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Posted:Poi is somthing newly discovered by me, I took it up as somthing I could claim gracefulness to,I am quite a clumsy person.No body else did it so it made me feel good. A Boy in my area who took interest and I started showing him moves as I wanted to pass this on to other people, I do like being a teacher. He has now taken everything I taught him and claimed it as his own. He gives no credit for the teaching and it makes me feel horrible. I worked hard to learn what I taught him. He's started showing other people who have absolutly no respect toward me and try to show off to me. THEY are calling ME the copy cat. I know it sounds kind of stupid but I guess I wanted some credit for what I learned because I had to learn it by myself. Its easier to learn with someone teaching you then by yourself. This new found hobby of mine was somthing speacial to me, its part of what made me unique, and it was stolen. I don't know what I can do, I just feel like crapThanks for any insight you may be able to enlighten me with.

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Jesse


member
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA

Total posts: 118
Posted:My dear,That's always a horrible situation to be in, and I'm sure that most of us have been there at one time or another, whether it had do do with poi specifically or not. I'm not sure how much help I can offer you about correcting the situation in progress, but I can offer a bit of comfort, I think. 1. This person's only learning tool may be you, and if you continue to learn and grow in this sport/hobby/art people will eventually see who the true master is. So far you have had to teach yourself, so you understand how difficult the reasearch/self teaching process can be. You have already proven that you have the patience and stick-to-itive-ness (I'm sure there's a word for that, but it just isn't coming to me right now...) it takes to get through that process.2. Attention seekers like this person you mentioned usually do not have what it takes to go very far once the going gets tough. You will continue to learn and grow, and he will be stuck in the same place without resources to learn more moves. The people who admire this person now, will soon see him for what he is when he starts stealing their moves too.3. You must realize that poi is a fad just like body-piercing and tatooing. Either you love it, or you're just doing it to be cool. If you love poi for what it is, then you will be around to enjoy it with the rest of us, even after the attention seekers have burnt out (if you'll excuse the pun). You will be a poi god/goddess while this person ends up looking like a sororrity sister with a bad tatoo on her ass from the night she got drunk and decided to pretend she was a badass. Feel free to email me if you want to talk about it, or even just vent a bit. epickens@freemarkets.com

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:I hear that, upset! I am totally self taught too and when I show other people moves, it drives me crazy to see them pick it up in a really short time. stuff that I had to figure for myself required much trial and error and mountains of patience. it's slightly frustrating to see someone else do it so easily. I'm not sure how I justify it to myself, but although it bugs me, it doesn't bother me, if you know what I mean.Also I try to not let plagiarism bother me too much because I've noticed that the exact same move on two different people will always be unique to the individual. As Jesse said, you're the one with style, flow and individuality.Screw what the others think. recruit some new fire friends.good luck and don't sweat the small stuff (too much).flash

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Simos


enthusiast
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 382
Posted:hey upset - no wonder why you are upset...that situation sucks!!! i am self taught as well and took me lots of patience and practise to accomplish what i have so far...i agree with flash fire that sometimes it might feel strange when teaching someone because they are learning much faster, but personally i get a satisfaction out of it!back to you upset - it seems that you don't enjoy the respect you deserve amongst this group of 'friends' (and i get the feeling that none of them is a true friend of yours)...i would try and go my separate way if i were you, at least not hang out with them so much; if they are worth it they'll see what they've done wrong and give you the respect you deserve; otherwise i wouldn't bother with them too much in the future...unless they are really good friends of yours (which i doubt) in which case you might want to have a serious chat with them and tell them how you feel about the whole thing... don't feel bad about them calling you a copy cat and stupid stuff like that; you swing your poi for your enjoyment and let them do whatever they want to; most probably they'll mess around with poi for a little while and then get bored and forget about it......and don't think that it's poi that made you unique - it's not...anyone off the street can be taught how to swing but it wouldn't make him unique - what makes you unique is the fact that you found out about it and had the patience to learn and ,yes, even the fact that you were willing to teach someone else... i think you need to think about some things over; you seem to have a low self-esteem and that's where some of these problems start from; being unique is nothing you can manage by trying hard...everyone, including you, is unique in a wonderful way and this doesn't come from a hobby itself (even Poi
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) but from that part of your character that drives you into that hobby and your true love for it - in that way you will be truly unique and not ARTIFICIALLY unique, which might unfortunately fool some people in the short run but never forget that this is just the surface - there's more into being unique than that IMHO...anyways take it easy and things will sort themselves out - don't show that you get upset ,even when they show off to you or call you a copy cat, because that will just make them do it more...just take it lightly and even joke about it...when they realize that they are not getting to you anymore they'll stop it - and most of them will quit swinging too i bet...happy swinging and good luck - i hope that helps a bit,Simos


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Simos


enthusiast
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 382
Posted:btw upset, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you???happy swinging,Simos

