Forums > Social Discussion > UK Hunt Ban
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Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Just wanted to express my joy at this finally happening, and as soon as it is. In 3 months time hunting live animals will be illegal in the UK.
And the fact is, this poses no threat to the majority of the hunt community as drag hunting allows the exact same experience, just without an animal being torn to ribbons at the end.
I come from a very rural community with a hunt that occasionally passes though it, and I find the whole thing despicable. Whilst I realise the ban won't stop live hunting, at least the governemnt is no longer condoning it.
I personally believe no human has the right to take an animal's life for their entertainment. A few weeks ago in my home town several cats went missing, and they were found tied to a disused railway line having been set on fire. To me there is no difference between this and the hunt, except perhaps that the hunt is a much slower and more painful way for the animal to die.
Hunting has no place in a moderate society, it seems to me. I feel it is beneath the level of human understanding to go on with "sports" such as this when perfect alternatives exist. Why go shooting birds when you can go shoot clay pigeons?
The whole thing is summed up perfectly by Mogwai's video for Hunted By A Freak. A man sits atop a tall building, throwing small cute animals off for his own amusement. Disgusting, disturbing feeling. And just the same as grown men mounting horses and chasing down a terrified animal to be torn apart by a pack of dogs.
Just wanted to express my joy at this finally happening, and as soon as it is. In 3 months time hunting live animals will be illegal in the UK.
And the fact is, this poses no threat to the majority of the hunt community as drag hunting allows the exact same experience, just without an animal being torn to ribbons at the end.
I come from a very rural community with a hunt that occasionally passes though it, and I find the whole thing despicable. Whilst I realise the ban won't stop live hunting, at least the governemnt is no longer condoning it.
I personally believe no human has the right to take an animal's life for their entertainment. A few weeks ago in my home town several cats went missing, and they were found tied to a disused railway line having been set on fire. To me there is no difference between this and the hunt, except perhaps that the hunt is a much slower and more painful way for the animal to die.
Hunting has no place in a moderate society, it seems to me. I feel it is beneath the level of human understanding to go on with "sports" such as this when perfect alternatives exist. Why go shooting birds when you can go shoot clay pigeons?
The whole thing is summed up perfectly by Mogwai's video for Hunted By A Freak. A man sits atop a tall building, throwing small cute animals off for his own amusement. Disgusting, disturbing feeling. And just the same as grown men mounting horses and chasing down a terrified animal to be torn apart by a pack of dogs.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
He, I didn't have to wear the outfit
Jodphurs, boots and a hat, sure, but that's as far as it went. I never entered trials, y'see.
He, I didn't have to wear the outfit
Jodphurs, boots and a hat, sure, but that's as far as it went. I never entered trials, y'see. What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
women in johphurs with whips is probably the only redeeming feature of hunts
women in johphurs with whips is probably the only redeeming feature of hunts
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
*wonders about suggesting a theme night for a future tg*
"is you da fox?"
cole. x
*wonders about suggesting a theme night for a future tg*
"is you da fox?"
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Written by: coleman
"is you da fox?"
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
BRONZE Member
Member
2 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Member
2 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
Why is it that the people that do not really see what happens and WHY hunting happens have been able to push a law thru> Vote orientated MPs., oh and the house of Lords evidently there only for show.
I come from a small island in Scotland and there's no foxes, badgers, hedgehogs or normal voles(don't ask!!) but i do know the effect that foxes have on farming.
Have u seen a field during lambing when a fox has "played" and left 20 young lambs half dead and then you have to put them down? Or your hens dead except 2 that've been so traumatised they have to be put down as well? What about the dogs that will have to be put down coz there's no need for them-will those that pushed the ban take them in? Why not?
I know farmers and when they are going to have their fields trambled up by horses and have dogs running freely there has got to be a VERY good reason for it!!
The mind's like a parachute-works best when it's open! Why can so few really see both sides?
Just a thought!!!
Why is it that the people that do not really see what happens and WHY hunting happens have been able to push a law thru> Vote orientated MPs., oh and the house of Lords evidently there only for show.
I come from a small island in Scotland and there's no foxes, badgers, hedgehogs or normal voles(don't ask!!) but i do know the effect that foxes have on farming.
Have u seen a field during lambing when a fox has "played" and left 20 young lambs half dead and then you have to put them down? Or your hens dead except 2 that've been so traumatised they have to be put down as well? What about the dogs that will have to be put down coz there's no need for them-will those that pushed the ban take them in? Why not?
I know farmers and when they are going to have their fields trambled up by horses and have dogs running freely there has got to be a VERY good reason for it!!
