Forums > Social Discussion > Fire test beta - comments please
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
1) Skin is stronger than you think. Unless you're aiming a fire hose at it, any gentle steam of cold water is sufficient and will cool the skin.
2) The reason you don't want to use water on a third-degree burn is because of the risk of infection due to the break in the skin and the destruction of blood vessels that allow the immune system to work. Shock is caused by fluid loss when there are large areas of burns.
Malcolm,
1) What's a 4th degree burn? In the U.S. we only recognize three degrees. However, good point about not removing any adherent clothing from a 3rd degree burn.
2) The test told me when I got questions right, but not when I got them wrong. Perhaps the best thing to do is to provide the correct answer and then tell the user if s/he got it right or wrong after each question on the "scoring" screen.
-MLG
Written by: coleman
tut tut ucof.
running water has more chance of bursting a blister or breaking the skin.
and immersion cools an area far more efficiently than a stream would - especdially if it is a large area.
and questions 20 and 21 definitely have correct answers - if you use cold water on second or third degree burns, you increase the risk of shock.
1) Skin is stronger than you think. Unless you're aiming a fire hose at it, any gentle steam of cold water is sufficient and will cool the skin.
2) The reason you don't want to use water on a third-degree burn is because of the risk of infection due to the break in the skin and the destruction of blood vessels that allow the immune system to work. Shock is caused by fluid loss when there are large areas of burns.
Malcolm,
1) What's a 4th degree burn? In the U.S. we only recognize three degrees. However, good point about not removing any adherent clothing from a 3rd degree burn.
2) The test told me when I got questions right, but not when I got them wrong. Perhaps the best thing to do is to provide the correct answer and then tell the user if s/he got it right or wrong after each question on the "scoring" screen.
-MLG
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
member
87 posts
Location: Oklahoma, USA
87 posts
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posted:
w00t i only missed two and got them right the second time through, i knew a lot more than i thought.
w00t i only missed two and got them right the second time through, i knew a lot more than i thought.
<( ' ' )>
Fear the Kirby
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
well i think i got them all right, but 13 and 14 just showed my answer. i put type abc for 13 (in case there's fuel on the person) and true for 14 and on the "results" it just listed the answers i put. they're correct, right?
well i think i got them all right, but 13 and 14 just showed my answer. i put type abc for 13 (in case there's fuel on the person) and true for 14 and on the "results" it just listed the answers i put. they're correct, right?
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
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member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
I kept re-submitting my results because it said "answers will be shown when all questions are answered" and I had checked every box.
What's the answer for the fire extinguisher spray time? I assumed it was less then 30 seconds, because if it were more it would probably shoot out of your hands if they didn't put an expensive regulator on it.
I kept re-submitting my results because it said "answers will be shown when all questions are answered" and I had checked every box.
What's the answer for the fire extinguisher spray time? I assumed it was less then 30 seconds, because if it were more it would probably shoot out of your hands if they didn't put an expensive regulator on it.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Also I think it's safe to say the real results of this poll will decesively demostrate one thing.
That thing is. Funktopotomus.
Also I think it's safe to say the real results of this poll will decesively demostrate one thing.
That thing is. Funktopotomus.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,084 posts
Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Pooh-Bah
2,084 posts
Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Posted:
I'm no authority on this kinda thing, but I would think puting cling film over a burn would be dangerous, in case the heat of the burn made the plastic start to melt, then you've not only got a burn to deal with, but bits of melted plastic to peel off. I think that's why they say to use a peice of clean material. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm no authority on this kinda thing, but I would think puting cling film over a burn would be dangerous, in case the heat of the burn made the plastic start to melt, then you've not only got a burn to deal with, but bits of melted plastic to peel off. I think that's why they say to use a peice of clean material. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Pooh-Bah
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
Posted:
good test guys.. I got more than I thought I would and have learnt a few things too.
good test guys.. I got more than I thought I would and have learnt a few things too.
I honour you as an aspect of myself..
