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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I keep forgetting to ask this and now I don't have time to ask coherenlty as I need to run.

Can someone explain to me what the laws are for gay marriage between states and in federal terms?

Can a married gay couple in Massachusets (where gay marriage is legal) claim 'marriage' on their federal income tax? Can they on their Massachusets state income tax? If they move to Texas, can they claim it on their Texas state income tax?

What ARE the actual laws at this moment?

Health insurance in gay 'friendly' states? What if the insurance company is national? What about employment?

Grr... bell just rang... gotta run.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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.Morph.
.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK
Member Since: 23rd Mar 2002
Total posts: 669
Posted:as far as I know gay marriages are only upheld in those states that recognise them. Step over the state-line & you're no longer married.

& why would you want to go to Texas? wink


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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:Currently, the federal government does NOT recognize any gay marriage, or civil union, as far as I know, and that includes MAss, Cali, etc. So you can't claim marriage on the federal income tax.

Texas doesn't have a state income tax, and if the state you move to does not recognize gay marriage, or bans it, then no, you can't claim it. While heterosexual marriages are recognized across state lines, the same does not hold true for gay marriage. Indeed, there are several states that ban gay marriage, and many that also ban civil unions, which would seem to be a decent compromise...I won't get on my soap box.

Health insurance...I don't know what laws are in individual states. From what I know here in Texas, it is up to the company that employs someone if they offer benefits to same sex partners. ChevronTexaco DOES offer benefits to same sex partners....I don't know if they had to go with a specific insurance company.

My company does NOT offer same sex benefits, and I doubt they will.

As things stand, unless a company decides to offer equal services, homosexuals are not guaranteed the same rights and privileges as married heterosexual couples. There are a few states that recognize Civil Unions and gay marriages, and, on a state level, homosexual couples are granted the same rights and privileges as everyone else. However, those rights and privileges do not translate to the federal level.

SF...rambling, and annoyed with her "progressive" country.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:NYC,

The Human Rights Campaign (www.hrc.org) has a good run-down of the legalities and formalities.

-L


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Lillie Frog
Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales
Member Since: 31st May 2004
Total posts: 558
Posted:It's a shame.
If two people love each other and want to make a lifetime commitment to each other, publically, legally or religiously, why shouldn't they?

I think marriage should be treated as a more serious commitment than a lot of people seem to think it is, but that's nothing to do with what sex the couple are.

Two people loving each other can only be a good thing as far as I can see.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:Unfortunately, a majority of Americans disagree. They feel marriage should only be between a man and a woman. Why? The best answer I can get...it's tradition, or it's God's law.

Whatever. So compromise? Sure, though several states decided that compromise was not an option either. Six states not only banned same sex marriage, but Civil Unions as well...which would allow gay couples who join in such a union many of the same rights that marriage grants heterosexual couples.

mad mad mad mad

Somewhere along the way, people forgot that there is such a thing as a CIVIC marriage, and a RELIGIOUS marriage. I would never force someone's church to marry me if it went against their beliefs. I respect their beliefs...I just wish they'd respect MINE.
biggrin

bounce Time to go home. (yea...manic...what else is new?)


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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Mand
Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada
Member Since: 24th Oct 2003
Total posts: 2317
Posted:Hunny, are you rantin' again? umm

Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:My fault Mand. We wuz just chattin. wink

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Mand
Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada
Member Since: 24th Oct 2003
Total posts: 2317
Posted:No, no... rant away biggrin

Just out of interest NYC, is there a reason you want to know this?
*wondering if NYC is about to come out of his closet* wink


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:Follow the money trail... it's all about money. The purpose of marriage is to have babies, thus humanity can continue to exist. In case you Homosexuals don't realize it, it is an incredable financial burden to raise babies. That is why there are tax breaks for people who get married (man and woman) it's an incentive to get married. Marriage and children go hand in hand. It promotes stability (theoreticaly). Married male and female tend to have children more often than not. Children cost a lot of money to raise. So taxes are an extra burden which people who are trying to raise children have difficulting dealing with.

