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Rovo
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

Rovo

(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 544
Posted:Has anyone been to the temple of poi website. Well it made me sick when I went there today. It is a site for a poi teaching place or whatever you want to call it. I don'tknow about everyone else but charging upwards of $900 for a week of poi training seems like an insult to the art to me. Online lessons are $90 for 6 begginner classes and $10 a move, one move, for advanced moves. I'm sorry but I find this wrong. On this site the workshops people can go to in England seem to be 3 pounds a head to cover rental fees of the space or else its free. Thats what this art is about, sharing, meeting others not making money. If other classes and stuff cost this much please correctme but i will still find them to be utterly ridiculus. It's giving poi to the masses making mass-produced spinners. I don't want to start any drama but I find this to be really F***ed up. Glittergirl who runs the site and academy is a wonderful spinner but i can't agree with having poi taught in tae bo/pilates style classes. It justgoes aginast all the reasons I like poi.

Peace, Love, Circles

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Poi spinning means different things to different people.

To some, it's a commodity to be sold.

If there was no demand, there'd be no supply.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Lillie Frog


Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales

Total posts: 558
Posted:People have a choice though, don't they?
All they have to do is look around the net and see free lessons on here and all sorts of things.

Yesterday there was something on the TV about rich people paying 500 to get their hair done. I think they are mad, but I suppose they think it's worth it.

Some people only value something if they pay a load for it.

Me, I love and treasure a bargain, but there you go,
The world's full of different people.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:paying 1000 dollars for a meal wont make it 100 times better than a ten dollar meal. probably wont make it ten times better.

i think ben elton said that.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Lillie Frog


Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales

Total posts: 558
Posted:But Ben Elton would know, wouldn't he?

I bet he's had a few 1000 dollar/pound meals in his life time.
Being as he's all ways been a public school toff who got a social concience cos he could afford it.

I wouldn't spend 10 quid on my dinner personally. And Icouldn't afford to.
What I would do if I had the money might be another story all together, but I'll probably never know.

Stuff is worth what people are willing to pay for it, which is sometimes quite alot.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:It does depend. I used to program for a living, and I always found people thought I charged too much (even though I was 20% cheeper than most people) because they didn't think computers was something that they should invest 'real' money in. Then '.Com' came and people were charging way over the top for rubish (sometimes). Now it's more or less ok, because people think about spending money on stuff like that.

ok, maybe not quite on topic, but you get the point!

I would ask how many people use the lessions...I would only want to learn from friends whilst having a good time with them. Maybe it's just me....


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:hmm

lessons quite rightly cost more than workshops.

if someone's investing in facilities and in their time to teach paying students, then it will cost more than informal workshops where people swap moves or teach voluntarily when they feel like it.

However, my opinion is she's taking the pi$$ with those prices.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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meghann


enthusiast
Location: good ol@ devon. cullompton to ...

Total posts: 302
Posted:i agree with rovo, its just rong,

ive learned
life is tough... but im tougher

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Lillie Frog


Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales

Total posts: 558
Posted:I don't disagee.
I'd rather stab myself in the head than pay prices like that (even if I could)

However, I was just pointing out that wether something is expensive or not is really just a matter of perspective. or, at least a changable idea relative to the ammount of disposable income that you have.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:perhaps this revolting article sheds new light on why this is hilariously ridiciolous.

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:ps-this is like when the catholic church decided to exchange forgiveness with specific amounts of money.

Only replace forgiveness with "knowledge" and instead of building really cool cathedrals, she will "create an international poi business" whatever that is. I reckon it is about as funny as the damn article.


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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:It sounds like she's trying to teach full time(possibly even make a living off of it), hard enough to do if you're only teaching one thing, doubly hard if it is such a niche market. Raises tons of questions, such as who her audience is with those prices(In most areas of hollywood or the bay area these prices are competitive with, say classes on yoga), and what her aims are(whether to make money off the art or simply survive so she can teach full time). As much as I personally disagree with the whole money exchange thing for lessons for poi, and my first twitch instinct would be to say what the holy hell, eh, it does depend.

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:I wish her luck in doing it. She probably has to charge heaps just to cover insurance costs let alone her time.
I think there is a huge untapped market for teaching poi in retirement homes and school, just needs to be well marketed. As an excercise it can be very gentle and relaxing as well as helping maintain mobility.

Circus skills people do regular workshops all the time and I cant really see the difference. Many people love the idea of poi but find unstructured meets very intimidating, whereas workshops offer more structure.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Rovo
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

Rovo

(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 544
Posted:This was in her article"
Written by:
But her aspirations don't stop there. She also wants to get ridiculously rich. And surreptitiously skinny. She wants to expand her teaching business from a niche market in San Francisco into a multimillion-dollar international enterprise, and she wants to build her own celebrity to help propel her business forward. And, as a sort of icing on the cake, she also wants to become something of a superhuman teen idol.



