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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I keep forgetting to ask this and now I don't have time to ask coherenlty as I need to run.

Can someone explain to me what the laws are for gay marriage between states and in federal terms?

Can a married gay couple in Massachusets (where gay marriage is legal) claim 'marriage' on their federal income tax? Can they on their Massachusets state income tax? If they move to Texas, can they claim it on their Texas state income tax?

What ARE the actual laws at this moment?

Health insurance in gay 'friendly' states? What if the insurance company is national? What about employment?

Grr... bell just rang... gotta run.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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SpitFire
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2002
Total posts: 2723
Posted:Yes, it is absurd to go that far, Dio, I will definitely agree.

You can't always blame it on the mother, nor can you always blame it on the left wing nutballs...of which I'd probably fit your definition. smile

The folks who are pushing so hard to put "Christ" back into Christmas are as guilty of it as those who want to be 100% politically correct, even if it borders on absurd. There is a middle ground that both sides are overlooking. I'm not persecuiting the majority, but I do have problems with, and take offense at people who try to push their religious beliefs on others..

You are right, things are changing in a big way. The world "liberal" is almost equated with "unpatriotic," and if you speak out against God, then you're not a true American.

I see a dangerous road ahead of the US...one where the government will become less secular. Worse case? The US sanctions Christianity. What about all of us non-Christians? We aren't bad people...we just have other beliefs and ideals. The Foudning fathers did not want the Government to sanction religion.

Yes, many of the Founding Fathers were Christian, but their wording in the constitution is fairly clear. I get defensive when people try to re-interpret what is fairly clear language.

There is middle ground....I don't understand why it's so hard to compromise on this. It's probably related to the same reason why I don't understand why super evangelical Christians can't respect my beliefs as I respect theirs. I've had people tell me my beliefs are wrong, and I'm going to Hell. Luckily for me, I don't believe in Hell. Some, in their prosteletizing, etc, seem to judge others who don't actively worship, or have different beliefs....the ironic thing? According to their religion, there is only one Being worthy enough to judge men, and that's God.

I'm rambling, and we've strayed way off topic, but I hear you about going too to keep things secular, but this group is going too far the other way, and will trample the rights of those who are not Christian without a second thought.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:spitfire, funny you should mention christmas, i sort of started a phase at the beginning of the week about renouncing christmas(i made a thread about it somewhere). basically what i said was christmas wasnt for christ anymore, hence i can understand why people would want to put him back in there, although their methods are way out of line. chirstmas nowadays, as The Bovrilmonkey stated,"it's all about how much loot you find in your stocking". This is what annoys me, where capitalist groups are profeteering on a holy celebration. Also, the christmas spirit isnt about giving and sharing, if it was people should be collecting money in communities(i'm talking LOTS of money) and sending it to countries where it is actually needed, instead of buying an electronic gadget for their niece or nephew(which if they were kind enough they could buy for them any time of the year). What i'm saying about christmas is that people need to reiterate their values to either the true meaning of christmas (christ) or always follow the eleged christmas spirit all year around to prove that they actually believe in the spirit and aren't just suckered in by corporations.

i'd also like to pointout again that people and religions are two seperate identities, i think if people understand this there will be a lot more understanding in the world. single people must individually take the journey themselves, sure they can stop for advice on the way but they need to keep it relivant to where they are going. while it is ok for people to get together and discuss their alike or different understandings and beliefs it should only be in that situation where it is discussed. and it should ONLY be discussed, never argued. arguement only causes bigger problems.


after that rant, and getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic, yeh, gay issues?
biggrin


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)
enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Member Since: 8th Jun 2004
Total posts: 456
Posted:1. The Framers of the Constitution were mostly NOT Christian.

2. I am not offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas. I think it's more likely for a Christian to be offended if I wish hir a Happy Solstice. (Christians are occasionally subject to the delusion that THEIR holidays are for everyone, but other people's are weird and specific and somehow anti-Christian.) BTW, Yule is tomorrow morning at 7:32 (that's US December 21, and Eastern Standard Time).

3. 'Xmas' certainly doesn't leave Christ out of Christmas. X is a common scribal shorthand for 'Christ', even in medieval manuscripts; sometimes with 'p', sometimes without. So 'Christos' might be written 'Xps' (remember it's scribal shorthand, not regular substitution). Why do I know this? What's my name?

4. The reason that public entities are not permitted to have Christian celebrations IN THE UNITED STATES is that we have a very firm rule separating church from state. There are people trying to erode that, and they argue that a creche is a traditional seasonal decoration, and that it's a trivial thing. It isn't. It's a step on the slippery slope toward a state religion, and in this country it will be one that thinks I should be executed (not just for my sex life (ha! like I have one) but for practicing Witchcraft as well.

5. That said, I think banning red and green is just plain stupid, especially since those colors (holly berries and leaves respectively) come from the part the Christians drew from the Pagan celebrations they were coopting in Europe as they converted the populace. (BTW Christmas wasn't set as December 25 until 354 CE, and wasn't even celebrated until about 200 CE; internal evidence in the Bible, coupled with what we know about the times, suggest that the events depicted in Luke 4 took place in August of 4 BCE.)

6. To bring this all back to the topic of Gay Marriage: this is another Church/State issue. If the state weren't trying to enforce the Sinai Triad's* ban on same-sex marriage (MY religion has no such ban, for example) Gay Marriage wouldn't even be an issue. I contend that the state has no right to deny me marriage rights because some other religion (albeit one with a large majority in this country) says I shouldn't have them. That violates my right to worship as I see fit.