The mind's like a parachute-works best when it's open! Why can so few really see both sides?
Just a thought!!!
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Like you just didn't?
Written by: Kriz Razzie
Why can so few really see both sides?
Just a thought!!!
Like you just didn't?
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
this is a great point and is one of the reasons that many livestock farmers allow hunts to pass over their land.
i know flid has already said something to the effect of "they just need to build their fences properly" but as i'm sure he knows, its not that simple - when you have a 400 acre farm spread out over three, non-adjoining sites it becomes a full-time job just to keep your fox-proof fencing maintained and secure.
not to mention the fact that such fences spoils the natural beauty of an area and affects the migration of other countryside wildlife - there is lots of hoo-haa about keeping natural hedgerows as field barriers to try to preserve the countryside's hedge-dwelling inhabitants but a hedge don't keep a fox out...
and nearly_all_gone - that was a pretty cheeky comment considering the tone of your first and subsequent posts
i'm still waiting for someone to suggest a more humane/morally sound method of fox population control...
cole. x
Written by: Kriz Razzie
Have u seen a field during lambing when a fox has "played" and left 20 young lambs half dead and then you have to put them down? Or your hens dead except 2 that've been so traumatised they have to be put down as well?
this is a great point and is one of the reasons that many livestock farmers allow hunts to pass over their land.
i know flid has already said something to the effect of "they just need to build their fences properly" but as i'm sure he knows, its not that simple - when you have a 400 acre farm spread out over three, non-adjoining sites it becomes a full-time job just to keep your fox-proof fencing maintained and secure.
not to mention the fact that such fences spoils the natural beauty of an area and affects the migration of other countryside wildlife - there is lots of hoo-haa about keeping natural hedgerows as field barriers to try to preserve the countryside's hedge-dwelling inhabitants but a hedge don't keep a fox out...
and nearly_all_gone - that was a pretty cheeky comment considering the tone of your first and subsequent posts
i'm still waiting for someone to suggest a more humane/morally sound method of fox population control...
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
old hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK
Posted:
The shepherdess I used to know would leave the carcasses of any lambs which died due to natural circumstances at the boundaries of her land.
This seemed to sate the foxes appetite.
I always thought it would act as an encourgagement for foxes to hunt there though. But she didn't suffer fox-related losses in the couple of years I was helping her out.
Not sure on what the Law has to say about leaving dead lambs undearneath hedgerows either
The shepherdess I used to know would leave the carcasses of any lambs which died due to natural circumstances at the boundaries of her land.
This seemed to sate the foxes appetite.
I always thought it would act as an encourgagement for foxes to hunt there though. But she didn't suffer fox-related losses in the couple of years I was helping her out.
Not sure on what the Law has to say about leaving dead lambs undearneath hedgerows either
Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
My dad used to work as a hunter for farmers. He shot rabbits, foxes etc...
I hate to see animals being killed but if they are doing damage (and they are doing damage because we uprotted them in the first place) then something has to be done.
I would much rather see a fox with a taste for sheep blood get a bullet in the head than get torn apart by a pack of hounds *edited*.
EDITED_BY: ado-p (1101396914)
Written by: coleman
i'm still waiting for someone to suggest a more humane/morally sound method of fox population control...
cole. x
My dad used to work as a hunter for farmers. He shot rabbits, foxes etc...
I hate to see animals being killed but if they are doing damage (and they are doing damage because we uprotted them in the first place) then something has to be done.
I would much rather see a fox with a taste for sheep blood get a bullet in the head than get torn apart by a pack of hounds *edited*.
EDITED_BY: ado-p (1101396914)
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
yep, that's about the only option - pay someone to kill the foxes quickly and cleanly.
but who pays exactly?
will the government provide a fund for the farmers now they have removed their free means of pest control?
i doubt it - more likely i think, is the increased use of snares (the cheapest alternative) which has an effect on all wildlife - a snare doesn't know what its caught and doesn't care, it simply immobilises whatever it catches and makes it bleed.
your last comment is the kind of inflammatory generalisation we've been trying to avoid here dude - all huntsmen are not toffs and it is not the fact that the pack makes the kill that they 'revel' in.
interesting article on what happened in scotland after the ban - could the same happen here?
cole. x
Written by: ado-p
My dad used to work as a hunter for farmers. He shot rabbits, foxes etc...
I hate to see animals being killed but if they are doing damage (and they are doing damage because we uprotted them in the first place) then something has to be done.