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Posted:hehe Upset, I know *EXACTLY* how you are feeling.I had the same thing happen to me earlier this week (although it was a Web Based solution to a very specific Educational delivery problem, not poi moves).I have found solice in the fact that is was MY mind that came up with it. it was my Creativity, and my hard work. a rip off is just that, anyone who is stupid enough to believe in the rip off isnt worth knowing anyhow.Stick to it. Poi'ing is obviously very special to you, and will remain so, as long as you dont allow other ppl to pollute what is special to you.If you keep learning and growing, you will surpass any rip off anyway. Twirling is a lot more than the sum of the moves, and I think you know that.Josh

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Posted:Upset, I'm sorry. That's so stinky. I've hard moves ripped off, but I've never had anyone claim them as their own before. (At least, not that I know of.) I would feel really badly too, if I was being ripped off like that. Lots of sage advice and viewpoint here. I'd only add that you've learned a valuable lesson here. Now you know how important it is to be extra careful in checking out potential students before taking them on. Passing poi on to other folx does no good if they don't respect it. I've had to learn that one the hard way, too. Keep at it. There's more creation where that came from! Diana

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Posted:Have you noticed something Upset?You have just found a very supportive group of ppl that believe in you.You are not alone.Perhaps you should get your ass registered and come join the HOP'ers in a big family sing-a-long?All together now;<sings>We're all swingers,All swingers from the days of old,and we'll keep swinging,and we'll keep swinging,and we'll just keep swinging,til the rip-offs fold,(..and then we'll just keep swinging)..</sings>Take it away Simos!Josh-Feeling silly

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Kat
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London, Wales (UK)

Total posts: 2211
Posted:Josh..feeling silly, but a little humour is what is needed.Until Simos adds to the 'Swinging Song', I'll help you out with a verseDancing, twirling, stomping madly,Rip-off artist swinging badlyMirror, mirror on the wallWho looks silly after all?Upset, I think that it is such a shame that you are being hassled. The only thing to do with the ignorant is ignore them. So even though it burns that you took the time and energy to learn skills and then were kind enough to pass them on - pay no heed. Keep practicing and enjoying Poi. If you want revenge, next time your 'friend' wants to learn a new move off you, teach him in front off all the other people who are accusing you of being the copy-cat. I hope you will not be put off swinging with other Poi heads.Who will have the last laugh when you see them scrambling to follow your lead? Good luckKat ------------------"London is a city coming down from its trip and there's going to be a lot of refugees" - Danny,Withnail & I

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

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TheCleaner


member
Location: phoenix, Az, USA

Total posts: 23
Posted:want me to take care or 'em
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getting even is the best way to go. Pretend that he is the all knowing master now. ask him for advice and inflate the ego to max cap. All the while be working on something much greater. (ie for me it's the goal of one day being able to light these puppies on fire and go to town) He's ego has been his creator let it be his nemesis.Focus on what you can change. You. Bottom Line.


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Simos


enthusiast
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 382
Posted:...and we'll keep on swinging,we'll just keep swinging,we are swinging our Poi in awe,and then we'll keep on swinging,we'll just keep swinging,until we all fall down on the floor!
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<it's solo time, upset gets on the stage, grabs the mike and takes it on...
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>(btw nice one Kat
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)Simos - Feeling sillier
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master ping


member
Location: derby

Total posts: 1
Posted:Sorry to hear about that, I guess a similiar situation happened to me, but on the other end. My friend from Florida showed me some twirling when I first moved here about a year ago. I've never seen it before and was totally amazed. It was hard to pick up first but now I've really progressed. I really wanted him to teach just a few moves to get started but he never did show me anything. I guess in a way its good cause now I've developed moves that he can't do. I do give credit to one person for showing me the windmill and once I got that I just really took off. The funny thing is that now I feel like I've really improved tons and he tells everyone that he taught me LOL. I would give him credit if he did but all he did was put on a show. He never showed me anything step by step and he just performed so fast I couldn't see what he was doing. Now there is whole group of us that twirl and all I did was show them a few moves to get started but the rest they have learned on there own. What I have noticed is that people like this that are into twirling for the fad and never try to invent new things are just along for the ride. They want all the credit and attention without putting forth the work ,and just stealing moves off of each other. So can this guy/gal do everything u do? Can they transition from move to move well. I feel this is where most people on the bandwagon fail. They like the moves, but can't transition. This takes style that is all their own,but since their unoriginal in the first place they still have the same routine they have now. Sorry to hear about what happened but I think others will see in the end who the real teacher is.

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Iandd


member
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 39
Posted:what on earth is this about "moves being ripped off"? Anything we learn for ourselves we should pass onto others to further the cause. This is for all, no one can retain ownership of the move. That is just ridiculous to suggest. When I see someone doing something that I have shown them I feel pleased, happy that the person is improving just as I am glad to learn and show respect for other people to see what they can teach me.Rise above it all. If the person wants to say they did it all who cares eh? Just be yourself and don't worry about it.Or are you losing the ego trip that this person is obviously on, is that a bad thing. Think about it, selfless poi.

soup!