*'the Sinai Triad' = Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in all their forms. Essentially, all the religions that claim (spiritual) descent from Abraham.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:(slightly off topic, but when haven't we been?)

the Sinai from sinai triad would be refering to the place of origin wouldn't it?

just asking, dont smite!


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:I think so Mr Majestik.

Mount Sinai in Egypt is where Moses is reputed to have been given the 10 commandments.


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)
enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Member Since: 8th Jun 2004
Total posts: 456
Posted:Yes, Mr M. And if I smite you, you'll know when you've been smitten! But I don't smite lightly, and never for purely factual questions.

"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Lillie Frog
Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales
Member Since: 31st May 2004
Total posts: 558
Posted:Yay!

Happy Solstice for tuesday, Xopher. (and anyone else who noticed how short the day was. Except for Australia & NZ, where you would have noticed how long it was instead)

(I wasn't here then to say it, so it's late, sorry)


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:yay for long summer daze, yay for being non-smitten!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Pah. It started to get dark at 3.30pm here!!

Getting to the other side smile

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:thats why all fire twirlers should move to Australia in their winter! although that would maximise available burning time, as long as its not freezing

tongue you know tomorrow its forcast to be 25 degrees and sunny, beatufil chirstmas day tongue


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)
enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Member Since: 8th Jun 2004
Total posts: 456
Posted:I assume you mean 25C. 25F is damn chilly for midsummer!

"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:that would be correct, hoorah for the logical metric system where 100 degrees is the boiling point

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:so south africa is passing a bill
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061115/wl_nm/africa_gay_dc_1
br>just thought i would share


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:linky no worky...

Love is the law.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:works for me aiden... confused



clap to south africa.





although some of those reactions disgust me frown





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:dunno.. works now...

you spelled my name wrong though.. wink


Love is the law.

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Un-African?!



Most life started on Pangea (sic) and Africa was the epicentre and most life comes from there. Animals partake in exclusive homosexuality so it can't be something that they picked up on a trip to Europe or the US....



shrug


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Interesting article.

I wonder what the political agenda is behind it.
I thought it was sad how a couple of them feel it will make no difference and will actually make the persecution worse.

And the ignorance was astounding. A big flood will come and bring the end of the world because they legalized gay marriages? confused Makes me think I'm in Mississippi. wink


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:same thing
there is a bumper sticker that says something like "keep your laws off my body"
i want one that says "keep your laws off my religion"
i know unpopular view and not revamping past discussions
just thought in the interest of those who get their news from hop that this would be important


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: faithinfire


"keep your laws off my religion"




Wouldn't that be the anti-gay marriage law bumper sticker?


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:well...obviously you have not been paying attention

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Ah... got it.

You somehow imply tolerance every now and then and that confuses me.

Sorry.

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:I'm gonna have to stick up for Faithinfire here, It's her beliefs, and I know she's not homophobic, she's told us herself her feelings on homosexuality and about her before, so I'm not too fussed.

I don't agree with you on a lot of things Faith, but you're fully wecome to your views and your right to say them!


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:yay
i didn't get beat up
clapbounceclap


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:I have read articles by fundamentalist Christians complaining that society was repressing their right to repress non-fundamentalist Christians (seriously). I wouldn't be surprised to hear if the fundamentalist Muslims were making simalar claims.

I'm actually quite surprised that South Africa passed the bill, and by quite a large margin. Traditionaly Africa has been quite hostile to homosexuals. I guess perhaps South Africans are much more aware of the immorality of repression after appartheid.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Drudwyn


I'm gonna have to stick up for Faithinfire here, It's her beliefs, and I know she's not homophobic, she's told us herself her feelings on homosexuality and about her before, so I'm not too fussed.




If one doesn't believe that gays should have the same rights as heterosexuals, is that homophobia?

Serious question here. Not being sarcastic.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Sometimes the types of behavoiur that people claim as a "right" really amaze me. Just who supposedly awarded the right to oppress non-fundamentalists ? Oh wait..... I think I can guess.

You nailed it there Jeff, South Africa's post apartheid constitution was drafted around a spirit of equality and non-discrimination.


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Dr_Molly
Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home
Member Since: 4th May 2004
Total posts: 2354
Posted:Apparently veterans of the African National Congress themselves have equated the bill with "liberation from the shackles of apartheid" (according to my free New York paper I got on the subway) smile

I do think the term 'intolerant' can be very reasonably applied to people who would not tolerate something without it being an attack. Just because it may be seen as an undesirable description of oneself doesn't make it less true. shrug

But from previous lengthy discussion here here I think it was mostly a case of confused semantics anyway.


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: faithinfire



i want one that says "keep your laws off my religion"





surely its a bit late for that - divorce is already legal in the u.s.



and as i understand it, catholic dogma states that a marriage under god is indissoluble?



source





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: NYC


 Written by: Drudwyn


I'm gonna have to stick up for Faithinfire here, It's her beliefs, and I know she's not homophobic, she's told us herself her feelings on homosexuality and about her before, so I'm not too fussed.




If one doesn't believe that gays should have the same rights as heterosexuals, is that homophobia?

Serious question here. Not being sarcastic.



good question NYC. (I still hate you wink )

I guess homophobia can be defined as a fear or dislike of homosexuals.

Surely wanting to limit what a gay person can do is born of a fear/dislike of them / their activities?


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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