I would much rather see a fox with a taste for sheep blood get a bullet in the head than get torn apart by a pack of hounds while a bunch of toffs sit bit on horses and revel in it.
yep, that's about the only option - pay someone to kill the foxes quickly and cleanly.
but who pays exactly?
will the government provide a fund for the farmers now they have removed their free means of pest control?
i doubt it - more likely i think, is the increased use of snares (the cheapest alternative) which has an effect on all wildlife - a snare doesn't know what its caught and doesn't care, it simply immobilises whatever it catches and makes it bleed.
your last comment is the kind of inflammatory generalisation we've been trying to avoid here dude - all huntsmen are not toffs and it is not the fact that the pack makes the kill that they 'revel' in.
interesting article on what happened in scotland after the ban - could the same happen here?
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
fair enough, i take back my last comment and apologise. i'll edit it out.
why should the government pay for pest control?
I buy my own mouse traps...
fair enough, i take back my last comment and apologise. i'll edit it out.
why should the government pay for pest control?
I buy my own mouse traps...
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Hey, I never said I was trying to present a balanced view. I'm massively biased, but I think it's a bit futile to ask people to see all sides of the argument when you a) don't put one forward yourself, and when b) it's such a hugely emotive issue for so many people.
But meh. No offence intended, or anything, just trying to point out a point.
Written by: coleman
nearly_all_gone - that was a pretty cheeky comment considering the tone of your first and subsequent posts
Hey, I never said I was trying to present a balanced view. I'm massively biased, but I think it's a bit futile to ask people to see all sides of the argument when you a) don't put one forward yourself, and when b) it's such a hugely emotive issue for so many people.
But meh. No offence intended, or anything, just trying to point out a point.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
i don't get the whole pest control thing at all. it seems like a conveniant argument to me. I grew up working on a farm and there were loads of animals that could potentially have been got by foxes but we never had to go on hunts to get rid of them. and if it was completely necessary to get rid of foxes in that way then surely some people would have to go on hunts who didn't really want to, becuase the job would have to get done right? but all the hunts i've seen everyone seems to be having a wild time.
i don't really know where i stand. i just know that i grew up in that community, and i don't really worry about pretty fluffy animals being killed (sorry...) but it just doesn't seem to be anywhere ner as essential as the pro hunters make it out to be.
i don't get the whole pest control thing at all. it seems like a conveniant argument to me. I grew up working on a farm and there were loads of animals that could potentially have been got by foxes but we never had to go on hunts to get rid of them. and if it was completely necessary to get rid of foxes in that way then surely some people would have to go on hunts who didn't really want to, becuase the job would have to get done right? but all the hunts i've seen everyone seems to be having a wild time.
i don't really know where i stand. i just know that i grew up in that community, and i don't really worry about pretty fluffy animals being killed (sorry...) but it just doesn't seem to be anywhere ner as essential as the pro hunters make it out to be.
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
because the government have removed the only option of free pest control - hunts - if the law had been passed in the way this country has always passed laws, i wouldn't claim that the government was liable for the loss of income but in this case, i think i can.
but they won't pay because there is no precedent here.
since foxes don't taste very good its not likely that they'll find people that want to hunt foxes for farmers at no charge.
but i am speculating - we will have to wait and see what fills the gap left by banned hunts...
if a farmer does not like the idea of hunts he can employ traps or snares or pay for hunters to go lamping.
what kind of farm was yours tao?
i know farms that have small animal enclosures are less susceptable to foxes - it is generally the large livestock farms with free-range spaces that are pro-hunt.
hunts cost farmers nothing not to mention that they often help clear the land of dead animals and notify them of damage to their fences, fields and borders.
yes, huntsmen and women enjoy the activity - it costs them lots of money to keep a pack and horses and so on.
thje fact that enjoyment is a part of it is the crux of the moral argument against hunts.
EDITED_BY: coleman (1101399941)
Written by: ado-p
why should the government pay for pest control?
I buy my own mouse traps...
because the government have removed the only option of free pest control - hunts - if the law had been passed in the way this country has always passed laws, i wouldn't claim that the government was liable for the loss of income but in this case, i think i can.
but they won't pay because there is no precedent here.
since foxes don't taste very good its not likely that they'll find people that want to hunt foxes for farmers at no charge.
but i am speculating - we will have to wait and see what fills the gap left by banned hunts...
