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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ok, one for the Christians.

Perhaps they shouldnt have all those TV evangelists littering early morning television when I get home form clubbing. But, it never ceases to amaze me how these guys can go on about how they follow the teaching of Jesus, and how great Jesus is and all we need to do to find salvation is follow the word and works of Jesus. Which is fair enough, Jesus was/is a great inspiration.

But hey, then these evangelist types start quoting all this Old Testament stuff about God. Which they manipulating to suit their tainted views of how the world should be, and how people should behave. And they go on about all this creationist rubbish and how homosexuals are and abomination and all the usual narrow minded stuff.

I mean, Jesus was the son of God made man, and his teachings were spot on. Like his lessons about The Good Samaritan, The Prodigal Son, The Wedding Feast etc. etc. Jesus cared for the people. He helped the lepers, the prostitutes, the blind, and he inspired us all to be better people. But this is NOT what evangelists and fundamentalists inspire. They are self-serving and only inspire guilt, hate and prejudice.

I find this very confusing because a Christian is person who follows the teachings of Christ, not some Old Testament rubbish about a fire and brimstone God.

For example, definitions of a Christian from dictionary dot com:

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane

So, I suppose the question is how can these evangelists types justify themselves as Christians, because the dont follow Jesus' teachings in any way, shape of form?

My personal opinion is that if Jesus walked the earth today he would strike down these philistines, and kick them out of the temple.

What do you think?


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:all established churches should fear the return of the messiah like they fear nothing else!

I'm sure they will be the ones responsible for the equivelent of killing all the first born children if the messiah does come.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i see a paradox in christianity from the off:



jesus was a jew.

christians are not jews.

therefore they are not like jesus.



as for my prediction for the outcome of the title of the thread:



jesus vs god

============



jesus - 4-1

god - 2-3 odds on favourite





but i think that is a bout we'll never get to see (due to the excessive politics and money grabbing influences in the fight game nowdays - spoils everything).



i think far more likely is at the dawn of the second coming we will witness the grudge match that is...



jesus vs the catholic church



i forsee that some serious smiting's are gonna be dealt out on those hypocritical bitches that day.





i apologise for my views - they probably are not suitable here.

i am quite stressed at work today and needed some light relief - my secretary was offended when i asked her help so i posted here instead wink





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:You've got a secretary!!!!

I'm with you guys... if the a god was to walk this earth incarnate, he wouldnt be fearless leader of the bible bashing evangelicals....


Love is the law.

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:I've got one too... I have to share her with like 14 other people.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:JC rocks! he walked the earth almost 2000 years ago, yet still has the biggest fanclub in the world!

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:santa has a fanclub and he doesn't even exist!!!




ooops. sorry...


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Devilstick_Russell
I like devilstick...
Location: Falmouth
Member Since: 10th May 2004
Total posts: 196
Posted:why do people need to be told what to believe. Are we really that lazy.

Does this site actually exist? Or am i talking to all my other personalities?

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:if we were all leaders we'd spend so much time in meetings nothing would get done.

and there would be no secretaries to help us do stuff.

Van, sounds kinda kinky.... wink


Love is the law.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Opiate

Choices always were a problem for you.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,
what you need is someone strong to use you..
like me,
like me.

If you want to get your soul to heaven,
trust in me .
Don't judge or question.
You are broken now ,
but faith can heal you.
Just do everything I tell you to do.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
Let me lay my holy hand upon you.

My Gods will
becomes me.
When he speaks out,
he speaks through me.
He has needs
like I do.
We both want
to rape you.

Jesus Christ, why don't you come save my life.
Open my eyes and blind me with your light
and your lies.


i really don't have a secretary by the way...



Non-Https Image Link


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Burning Brain
Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones
Member Since: 9th Oct 2004
Total posts: 321
Posted:Written by: Stone
My personal opinion is that if Jesus walked the earth today he would strike down these philistines, and kick them out of the temple.


mad
jesus was just a guy who understood what god wanted. God didnt care if he got fancy ceremonies or sacrafices. he just wanted people to be nice...litterally. read the 10 commandments, thats the kind of stuff that is imbeded into our regular life. i you think about stealing from someone you might feel guilty because its a wrong thing to do. ok. i dont think jesus was the actual son of god. he was just a really nice guy.


