Forums > Social Discussion > Your Opinions on the Paranormal?

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted: I don't want stories actually.

What I am looking for is do you believe?

If so, what do you believe in?

Do your beliefs stop at ghosts or do you think demons, werewolves, vampires are real?

What about possession?

UFO's and alien abductions?

What about those things that people can supposedly do? Magic (real, not David Copperfield)? Telepathy? Clair/Audiovoyance?
etc..etc...etc...


I ask because I recently resumed my role as a paranormal investigator. I did it years ago, and recently resumed it because it is something I really loved doing. I work with a group of people who seem to be more embracing and *want* to believe in it so much that I do not think they apply as much logic and science. Me, I apply logic and science until I run out of ideas and then still won't definitively say yes, just that it *could* be.

What I have noticed is that those who want to believe, find explainations for their exsistence where they don't really exsist. On the other hand those who choose not to believe will make up stupid explainations that make no sense to debunk something.
It can be quite hard to deal with.

So...where do you fit into all of htis and what do you think?

Thanks!
P~


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Prometheus


Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Total posts: 459
  Posted:When people talk about the paranormal, they're talking about things that science has not yet explained. 500 years ago, things like St. Elmo's Fire and eclipses were paranormal. Now we understand these things. But perhaps, someday science will reach a point where it can explain no more, and we will have to accept the existence of UFO's and pyrokinesis.



I would really love to believe in life after death, so I've always walked a fine line bewteen skepticism and hope. It is my belief that I've seen 2 ghosts in my lifetime. I'm fairly certain my last apartment was haunted, though I never saw who or what it was.



UFO's have been described since ancient times, and I certainly believe that intelligent life must have evolved elsewhere. I imagine if they are visiting us, the must be studying us as well, perhaps even abducting us, otherwise, why make the trip?



Things like demonic possession or magic I would be more skeptical about, since they are more easily explainable as psi-talents. I have friends who read tarot cards, some with amazing accuracy. I realize that cards, palms or whatever you use are merely tools, through which other abilities are channelled.



Hollywood monsters are just that, things pulled out of hundred-year-old books. Vampires & werewolves are imaginary, except in politics.



I would like to be on such an investigative team, I think it would be a fascinating experience. Unfortunately I have no degrees or certification. Perhaps the only thing that might qualify me to be on a paranormal research team is to be the necessary voice of skepticism, the one who says, "that orb is just a bug," or that cold chill came from the crack in the foundation." I've also experimented with spirit photography, read a lot on techniques, and how to spot fakes. I've seen enough online fakes to fill an internet. Maybe when I finally catch a ghost on film, I'll turn in my application.

EDITED_BY: Prometheus (1100322840)


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Y.T.
SILVER Member since Apr 2003

hopeless addict
Location: nodnoL, United Kingdom

Total posts: 121
  Posted:My verdict is still out on a lot of paranormal subjects because i used to be a hardline skeptic. But that changed somewhat when i started to learn Reiki, a form of energy healing from Japan.

I went on a couple of courses and was surprised to find that it actually works. I've tried in on my friends (many who have seen the benefits), my plants and myself. And as far as proof goes, on 157 research studies on Reiki worldwide, 67 got results that were of significant or highly significant values. This is a high amount and twice as much as would be needed for a drug to be sold in the UK.

So energy does exist and we can use it for ourselves and others, and all that otehr crazy stuff, i still think i'll have to see/feel it untill i fully believe.

ps: anyone with any severe burns or problems and i'll send you some healing, just PM me and we'll sort it out smile


Ninjas NEVER give up!

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted:Hey Prometheus...

Actually, there are a few people on the team who have no sensativity but who are really great with tech stuff. And everyone checks for reasons for things while we are in them. That is part of being an investigator and not just a ghost chaser.
To first rule out logic and science.

If you are interested, I think the founders are still hiring, and I know of two groups in your area (not CSICOP though...long story) but can not vouche for either of them as to their methods.
Well...it is one of those news things I said I wanted to talk with you last night about so I will wait till I call you later.

I definately think your last apartment was occupied by more than you, but we've talked about that before.

That's an interesting perspective Y.T. I'll have to give more thought to that train.


As for something which is "paranormal" being not proven yet...that is the point of the word. Pull it apart .. Para is a loanword from Greek as a prefix meaning beyond or past. So all it means is that something is beyond normal, which means it does not have to be fantastical to be paranormal at all. That description fits half of those things that science is attempting to prove but at this moment can not.

Thanks all! smile


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
  Posted:Written by: SpitFire
I believe in souls, and perhaps that is the energy, but what happens to it when you die?


But if you believe in a soul then seeing as how we can't measure the energy it has when you're alive, how can you say there is any energy that goes missing when you die? We can't detect a soul, so if it exists we know nothing about what happens to it...