You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
If the burn on your body is still hot enough to melt clingfilm, then no amount o' doctors willbe able to help you, no matter how fast you then get to the hospital...
Written by: myco
but I would think puting cling film over a burn would be dangerous, in case the heat of the burn made the plastic start to melt, then you've not only got a burn to deal with, but bits of melted plastic to peel off
If the burn on your body is still hot enough to melt clingfilm, then no amount o' doctors willbe able to help you, no matter how fast you then get to the hospital...
BRONZE Member
member
37 posts
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
member
37 posts
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posted:
ABC fire extinguisher? you mean they have machines that put OUT fires? and how come the fire test doesnt condone fire poi performers? at least give us a little credit for researching our fuels and not setting our hair alight!?
other than that tis wa fun and i scored pretty well, besides flash point?! again, what on earth was that?
thank you
Daz
ABC fire extinguisher? you mean they have machines that put OUT fires? and how come the fire test doesnt condone fire poi performers? at least give us a little credit for researching our fuels and not setting our hair alight!?
other than that tis wa fun and i scored pretty well, besides flash point?! again, what on earth was that?
thank you
Daz
Anger Is A Gift
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,084 posts
Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Pooh-Bah
2,084 posts
Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Posted:
UCOF, i've seen plastic wrap get soft and squishy on warm food. I don't know what the average temperature of burns is, but I'm asuming if they haven't been put under water or otherwise cooled they'd still be mighty hot. Did I mention I hate being wrong?
UCOF, i've seen plastic wrap get soft and squishy on warm food. I don't know what the average temperature of burns is, but I'm asuming if they haven't been put under water or otherwise cooled they'd still be mighty hot. Did I mention I hate being wrong?
BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
hmmm, i got a whooping 10 wrong, but the things I had wrong were mostly due to the different system and/or language we use here.
1.: I got thrown off by 4th degree burns as well.
2. here in holland we don't know ABC extinguishers, we use different naming, so by assuming it was one type (foam) I got all answers to do with this wrong, and because I had them wrong I then assumed ABC means powder extinguisher, and got them right.
3. the other thing was the MSDS part. a language problem I reckon.
the only thing i had wrong besides all this was the water/clean cloth thing. I chose to call 911 (or 112 here).
so maye this test should be marked as an australian test, and have another, international test going as well, so we at least stand a chance to get a perfect score as well?
hmmm, i got a whooping 10 wrong, but the things I had wrong were mostly due to the different system and/or language we use here.
1.: I got thrown off by 4th degree burns as well.
2. here in holland we don't know ABC extinguishers, we use different naming, so by assuming it was one type (foam) I got all answers to do with this wrong, and because I had them wrong I then assumed ABC means powder extinguisher, and got them right.
3. the other thing was the MSDS part. a language problem I reckon.
the only thing i had wrong besides all this was the water/clean cloth thing. I chose to call 911 (or 112 here).
so maye this test should be marked as an australian test, and have another, international test going as well, so we at least stand a chance to get a perfect score as well?
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Myco.. have you ever seen cling film? The only way I can get that to melt by holding a lighter underneath it.
Myco.. have you ever seen cling film? The only way I can get that to melt by holding a lighter underneath it.
BRONZE Member
Member
98 posts
Location: ireland
Member
98 posts
Location: ireland
Posted:
i only got 17 right - i really need to do some study on this.
i only got 17 right - i really need to do some study on this.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,084 posts
Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Pooh-Bah
2,084 posts
Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Posted:
OK, OK, I admit defeat UCOF, and trust me, I don't do that easily. MAYBE I was being a little over the top with the whole, melting plastic wrap thing. I still don't think it's a good idea, specially if it's an open wound. But I can see that ur just as stubborn as me, and I can tell u now I don't like it. I'm off to sook now.
I hope ur happy now that u've broken me. No, wait, I'm being over the top again...um, have a good day? 