If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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stickman
World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||
Member Since: 25th Jul 2004
Total posts: 580
Posted:ok, personally i dont believe in "God" as such, let alone i am christian, but brain, what about all those 'miracles' that JC made happen, and being born of a virgin? sounds like a REALLY nice guy to me then..

i agree, if Jesus were to walk the earth today, do you think he would want to see all these crosses everywhere? as far as i know he did not force his ideas and beliefs upon anybody.. he was seen as the massiah and followed and listen to. do you think he would want to see all these missionaries going around the world telling others what to believe, and that putting your life in the hands of somebody who has been dead for almost 2000 years is the way to salvation?

im very sorry if i offended anyone with this post.. my intention here was not to go christian-bashing.


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Burning Brain
Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones
Member Since: 9th Oct 2004
Total posts: 321
Posted:first of all your cant offend anyone because faith is personal. it doesnt matter what you say. my idea of god, jesus, the holy, whatever is mine and you cant have it tongue
which would bring me to my next point...your right these people with the idea in their head that the world is one way and this so happens to be the way they believe i think is just wrong. npow what jesus did was not teach chrstianity. he was simply an example of his faith. he jkust so happened to be a popular guy.
i look at him like i would a book or any type of art. what you get out of it shouldnt be 'right'. there is no 'right' way to look at art. the authors intentions dont mean much, it is only what it means to you.


If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:brain - your opinion is actually a pretty widespread one.

even other religions claim jesus was a prophet rather than (as christians claim) the son of the one true god.

look up a guy called 'isa in the qur'an if you're interested.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

Gidg
Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 8506
Posted:Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

To understand the Law and the Prophets you have to go to the old testament. God gave Laws (10 commandments) and as people do they added to them, free will. The Prophets told of consequences if specific things where not changed and people decided to do what they wanted, free will.

Like any other teaching, the bible must be looked at as a whole and not just selected passages. To understand what Jesus was all about we have to understand the history of his people and what they did wrong that had him sent down from heaven.

The problem with Evangelists is that they take a specific passages for their foundation and not the whole Bible, thus having the hell, fire and damnation crowd. Let's face it, it's much easier to be angry and unforgiving with someone that it is to forgive them. There is also the theology of "scaring" a person to salvation. Stating all the bad things that will happen in the hope that the person will change just so they will not have all the bad things happen to them.

We have put people in position to lead us in things like this, what we have to remember is that we should not follow blindly. We have to do our part to study and try to understand what the Bible is saying so that we aren't lead astray by those people that have been put in a leadership positions. These people are still people after all and have all the problems that the rest of us do.


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

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stickman
World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||
Member Since: 25th Jul 2004
Total posts: 580
Posted:there was a girl in my class in 11th in high school who got kicked out for numerous reasons.. im not gonna go into all of them, but she was a normal girl, fun to be around, open minded, good at contributing to discussions, etc etc..
the year after, 12th, she went to the christian school in vienna, but still in english.. at first all we heard was the conservatism and conformatism about the place, how guys were not allowed to have hair longer than their shoulders, girls were not allowed to wear tops that showed their bellybutton, that kind of stuff.. oh, and here bible class teacher was hot..
after a few months, she was saying that she had started reading the bible with great curiosity (something ive never done but hope to someday) and started believing some of the teachings of christianity.. later she started saying that if she had a problem, she would ask a question, open the bible, and the first line she read would be her answer.. blind faith in the bible as the answer to everything.. it was incredible how quickly she changed so drastically..
after we both graduated from high school, we were having a discussion about christianity and salvation in general.. she was saying that she found salvation and freedom with Jesus, and that He was her answer.. then i asked her if she thought that somebody who is a strong believer of buddhism and has never heard of JC could find the same happiness in believing that buddha and buddhism was their salvation.. her answer: "No."

eek eek confused eek confused


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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:i have to agree with stone's original post. it's funny (not in a ha-ha kind of way) to me that those that are the most vehemently "christian" (i.e., fundamentalists) are so profoundly un-christian. jesus was all about loving your neighbor and preached that we (humanity) will be judged by how we take care of the neediest among us. and as stone alluded to, christians of the evangelical set are not actually following those teachings of jesus, but are instead obsessed with homosexuals and abortion. it's maddening.

personally, i believe that jesus was the son of god in the same way that we are all the sons and daughters of god. for me that was also part of jesus' message, that we all have divinity within us. i think the world would be a better place if we remembered that and consciously tried to manifest that in our lives.


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Written by: Stickman
f Jesus were to walk the earth today, do you think he would want to see all these crosses everywhere?