For those of you who say "what about the divorce rate?" well... divorce is a shamefull thing when done for selfish reasons. Here's a few statistics. 90% of divorces, where children are involved, are initiated by the female. The number one reason given is that the woman "felt like the husband and wife were growing apart" or she "felt unloved". Nothing concrete... like infidelity or abuse.... sorry if these FACTS are insulting or distubing to anyone, no insult was intended or infered on my part.

I fully expect this post to get deleted by Dom or some other mod....for not being "polliticaly correct".... since he has a history of deleting my posts which he does not agree with polliticaly... and if he is over that phase, then I congradulate him for being tollerant of other people's views...(or in this case... facts)


peace and love folks, and I hope I was able to shed some light on the mystery of why married couples (man and woman) should get tax breaks... and not the genetic dead end that is a homosexual couple. ubbangel


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Phellan
member
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Since: 20th Oct 2003
Total posts: 74
Posted:Ahh but Dantana you're also over looking privileges like visiting rights for hospitals, legalities such as estates and other such various things that "spouses" and "family" recieve on such an accordance.

And are you implying that in an emotionally unhealthy relationship a woman shouldn't remove herself from it if she no longer is recieving the kind of support she feels she deserves?

Abuse comes in a lot of forms--and neglect is one of them.

Civic Unions grant more than just tax breaks as I've pointed out, and that's one of the major claims by the same-sex marriage groups. If you're partner dies or is seriously injured, not being "married" can reduce or completely exclude you from caring for them or managing their affairs.


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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:I was not implying anything about divorce, I simply listed some facts. You can draw your own conclusions from them.

But if you want to hear my opinion I'll give it. I don't agree with divorce for any reason other than physical abuse or infedelity. This "emmtional neglect" is not a concrete deffinable thing. It is way to subjective. There are to many factors too (including lack of communication and selfishness), and I think this isn't the thread to discuss it all. Let me just say that it isn't as simple as "neglect" and there are other issues which are involved and both parties are to blame.. but apparently 90% of the time, it is the female party that leaves and takes the kids (who always give unconditional love) with her... instead of other alternatives. It is unfair to the children IMHO. (Divorce laws in USA actually encourage divorce now.. but that's a different topic)

I've heard Dio explain the hospital visitation and "last will and testiment" thing before. ANY will can be contested in court. Is it right? I say change the hospital visitation thing... and allow people more immunity in writing their own wills. That is a more acceptible sollution, rather than give homosexuals the financial benefites that should be reserved for REAL marriage.

I was simply explaining the tax benefit thing, which is BTW a big factor in this whole debate. Gay couples are jealouse of these tax benefits.

Everything is about money, you know...

11 states in the USA had voter initiative to ban gay marriage.. and 11 states passes these Constitutional bans... the voice of the people has been heard.

Marriage is for having kids and the continuation of humanity. Kids require massive amounts of money to raise (and a stable home). Marriage WAS supposed to help provide that stable home. ubbloco

And in case your wondering, I voted for the gay marriage ban in my state, which passed by a BIG percentage. And my state is one of onely two states where Kerry did not get even one county.... biggrin


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:i think youve missed the point dantana.

Written by:

In case you Homosexuals don't realize it, it is an incredable financial burden to raise babies. That is why there are tax breaks for people who get married (man and woman) it's an incentive to get married. Marriage and children go hand in hand. It promotes stability (theoreticaly). Married male and female tend to have children more often than not. Children cost a lot of money to raise. So taxes are an extra burden which people who are trying to raise children have difficulting dealing with.

I've heard Dio explain the hospital visitation and "last will and testiment" thing before. ANY will can be contested in court. Is it right? I say change the hospital visitation thing... and allow people more immunity in writing their own wills. That is a more acceptible sollution, rather than give homosexuals the financial benefites that should be reserved for REAL marriage.