OK, OK, I admit defeat UCOF, and trust me, I don't do that easily. MAYBE I was being a little over the top with the whole, melting plastic wrap thing. I still don't think it's a good idea, specially if it's an open wound. But I can see that ur just as stubborn as me, and I can tell u now I don't like it. I'm off to sook now.
I hope ur happy now that u've broken me. No, wait, I'm being over the top again...um, have a good day? GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
21, and im not sure i agree with some of the questions/answers either.
3(nationality specific (N)) the whole insurance thing. im not sure if all countries have that law setup
2(i think the question/answer is wrong(I)) the tip of the flame being hottest bit. 3 years of physics says its not.
5(cosmetic(C)) the flash point one could be better worded - not repeating flash point in all the answers
8(C) better wording - instead of 'human torch', say 'catch on fire'
11,12,13(N) give what's in the extinguisher, not the code for it. IE, instead of 'class a', have 'water (class a)' or something
13(C) ' Fire Authorities confirm that this is the best way to deal with human torch fires (i.e. when people's clothing catches alight).' while conveying the question, its a little bit weird to read. perhaps "the best way to deal with a 'human torch' fire (when clothing catches on fire), as confirmed by fire safety authorities, is to use:" just to make it read better.
18(I) the other reason you dont put creams/lotions etc on a burn is that it can 'trap' the heat
19(I) I think it really depends on the type of burn as well. sure, a class one burn that size wouldnt cause much concern, but a third degree that size probably would.
20(I) I've always been told to hold the burn under flowing water as well. i think its also got something to do with the water staying cold, and accessibility. its damn hard to dunk your shoulder in a bucket, and if the burn was, say, on the middle of your lower arm, a fairly large amount of arm would be underwater. this, i think, would cause the water to heat up a bit and not be of as much use.
Never heard of a fourth degree burn either.
21, and im not sure i agree with some of the questions/answers either.
3(nationality specific (N)) the whole insurance thing. im not sure if all countries have that law setup
2(i think the question/answer is wrong(I)) the tip of the flame being hottest bit. 3 years of physics says its not.
5(cosmetic(C)) the flash point one could be better worded - not repeating flash point in all the answers
8(C) better wording - instead of 'human torch', say 'catch on fire'
11,12,13(N) give what's in the extinguisher, not the code for it. IE, instead of 'class a', have 'water (class a)' or something
13(C) ' Fire Authorities confirm that this is the best way to deal with human torch fires (i.e. when people's clothing catches alight).' while conveying the question, its a little bit weird to read. perhaps "the best way to deal with a 'human torch' fire (when clothing catches on fire), as confirmed by fire safety authorities, is to use:" just to make it read better.
18(I) the other reason you dont put creams/lotions etc on a burn is that it can 'trap' the heat
19(I) I think it really depends on the type of burn as well. sure, a class one burn that size wouldnt cause much concern, but a third degree that size probably would.
20(I) I've always been told to hold the burn under flowing water as well. i think its also got something to do with the water staying cold, and accessibility. its damn hard to dunk your shoulder in a bucket, and if the burn was, say, on the middle of your lower arm, a fairly large amount of arm would be underwater. this, i think, would cause the water to heat up a bit and not be of as much use.
Never heard of a fourth degree burn either.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
member
22 posts
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
22 posts
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posted:
Only got the 1st two wrong... erm... I'm pretty sure I got the 2nd one right, really.
Anyway, I'm glad to learn that I knew more than I thought I did. It made me think about safety issues for a moment, which is a GOOD THING.
Props.
Only got the 1st two wrong... erm... I'm pretty sure I got the 2nd one right, really.
Anyway, I'm glad to learn that I knew more than I thought I did. It made me think about safety issues for a moment, which is a GOOD THING.
Props.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
agree:
3 is nationality specific.
2 is wrong.
a burns nurse tells me 19 is also wrong(in this country? shes an aussie tho)
test is a brilliant thing tho malcolm.
oh my god tho i got number 1 wrong by not reading the answers. a chemistry degree and everything. and 35 pages of MSDS info on my pootah!
agree:
3 is nationality specific.