BH.

smile


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stickman
World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||
Member Since: 25th Jul 2004
Total posts: 580
Posted:BH??

pls clarify.. i dont speak abbreviation wink


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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Bill Hicks.

smile

offtopic

spank


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stickman
World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||
Member Since: 25th Jul 2004
Total posts: 580
Posted:you betcha.. hes brilliant:D biggrin


also offtopic but what the hell..


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native
native

sleeping with angels
Location: anaheim CA usa
Member Since: 16th Jun 2004
Total posts: 508
Posted:the people on t.v asking for mony dont even belive in what they preach. there by renouncing any faith they may of had in the first place. and you cant juge a group of people by one or two people in the soposed group

SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha

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Bretch
Bretch

enthusiast
Location: Cork, Ireland at present
Member Since: 19th Nov 2004
Total posts: 247
Posted:Heaven is on Earth, we are all in Heaven now (as JC discovered), but are too tied up with our own interests and ideas of how life 'should' be. We have all forgotten the gift of life, that happiness, contentment etc is not through what we are made to believe (that big TV/new n latest phone/PC etc) but by losing all, we gain everything.

I truely believe the above, this comes from a particular book I read (and others such as books regarding buddhism/the Celestine Prophecies etc) which I have been trying to find ever since, although I may have written it incorrectly, the basics are there. Sorry if it goes a bit off at a tangent.


I used to be indecisive, but I'm not so sure now.....

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Game, Set and Match to Jesus

I really impressed by the quality of all the comments made so far. I know we will all make it upstairs to the big room, when we pass from this land to the next.

People often ask for proof of Gods existence, but not many people are willing to dispute the fact that fact the JC did walk the earth. So, Im for dumping most of the Old Testament, because I think it became irrelevant about 2000 years ago.


smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:Written by: coleman


brain - your opinion is actually a pretty widespread one.



even other religions claim jesus was a prophet rather than (as christians claim) the son of the one true god.



look up a guy called 'isa in the qur'an if you're interested.





cole. x





Actually, cristianity never even said he was anything more than a prophet or even claimed Mary was a virgin until about 400 years after Jesus died. Then there was a schism in the church, all sorta stuff happened, and there was a split, with both sides excommunicating the other and one side claiming they were correct because jesus was divine. Eastern orthodox still maintains (as the catholic church orginally did till the split) that jesus was just a man, and mary his mother in the same sense as everyone else's mother (i.e. she was no vigin). Interesting to note that this schism has never been formall resolved and as a result, all christians, regardless of which side of the fence they are unwittingly on, have been excommunicated from the church in one way or another and therefor all going to hell...



Anyway... I am not a religious person, but I do beleive a (fully human by both parents) man named Jesus (or something like that) did live 2000 years ago and did an excellent job of spreading the word of eastern religions in and around the middle east and making quite a political stir. Props to him for the profound impact he had, but I'm sure he'd be dissapointed with the direction it has gone since. I don't think he let himself get nailed to a cross for the crap they have used his name for in the last two millinea.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:has anyone read the book "the holy blood and the holy grail"?

it's a theory that jesus was not the son of god, but was (as stated in the old testament) of the bloodline of the house of david, ancient israeli kings, and that he quite possibly was trying to reclaim his throne, hence the crown of thorns & the sign i.n.r.i. - "kings of the jews" being hung above his head during his crucifixtion.

anyway, the book goes on to suggest that he was married to mary magdelene, and that she fled with his child to france (and there is quite a lot of evidence of this) after his death, and that his child, his bloodline, is in fact the holy grail. and not some cup that may have been used at the last supper

the story follows many mysteries & secret societies throughout history which are all somewhat interlinked, from ancient merivingian kings of france, to the crusades and the knights templar, to the cathars, to the stewarts of scotland and right down to modern day freemasonry

i won't give too much away for those who haven't read it but it's definitely a riviting read.


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:has anyone read the book "the holy blood and the holy grail"?

it's a theory that jesus was not the son of god, but was (as stated in the old testament) of the bloodline of the house of david, ancient israeli kings, and that he quite possibly was trying to reclaim his throne, hence the crown of thorns & the sign i.n.r.i. - "kings of the jews" being hung above his head during his crucifixtion.

anyway, the book goes on to suggest that he was married to mary magdelene, and that she fled with his child to france (and there is quite a lot of evidence of this) after his death, and that his child, his bloodline, is in fact the holy grail. and not some cup that may have been used at the last supper

the story follows many mysteries & secret societies throughout history which are all somewhat interlinked, from the ancient merovingian kings of france, to the crusades and the knights templar, to the cathars, to the stewarts of scotland and right down to modern day freemasonry

i won't give too much away for those who haven't read it but it's definitely a riviting read.


