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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I keep forgetting to ask this and now I don't have time to ask coherenlty as I need to run.

Can someone explain to me what the laws are for gay marriage between states and in federal terms?

Can a married gay couple in Massachusets (where gay marriage is legal) claim 'marriage' on their federal income tax? Can they on their Massachusets state income tax? If they move to Texas, can they claim it on their Texas state income tax?

What ARE the actual laws at this moment?

Health insurance in gay 'friendly' states? What if the insurance company is national? What about employment?

Grr... bell just rang... gotta run.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Another thing: as it stands, certain houses of worship refuse to perform certain marriages that are perfectly legal under the law. For example, some Rabbis refuse to marry a Jew and a non-Jew.

I wonder what those who oppose gay unions would say to that?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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flying_on_fire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2006

member
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 29
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning


Another thing: as it stands, certain houses of worship refuse to perform certain marriages that are perfectly legal under the law. For example, some Rabbis refuse to marry a Jew and a non-Jew.

I wonder what those who oppose gay unions would say to that?



(please dont take this as a perfectly knowlagable reply)
I think there is a law somewhere in the Jewish teaching that actually does forbid the marriage of a Jew and a non Jew, but only applys one way Jewish man to non Jewish woman, as far as my recolection goes.
Dont use this in an argument with a Jew, I am not Jewish and dont know their rules well enough to be a reliable source wink


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flying_on_fire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2006

member
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 29
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning


That's why I'd like to see "marriage" done away with entirely and have the government take care of civil unions and houses of worship do the marriages.




wait a sec there doc, i thought that marriages were done in houses of worship, and the government does grant civil unions (this being done at registry offices).
its mainly the people who get it wrong and claim that they are married after a civil union is given, noone however has corrected this misunderstanding so its known as a civil marriage though it isnot a marriage at all !!!!!!! ubblol


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: flying_on_fire



Dont use this in an argument with a Jew, wink



Got it. Let us know if you see any jews around and we'll quickly switch arguements. Or throw them down the well, whatever's easier.

ubblol


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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flying_on_fire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2006

member
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 29
Posted:lol

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:NYC, the preferred method of disposal is gas chambers, crowded cattle cars, and burning stakes.

Ovens work, too.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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teeny_tiny_gnome


teeny_tiny_gnome

Member
Location: Somerset

Total posts: 28
Posted:This isn't so much to do with gay marriages but more the gay issue as a whole. Im not saying im for or against (i sit on the wall its comfier) but i believe it gets people discussing

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html


The love shack is a little ol place where we can get together.....

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flying_on_fire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2006

member
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 29
Posted:im intrigued did she answer these questions, if so do u have a link biggrin

btw the new testament actually cancels most of that through christ! not much use for them though because they dont believe the new testament to be the word of god.


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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:Bloody St. Paul and his bigotry and apocalyptic beliefs...

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:flying, to quote Susan B. Anthony:

"I mistrust those who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice how it always coincides with their own desires."

One can justify anything, including murder, with the Bible. Lord knows it's been done. The Catholic Church had dungeons and torture instruments.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:so now we must condemn them forever
that makes great sense
also to ms anthony-
i want to wait until marriage and lose bfs over this
i want to only date men because the act of homosexuality is looked down on
i want to go to church every sunday, even if i am hung over as all get out
i want to respect my parents at all times even though i truly wish to strangle them at points in my life
i want to go into debt because i could lie and steal easily, but God said no
i want to tithe that money i can ill afford
i want never to swear despite some people so deserving it
i want to let the man who killed my cousin get off scott free and not do anything to him
i want to deny my jealousy over other peoples success while continue to fail

i could keep going but i hope the point has been made


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: faithinfire


i want to only date men because the act of homosexuality is looked down on



You'll probably want to avoid blacks as well since our society tends to look down upon them as well.

rolleyes


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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wonderloey


wonderloey

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates

Total posts: 255
Posted:Faith, I understand where you are coming from...