2 is wrong.
a burns nurse tells me 19 is also wrong(in this country? shes an aussie tho)
test is a brilliant thing tho malcolm.
oh my god tho i got number 1 wrong by not reading the answers. a chemistry degree and everything. and 35 pages of MSDS info on my pootah!
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
The tip of the flame is absoutely NOT the hottest part.
I get 120 15 yearolds that prove this every year.
It's common chemistry knowledge that the hottest part of a flame is just below where the color starts... Not the top.
It's pretty easy to prove given the right equiptment.
The tip of the flame is absoutely NOT the hottest part.
I get 120 15 yearolds that prove this every year.
It's common chemistry knowledge that the hottest part of a flame is just below where the color starts... Not the top.
It's pretty easy to prove given the right equiptment.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Yup... Here's the experiment I do.
The hottest part of the flame is 'just above the inner cone'. A better description than 'where the color starts' indeed.
This is for a gas-fuel driven flame but is true for any fire.
The tip of the flame is not the hottest and won't make copper wire glow as brightly as lower down, where the combustion is most concentrated.
Yup... Here's the experiment I do.
The hottest part of the flame is 'just above the inner cone'. A better description than 'where the color starts' indeed.
This is for a gas-fuel driven flame but is true for any fire.
The tip of the flame is not the hottest and won't make copper wire glow as brightly as lower down, where the combustion is most concentrated.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Only got 2 wrong, and got them right the second time.
Although I was guesing a little on some.
Great test though - I think people should be made to do it and get over 20 before they can purchase fire toys from the shop!
Only got 2 wrong, and got them right the second time.
Although I was guesing a little on some.
Great test though - I think people should be made to do it and get over 20 before they can purchase fire toys from the shop!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Ah, fair enough.
Oh, off-topic, I noticed that signature lines have been added back into the "reply to this post" function.
Written by: Malcolm
The first time a person attempts all the questions their answers are stored in a database.
I am still writing the statistics pages, which will include information about the answers, and what percentage of people get each question correct.
1. 4th degree burns have been mentioned in some UK medical journals so I added them to the list.
2. I quite like to give people the extra chances to see if they can get all correct.
Ah, fair enough.
Oh, off-topic, I noticed that signature lines have been added back into the "reply to this post" function.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
after thinking about it a bit, im actually not so sure that is wrong, especially in the context of poi. sure, a bunsen burner on full air it is, but what about on safety flame, which is more like what comes off a poi?
after thinking about it a bit, im actually not so sure that is wrong, especially in the context of poi. sure, a bunsen burner on full air it is, but what about on safety flame, which is more like what comes off a poi?
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
well it kills us anal physics types to have it worded like that at any rate - a better way to put it might be, "which will burn you faster, the base or tip of a flame?"
Written by: MiG
after thinking about it a bit, im actually not so sure that is wrong, especially in the context of poi. sure, a bunsen burner on full air it is, but what about on safety flame, which is more like what comes off a poi?
well it kills us anal physics types to have it worded like that at any rate - a better way to put it might be, "which will burn you faster, the base or tip of a flame?"
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
It's the same concept. I promise.
Written by: MiG
after thinking about it a bit, im actually not so sure that is wrong, especially in the context of poi. sure, a bunsen burner on full air it is, but what about on safety flame, which is more like what comes off a poi?
It's the same concept. I promise.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
flames and where they are hottest.
flames and where they are hottest.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
ehm, all very interesting, but i got a quiz question of my own:
knowing exactly which part of the flame is hottest comes in handy at a fire performer's accident because... ?
in my opinion if the flame is that big that you have to search for the hottest part to extinguish it, it is already way too late.
somebody should have been there with the fire blanket ages earlier!!!
ehm, all very interesting, but i got a quiz question of my own:
knowing exactly which part of the flame is hottest comes in handy at a fire performer's accident because... ? in my opinion if the flame is that big that you have to search for the hottest part to extinguish it, it is already way too late. somebody should have been there with the fire blanket ages earlier!!!