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Burning Brain
Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones
Member Since: 9th Oct 2004
Total posts: 321
Posted:Written by: Stone
People often ask for proof of Gods existence, but not many people are willing to dispute the fact that fact the JC did walk the earth. So, Im for dumping most of the Old Testament, because I think it became irrelevant about 2000 years ago.



what you have to understand about the old testement is that alot of it, at one point, was just stories that were pasted down for many many years. in fact the stories, from the time of abraham through moses and the giving of the 10 comandments up to the kings of isreal, wre not written down until one of the kings decided to make a compilation of these stories. from writting them down many of them were corrupted for political gain. so oyou cant really see them as historically accurate but just stories to learn from.

as for god, you cant look at him as a guy with some glue and wood putting together the universe. the creation story is not true, it just shows the disconnection of humands from god. it is just a story. i see god more as the universe itself. that is god 'created' humans through evolution.


If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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Burning Brain
Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones
Member Since: 9th Oct 2004
Total posts: 321
Posted:oh, dont even get me started on the freemasons. basically they own the world...the only reason why we wont he revolutionary war was because wa because the parties involved in getting france as our allies were freemasons and when one freemason asked another for his help he must assist. the US in a free nation because of them.

Freemasons own our world.


If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ive had a bit more time to digest everyones though provoking ideas. Personally, I convinced that some of us have been detoured from our natural faith. I think the important this is to discover what you believe, for me that comes from understanding what Im drawn to, and what I feel deep down is right, even after all the indoctrination.

Perceptive as ever Mr Coleman. Yep, jesus vs the church is the big one. Its no secret that the evangelists own Bush, a own a number of US States and many schools where they propagate creationist lies. Recently, many Australians were shocked by the success of the Church of the Harvest backed Family First Party in the Federal election.

ado-p, good to have you long for the march.

Tao, are you really, really, sure that santa doesn't exist. Does that mean I have to pull down my stockings.

DevilstickRussell, I think coleman has supplied you with one reason that people need to be told what to believe. Religion is the opiate of the masses. Perhaps people who need to be told how to think are not so much lazy, as insecure or even lost.

And guys, what prey tell is wrong with secretaries? I mean Im doing a bit of PA work at the moment.

BurningBrain, the 10 commandments are hard to beat, unless someone tells you that there are really only two commandments wink Though, I disagree with your assertion that the authors of the bible intentions dont mean much. The bible was written for a reason. But yes I agree the important message is what the bible means to you/us. Unfortunately, some people take this the next step, and want their views turned into gospel.

Yes Stickman, Im sure Jesus was a really nice guy. And I suppose like most nice guys, they took advantage of him. Though, I suspect he would do it over again if he had to.

Interesting thoughts Gidg. I had that its much easier to be angry and unforgiving thought recently. I agree that the bible must be looked at as a whole, but what is the whole bible? Is not the bible a collection of many books, and there was much discussion about what should be included in the bible. Do we know what constitutes the whole bible? Though, I understand your point. Unfortunately, not many are prepared to study and or understand what the Bible is saying. Therefore, many are led astray by people who, from all accounts, use the bible for their own purposes.

Thanks blueboy, thats what I was trying to say christians of the evangelical set are not actually following those teachings of jesus, but are instead obsessed with homosexuals and abortion.

Think Ill have to read some Bill Hicks.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:native, unfortunately we do judge people by who they associate with, and if you associate with a particular group, then chances are you will absorb some of their philosophies.

Bretch, Heaven is on Earth, wasnt that a song? No, perhaps its me then. I have always thought that earth was more like Hell than Heaven. Sorry, I cant help you with the book your are trying to find.

Yes vanize, the role of the church is a good point. Somewhere along the line after the crucifixion and before the great schism, there was real Christianity. When you say all churches have been excommunicated from the church, you mean form the Roman Catholic Church. For some reason, I find the story of Mary and the virgin birth somehow pagan in nature. So, what happened, how did the church become so tainted?

Faberge I havent read any of the "the holy blood and the holy grail" books? But a friend has a few, and I have heard some of the stories. Its a bit much for me. Though, I suspect that these stories may have started when the early Christians (before the church was tainted) traveled to Britain and the Isles. Oddly enough, Ive just finished American Gods, and Im into ..

BurningBrain, until recently I did think that the bible was historically accurate, but the accounts from the bible dont match the archeological evidence. I was under the belief that freemasons were the builder of the pyramids.

Phew L8R


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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