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Looper
GOLD Member since Feb 2004

Looper

grasshopper in training


Total posts: 124
Posted:Still reeling from this so i will put it as simply as possible
I had a beautiful flatemate for two years who opened up my eyes when i thought everyone was assholes. We both moved out when the house was no longer availiable and he is still one of my best friends.
A year ago he told me he had cancer of the throat and since then he turns up periodicaly and offloads the latest truma (operation, kemmo(sp?), etc). The last time he showed up on my doorstep it was to say that he had told the doctors he didn't want to take drugs anymore... he hadn't felt emotions for the last 2 years and it had to end one way or another. He pushed me and all his friends away and would just show up occassionly... he got a job in a backpackers and built three day long supperficial relationships. I assumed it was so he didn't have to deal with his sickness.
I am close with his ex girlfriend and the other day she grabbed me and started asking me weird questions - have you ever seen Dam throw up, ever seen blood, ever seen him in hospital?
She had contacted his parents about his denial behaviour and they had said he has never had cancer. They had never sold his bike to pay for his operations, didn't know about any of his friends that had died. They said they would come down in a couple of weeks to try and get to the bottom of it. (A couple of weeKs?!)
At first we didn't know whether Dam was lying or his parents were in denial. Researched ourselves. The cancer he has is an old persons cancer... doesn't spread... the kemo was way beyond budget... we would have seen him be sick.
Possibly immorally contacted a friend who worked at the hospital he was supposed to be treated in... no record of him.
He has never lost hair, dispite two bouts of kemo. Never had scars, dispite numerous operations (apparently throught the roof of his mouth)
He told his ex two years ago. He goes away regularley for 'treatment'. his lies are elaborate and, untill recently, totally belivable.
His ex asked him recently if he had cancer. He mantains he did but was cleared two months ago... he feels 'really bad that he never told us that he wasn't dying anymore... he doesn't know why'.
I don't know whether we should confront him. Don't know how he would react. I still love him and dispite all of the lies and not knowing what i should believe and what were lies in the past, i still want to help him. It is strange that i am not mad or even really care... i just want him to not feel like he has to mantain it anymore... his whole life has been based on a lie for the last year. It is all so wierd and i don't know what our next step should be.
Any suggestions? frown
hug Looper


There is a world made of air, one of earth and one of water.
And there is one made of fire, and all of them fight for supremacy. They are fighting now, in my head.

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gita
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

gita

.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
Location: brizvegas

Total posts: 3776
Posted:wow... big hug to you looper!

it sounds like your friend really needs help...professional help. it's incredible that he could keep up such a big complicated mess of lies for so long! i think you do need to talk to him...maybe confront is the wrong word, but at least sit down and try to figure out what the heck happened! it fascinates me why someone would do that...

i don't know what else to say! more hug hug2 hug to you. i hope it all works out okay...


do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!

if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!

smile! grin it confuses people!

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:it sounds like your friend has a serious physcological disorder and he needs to look at himself in depth in a place where it is safe for him to do so, with approiate support and guidance. You must tell his folks what he has been saying and see as to why he may have started this behaviour

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Your very valid to feel the way you do, it sounds like he has put you through a lot. But you shouldn't have pryed. The information you have may not even be correct. Or it may be distorted like things do when told from person to person.

The truth isn't particulary important I don't think. You already know something is up, you know their is something more to this person then their lies. He probably was pretty sick, and I think he still is although the cancer isn't the cause.

Ive sort of been in his position before. Although I never really made up a great web of deceit, I did put an awful lot of stress on people close to me because it was the only way I knew how to cope. I did and still do try to push people away. Much like he does. He suffered something traumatic. His mind isn't working so great as a result.

You probably can't do a whole lot to help him, you can't reach into his soul and fix what's wrong. When you talk to him try not to invalidate him. and try to not invalidate your own emotions and worries. Let him know that to you he is still the wonderful person you knew when he was his flatmate, and what has happened since then won't change it. You can gently suggest he seeks profesional councilling and therapy. The rest is up to him. I think he's probably done what he thought he had to. He will probably continue to do so and if he knows that your image of him hasn't changed and he knows that people care about him. he will feel more secure about himself and about other people. From that point it's up to him to seek the proper help and work things out for himself.


