whitehawk
newbie

Member Since: 12th Oct 2004
Total posts: 23
Posted:I've read alot about planes...and dont worrd Durbs i HAVE searched :P

anyways my question is this...

I know about horizontal and vertical planes etc...but how do they apply if I am spinning in a figure 8 style so the staff is on the angles shown below (I am the O, the staff is the diagonal line)

o\ then /o

when i change sides...

and also, is there really any rule that planes MUST be followed, or is it more a choice kindof thing.

Please excuse my noobiness.

(sorry for all the topic posts -- soooooo many questions!)


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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Its a good question though



I've gone completley back to basics with my planes lately. A lot if this has to do with changing my staff. My new one is alot heavier. I'm finding it smoother harder to keep in plane then my old one. Which was bliss.



I also had one of the inner core staffs you were asking about but I broke it. I fully intend to get a new one for travelling when can afford it. Though I cant do contact with it at all. (I cant really do contact anyway smile )



I dont think there is a way to spin completley in one plane unless your passing the staff through your body (which would be a neat trick. I think about it as crossing between parralell planes. In a figure of eight your using two wall planes or two wheel planes. The staff has to cross at some point. I'm working on making these two planes closer together and further apart, That way I can see and feel the right time and place to cross the staff as seamlessley as possible



Your grip will change a lot here. I tend to spin open handed with the staff gripped between my thumb and index finger. When I pass the staff I roll it across my thumbs. In saying that I use a closed grip for some things two. After while I find my hands know what to do themselves. This helps with not bashing myself in the head. Play about with differnt grips you'll find alot can change even visually just by holding the staff differently



The flexibility of your wrists counts for a lot too. Keep working on them. Forward and Reverse Fig 8's in both hands and in opposite hands and oppsite sides of your body, swapping hands in the middle of the move and on and on. Try them over your head behind your back, everywhere smile



Remember, the stick builds up momentum and energy, it wants to spin it in a plane. Its the center point that your changing. Keep going for a while and your body will realise smoother ways of doing this.



My body is way more intelligent than I am.



Hope this helps



a


Love is the law.

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Whether or not you should stick to planes is an often debated topic; my take is that they're good, and it's worth being able to do them before you think about breaking them. Some people I know laugh at me for being anal about planes, and some people laugh at me for ignoring them. Planes help to differentiate moves, which stops spinning being so boring, and make things look clean. My advice would be to get them good and clean. There's no rulebook, noone is going to force you to do it, but it'll make life easier later.

As to angles, what he said ditto biggrin

Planes are a concept, and often can't be *perfect*.

If you're spinning figure8's in wheel plane like your picture (assuming that the o is facing up...), you can get pretty close depending on wrist flexibility. That is, you have two parallel planes, one on each side of your body:

|0 <-> 0|

Out to the side, there's two different approaches I can think of. You can use two parallel planes, one in front and one behind your body:

0=

Or you can have two non-parallel planes which cross over where your hand is, more like:

0x

With both of these, you can approach the ideal of a single plane, until you start smacking yourself in the face. Personally I tend towards the second version, as I like to be able to keep my hand as close to totally still as possible. But bear in mind this is an over-geeky way of looking at it. You're probably best off just trying to make it "fairly flat"...

Hope some of that helps!


monkeys ate my brain

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:It fun to keep clean planes in a figure of eight by moving your body through the plane of the staff, rather than moving your staff past the plane of your body.

I definateling think I have mumps or shingles. But as I don't know what mumps is, probably shingles. I definately have spots. Red ones.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:*quickly runs away from meg*

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:as you can see, in the UK we're well into our straight planes.

two advantages of them:
1. You end up hitting yourself far less often if your planes are straight.
2. If your planes are clean, you can turn round far more easily.

having said all that, before i did any spinning myself i liked to watch people spinning fast and crazy with really bad planes. It makes it look more chaotic and like you're exerting power over your stick (which you are, because the staff's momentum becomes much less helpful).

eek meg's got lurgy frown


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:UK!!!!!!



*blows rasberry*



*thinks about who he is learning from the most*



*sucks rasberry back in, makes weird noise*



all these boys and girls are so right.



i like your idea mcp, stepping through the plane. ]



I also find that spinning with the staff off centre and using snakes to isolate, while turning at the waist (thus your shoulders) makes for nice planes. too, in fact iso's in general are teaching me a whole different sense of planes. I find im making more use of the 3d space between the parralell planes, if you know what i mean. i might not be explaining that very well. Or maybe its moving dynamically through a wider plane than have two seperate ones.



I''ve only just started to think about things like this so forgive my complete inabilty to articulate.


Love is the law.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:thinking it overated - just spin! wink biggrin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:somebody help mcp, the mumpy bumps have made her looney

Love is the law.

