• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 
Page: 123456...9
NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I keep forgetting to ask this and now I don't have time to ask coherenlty as I need to run.

Can someone explain to me what the laws are for gay marriage between states and in federal terms?

Can a married gay couple in Massachusets (where gay marriage is legal) claim 'marriage' on their federal income tax? Can they on their Massachusets state income tax? If they move to Texas, can they claim it on their Texas state income tax?

What ARE the actual laws at this moment?

Health insurance in gay 'friendly' states? What if the insurance company is national? What about employment?

Grr... bell just rang... gotta run.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete Topic

Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:I'm not a Lesbian, but I'll hazard a guess: they don't mind it much more than you mind being hit on by guys!

"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

Delete

SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:So long as the guy doesn't mind getting rejected. wink

Seriously though....

Eh, personally, I'm not too keen on guys hitting on me once they know I'm gay and have a girlfriend. If, after learning either of these two facts, they persist, it just seems pushy. I don't like pushy.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Delete

Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:Written by: Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)

No, I'm afraid that's not correct. You get a "Marriage License" when you go to the county. Then it must be solemnized, under rules that vary from state to state; clergy are one of the types of people who can solemnize.

I know this because I've solemnized several marriages myself; and in New Jersey, I have to sign the Marriage License. (Didn't know I was clergy? Well, now you do.)

I am completely against any religious institution, or solemnizer, being forced to perform any solemnization it, or he or she, is uncomfortable with. I, for example, won't marry people who aren't at least willing to CLAIM they love each other. And my religion does same-sex marriages with no distinction (flak in some quarters, but they're the minority). In fact we don't usually call it a wedding; it's a "handfasting." But once I and the witnesses sign the document, it's a "marriage" according to the state.



This, I did not know.

Would it be satisfactory if everyone, including heterosexual couples, had to file for a "Legal Union" License? Making some concessions on both sides tends to get more progress than forcing any one side to accept the other's views.

I wasn't trying to be argumentative, and I'm certain now you're experienced with the issue (yes, didn't know you were clergy but it's awesome to know you're involved in that job), but your earlier post seemed very, I dunno... like I could envision you pounding your fist as you said it? I'm just saying that it would be much easier if the legal and religious elements of a lifelong partnership were separated such that the government COULD allow the legal half for everyone without the religious right stepping in over their part of it and turning the issue into a circus.

And say civil unions are legalized, and a gay-friendly church begins performing marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples to symbolize those civil unions... would that not be a "married" couple in all the ways, shapes and forms (and semantics)?

My belief (so you don't think I'm disagreeing with you over this, because I'm not) is that the government could only give so much to homosexuals legally, and that expecting it to award them with affairs of religious institutions (or to deny them in the first place) isn't within their jurisdiction. That being said, I think they currently are way too deep into those same affairs as it stands now, probably because it was never an issue until just recently in US history that the possibility of a legal union not being a religious "marriage" could exist, so the government has "marriage" written into the rulebooks (like you had stated above, re: forms, licenses and legal status).


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Delete

Socks
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Socks

Arf! Can I have a biscut?
Location: North America, Mid West, USA

Total posts: 288
Posted:I'd settle for the rights to help the one I love in times they can not speak for themselves. The rest is merely ceremony to tell the world what two people aready know.

I'm weird. Just work through that and we'll all be fine.

"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater suggest that he wear a tail." - Fran Lebowitz

Delete

Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Austral...

Total posts: 1107
Posted:Just on the slight aside of marriage and children thing: I don't know if it is still the case, but certainly up until 10 years ago (the last time I cared enough to look), under UK Catholic marriage law, if a couple, one of which couldn't have children didn't tell the other party prior to the marriage it was grounds for annullment. There was a similar thing with people who didn't have any intention of having children though I don't remember now whether that was an anullment thing or whether it simply wasn't considered valid by the Church.

Things might have changed. You can only hope it moves with the times.

Inceidentally, if you look at the book of the Bible that bans homosexuality (Leviticus) it also bans some other things too: clothes woven of two different materials (some versions specify cotten and linen, though others don't, and personally I agree that polycotten should be considered spawn of Satan); fields sown with two types of plants and a whole heap more fun things that aren't considered an issue. I don't see why this does anymore.