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Written by: Valura

it sounds like your friend has a serious physcological disorder and he needs to look at himself in depth in a place where it is safe for him to do so, with approiate support and guidance. You must tell his folks what he has been saying and see as to why he may have started this behaviour



I think that's a bad idea. She need's to tell him. he need's to tell his folks.

you can't superceed someone like that. It's insulting, invalidating and generally may result in unpredictable behaviour. He's still a person, seemingly an adult from what I read in this thread. She's already betrayed his trust. she shouldn't go any further.


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arsn


arsn

How do you change this thing???
Location: Behind the couch...

Total posts: 1903
Posted:Aster, sometimes you need to go over somebodies trust for you to help them... and lets face it... This person has lied and has been living the lie ever since, so tell me how trust worthy he is himself?

I agree with Valura, on the reasons that (in most cases) one of the only people that can get thru to somebody is their family. Looper you've done the right thing up to this point, don't feel that you haven't.

If he does go into unpredictable behaviour , remember that he isn't mad at you (although he may seem to take this out on you), he'll be upset with himself for letting this get to this point.

But Looper, I think you already know that what your doing is right for all concerned. hug


I can't hear you... I have a banana in my ear.

"You mean I'll have to use my brain?... but I use staff!!!" ~ ben-ja-men

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:arsn I have seen very bad results of bypassing a person and going to their parents. On a support forum I frequent for self injury people behave like this person has a great deal. Many people of used techno-wizardy to track them down and call cops or the persons parents or contact their friends and family.

the place has existed for a pretty long time, and it's policy is it is agaisnt the rules to bypass a person. I cannot possibly lend support for such action, or let it be encouraged without giving my dissenting opinion.

I generally think the way to deal with this sort of stuff is A)protect yourself B)equip the other person with knowledge they need C)Only bypass them if it's readily apparent they are an immediate threat to their own safety or the safety of others.


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:I may take a diffrent position on a situation if I thought the parents of an individual were involved in his behaviour. But he seems to have isolated them (or his parents are feigning ignorance)

He doesn't want his parents to know. If his parents call him up and are like "so we heard thus and thus you need to come home and see a therapist" or worse are a part of his problem and either treat him as a child and or are abusive and unsupportive. It could verywell pop the persons bubble a little to quickly. It seems to me he is in denial, hasn't accepted the truth etc etc..

given the information I have read, it seems like a bad idea.

Looper obviously has more information then me though. She may know the parents, or be able to guess how he will react predictabbly. Ultimatly looper nor his parents aren't responsible for him. This situation is his creation, it's his responsibility. Any action should be between the people he are effecting and him


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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Astar, I think that many people need to be bypassed....

Remember that kid that killed himself a couple of years ago by overdosing and was in a chat room at the time? You think people sat there and thought "o - self destructive behaviour with potentially fatal consequences. I'd better not call the cops or an ambulance, cos that is taboo."

What a Load of Rubbish.

I think that, although you have personal experience with the subject matter, we don't know nearly enough about Looper's situation to be suggesting that bypassing the individual is a bad idea.

Every mental illness is unique and you can't simply create blanket rules based on your own personal experience.

Looper - trust your instinct.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:I think it's a load of rubbish that you bring up the most unrelated, extreme situation you can think of.

What does that kid that killed himself a couple of years ago by overdoseing and was in a chatroom at the time have to do with this?

What kid was that? their was plenty before and their was plenty after, none of them are similar to this situation.

She didn't say anything about the guy threatening to overdose, or do anything else of the nature. I suspect he most likely is passively suicidal. But who isn't?

I agree with "looper - trust your instinct"

Do you know enough to know that bypassing the individual is a good idea? flash fire?


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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:settle guys, we're supposed to be helping, not arguing with each other.