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
  Posted:I am pretty agnostic when it comes to the paranormal. There are many things I have experienced that could not be fully explained, but that doesn't mean that I am willing to put everything into the generous lap of psychic phenomena or magic.
Many things of this nature can be explained away in a rational, scientific manner, which makes more sense to me. The mind has such control over the human body that at times it is easy to confuse elements of psychology with what could be considered paranormal. Thats how voodoo, faith healing and the fakirs all work.

However, I am also open-minded enough that if it can be proven to me that something exists then I will believe it. That proof will take a bit of work, though. smile

Raph


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
  Posted:Written by: oli
science is just another ghost. (geuss what book im reading?) and its all in our minds to


Nonsense. Science isn't just another belief system - would you trust yourself to a prayer-powered aeroplane?

Science is two things - a body of knowledge about what we know of the Universe, which is what most people think of it as. But more importantly it's a method for modelling the Universe, for coming up with ways to explain what we see out there in a rational way, and most importantly, that is consistant with what we perceive.

As soon as we can see something we can start to apply scientific reasoning about it - coming up with ideas and then seeing if those ideas match what we see in reality. As such, there isn't anything out there that is outside of science - just stuff we don't have enough information about to presently understand.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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stickman


World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||

Total posts: 580
  Posted:hey spitfire.. i know im behind on this thread but id like to try and answer your question about what happens to energy when we die..
well, studying biology i sort of learned about this..
when one animal eats another, only about 10% of the energy is passed on to the predator (thats also why there are so many more insects that lions for example.. not that lions eat insects, but indirectly they do get their energy.. or part of it anyways)
anywho, the rest of the 90% is either taken up through decomposition or lost through excretion of feces and whatnot.. so, when an animal dies naturally from old age or leukemia or something all that energy is then absorbed by nature around it.. either ants eating it, or fungus growing on it, or plants taking up its minerals..
the point is.. due to my scientific view on that, i dont think that the energy from a dead animal is in anyway carried on paranormally.. and that a spirit goes on living.. .uh uh. for me thats impossible.. again cuz of my scientific view..
incidentally, does anyone here believe in reincarnation? in the literal sense.. not absorption of energy.


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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia

Total posts: 3415
  Posted:aliens and/or ufos have to be out there. there cannot possibly be that many stars, with that much potential for life, and us be the only ones capable of doing more than counting. its infeasable. unless, of course, we are a god created once off, which makes my head hurt.

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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stickman


World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||

Total posts: 580
  Posted:oh, just to be clear, i just re read my post and realized that i didnt answer the original question posted by pele

do i believe in the paranormal.. yes, i do believe in ghosts, but i havent given it that much thought yet.. not the typical kind seen in films with the white robe, but just certain spirits that are out on some kind of mission.. perhaps to give a warning, or maybe even as some form of guardian angel.. but i dont think that every person let alone every animal or plant that dies continues to live on in spirit to roam the earth and terrorize the living..

werewolves and vampires? probly not, unless they escaped from a dr. jeckyll like chemical experiment that went horribly wrong..

to answer my own question about reincarnation, thats a strange topic.. there are several possibilities of reincarnation.. one, that every living creature when it dies comes back and continues on living as some other species. two, that only humans reincarnate as other humans..
the latter i rule out.. think about this around 1900 there were a fraction of the amount of ppl on this planet as there are now, so if everyone is reincarnated when they die, where did the others billions come from? plus, why should we be any different than any other living creature on this planet? just because we have the mental capacity to think and discuss topics like this doesnt mean its exclusive to us (same goes for religion with me, but thats a diff topic altogether)
the former is more likely, but again i stick to my scientific view.. every living creature, whether its a sea urchin or a cactus, is reincarnated in the sense that its life energy is absorbed to feed other living creatures..


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Prometheus


Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Total posts: 459
  Posted:Scientifically speaking, energy cannot be destroyed, rather it is dispersed. It simply returns to the system as errant energy.

You also have to be specific as to what kind of energy you're talking about. All we can really claim to produce is bio-electrical and heat energy. If you're talking about a 'lifeforce' or a 'soul,' you've searching for something that science has not yet established as an existing force. Likewise, because science cannot explain something, doesn't mean it isn't real.

Remember, in the words of Lt. Cmdr. Data, "The most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is 'I do not know.'" wink


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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stickman


World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||

Total posts: 580
  Posted:i agree with that prometheus, but energy can be created however.. like you said through heat energy, not only from us but also from the sun.. plants use that energy and convert it into their own form of energy through photosynthesis..
but does this mean that there is constantly new energy being created and none being destroyed?


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
  Posted:But that energy isn't being created, as it comes from the Sun, which loses energy every second it shines.

