea what you mean, unless you are breaking the atomic planes insted of turning it. which is weird.

think about this: atoms can be done loads of diffrent ways, my example the poi cross at the top and bottom, but they could also cross front and back, or at either side or graduations inbetween all of them.

its huge i tell you.

T wave


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: Nx?
i got no idea what you mean, unless you are breaking the atomic planes insted of turning it





That is what he's doing. So thats another way to do atoms...



spiralx's atomic stuff (from what i've seen) is all about 90* plane changes instead of crossing the plane of the body. Like a 4 sided version of trinity planes.



whereas [Nx?]'s atoms have constant planes (one poi stays wall, the other stays wheel), yes?



meanwhile, non-hopper Adam of the North does a atomic turning weave which has constant planes when he weaves, but shifts planes 90* when he turns from 'forward' to 'backward'.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:I'm full of thanksgiving stuffing and this thread is full of misconceptions. can you guys wait until later? i'm on another gypsy adventure across the U.S. so no time! don't assume anything about how these things work, just keeping slamming things together until something works. there's ways to go from 3-5 beat atomic weaves, for instance. i do atomics same time (as well as the other time overlays) including atomic airwraps and hyps.

normal weaves coming inside? that's just wrong. it's really not that complicated! look at the crossover points! please don't make me argue with rev again. it's no fun.

poibox we must jam up some biscuits someday.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:confused
i see no misconceptions misterarashi.
at the moment its lots of people saying how there's loads of ways to do stuff...

wait a bit until they start arguing about what a 'proper' atomic weave is, then the misconcieving shall begin!

(and i reiterate: airwraps\hyps are naturally atomic anyhoo tongue)

ps: Open Question - what's the definition of same time\split time in atomics?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:same as in weaves or butterflies, same time the poi hit the bottom of thier arcs at the same time, spit time the poi hit the bottom of thier arcs one after the other.

I think arashi is right, the more i just jam this stuff together, the more it works out, and the less I can get my head round it, so ive stoped trying.

T wave


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:oh and monkey.

odd stuff happens when you turn, have you noticed, like in a normall weave you have to transition again straight away because although you have turned subjectivly the hands are still twisting up the same way.

two beat turning is lots of fun tho, and good for giving you a general feeling for the atom.

T wave


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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:ubbloco simian that's what i mean, we're already encountering semantic problems. man i need a digital video camera...

and yes nx is right the inverted weaves go hand in hand with atomics. that's why i've been so anal about the inverted/inside terms, cause if we stay on the same page we'll avoid a lot of confusion with these, and some of my favorite moves are in here. and that's why (along with airwrap theory of course) i started the inverted weaves instruction in the first place. 5 beat inverted inside crane atomic isolated airwraps anyone?


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:yeah well, semantic problems always occur when people believe words to have objective meanings.
Words are tools, and their meaning is their use.
No more, no less.

anyways

following the trend for crudely drawn diagrams:
this is what i thought an atomic weave was
don't ask me why i just spent ages doing it.
i'm not even sure i know why... shrug


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:confusing - though I think I understand. bounce bounce2 but it seems that you mix a backwards, forwards and inverse weave. You are like nx?!

Try this one:
a.) Start with step 6. (You can spin this one continuously and with hands close together - this is the atom with crossed arms I was talking about)
b.) Now do a figure of 8 with the blue one (one beat to the right side and back). This way you take your right (blue) hand on top.
c.) You should be in step 3 now ubbloco
d.) Same as b.) only that the red one spins a figure8 to the left and back. Taking the red on top.
Now you are back in step 6! Start over again . . .

@arashi: Biscuits? Shure! Come over to Vancouver - ill pay for your drinks wink


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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Y.T.
SILVER Member since Apr 2003

hopeless addict
Location: nodnoL, United Kingdom

Total posts: 121
Posted:ok,

poibox's modification was what i htough was the atomic weave, i have no idea what the monkey atomic is but it does look nice and isn't too hard to do. turning is messing with my head though.

cheers fo the diagram it is the first thing i've managed to learn off of hop message boards, now spiralax just needs to get one done for his crazt atomic thing!

s-luke


Ninjas NEVER give up!

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Y.T.
SILVER Member since Apr 2003

hopeless addict
Location: nodnoL, United Kingdom

Total posts: 121
Posted:and is is entirely possible to do thh motions simian describes but start off with the blue poi going under the other orm when you start instead of over, and oddly i find this makes the turning easier.

Ninjas NEVER give up!

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:nice diagram, monkey, you put me to shame.

arashi, i heard this crane term before from dragon, but i dont know what it means....

T wave


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