I made a choice between my faith and my sexuality.. I chose my sexuality, because after years of attempting to change my sexuality to fit my faith, I was still unhappy, still not able to function on a happy and satisfied level.

I want to live a life where I am spiritually fulfilled, and am also able to share my life with someone on a deep personal level.

I only want to date women, because I want to be me. I hold no grudges against the church that doesn't believe that my sexuality is an integral part of my humanity. I just ask that it keep its claws off my life, the way I live it, and who I choose to spend it with.

Which is why we should ditch civil marriage altogether. I think that if marriage is to overcome its patriachal history (women as property to be transferred, which is effectively what marriage was until early last century) then we need to drastically overhaul it. We need to find ways of expressing partnerships that are inclusive, rather than exclusive, but also giving people the opportunity to express their religious beliefs..

I (now) don't give a damn about having a religious wedding... but I would love to have some kind of union recognised by the state, if only to stop some of the legal wrangling that is inevitable in the current state of play.

My choices


"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman

Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted: Written by: NYC



 Written by: faithinfire



i want to only date men because the act of homosexuality is looked down on





You'll probably want to avoid blacks as well since our society tends to look down upon them as well.



rolleyes



sweetheart, the whole thing was sarcasm...not white person, well, half white, the whole minority thing is not an issue



as for my sexuality, i figure if i have half the population to date....i still have a little fun, i just don't date...overall i feel whole and don't feel like i am missing anything ubbrollsmile

EDITED_BY: faithinfire (1164637720)


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:Then that is your choice, and I would never dream of saying otherwise. The point is still that others do not take the live and let live attitude that you do, and use the Bible which was written by men on behalf of their God as a basis to subjugate others who do not believe as they do.

Yes we see how much you've sacrificed for your God, and well done to you, but the point that Doc was making was that as the Bible is so open to interpretation (the "what God means..." idea) that it can be used by zealots to push whatever agenda they like in the name of God. So therefore using all the Leviticus/Exodus malarky, or the bigotted writings of a man who honestly believed the apocalypse was to come in his lifetime, to oppress others, to make life miserable for them, or simply to make a ridiculously large pile of cash, in the case of tele-Evangelicals.

But I have to say, through my own experience and through Loey's, is that pretending to be something you're not in the name of God can only bring unhappiness, which is what it is all about, hey? Peace and joy and love?


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:ok i was commenting on the susan b anthony quote, that is that people seem to think that the whole faith in God makes life easier
who says anyone is pretending anything


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:Loey did, and I did. We both had to pretend for the sake of religion. To find happiness with someone we'd have had to have pretended to be straight.

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:ok thought you were referencing me
too stubborn to pretend biggrin


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: faithinfire


ok thought you were referencing me
too stubborn to pretend biggrin



faith - this is a fairly personal question so please feel free to tell me to mind my own business if you don't want to discuss such things.
i would just like to understand better why someone of your sexual orientation and general attitude to life would choose catholicism.
i am not here to judge.

are you open with your congregation about your sexual orientation?

and do/would you confess any intercourse you might have had (homo, bi or hetero) as a sin, or do you abstain from such practices because your religion dictates it?


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:first, in general, i believe sexuality is a private matter and i do not discuss it no matter my relationship's orientation...the first time i came out about my orientation, the lesbian who was talking got so angry...it was very humorous. i didn't fit what she thought i was
the only time i do talk about is in conversations such as this
overall, i do abstain from sexual contact, but i confess (when i do redface) all contact...
i do not profess to be a good catholic, but one that tries.
when i was looking around before getting confirmed (i could have chosen not to be catholic in my family-they wouldn't be happy but i could have been something else), i felt that this one was the right one. i looked at theologies, philosophies, doctrines, and all that
you shouldn't pick a religion because it fits your lifestyle, you pick a religion because at your core you feel that it is right. then, you strive to become the person your faith believes all people can be (ex: saints).