Written by: Tao Star
i don't get the whole pest control thing at all. it seems like a conveniant argument to me. I grew up working on a farm and there were loads of animals that could potentially have been got by foxes but we never had to go on hunts to get rid of them. and if it was completely necessary to get rid of foxes in that way then surely some people would have to go on hunts who didn't really want to, becuase the job would have to get done right? but all the hunts i've seen everyone seems to be having a wild time.
if a farmer does not like the idea of hunts he can employ traps or snares or pay for hunters to go lamping.
what kind of farm was yours tao?
i know farms that have small animal enclosures are less susceptable to foxes - it is generally the large livestock farms with free-range spaces that are pro-hunt.
hunts cost farmers nothing not to mention that they often help clear the land of dead animals and notify them of damage to their fences, fields and borders.
yes, huntsmen and women enjoy the activity - it costs them lots of money to keep a pack and horses and so on.
thje fact that enjoyment is a part of it is the crux of the moral argument against hunts.
EDITED_BY: coleman (1101399941)
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
i guess my point was.
if there was no hunts then it wouldnt have been free in the first place...
like it isnt free here in ireland...
though there does seem to be an endless supply of grants and subsidies for irish farmers. i cant honeslty say if fox killing is covered though.
i guess my point was.
if there was no hunts then it wouldnt have been free in the first place...
like it isnt free here in ireland...
though there does seem to be an endless supply of grants and subsidies for irish farmers. i cant honeslty say if fox killing is covered though.
Love is the law.
BRONZE Member
Member
2 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Member
2 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
As i said there are NO foxes where i'm from but I have been working with sheep since i was 8 and the main cause of unnatural death to our sheep(my family and some other people on the island own sheep) other than natural cause is dogs and if they keep doing it they are put down. Some farmers don't give it a second thought shooting a dog in a field, even if it's not worrying sheep.
Hunting is not the best way but it means farmers don't have to go out and do it themselves or pay someone else to. If a fox is a problem then it should really only be the one that causes the problem that's shot but nothing works like that.
I know i'm based and i do see a bit of where the anti hunt protesters come from but i don't believe a ban is the right way to do things. There are alternatives but i've no idea what!!
How much harm do anti hunt protesters do when they're scaring horses on a hunt with horns and shouting? I saw a program on TV a bit back and seeing what happened and what they did was worse than any fox of huntsperson.
Oh and it can be hard enough to stock proof a fence(so sheep/cows can't get thru) never mind fox proof it!!! The EU grants are not that good!!!
i know i offend some people-sorry
As i said there are NO foxes where i'm from but I have been working with sheep since i was 8 and the main cause of unnatural death to our sheep(my family and some other people on the island own sheep) other than natural cause is dogs and if they keep doing it they are put down. Some farmers don't give it a second thought shooting a dog in a field, even if it's not worrying sheep.
Hunting is not the best way but it means farmers don't have to go out and do it themselves or pay someone else to. If a fox is a problem then it should really only be the one that causes the problem that's shot but nothing works like that.
I know i'm based and i do see a bit of where the anti hunt protesters come from but i don't believe a ban is the right way to do things. There are alternatives but i've no idea what!!
How much harm do anti hunt protesters do when they're scaring horses on a hunt with horns and shouting? I saw a program on TV a bit back and seeing what happened and what they did was worse than any fox of huntsperson.
Oh and it can be hard enough to stock proof a fence(so sheep/cows can't get thru) never mind fox proof it!!! The EU grants are not that good!!!
i know i offend some people-sorry
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
What TV program was it? I'm interested to know, i once had a journo follow me for a day for a UK teenage magazine, the writeup was very good.
By their very nature, hunt sabs are animal lovers - really, what is the point in spending your weekends in the cold and wet otherwise? I can think of much better places to be than going out at 8am to the middle of nowhere on a saturday. I've not seen a case of animal cruelty by a hunt sab towards any horses. The point of using horns is to minic the horns used by huntsmen to control the hounds, so that in midchase they can be instructed to stop. With calls coming from both parties the hounds can become confused and miss the kill. Horns are used a lot more often by hunts than sabs.
I notice that the 2 posts you've made in this thread are your only 2 ever on this board. Why not create an introduction thread for yourself so we can say hello properly.
What TV program was it? I'm interested to know, i once had a journo follow me for a day for a UK teenage magazine, the writeup was very good.
By their very nature, hunt sabs are animal lovers - really, what is the point in spending your weekends in the cold and wet otherwise? I can think of much better places to be than going out at 8am to the middle of nowhere on a saturday. I've not seen a case of animal cruelty by a hunt sab towards any horses. The point of using horns is to minic the horns used by huntsmen to control the hounds, so that in midchase they can be instructed to stop. With calls coming from both parties the hounds can become confused and miss the kill. Horns are used a lot more often by hunts than sabs.
I notice that the 2 posts you've made in this thread are your only 2 ever on this board. Why not create an introduction thread for yourself so we can say hello properly.
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