I was simply explaining the tax benefit thing, which is BTW a big factor in this whole debate. Gay couples are jealouse of these tax benefits.





im fine with no financial benefit for gay couples who wont have kids. as long as we also cancel the benifits of infertile couples, couples who dont wish to have kids, elderly couples past bearing ages etc etc i think its fair.

hey - 'we homosexuals' /bi/whatever understand that kids are expensive to raise - if you have kids i by all means support family benefits.
but if you dont have kids - does it really matter what relationship your in?

id normally be more eloquent and verbose... but since i seem to have been in several of these debate over recent years i really couldnt be bothered ubbloco biggrin wink


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:you would take the exception to the rule (infertile couples, etc) and old people (who have served their time) and try to equate it to the 1% of the population who is Homosexual and produces NO benefit for the perservation of humanity... since a guy and a guy can't produce a baby, and neither can a girl and a girl.
Tax bennefits are ment to encourage marriage which encourages babies which encourage humanity to not go extinct.

That's just logic. wink


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:forgot to mention, tax benefits for married couples... when a man and woman get married, aften they must work and save up money for years just to have enough to hold them over during the wife's pregnancy (during a lot of which she can't work) Obviously many of you don't realize that having kids is such a financial difficulty, that many people must plan well in advance to even have a chance to provide a good home and financial stability for their children. Tax benefits help them during this prepatory period. I know... I'm working on having enough money to have kids with my wife too.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:well, while there is some semblance of reason in DJ dan's arguments, I must counter with the european counter-example (I'll use the German version since I am familiar with it):

civil-unions of whatever sex combination are widely recognized here. Children are still expensive. people with children not only get huge tax breaks, but also increased salary. You don't pay a penny more for medical insurance if you have 5 children than you do if you are single (unless you have private covereage - which only makes sense to have if you are single and never intend to have a family, as you can never go back to the public health insurance once you switch). Also, the couple gets a year total time off gaurnteed (can be 6 and 6, or the mother can take the whole year, or whatever)

homosexual couples that are married (civil union actually) get a couple modest breaks (like I think they can share one insurance plan), but not much else in the financial way. They do, however, have rights like power of atorney, family hospital visiting priveldges, ect. I think it is these things that gay couples want, no matter where they live. Here in Europe, most people don't see any reason why two people should not be allowed these things if they want to have them together. Neither do I.

My point is, In Europe, the system makes it easy for couples to have children, and even provides superior benifits to those that choose to have them than people in the USA recieve. Some of those benifits are tied to marrage in order to encourage stability. Gay couples in a legal civil unions here do not recieve the vast majority of those financial benifits. They do not seem to care at all that they do not have them. They just want the right to be a legitimate couple in the eyes of the law when it comes to legal matters. Few people here begrudge them that.

So, I can see your argument has some valid points concerning gay marrage on financial ground in the USA, since the financial coupling of marrage and procreation is linked in a conservative manner in the states. However, there is no reason a defnintion of a civil union in the USA would have to include those financial implications. And I don't think 95% of homosexual couples in the USA would get too bent out of shape even if the mutual health insurance thing wasn't allowed to them (truth be told, you don't save that much in the USA by sharing health insurance until a child is involved anyway). But I fully believe that a man/woman has a right to visit his/her sick male/female partner in the hospital without having to pretend he/she is his/her brother/sister. And a couple who has lived together for half their life should not be forced apart when one dies and the survivor suddenly finds they have no legel right to anything that remains of their shaed life. Can you imagine what it would feel like if your wife of 20 years died, and then her family came and took all her posesions away from you (including your mutual photograph collection), planned her burial, and then stuck her in the ground 2000 miles away from where you live? That very thing happened to a gay friend of mine about 9 years ago. It is not right, and gay couples should have a legal way to protect themselves. My belief is that this is a basic human right, and it does not matter if even 90% of Americans are self centered enough to disagree.

Basic human rights for certain minority groups have always been frowned upon by some majority or another, but fortunately in such matters the majority does not always win.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:There is the entire arguement about equity and lack there of.

DJ Dan, those people who passed those bans on gay marriage do NOT speak for me. THey speak for their small minded world. They Did NOT pass those bans because they were thinking about the costs of having a child, they passed those bans because they feel same-sex marriage is morally wrong. I have issues with that since My own beliefs do not condem someone for loving another human being, whether they are the same or opposite sex.