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:thank-you.



its a way of life that is still hard for me to understand but i think for most people, different ways of living are hard to understand.



its why tolerance seems like such a hard thing to come by sometimes.



much respect.





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:yup
the judge not and then go out and proclaim, those are hard, i just don't talk about it till it comes up
you could secularize for an example
some people do this
you have issues with the country you live in, the laws are limiting and you don't agree with them all. sometimes you even break them, even though you could get in trouble. you may even accidentally break a law. maybe you end up hurting people accidentally.
do you modify your life in some ways to be a better citizen and accept possible consequences in others because there are somethings you cannot give up-speeding, a puff, jaywalking, etc
or do you find a new country and get citizenship there that fits what you want to fit. then, you go around saying how great a citizen you are because you follow all the laws...
(i know some of us would do the second)
perhaps a poor metaphor and perhaps offtopic shrug


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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wonderloey


wonderloey

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates

Total posts: 255
Posted: Written by: faithinfire

first, in general, i believe sexuality is a private matter [/Quote]

However, in society, it isn't. Sexuality is more than what happens in the bedroom. Its more than who you'd like to jump and who you wouldn't. Its about the families you form, about who you go to the prom with.

Society has a vested interest in heterosexuality, and works hard (albeit unconcsiously, by most people) to keep it as the norm.

The very reasony why I don't come clean immediately with people I meet as to my sexuality is because anything outside the norm is not accepted with the ease that heterosexuality is.

 Written by: faithinfire

the first time i came out about my orientation, the lesbian who was talking got so angry...it was very humorous. i didn't fit what she thought i was[/Quote]

The flipside is that by labelling homosexuality as deviant behaviour, lots of gay people take that deviance to be essential to their identity, and will attack people that don't fit into the gay/straight dichotomy, and don't see sexuality as an incredibly complex set of physical and social impulses. Stupid, but understandable.

I'm sorry you had that kind of reaction. hug

Thanks for your honesty on this forum, I guess I'm somewhat flummoxed by your need to hide who you are. That's not a criticism.. just my reaction.


"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman

Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.

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shonnie


member
Location: Sydney,NSW

Total posts: 79
Posted:i think there is no problem about it at all n the ppl who dnt accept it have a problem about there own sexuality.

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:it's not hiding
i don't go around with PDAs with my bf either...sides the fact that i hang out with so many guys most people probably assume that i date all of them and i'm a hussy, but it isn't important
i just don't care what people think, and i am not a public person about what i see my private life


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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shonnie


member
Location: Sydney,NSW

Total posts: 79
Posted:but then other ppl are diff.. str8 couples go around kissin in public y is it diff for a gay couple to??
so ppl r jus more public then others...


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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:Shonnie, that's not really the issue, it's about the position of religion in affecting how I live my life, and how its influence over the government could affect (if I was an American) my right to the same legal rights in my relationship with my partner as I would have if I was straight. (p.s there're a lot of people to whom English is not their first language, so please use full words and not abbreviated text speak)

What I'd like to do would be to ask your position, Faith, on your views on gay relationships in general.


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:personally, of course, they don't work for me because in my faith relationships are to lead toward marriage and we know where i stand on marriage so...
now others don't believe in the same thing, so i can't disagree with gay relationships...and with civil unions, i don't really have a problem for the same reason...
their choice and their relationship, once again i see it as a sexuality thing, not a lifestyle thing
right now, the whole of it is sort of hot and there is a lot of misinformation out there
i go on a relationship by relationship basis...
i've met some nice couples and some that had a twisted lifestyle (NAMBLA) sort of thing
i've known people who "turned" gay and then "turned back"
as a whole there seems to be a whole problem with people being "bi" because it is popular
in general i withold judgement


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted: Written by: faithinfire


their choice and their relationship, once again i see it as a sexuality thing, not a lifestyle thing



Sorry Faith, just looking for clarification on what you mean.


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:now...
damn choice as in belief system not as in sexuality


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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