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:I agree, I was merely offering my opinion. Untill someone said it was a load of rubbish.



just to restate my opinion im not saying "under no circumstances bypass him"



im saying "use discretion"




EDITED_BY: Astar (1100493775)


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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:*groan* Astar - I have neither the time nor inclination to address your debate. Read into it what you will - you choose how to react.

Sorry Looper.

I stand by my point though - trust your instinct. And if your instinct is to go to the parents, then so be it.

Not sure what resources you have available in your country, but here we have http://www.sane.org/
and other helplines where you can call. Maybe call the professionals and ask their advice as well.


HoP Posting Guidelines
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Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Looper
GOLD Member since Feb 2004

Looper

grasshopper in training


Total posts: 124
Posted:Thanks guys.
Astar, I appriciate your point, and half of my head is saying you are right... we can chose to support him, to be his friend or not to as the person he presents himself to be... but i don't know that we can chose to go behind his back and delve into the life he hides.
However, have you ever known anyone with cancer? For more then a year our relationship has been about his cancer. It is all we ever talk about... he turns up in tears and goes away and i am left with the impression that the next time i see this amazing person it will be in intensive care, if at all. It leaves me exhausted and unable to face the world for days after a visit. I generally spend a few hours curled up in a ball in bed.
My point is, it is not just his life that is effected. It effects mine every day. If i choose to except the life he presents to me then i choose to except he is dying of cancer. I don't want to do that and if it is not true and he has been lying to me and effecting my life in this way, then do i have a right to find out?
Also, and it is a tiny point, i didn't pry. I have only been listening to his ex's point of view and trying to get my head around it. His ex-girlfriend did. But i probably would have done the same thing.
I believe that this is a psychological problem, and as such we are going to talk to a psychologist tommorrow to get their advise. ie how best to go about helping him... how people who act like this deal when they find out that we know he is fabricating, if it will continue to spiral if we don't confront him.
The point about his parents is an interesting one. I presumed that they were beautiful people, because Dam always seemed so well adjusted and amazing. However they didn't react at all the way my parents would have if they were given this information. They didn't really act suprised or upset... more overly apoligetic... almost guilty. Like mabye he had done this sort of thing before? I don't know that his parents are the only ones that can help him, however they were the only ones that could verify some facts... and originally were not contacted about whether he was lying or not, just because we were worried about how he was reacting to having cancer.
Confront is the wrong word. I just want to let him know that i know and i don't care, that i love him regardless and i will do whatever he wants to help him, or atleast keep him company in the next chapter.
arsn, Valura, flash fire, gita, Astar, thanks. Hearing others points of view really help when you are unsure of what you are doing or what to do next.
hug


There is a world made of air, one of earth and one of water.
And there is one made of fire, and all of them fight for supremacy. They are fighting now, in my head.

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arsn


arsn

How do you change this thing???
Location: Behind the couch...

Total posts: 1903
Posted:Written by:
Originally posted by Aster
I was merely offering my opinion. Untill someone said it was a load of rubbish.



Show me where "anyone" said your opinion was rubbish?

Written by:
Originally posted by Aster
I think it's a load of rubbish that you bring up the most unrelated, extreme situation you can think of.



I see that you say that Flash Fire's post is rubbish... but, no... I can't seem to see where somebody has done the same back to you???? Funny that...


I can't hear you... I have a banana in my ear.

"You mean I'll have to use my brain?... but I use staff!!!" ~ ben-ja-men

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:It's okay arsn - thanks anyway.



Astar decided to abuse me via PM instead. So, we'll take it from there.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Posted by Astar Written by:
I think that's a bad idea. She need's to tell him. he need's to tell his folks.



he isnt going to tell his folks now, if he hasnt told them earlier.

Astar I can see that you are offering your opinion and that is fantastic, but your communication style is saying to me that you are belitting other peoples opinions.

What Flash fire said is not rubbish. Its is a valid point to your post in regards to bypassing people.

I acknowledge your past, I have an idea of what you have pulled yourself through, in saying this please also respect the opinions of others, they have valuable information to offer as well.