The total energy of the Universe has been constant since the Big Bang... in fact you can consider it to be zero, because all of the positive energy of matter and radiation is balanced by negative gravitational potential energy.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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stickman


World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||

Total posts: 580
  Posted:has anyone ever (to the best of their knowledge) come in contact with extreterrestrial beings.. this might include seeing them or have lunch with them.. and no, watching futurama doesnt count biggrin

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Prometheus


Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Total posts: 459
  Posted:I always coulda swore that my third grade teacher Mrs. Finkle was from Venus...

Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Y.T.
SILVER Member since Apr 2003

hopeless addict
Location: nodnoL, United Kingdom

Total posts: 121
  Posted:I know a lot of people that have said they have seen UFO's but they were all smoking at the time, and major conspiracy theorists. One was a major fan of David Icke so u can make ur own judgements...

Ninjas NEVER give up!

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted:Written by: Raphael96

The mind has such control over the human body that at times it is easy to confuse elements of psychology with what could be considered paranormal. Thats how voodoo, faith healing and the fakirs all work.





Actually, this is not entirely true, but it is not paranormal either. Fakirs do two things...they use physics, anatomy and endurance/stamina for their feats. I know...I do many of them as sideshow presentations, or variations of them. There is faaaar more science than mind-over-matter involved. It is also partially how I got into paranormal investigation/debunking things.

Much in Voodoo is also accomplished through the use of psychotropic herbs/drugs. Self hypnosis/suggestion is a part of it, but not nearly so much as you would think.

Don't ask how I know that. wink


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Austral...

Total posts: 1107
  Posted:I kind of wish I could believe in the paranormal, I want that Damascene sense of revealation, but I've never met anything that could give me that.

I'm very much with the other guys with the "what we don't understand now, someday we will" attitude.

Even my father's poltergeist encounter with an electric stove being hurled around a room won't convert me.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
  Posted:Yes, it's true... I posted an old post of Peles on this exact subject. Mostly cuz I thought if I said "Do a search" she'd bite my head off. wink

But I've been distracted by my cutie too much and didn't have time to jump on and say "Ha"!

So...

Ha!

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
  Posted:Post deleted by Valura

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Phellan


member
Location: Kamloops, BC

Total posts: 74
  Posted:I'll fill in my bit on this. . . while I'm an Agnostic, I'm quite open minded.

I'm a scientist at heart, and originally I pursued it at a career. I am quite skeptical of things labeled "mystical" or "magical", including anything under the realm of paranormal. Yet even I who will always search for a rational answer first and look to science and it's methods to explain things am not able to explain all that's around.

A psychic vampire is someone who is more or less an extreme empath--they are highly attuned to others emotional states and draw their own emotional strength from them. Whether they "feed" off a persons psyche or energy may be something of debate to those who believe in them--but science would be hard pressed at all to prove such an existence as one could not rule out the simple fact that perhaps such people are highly-stimulated by crowd settings.

However I'm off topic--while being of an extremely scientific orientation, I've partaken by myself or with a few others things that I could not rationalize, and I realize are well beyond our current scientific methods to study, because of our limited ability to accurately measure the mind in non-lab settings.

It's honestly a toss up--I'm extremely empathic, to the point of it being a 6th sense, yet an intuitive understanding of body kinesetics could explain it, but explaining that intuitive understanding would be a task.

So while I base my view of the world on the scientific and the "real" I am quite willing to accept the possibility of the unknown and paranormal---when all else but that is left as the possiblity. And while our science is not the best or most accurate, many things can be explained by it. But somethings--many things like what Valura describe can be found and rarely can they be proved--but I've never seen them disproved either, for they don't happen on command from my understanding, and that is something that science requires--a constant, and when that is not present, we have a most dastardly time figuring it out. :P


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
  Posted:Written by: Valura
no. I know things I cannot explain. It has been prooven to me too many times to doubt it. I also know where it comes from and I am not going to justify it to you.

You are way off topic Astar.

Pele asked for people opinion on the paranormal. Not for you to pick their opinions to pieces.
I offered my opinion on the paranormal. In doing so I did not give you permission to pick my deeply personal spiritual life to bits. Its not something I talk about often on the forum, what I do in my spare time is very important to me and I hold it dear, I was merely trying to help Pele.


How is expressing an opinion a personal attack on your beliefs? Did he mock you, tell you you were stupid, even attack your abilities? Saying you hold a different belief isn't an automatic attack, that's a Christian claiming I was "attacking their beliefs" just by my telling them I don't believe in god. And if you are so sure of your beliefs then why bother getting upset by some random on the net making an offhand comment?