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Written by: mcp

thinking it overated - just spin! wink biggrin



Whoever's stolen our mcp, can we have the real one back please? This one's broken. (And contagious) biggrin

I find the iso's you're talking about (ado-p) really nice for going from horizontal to vertical planes - you've got a lot more control over it.


monkeys ate my brain

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Dr_Molly
Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home
Member Since: 4th May 2004
Total posts: 2354
Posted:mcp isn't contagious
she's just a lurgy wannabe
and she's miffed cos she can't find a leper to rub up against

planes - mmmm smile
where would we be without them?


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Written by: Molly

where would we be without them?



In the shetlands?


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:apologies to whitehawk for the edinburgh staffposse of loons who appear to haveinhabited your thread...

to sum up; planes are great and a brilliant thing to have. all top spinners i know agree with this. then, with a glint in their eye, they will tell you about all the cool ways they have come up with for utterly ruining their planes.


for me, once you have decent planes with one stick, you have free rein to do what you will with them.
however, planes appear to be waaaaay more important for doubles. if a bit more info on that interests ya, don't hesitate to ask mr mospeph, josh, me, knoxious... or indeed many of the others who lurk this bit of the site...

smiles
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:All of the above.

And, Ill just add that perhaps when we say planes we are really talking about symmetry. Though we need to acknowledge good planes are the basis for symmetry

Symmetry definitions from dictionary dot com:

Exact correspondence of form and constituent configuration on opposite sides of a dividing line or plane or about a center or an axis.

Correspondence in size, shape, and relative position of parts on opposite sides of a dividing line or median plane or about a center or axis

For example with poi, it would be equality in the number of parts of the successive circles in a flower or a fountain.

Also, Concentrate inner core staffs rock.

Hope that helps

smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I find this concept of NOT spinning in planes quite humouress. smile

The only way (in my opinion) to NOT spin in a plane is to move the staff along it's length, with one end as the front and the other as the back, like a torpedo or javelin more than a spinning staff.

While I've played with this concept a bit, I find it much more satisfying to spin a staff around a cental point, hence creating planes.

Then again, so much of the staff posts are so utterly beyound me now, we might be talking about completely different things...


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Written by: Charles

I find this concept of NOT spinning in planes quite humouress. smile

The only way (in my opinion) to NOT spin in a plane is to move the staff along it's length, with one end as the front and the other as the back, like a torpedo or javelin more than a spinning staff.

While I've played with this concept a bit, I find it much more satisfying to spin a staff around a cental point, hence creating planes.

Then again, so much of the staff posts are so utterly beyound me now, we might be talking about completely different things...



I think the point is _keeping_ in the same plane. Ie the axis the staffs rotates about is always pointing in the same direction (forwards mostly :P), despited the centre of the staff being moved around.

keeping perfect planes is fun and sexy =)


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stickman
World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||
Member Since: 25th Jul 2004
Total posts: 580
Posted:Written by: Charles


While I've played with this concept a bit, I find it much more satisfying to spin a staff around a cental point,


this is interesting to think about.. you know those glass balls some ppl use and roll them on their palm so it looks like its staying in one place and your palm is just moving?
well you can incorporate that into staffing.. keep one end of it in one place and move the other around the central point or axis.. try to mess around with it a bit.. it has a cool effect if done well.


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stickman
World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||
Member Since: 25th Jul 2004
Total posts: 580
Posted:oops, only the first line is a quote ooooops

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:does anybody have any advice for improving/checking horizontal planes when spinning? a lot of the time they look ok to me from the inside but from the outside they're all over the place!

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:don't force it very much, keep a loose grip on it in the very center. If it's not wobbling and it feels smooth...

Palm spins are a good way to check, if you're hand is in the very centre and your hand is above your head, and it's not wobbling or falling off, it's probably horizontal.

Not forcing the staff and letting it go naturally where it wants to is a good way to get good planes on any plane, in my view... hug


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:The less force you use, the more chance you have to feel what the staff is telling you...

Whoa CHEESE alert!


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Puts bread ball on end of fork. biggrin mmmm.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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yoni
yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath
Member Since: 4th Jun 2005
Total posts: 3099
Posted:you may not need to use force but surely you kneed to use THE force

UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Written by: mcp

I definateling think I have mumps or shingles. But as I don't know what mumps is, probably shingles. I definately have spots. Red ones.



mumps


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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yoni
yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath
Member Since: 4th Jun 2005
Total posts: 3099
Posted:oooh if you have shingles i feel very sorry for you, i had them once (and when i was lke 12) and they f***in hurt like hell, they're probably one of the worst things for contact staff too

if it helps shingles go in rows because they go along the nerves


UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:Meg: actually that makes a lot of sense from what I've learnt with poi, and what I've been trying with the staff... have to go and practise palm spins a lot I reckon

Thanks for the smelly advice wink hug


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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