The arguement thrown against gay marriage has not once been about financial burdens, but about how immoral homosexuals are. To be honest, I don't care about the financial breaks...it isn't about that for me, and many who fight for equal rights. You may see the argument based in financial matters, but you are the first person to argue that to me. Most folks have a more "altruistic" argument against same sex marriage because "it is an abomination" to their small minds.

Harsh? Yes, perhaps I am being harsh, but I am a second class citizen in this country, and am not afforded all of the rights and privileges other people are because I happen to be in love with a woman. It is NOT something I chose, but it is a part of who I am.

In My case.....why would I want the right to marry the woman I love? Because she is from the UK, and it is almost impossible for her to immigrate to the US to live with me. If she were a man, we could get married, and, as my spouse, she'd get a provisional green card that lasts two years, and would lead to a permanent green card. While the process is a bit more complex than that, it does allow heterosexual straight couples to marry.

Do you not see the lack of equity there? Or do you just think that homosexuals don't have the right to the persuit of happiness?


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:Oh...and you are forgetting one thing, dj dan....there are many homosexual couples that do raise children. They either adopt, or, for lesbians, get a sperm donor. They are raising children. So do they not deserve the tax breaks of which you speak?

Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:Written by:
Obviously many of you don't realize that having kids is such a financial difficulty, that many people must plan well in advance to even have a chance to provide a good home and financial stability for their children.



who is this 'you' that you keep on talking about? do you think gay=stupid? has anyone actually said here that gay people should get the same tax benefits as a single mum with 15 kids? there is no dispute to the massive financial commitment of parenthood. i have a range of friends both straight and non-straights - some wish to have kids - some dont want to scary as is sound many of my gay friends would love to be parents [but thats an entirely different arguement wink]. people of diverse sexuality generally dont really have particularly different life goals from heteros.

Written by:
I know... I'm working on having enough money to have kids with my wife too.



that may well represent a few differences between our two countries. australia has reasonably good laws regarding maternity leave. two close friends of mine have given birth in the last 3 months - in both cases their workplaces have been really cool and nice about time off and pay.

good luck with your dreams hug


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted:DJ Dantana, I have to say that if you really think the only reason gay couples wish to marry is for the tax breaks you can't possibly know all that many truely in love gay couples. They want to marry for the same reason straight people do. To make and be seen to make a commitment to another human being that they dearly love. And your assumption that gay couples don't have, or want to have, and raise children..... well thats just utter rubbish. Have you never heard of sperm donation or surrogate mothers?



I think if two people love each other and wish to show that love in a form of making a legally binding promise to one another they should be allowed to do so regardless of what sexy they or their partner are.



There is enough hate in this world without trying to make the love of two people who happen to be the same sex as each other seem sorded and wrong. I think refusing homosexuals the same basic rights heterosexual people have is wrong!



Sorry if this embarrasses either Mand or Spitfire but I think the obvious love they have for each other spills out on these board and enriches us, as group, all the more for it.


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Mand

No, no... rant away biggrin

Just out of interest NYC, is there a reason you want to know this?
*wondering if NYC is about to come out of his closet* wink



And that officially does it...
# of my gay friends and aquaintances that have in some way questioned, challenged, or joked about my sexuality: All
# of my gay friends or aquaintances that I've questioned, challenged or joked about their choice of sexuality: None.

Strange. You'd a thunk it'd have been the other way around no?

You will not opress my heterosexuality! I will fight on for a day when I can be straight without being teased and harassed about it! Reguardless of what you all may say "Heterosexuality is not a sin!" We shall overcome ultraliberal persecution of openly heterosexual men!

"Weeeee shalll over cooooooome... weee shall over cooooooomeee..."