Back on topic, I very much recommend everyone should read "This Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. It's a fascinating read about pseudo-science, fakery and things like how people are fooled by probability into thinking that things that are almost certain to happen are instead rare and wonderous. Very very much applicable to this topic smile


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted:Spiralx, that is a good read if you are into the topic.

So...here is a question...

What does the term Paranormal mean to you? How do you define it?


As I said before, I take it literally. "Para" meaning beyond "Normal" meaning (from Webster's Dict.) Conforming to the standard of the accepted type, regular.

Simply, to me, the term means Beyond Regular. Under that definition anything science has *yet* to explain and is still testing in theory as it is not yet proven can be paranormal. Hell, most of the way I live my life falls into this category! wink
I investigate things people fear because they are out of the realm of day to day possibility and thought process.

And Phellan, your definition was completely on topic wink


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
  Posted:Written by: Pele
What does the term Paranormal mean to you? How do you define it?


As I said before, I take it literally. "Para" meaning beyond "Normal" meaning (from Webster's Dict.) Conforming to the standard of the accepted type, regular.

Simply, to me, the term means Beyond Regular. Under that definition anything science has *yet* to explain and is still testing in theory as it is not yet proven can be paranormal. Hell, most of the way I live my life falls into this category! wink


Well by that definition things like black holes are paranormal wink But yeah I would generally agree with that definition in general.

Oh, and if you're interested in ghosts, this article is one scientific explaination for them smile

http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Ghost/ghosts_created_by_low_frequency.htm
br>
Certainly seems very plausible to me...


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted:Spiralx...

I love both the Tandy and the Persinger theories, and am well acquainted with them. And if you continue to research them you will find that they still only explain a fraction of the "ghost hunts" they go on with their science, which still leaves some things unexplained....and this is where the, I think, logical people investigators come in (not ghost hunters...I think they look to find them, not to investigate and explain a claim)...to seperate science from the not-yet-able to be explained.

However, both of these, while extremely plausible are also disputed by people in their own scientific fields. Nuerologists claim that Michael Persinger is full of crap (and in fact our own HoP nuerologist thinks the theory is crap, btw).
And people who study infrasounds and the effects on living creatures (mostly to determine what hears to what extreme) are claiming that Tandy's theory is too erratic.

In both cases, the theories, when tested effect different people in different ways, yet there is no physiological connection yet being made between those who seem suseptible and those that do not, so it is still up in the air...but a *damn* good start I think.

That is a great article on it too, btw.

Now, if only there was a really cheap way of testing for infrasounds that did not cost thousands...then Pele would be a very happy girl!
Electromagnetic, I have that covered...but the sound...nope.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
  Posted:In my opinion telling me that I have a cunning mind is implying that I am not using my abilities and *making stuff up*
I find that offensive.
Therefore I expressed my opinion.
Sorry if you didnt feel that was ok spiral.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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stickman


World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||

Total posts: 580
  Posted:woa there, i sense some tension building up...
CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?? hug kiss peace peace peace


offtopic sorry


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted:It's done...it's taken care of. Can we now return to the topic and stop this?

I was just looking up popular definitions of each of the terms associated with paranormal investigation, something I don't think I have done before and I found it very interesting that many of the social ideas do not fit with the actual definition.
Do you think this is because of media?
How do you think that masse media has effected your views of the paranormal?

Thanks!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Klowny
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

Klowny

Disco Inferno
Location: Remote Western Australia Karra...

Total posts: 160
  Posted:I dont know whether it is a fair thig to do to take a nuetral position on such a thing, because i wouldnt like to rule it out completely but knowing the world today makes it seem pretty far fetched. If you ask me there must be some sort of secondary world of unknown.

"Only fools are positive! are you sure? Im POSITIVE"

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
  Posted:Written by: Valura

In my opinion telling me that I have a cunning mind is implying that I am not using my abilities and *making stuff up*
I find that offensive.
Therefore I expressed my opinion.
Sorry if you didnt feel that was ok spiral.


You're free to express your opinion, I was merely stating mine that I don't think calling you intuitively gifted is a personal attack on you. But anyway, that's all I'm going to say on that.

Pele, after reading about Persinger I too am dubious about his claims. Certainly it seems unlikely that the effects of an electromagnetic field would be specific enough to affect behaviour in such a specific fashion... and also that if it was the case, it wouldn't be noted far more often given the huge amount of electrical devices around today.

Back to the infrasound theory, did you read about the research done into how church organs use infrasound? Again, very interesting smile

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3087674.stm


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
  Posted:Yes Spiralx! And sooo interestingly, in one of the places we are researching now, one of the "most haunted" rooms has..you guessed it..and organ in it! I think I squealed in my seat when I read that. It is why I want to find a cheap way to test for infrasound!

However, things such as this still do not explain everything that occurs, but it is head start in some places to be certain!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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