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TaiGuy


member
Location: Yorktown, VA, USA

Total posts: 127
Posted:Ooo... that sucks man...Oh well, such is life. Why'd you show the jerk if you knew he was going to do this?Usually i try to avoid peepz that aren't my friends, or just aren't trustworthy. Another good thing i guess, is if you really are the trendstarter, make sure that peepz know you really were the first. NEhow, no one around here, dares try on their own [back to that glowstick in the eye thing i pulled off hehe... *oWcH*]. ------------------"Happiness is not a destination, but a method for life"- Burton Hills

The reason communism doesn't work is because people like to own stuff

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Bish_the_Ding


member
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Total posts: 52
Posted:Um, Tony, that funny 'L' shaped thing by the shift key is called a "carriage return", you might want to use it from time to time. Text with no breaks can be *very* intimidating ;-)As for Upset, damned right you're upset !! This is what is called a justifiable emotional response. No one likes to be taken advantage of, no one likes to be exploited, and no-one likes to be upstaged.I won't speak for anyone else on this matter, but I *always* look to others when I *acquire* new moves.I suppose it is stealing in a way -I adopt-adapt-improve what I see but I would never, EVER stoop to a level where I proclaimed to be the originator of a move.Whomever is scamming you will get their "come-up-ance" soon enough ...I think it's wrong to "lord" your skill over others ... question your motives ... why do you do this ? What possible reason could you have for excluding people from what YOU know ?If I *take* a move from someone, I honour them, I remember where and when, and HOW I learned that move. I have no qualms saying "here's one I learned from a skinny motherf/cker on mushrooms", that how it goes ...Unless this geezer who stole from you is a total write-off, you will ALWAYS have the satisfaction of KNOWING that *you* taught him everything he knows. No matter how good he gets, *you* started him on that road. YOU are the one ...The rest is just details ...

Hasst du etwas zeit fuer mich?... Dan singe ich ein lied fuer dich ... -Bjork/Nena

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o-o


member
Location: london, england

Total posts: 78
Posted:dear upset,i recommend you take up another implement as well - take a staff or two and practice with them, while smoothing out your routine on the poi. build the confidence. there's a thing we read on minibus taxis here all the time:"may my enemies live long so that they can see my progress"which sums it up. branch out, style, stick to it (the word is persistence i think), and sooner or later any serious poi/fire people in the group you generated will see who to play with and you will share their respect.g'lucko-o

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s-p-l-a-t


member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

Total posts: 383
Posted:that could feel a bit suckful - but all experience I suppose. I mean who cares if he says he's the one who taught you etc... if you're really serious about poi then I'm sure you'll be the one that looks more like a pro ... i.e. enjoying yourself to the utmost always looks fantastic.. and comes through. so if you're feeling down - just go out there and practice somemore ..screw him and show yourself that dedication and love of what you do pays off in the end =)as for 'owning' moves - and only teaching poi to ppl that are 'your friends' i think this is wrong. sure a judge of character may be useful (who wants to play with an ignorant dickhead) but i reckon the more people that do it ..the cooler the variety of moves will be and therefore better for everyone in the end. (unless of course you are a total @$#%@%/bitch who is only in it to show yourself off and like to get some kind of a i'm-better-than-you-are-as-a-person sort of trip off it. and then spread that particular evil vibe off to everyone around you while patting yourself on the back for having done it longer than other people. you know who you are, i say get a life.oh yeah - and there'll always be 192378419274s of other ppl who do it ! =) yay..

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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master ping


member
Location: derby

Total posts: 1
Posted:Bish, thanks for the tip. I guess I just get carried away sometimes and just start typing what ever comes to mind, exlcluding my return key
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I think I know what upset means, but correct if I'm wrong ok.Its not that he or she doesn't mind sharing moves, I mean thats one the points of this website right, but this person was not in it for the purpose they might be into poi for.I hope that makes sense. I think Upset just feels betrayed for putting time and effort into a person whom she felt was really into poi, not just for the show. Then Upset shows this person shortcuts and what not to save them time and many hits to the head that Upset has been through. Then this guy just totally takes everything for their own, disrespecting Upset in the process and making Upset feel totally like crap. I agree with upset on this. I feel that its great to share moves and get others involved. Each persons' style is going to make it unique anyway. I think its just right to at acknowledge those who took the time and effort save us time in learning some moves. Its just the right thing. If I'm getting the wrong picture on this someone please correct me Thanks.


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Skye


member
Location: Boise, ID, USA

Total posts: 33
Posted:Next time somebody wants to learn from you, maybe you should make them paint fences and wax cars for awhile first to test their character.Just kidding. But don't worry. Just keep doing your thing. Play with sticks and as many other spinny things you can find. Poi ultimately way beyond just a ball attached to a wire. All the tricks are just tools to help you build something greater if you want o.Anyone can learn guitar chords and cover songs. Not many people can write something themselves. Write your own poi song and fuck these bastards.Skye ------------------

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Posted:Thanks For all your support guys, It Does mean alot. I will be learning a few more toys eventually I know I'll feel like I showed them up.It seems thoose guys have runaway to join a circus now, Thier being paid. -At first I didn't think that was cool It made everything worse.They are being paid for somthing they took from me. But they both left thier day jobs to do this, and they just found out this is a very temporary job. I think they just screwed themselves over. I guess I don't have to do anything at all, Fate has a way to pay even.Thanx GuysBTW I'm learning staff Its Fun!-NOT SO uPSET ANYMORE
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