I'm sorry but that doesn't fit my idea of what poi's about.


Peace, Love, Circles

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Sakura_Moon


Sakura_Moon

Hop's Kitten Jester.
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Austral...

Total posts: 1803
Posted:I learnt my poi from some great guy here in melbourne. It cost me $10 an hour, which pretty much covers their transport and equipment repair and all that...
You can pay money for lessons, but c'mon $10 a move?! i payed $10 and learnt all i could in the space of an hour...


.:Pink Exocutioner:.

I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...

Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.


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BurningByron


member
Location: Australia

Total posts: 340
Posted:Whats the big deal???

Cigarette companies make an unimaginable amount of money selling a product which is highly addictive, highly toxic and provides nothing to the consumer.

Macdonalds sells extremely low grade food at extremely over inflated prices.

Banks no longer pay any real interest, they charge you for making money off your cash.

Insurance comanies rope in customers by promoting fear, sell them a product to appease the fears they have promoted and then screw you over anyway when you do need the payout.

Cosmetics companies, clothing brands, car companies, cosmetic surgeries all tell you that you are fat, ugly, uncool, not acceptable, unattractive etc so you will buy their product which doesnt really make you feel better anyway plus it was made through child slave labour, tested on animals and required the destruction of multiple ecosystems to create it.

Politicians get driven around in limosines and payed huge amounts of money to manipulate and lie to us.

Boxers, football players, tennis players, sumo wrestlers get paid huge amounts of money to beat other people.

Actors get paid a huge amount of money to pretend they are someone that they're not.

Models get paid because society thinks they are attractive and so they use them to make everyone else feel ugly.

Question 1.
Is it ok for a spiritual/religous leader to be financially rewarded for dedicating their time to bringing spiritual peace and happiness into lives of many people?

Question 2.
Is it ok for an artist to be financially rewarded for sharing and teaching his artform?

Question 3.
How do you put dollar amount on providing such services????

I recently charged a club $100 (australian) for 20 minutes of firedancing. I did one hell of a fire show and enjoyed every last moment. I also provided a service to an event which was the highlight of the night for many of the people there and made a large amount of money for the people who ran the event.

I started playing the cello when I was 9 and started teach when I was 14 (I was gifted teacher and musician). I was charging $30 (australian) an hour.

This girl is charging a large amount of money to teach the art that she knows. It may be that she does it in a very egotistical manner but who are we to judge it as wrong, who is she hurting?? Just because someone paints an egotistical painting and someone else pays a large amount of money for it, it doesnt mean that the artist is causing damage to their artform, they are just providing a service for which there is a demand.


HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:well said BB.

just cause you don't like it doesn't mean its wrong.

i don't agree with the wa she goes about things, but neither do i deny her the right to do what she is doing.

before anyone posts more about it, look up the page at NYC's post. it says it all.

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Konsti


Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria

Total posts: 785
Posted:if ppl are stupid enough to pay that kinda money, then i dont see any problems with it,



anybody with half a brain would find hop and get the free lessons here or go to one of the meets....



so whoever decides to pay 900 bucks for training is simply ignorant and deserves to pay this kinda stupidity tax...



i also think that half the fun of learning poi/staff is figuring things out on your own, building your own kinda style and flow, so those ppl are going to simply copy somebodies elses style....



i dont blame her at all, if she can pull it off and make fat cash like that. good for her.


"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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BurningByron


member
Location: Australia

Total posts: 340
Posted:"stupidity tax" HA I love it!

HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

Delete

Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:i kind of agree, but on the other hand i'd rather that all the other corruption and stuff didn't exist thatn poi went the same way.

wouldn#t it just be lovely if EVERYONE gave freely (or as freely as is economically possible) af their skills and time? Think how nice the world could be...


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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My hairs on fire


My hairs on fire

If its got pistons or boobs, its gonna be expensive...
Location: Cyprus

Total posts: 515
Posted:Well if shes managing to get regular clients paying this riduiculous sum of money for learning how to spin ide say fair playt to her.
I dont reallyt agree with the concept of it as thats realy not what i see poi as...if someone asks me how to do ''x-move'' ile go through it with them untill they can do it. i wont hopwever ask for any sorta funds at the end...maybe a toke or two wink
But as i said, if she finds enbough people with too much oney as sence and manages to pay her bills, good for her!