As MiG pointed out, a gay marriage ain't going to affect me and I hope that Spitfire, Mand and everyone else that it will, can have a positive outcome to this.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

Delete

towery
GOLD Member since Nov 2004

towery

Member
Location: Wakayama-ken, USA

Total posts: 32
Posted:Fine distinction here on Leviticus and the rest of the Bible: in the entirety of the book, nowhere is homosexuality named a sin--only gay sex. If you wanna ask the religious-right theologians, you only need look so far as James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family. In his book, "Life On the Edge," which my aunt gave me for my 16th birthday, there's a section where it is clearly stated that while homosexual sex is roundly condemned in the Bible, there is nothing actually immoral in simply BEING gay. It seems like hair-splitting, I know, but once you recognize this fact and observe the attitude of many fundamentalists on this issue, it becomes very apparent how much theirs is a mindset of denial rather than fulfillment, shame rather than self-respect, and fear of the unknown rather than love and understanding.



As for the rest of Leviticus, I think we all know how ridiculous and hypocritical the use of that particular scripture is in condemnation of homosexuals. I really wanna see the Christian legalistic moralists send their wives to bleeding camps once a month, and all of the other things in that book that even they will call "outdated" or "culturally inappropriate" for our modern lives. Not too likely, I'd imagine...


"To my delight, I discovered that poi are amazing movement exploration tools. They are guides. They are teachers. They are like Yoda, only smaller and on strings." --Nick Woolsey, also known as Meenik

Delete

_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:I realise this is a bit irreverent for the tone of this thread... it's one of those email thingmes I was sent recently... but I thought it correlated some of the more amusing Biblical verses.


Dear President Bush,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. As you said, "In the eyes of God, marriage is between a man and a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination . . . end of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's laws and how to follow them:

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that a man is allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness-- Leviticus 15:19-24. The problem is, most women take offence when asked if they're unclean.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord--Leviticus 1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there degrees of abomination?

7. Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20 or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton-polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Leviticus 24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, as we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Leviticus 20:14)?

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters - so I am confident that you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.


Getting to the other side smile

Delete

vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:that was truely beautiful, thanks for sharing it firepoise!

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

Delete

Prometheus


Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Total posts: 459
Posted:That's the funny thing about religion, especially christianity, it's rules are so vague and inconsistent that they can be used to condemn anything, but the bright side is, those same rules can be used to defend anything as well.

Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

Delete

Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:I love that thing.



The only people I know of who really keep all the rules (and even they don't sell their kids into slavery) are the Hasidic Jews. They really don't wear blended fabrics, though as I read that bit it would also ban wearing a cotton shirt with a wool suit, which they will do.



I'm pretty sure the sacrifice thing is a bit off, though. Jewish sacrifices* can only be made in the Temple, which has been destroyed and cannot be rebuilt without starting WWIII (the former site is now the Dome of the Rock, one of the holiest sites in Islam). Perhaps this is a post-Levitican reform, however, and if so that STILL makes the same point, doesn't it?



Anyway, it's long been held that the restrictions enumerated in Leviticus don't apply to Christians. So while the people having a Defense of Marriage Pig Roast and Lobster Dinner are hypocrites, it's not because they AREN'T keeping the rules, but because they expect their neighbors to keep the rules more strictly than they do themselves.



And Dio, as long as Adam and Steve get the same document and the same status as Joe and Mary, I don't give a rolling donut what it's called. The point is equality. No more, no less. I'm pretty sure we agree on that part.



*unless you count Kosher butchering, which Jews do not, but anthropologists would.

EDITED_BY: Xopher (aka Mr. Clean) (1102099559)


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

Delete

vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:doesn't the messiah return if that temple ever does get rebuilt?

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

Delete

Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:Written by: Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)

The point is equality. No more, no less. I'm pretty sure we agree on that part.



Absolutely, my friend. I'm just trying to figure out the way everyone can agree on that biggrin


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Delete

SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:That is the question, isn't it, Dio?

Of course, you have the problem of those folks who don't think we should be entitled to civil unions either.

Put them in our shoes, and let them walk a mile...then see what they think of being second class citizens.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Delete

Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:vanize - the coming of the Messiah (remember, Jews don't believe the Messiah has ever come yet) is supposed to cause the restoration of the Temple, not the other way around, IIRC.



Dio, I'm afraid I agree with SpitFire. The whole point of all these "protection of marriage" laws is that they DON'T want us to have the same rights they do. They want to keep us in a separate category, because they're "good" people and we're "bad."



I remember hearing a KKK rally participant yell "at least we're white!" (My thought was yeah, well, so's bird poop.) It's the same thing. Some people just have to have someone who's kept down so they won't feel so low.



Also, they want to keep castigating us for having sex outside of marriage. (Like there are still straight couples who don't do that...and maybe there are, but I don't know any.) If they let us get married, what then?!?!?? Pandemonium, no doubt about it!



Idiots. This makes my stomach hurt.



EDITED to substitute uncensorable word.