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Dr_Molly
Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home
Member Since: 4th May 2004
Total posts: 2354
Posted:*hands NYC a banner that says "I heart girls" and a flask of tea*

yes dear


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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:*giggle at NYC* We are evil, don't you know....us homosexuals. You can't trust us.

ubbloco


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Molly

*hands NYC a banner that says "I heart girls" and a flask of tea*

yes dear



Hey, I don't love ALL of them. [Refrains from saying something sappy and embarassing Molly.] wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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OrangeBobo
OrangeBobo

veteran
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
Member Since: 21st Nov 2003
Total posts: 1389
Posted:Written by: DJ Dantana


But if you want to hear my opinion I'll give it. I don't agree with divorce for any reason other than physical abuse or infedelity. This "emmtional neglect" is not a concrete deffinable thing. It is way to subjective. There are to many factors too (including lack of communication and selfishness), and I think this isn't the thread to discuss it all. Let me just say that it isn't as simple as "neglect" and there are other issues which are involved and both parties are to blame.. but apparently 90% of the time, it is the female party that leaves and takes the kids (who always give unconditional love) with her... instead of other alternatives. It is unfair to the children IMHO. (Divorce laws in USA actually encourage divorce now.. but that's a different topic)





Okay, I'm going to put this out as calmly as I can.

Right now, my parents are working on splitting up, and divorcing. There was, has been, and most likely never will be any physical abuse and/or infidelity in my parents relationship.

When parents divorce, it is not only for them, but also for their family. My brother and I were suffering SEVERLY with my parents being together. My mother had a nervous breakdown at one point. She got ill, and was very often sick. (She is better now) Would you consider that to be physical abuse??? Or do you mean physical abuse is man hitting woman to show her who is in charge (as most often would be the case, although there are undoubtedly cases in which the women hit men).

So, you do not agree with my parents divorcing. Even if it means a living hell for every person in that family. Even the DOG was suffering. They never hit eachother, but you could hear the screaming from the street.

This may not be emotional neglect, but my parents have grown and changed into two different people. It happens. And it just so happens that they changed in ways which no longer allows them to comfortably live together. Would you deny them the comfort of their home for the rest of their life, simply because they are married? And what about the children? What kind of problems could arise with us, if we never want to go home? I have seen many kids my age suffer dearly because of problems like mine. I had to live with it for too long (one day was too long to deal with it).

Almost all of my friends' parents are divorced. Happily divorced. And the children are happy. Because the horrid environment of having parents who do not want to live together no longer exists. People change, life changes, and you have to do what you can to deal with it. Divorce may be the only option left for some couples, and if they choose to take it, they do. I think people are looking out for themselves, mentally, better these days, because of the chance to get out of an emotionally abusive relationship. (Emotionally abusive meaning either direct abuse, or indirect)

How is my parent's decision for divorce unfair to me? I am extremely relieved with their decision, and I think we will all live better when the change finally happens.

offtopic Sorry, but the issue was approached, and I felt I needed to say somthing about it, as it affects me greatly.

On topic: I support gay rights, have, and will again. It is time for change in the US, and it will come, sometime. Maybe not tomorrow, but to survive, something has to change. And I think this is one of the things that will be delt with, hopefully with as little stuggle and pain as it has caused so far. Doubtful, but I can still wish. But everything is such a fight...

~ Bobo


wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier

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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:hug Bobo, thank you for shedding light on the divorce issue. I don't have the knowledge, facts or figures to broach that one, and I find the "facts" presented in DJ Dan's post suspect.

(probably from Fox news.)


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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OrangeBobo
OrangeBobo

veteran
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
Member Since: 21st Nov 2003
Total posts: 1389
Posted:I don't hold anything against DJ Dan for his thoughts. Those are his own, and we can't make him change. I may dissagree with him on these topics, but I dont think we can't talk about it.

If I have to start another thread, I will. If I need to take it to PMs, tell me (I deemed it okay to approach pubically).

All I want to know is why his opinion is such. That is simply my opinion, and my situation. His are different. But because it is a topic so close to me, I wish to understand why his opinions are such. (and possibly varifying facts?)

I sincerely hope this doesn't stir up anything that has to be watched carefully by moderators, and gets people really upset about it. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but even this board has changed, and sometimes I think I shouldn't say what I think because people tend to be less tolerant than they say frown But that is always in life too. People will be people, we are all only humans (dispite what some of us may claim to be!! ubbrollsmile)

I'm all off topic again!!! offtopic

Sowwie! *scuttles away to finish laundry*

~ Bobo


wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier

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Mand
Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada
Member Since: 24th Oct 2003
Total posts: 2317
Posted:Ok, sorry NYC.