Henry Hill - 'One day the kids from the neighbourhood carried my mothers groceries all the way home, you know why? It was out of respect'...

ahmet_20valve_ahmet(at)hotmail(dot)com
Hope all is well : )

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Posted:I wish her the best of luck. She's come up with her prices based on what she figures she's worth. If no one else sees their value, they won't pay. Then she'll have to come down in what she charges or grumble about not making a go of it!



Quite often we get what we pay for. I for one am willing to pay more for quality. The guy/girl who teaches you in the park may be a great person, but may or may not the best teacher. Chances are if they are the best teacher sooner or later they'll get wise and start charging for it. Or if not, then have to make a go at a "real job" and not be able to devote the time to be the best!



Just my opinion!


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:artist page on temple of poi website



article in sf weekly, posted by spitfire elsewhere on hop



just to be neat smile


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:OMG, that is the funniest article I have read for ages!

Thanks coleman! eek


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:I think some people are being overly negative and insulting here. Good vibes turning to dust when somebody else's choices don't fir with your own.

We don't live in a free society - things, like food and shelter, cost money and so it somebody decides to make teaching poi thier career and charge money, then good on them. They're doing something they enjoy and teaching other people something they'll enjoy.

There's many reasons why people would pay to learn poi in a class and not through workshops or peer-to-peer - and luckily we have the choice. I regularly teach poi at Spitz and the workshops and lessons I give tend to be worthwhile, but contain a fraction of the teaching potential possible if I ran organised classes.

So, live and let live. Spin and let spin. And stop being so bloody negative!


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Frederick the Reckless
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

Frederick the Reckless

Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 241
Posted:on the one hand, the bottom line for this level of price-gouging is "robbery."
on the other hand, i have been tempted to add prices to teach firebreathing, as this is what most people approach me for. sure, i inform them of the dangers, such as burns, chemical pneumonia, etc. but if i taught too many people, the act would lose its luster.
perhaps this person is in an area where it's hard enough to get a gig, due to the overpopulation of poi performers. i know in portland, oregon, the market's so flooded that the only real way for a guy to get a consistent gig is to get naked and do it. so if you're looking to make a living at it and it works, good on you.


/just sayin'


Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas

Total posts: 3899
Posted:I do have to admit that I am a little suprised that someone who does the burningman thing would charge those prices for poi lessons, but heck, if she is bold enough to charge that much and people are silly enough to pay, then whatever!

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas

Total posts: 3899
Posted:and fredericks post makes me wonder if she was getting fed up teaching yahoos or telling them no and one day just said, "yeah, I'll teach you, for $500" to try to get rid of them and was suprised by a positive response and just took it from there...

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay

Total posts: 2216
Posted:everythings probably already been said about this but if someone can make a living from poi then good luck to them. i wouldn't mind a job like that. personally though, i get taught for free and pass on those skills in the same way i get them... but that's just me. smile

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Rovo
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

Rovo

(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 544
Posted:She wants to create a national multi-million dollar corporation marketing poi to the world. It also says in her article she wants to be a teen idle for poi. I'm sorry marketing poi to make millions is not showing any respect for the art. I already don't like some of the things corporations do and then now a Poi Corporation. I can't agree with that.

Peace, Love, Circles

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SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:I have a weekly poi class I teach here in Houston. When I first started teaching, I took over from another friend who didn't have time to teach due to other commitments.

It felt weird to charge people for the classes, but at the time, I didn't have a choice, as I was teaching at a studio, and part of the fees went to the studio, which was run by friends of mine.

Since then, the studio closed down, and I moved my class to another location. I still charge for the classes, though I don't charge an arm and a leg...

A friend of mine who teaches belly dancing told me I shouldn't feel weird for charging fees. "You're giving your time and experience to folks, and teaching them an art and skill. Dance classes are not too different from poi classes, and people have been charging for dance classes for years. You should get compensated for your time and experience, plain and simple."

There is merit in her statement.

To be honest, if I could make a living at spinning, I would. To make money at spinning, you can perform, teach or make and sell toys. I'm sure there are other ways, but thsoe are probably the three biggest.

When I spin, I do it for the enjoyment of the art, the love and passion I have for spinning....but when I put on a performance I do charge just as a magician would charge money for people to see his act, etc.

There is nothing wrong with earning money by doing something you love.

If someone can make a living as a full time poi instructor, then I say go for it....and I hope they stress safety in their classes when they have their students make the transition from practice poi to actual fire spinning.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and no one person's opinion is right or wrong...it is just simply their opinion. If my choices don't fit with your own, or my opinion doesn't fit with your own, don't slam me for it, but try and learn why you have such a vehement dislike of my opinion.

I've digressed....I do agree with Dom when he says live and let live, spin and let spin, and stop being so bloody negative!


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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