Even if someone has experinced behavioural difficultys, it doesnt make them an expert on the subject of the human mind. The mind is too complex.

I stand by what I said. Tell his parents exactly what has happened so that they may offer help to him.
I honestly dont see this person telling his parents what has happened, and prehaps his parents need to approach him so that he can get help.
He then has the choice about what he can do from there, but at least his family knows whats going on.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:I made the mistake of thinking she was still addressing me when she addressed me, used an example and said "what a load of rubbish"



I don't think her post is rubbish. I didn't mean to imply that. Im wrong. It's plainly obvious I over reacted, got defensive, and from the very start of this thread used to strong of language to express myself.



Edit:I meant to imply it was rubish that she called my post rubbish.



im sorry.



Yes, I was abusive to flashfire in PM only because I didn't want this thread to be anymore unhelpful...



Im sorry im so upset over this ive been in loopers situation to many times, and ive been in the situation of her ex-flatmate aswell (not exactly the same or even very close.. but somewheres around the same area)

EDITED_BY: Astar (1100498445)


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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:*scrunches all the rubbish up, throws it in the bin*

Right, now we have that sorted, lets be friendly again, yeah?


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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gita
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

gita

.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
Location: brizvegas

Total posts: 3776
Posted:i agree with mig - this thread seemed to get a bit off topic & nasty like!!! eek

*waves at a friendly looking waiter type person*

hi! can we have a round of hugs please?? and hurry if you could!!

hug hug hug grouphug hug hug hug

better??

smile


do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!

if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!

smile! grin it confuses people!

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teejay_blue


teejay_blue

mikes bitch
Location: manchester/northampton/where t...

Total posts: 387
Posted:*hands out hugs around the table, on the house*

grouphug

ok lil bit off topic, bless ur cotton feet.


Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music - angela monet.

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Mistress_Maledicti


Heaven doesn't want me, and Hell is afraid I'll take over
Location: Wolverhampton

Total posts: 192
Posted:Surely the guy's parents already know now that he's been telling lies to a lot of people, so there's no issue about bypassing people and going straight to them.

I don't know much about mental problems (despite having some of my own!) but it sounds like this guy needs attention quite desperately and thinks this is a good way to get everyone on his side. By pleading cancer, all his friends are going to be massively sympathetic and he can keep that going for an awful long time.

But the point is that he's been lying to you, whatever his reasons and whatever explanations he comes up with, you have to face the fact that he's abused your trust. That's something he can identify as a problem and that's what he needs to be looking at. Urge him to get help, because he sounds very much like he needs it, and he needs more than just the love and support of his friends and family.

sin


"Abashed, the Devil stood and saw how awful Goodness is"

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Lillie Frog


Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales

Total posts: 558
Posted:I've been reading this thread with interest and curiosity. It seems like a very sad and strange situation. i have known people who told outrageous lies, but nothing as dark as this.

One thing I thought on reading the first post was that he seems to be trying to get himself out of the hole he has dug for himself by saying that he is better.
As though he knew he had to stop but didn't know how to.

If you like him, and can eventually forgive him for what he has put you through, you could allow him to use this 'get out' that he is trying.
You could just say that you are so glad he is better now because you have been really worried about him.
It sort of allows him to stop lying without loosing face.
Of course you might not be able to do that, and if this is the case it is totally understandable.
However, even though he hasn't had cancer he has been very ill, mentally, and probably still is. And it is always possible that he told you he had cancer because he needed your sympathy and care for something that he could not bear to talk about.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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stickman


World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||

Total posts: 580
Posted:hi looper.

i have also been reading this thread with great interest and i feel very bad for your friend and all the people he has hurt by living this lie..
however i do believe that what you said in your last post is a good idea, to go to a psychiatrist to ask for his opinion on how to handle this delicate yet dangerous situation.. obviously its been more than a week since then and i was just wondering (and ill understand if you dont want to share cuz after all most of us dont know you personally) if you went through with your plan.. and if so, what was the outcome? as in what did the psychiatrist say/suggest?
GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE INVOLVED!! hug hug hug hug hug


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