EDITED_BY: Xopher (aka Mr. Clean) (1102354358)


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

Delete

Mand
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada

Total posts: 2317
Posted:I've just been sent this...
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1101896768316400.xml
br>
Thought people might be interested in reading it.

I'm appalled by it, but on the other hand- now I've been in America for a while, it doesn't really surprise me any more. frown


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

Delete

SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:Yeah, that's quite sad, isn't it.

I wonder when he'll start requiring gays and lesbians to wear pink triangles.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Delete

ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:That'l be as soon as he makes is law for the homosexual population to ride in seperate trains and have an alternative shower block that most people are somewhat aprehensive about entering.

Its hard to believe that people like that man exist in the world. There are so many like him though.

Our only hope is to breed them out of the gene pool.


Love is the law.

Delete

Socks
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Socks

Arf! Can I have a biscut?
Location: North America, Mid West, USA

Total posts: 288
Posted:Hey, Spitfire? Do you *know* the history of the pink triangle? I'm asking seriously. (I'm guessing "yes", but I'm a geek and I like throwing links about)



-Socks


I'm weird. Just work through that and we'll all be fine.

"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater suggest that he wear a tail." - Fran Lebowitz

Delete

SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:Yup, Socks, I do, but thanks for the link.

When I was at uni, I was part of the Gay Lesbian Bisexual Alliance, and we had a commemoration of the holocaust. Through that commemoration, I learned a lot more about what went on in Nazi Germany than I'd known previously.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Delete

Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:1) The Thatcherite junta passed a similar law in UK, only it was about "positive depictions of homosexuality in a government-owned venue" or some such. Since virtually all theatres in the UK were at least partly government owned, this effectively banned such portrayals from every stage in the UK. In theory. And I believe it's now been repealed.

2) That law will not pass Constitutional muster in the US. It's illegal to make such laws, and even our current Republican-owned Supreme Court will rule it right out.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

Delete

SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:Indeed, Xopher. Generally, people with such views don't come forward so publically. They may speak on a very local level, but such a state wide proposition? They tend to know that it won't be well received. That this man feels the climate is ok for such a suggestion is scary.

Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Delete

Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:Well, I remember when libraries would just quietly eliminate the books, and you'd have to make a fuss to get them put back. One library had an over-18 policy on certain books -- there is NO supporting law in the US about text; only pictures are so governed. Fortunately, these days librarians are true Blue by and large (after Homeland Security pissed them off royally), and want to give people, especially adolescents, whatever they want to read.

Why? Because they want to READ, and that's good.

I think that guy is just trying to garner headlines. He can't believe such a law could pass, even in Alabama.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

Delete

Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:Eh, just throw 'em on the heap of burning Harry Potter books... witchcraft is evil too, y'know wink

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Delete

SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:*smirk* Xopher, do you want to flog Dio, or should I? Wait...he might like that....*thwaps Dio*

Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Delete

Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:Or we could put a spell on him...nah, I'd have to break my oath. Not worth it.

Luv ya, Dio, you know that, right? :-)


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

Delete

Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:LOL



The feeling's mutual, I assure you hug


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Delete

Socks
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Socks

Arf! Can I have a biscut?
Location: North America, Mid West, USA

Total posts: 288
Posted:Written by: Dio

Eh, just throw 'em on the heap of burning Harry Potter books... witchcraft is evil too, y'know wink



(O/T to lighten the mood) Potter Potter Potter Potter AHH SNAPE! It's a SNAPE! ubbloco

I'm just trying to make the world a happier place. One 360 rotation at a time. ubblove


I'm weird. Just work through that and we'll all be fine.

"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater suggest that he wear a tail." - Fran Lebowitz

Delete

spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX, USA

Total posts: 2014
Posted:Looks like there is hope for Canada...

look here


Delete

SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:Yup.

Alberta might be a slight problem since the province recognizes marriage between a man and a woman. I wonder how a federal law will affect the province.

Since that is where Mand and I are hoping to move, I'm hoping a compromise can be reached at the very least.


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

Delete

Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:Page on which US states do what wrt Gay Marriage.



Basically, 42 states define marriage as between one man and one woman, 16 by constitution, the rest by statute. Five states have no definition of marriage and no special provisions. Two (Vermont and New Jersey) provide civil unions. One (Massachusetts) recognizes same-sex marriage.

EDITED_BY: Xopher (aka Mr. Clean) (1102630697)


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

Delete

Page: 123456...9

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [gay marriage] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > US Gay marriage questions [262 replies]
2. Forums > Gay marriage across the glode [8 replies]
3. Forums > Gay marriage [59 replies]
4. Forums > A thought on gay marriage [24 replies]
5. Forums > Gay Marriage Legal in SF [23 replies]

     Show more..