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
its less about 'someone is on fire, which bit do you think is hottest'.
its more about having a wide knowledge of what we are dealing with.
if we know how fire works, we have a better chance of preventing accidents.
and if you knew how fires worked you'd know that you don't need to locate the hottest part of the flame to extinguish it at all.
its less about 'someone is on fire, which bit do you think is hottest'.
its more about having a wide knowledge of what we are dealing with.
if we know how fire works, we have a better chance of preventing accidents.
and if you knew how fires worked you'd know that you don't need to locate the hottest part of the flame to extinguish it at all.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
yeah,
so it would be more usefull to discuss which things cause fire to burn, instead of what the hottest point is.
so question: which 3 elements cause fire?
knowing this means knowing you can take away one of the elements to kill it.
and this is one of the questions missing in the quiz, come to think of it...
yeah,
so it would be more usefull to discuss which things cause fire to burn, instead of what the hottest point is.
so question: which 3 elements cause fire?
knowing this means knowing you can take away one of the elements to kill it.
and this is one of the questions missing in the quiz, come to think of it...
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Actually I think the question that was made very present in the minds of fire performers is "make sure you know what temperature [censored] is, and what temperature [censored] that can combust combusts at, and know how fire spreads to avoid killing nearly an entire bar full of people in a dumb pyrotechnics accident (you know great white)"
Knowhing which 3 elements cause fire is rather elementary. It doesn't really help you if you have no concept of the balance between these 3 elements and how much damage the thermal energy from fire can do to skin/tree's/dry grass/buildings/etc etc...
If you have no idea how hot a flame actually is, or no idea how hot something needs to be to combust, then their is a good chance you might take an unncecsary risk and cause a lot of damage.
My rule of thumb is anything greater then "toasty warm" shouldn't make contact with anything else, and I have no idea how much heat is delivered by a fire breath as I have never stood above one, and thus, I will never fire breath with anything over my head.
Also, I will not wear synthetics, let my hair catch on fire, throw poi at fluffy dogs, or become overly arrogant in how much contact I can make with my burning wicks. Their is not very much time between "ouch" to "ouch im burnt" to "ouch im in shock require immediate medical attention" because I have now charred my skin down to the muscle.
Actually I think the question that was made very present in the minds of fire performers is "make sure you know what temperature [censored] is, and what temperature [censored] that can combust combusts at, and know how fire spreads to avoid killing nearly an entire bar full of people in a dumb pyrotechnics accident (you know great white)"
Knowhing which 3 elements cause fire is rather elementary. It doesn't really help you if you have no concept of the balance between these 3 elements and how much damage the thermal energy from fire can do to skin/tree's/dry grass/buildings/etc etc...
If you have no idea how hot a flame actually is, or no idea how hot something needs to be to combust, then their is a good chance you might take an unncecsary risk and cause a lot of damage.
My rule of thumb is anything greater then "toasty warm" shouldn't make contact with anything else, and I have no idea how much heat is delivered by a fire breath as I have never stood above one, and thus, I will never fire breath with anything over my head.
Also, I will not wear synthetics, let my hair catch on fire, throw poi at fluffy dogs, or become overly arrogant in how much contact I can make with my burning wicks. Their is not very much time between "ouch" to "ouch im burnt" to "ouch im in shock require immediate medical attention" because I have now charred my skin down to the muscle.
BRONZE Member
member
136 posts
Location: USA
member
136 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I took the test and it seems like I did well because there are alot that say "Correct" next to my answers. There's some that don't say "Correct", but they don't say "Incorrect" either, they just don't have any response whatsoever... Are those the ones that I got wrong?
I took the test and it seems like I did well because there are alot that say "Correct" next to my answers. There's some that don't say "Correct", but they don't say "Incorrect" either, they just don't have any response whatsoever... Are those the ones that I got wrong?
I AM working.
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