But you never did answer my question (the first one- not the one about the closet!)



Skul- no, dont apologise!

Thank you, and Im glad you feel that way.



DJ Dantana- In amongst all the extremely insulting comments you made about homosexuals, this comment about marriage actually stood out the strongest to me

Written by:
The purpose of marriage is to have babies, thus humanity can continue to exist.



If this is your only purpose of marriage, then you must have an amazingly lonely existence.

What about all the couples who marry, and either choose not to have children, or cant have children for medical reasons? Does their marriage suddenly have no purpose?





Written by:
"and not the genetic dead end that is a homosexual couple.

the 1% of the population who is Homosexual and produces NO benefit for the perservation of humanity

Tax bennefits are ment to encourage marriage which encourages babies which encourage humanity to not go extinct.



I hate to drag you out of whatever sheltered, imaginary world youre living in, but the human race is not going to become extinct because of homosexuals!



The planets total population increases every year by roughly 87 million people (a figure that rises every year). A recent joint study by the US National Academy of Sciences and the British Royal Society states that the planets total population is estimated to double by 2050.



Some countries have taken drastic measures in an attempt to reduce their population- the most well known being Chinas one child policy.



If you can explain to me how homosexuals not having children can have a damaging effect on a current population of 6,500,000,000 Id be extremely interested.





Written by:
Gay couples are jealouse of these tax benefits.



Errrrrr. Are we?

Ive never heard of a gay couple bitching about not receiving the same tax benefits as a straight couple.

Were not in this for the money! Were in this because of the person we love.



Ok, the stories vary from couple to couple, but see this one from my point of view

As Spitfire has already said, Im British and shes an American.

Every 90 days we have to pay out between $500 and $1300, to fly me back to the UK for a while.

Every 90 days, for almost a month at a time, the only contact we have is the internet and expensive phone calls.

Every 90 days I have to say goodbye to all my friends and my partner, and go to stay at my parents house with only the dog for company.

Every 90 days we have the huge worry that, for some reason, immigration isnt going to let me back into the country. (I mean, it only takes my immigration officer to be such a narrow minded person as you, and I can be led away in handcuffs and put back on a plane to the UK.)

If anything serious happens to Kim whilst Im over here, the likelihood is that I wont be allowed to see her in the hospital.

And you say were jealous of tax benefits???

We couldnt give a censored about tax benefits!

EDITED_BY: Mand (1100814593)


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:[Psst... Mand, are you familiar with Dan's views on life, the universe, and everything? Um... how do I put this politically correctly.... I don't think you're going to get anywhere with him. I don't think a Mand-Dan conversation on the could possibly end in a happy place. I think it will only lead to exacerbation and frustration. I mean, who am I to say anything, but if you're feeling peppy and politically active I can reccommend some more effective and rewarding ways to spend your time. And, PS, I would totally marry you to get you in the country but I need my US nationality status for another. wink ]

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:We are aware....it wasn't hard to figure it out, what with his wording:

"...you homosexuals..."

Those two words set the tone. I am a fairly tolerant person for the most part, but I am not tolerant of ignorance and small-mindedness.

Having inflexible values and beliefs is a handicap, in my mind. You don't try to understand where the other party is coming from because they are WRONG, and that's it.

I've tried understanding the other point of view, having many conversations with my Mom....and I am willing to make a compromise, and call it something other than gay marriage...that would be fine by me...for now....so long as I was guaranteed the rights and privileges as she and my dad.

I'm running in circles again, aren't I?


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Delete

Mand
Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada
Member Since: 24th Oct 2003
Total posts: 2317
Posted:NYC- yeah, actually I think you're totally correct.
For some reason these threads keep coming up on HoP. The same arguments go round and round.
The whole thing gets repetative, and everyone knows that nobody is going to agree.

I just resent the fact that someone who probably doesn't know any gay/ bi people, tries to put an image across that we're all greedy, money grabbing people, who are set on trying to destroy the earth's population.
(Hey, hang on- haven't I just described the Republican party?) wink


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

Delete

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