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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Official US govt description of operations TIPS:

Operation TIPS - the Terrorism Information and Prevention System - will be a nationwide program giving millions of American truckers, letter carriers, train conductors, ship captains, utility employees, and others a formal way to report suspicious terrorist activity. Operation TIPS, a project of the U.S. Department of Justice, will begin as a pilot program in 10 cities that will be selected.

Operation TIPS, involving 1 million workers in the pilot stage, will be a national reporting system that allows these workers, whose routines make them well-positioned to recognize unusual events, to report suspicious activity. Every participant in this new program will be given an Operation TIPS information sticker to be affixed to the cab of their vehicle or placed in some other public location so that the toll-free reporting number is readily available.

So, what do you think? i haev some follow up commentary myself, but not until i get reactions from this from you guys.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Due to the Patriot Act you can now be detained on hearsay and suspicion of terrorist activity. No proof needed. Add the fact that many agencies definition of terrorism is very vague. Add TIPS. All equals a paranoid nation with reduced civil liberties.

Get your constituation out of it's fancy glass case and use it as toilet paper, 'cos it ain't worth much more


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Twirl'N'Burn
Booojakasha
Location: Brisbane QLD Australia
Member Since: 29th Nov 2001
Total posts: 121
Posted:Posted by Mike Grinny
quote: And it sickens me to see how people are so afraid of death that they are afraid to give up living to avoid it. Im with you Mike that is my sentiments exactly I couldn't tell you exactly who said it but it goes

"Life is ours to be spent, not saved"

Ill fininsh this thought later gotta go.....

No wait ill finish it now - basically life is a risk you have to be prepared to be able to give up some of your freedoms if you want to at least enjoy a comfortable level of safety (for lack of a better word) Just my $00.02c

Later dudes

PS Mike I always enjoy reading your posts man they are always worth reading and insightful.


Simply an excuse to play with fire.

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Spiral
Spiral

Oolering Man
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Member Since: 12th Jan 2002
Total posts: 729
Posted:Society bad.

World bad.

Lets all go back to living in caves and dying of things like the flu and chickenpox.


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legion
member
Location: tuesday
Member Since: 24th Jun 2002
Total posts: 73
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link


We all float down here.

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Kinudin (Soul Fyre)
veteran
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Member Since: 21st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1325
Posted:quote:Originally posted by legion:
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahVery well said.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:If you absolutly must know, this system existed informaly since WWII, they just gave it a new name and basically "Bumped" it up to the top of the list. Yes the average Joe American can rat out his fellow countrymen. It is perfectly leagle.

Say like you and I are neighbors (you being anybody who reads this since its a hypothetical situation) and last night you and your significant other get into a loud argument the whole neighborhood can hear. The next day I see you getting out of your car slamming the door, swearing and carying a brand new shotgun. Now putting two and two together I may thing that your gonna do something stupid. I have every right to call the cops. Hell according to the law it is a crime for me not to call the cops.

So, this "new" tactic in the war against terror *cough cough bull shit cough cough* is not really that new.

Blow it out of perportion if you feel the need but I could care less what they do when it comes down to something like this.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Ray, that's why I have mixed feelings on it. I feel like it does nothing new, it's just a publicity stunt, and it will turn people into spies on each-other.

I think Americans are already prepared to report suspicious activity. We don't need TIPS.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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AardvarkOnAcid
member
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Member Since: 5th Jul 2002
Total posts: 92
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
If you absolutly must know, this system existed informaly since WWII, they just gave it a new name and basically "Bumped" it up to the top of the list. Yes the average Joe American can rat out his fellow countrymen. It is perfectly leagle.

Say like you and I are neighbors (you being anybody who reads this since its a hypothetical situation) and last night you and your significant other get into a loud argument the whole neighborhood can hear. The next day I see you getting out of your car slamming the door, swearing and carying a brand new shotgun. Now putting two and two together I may thing that your gonna do something stupid. I have every right to call the cops. Hell according to the law it is a crime for me not to call the cops.

So, this "new" tactic in the war against terror *cough cough bull shit cough cough* is not really that new.

Blow it out of perportion if you feel the need but I could care less what they do when it comes down to something like this.No. Thats not the point. The point is that these are not your neighbors, but rather cable repair people, plumbers, landlords, etc. spying on you.

Nosy neighbors is one thing, an organized system of spying by the government on its citizens is alot different. Once is human nature, the other is an intolerable encroachment on ones privacy. If I pay a bleeding plumber to fix my sink, I want his damn attention on dealing with whatever problem I'm paying him to fix. Not going through my library and looking for "suspicious" items.

Remember the bastards behind this are the same people who labeled "Reclaim the streets" (an SF improptu rave collective) as a terrorist organization. What happens when having a party flier on your coffee table gets you marked for being a potential drug offender (cause we all know ravers are all useless brainless druggies, right?), or a copy of marx or chomsky gets you marked a potential subversive? Is this the scope of TIPS in its present incarnation? Not really, but once you have people explicitly spying on you at the governments behest, how hard would it be to change whats being looked for? After all, they'd only want to know about criminals... "if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't be worried".


Is that all life comes down to? To be lying face down with an overenthusiastic guy in pink pin-striped pants sitting on top of you and grunting? -- Random MusingsSex, Drugs and Psytrance.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:quote:Originally posted by AardvarkOnAcid:
[QB]
cause we all know ravers are all useless brainless druggies, right?)
[QB]Hahaha, I found that funny, sorry Aardvark but its 0stupid in the morning my sence of humor is jacked up hehe.

It is not like they are allowing them to tap into our phone lines or set up hiden cameras in our walls. You have always been allowed and it has always been suggested that you report anything that might be out of the norm. I mean whats the worst that could happen? Piss someone off? Whats the best that could happen? Save some lives?

The system is a publicity stunt nothing more. Just blow it off. You know there is lovly country side in New Mexico I am sure if you really wanted to you could buy some land, live out in the middle of know where and have no neighbors to worry about.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:i think this realy got dug up when it didn't need to be... since it's NOT happening... which is why i didn't repost my thoughts.

But ray.... er... you don't actually belive just b/c the govt isn't allowed to tap ur phone that they won't do it anyway if they decide ur affiliated with a group they don't like? plus i think in the patriot act it makes it easier to do this legally... but our govt doesn't always need to do things legally.....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Kyrian, the Gov is so sly that they can tap your phone read your emails, doesnt matter how smart or good you are they can get you if they want.

I know they will do whatever they want and will worry about its legality if they get cought!!!


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:*sigh* just making sure.

it pisses me off, really. i mean...

ok, ok, so i'm an idealist. everyoen abuses power.

power sucks.

huh, i'm not making sense. i'll try again later.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:*Hands Kyrian some Nutella, Caffeen and some fire*

Take these and try again in an hour.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutly.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Prometheus
Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Member Since: 30th Jun 2002
Total posts: 459
Posted:How does one fight terror?

For the last 226 years, this country has been, militarily, king of the mountain. Whenever trouble breaks out, we (Americans) show up, and put a stop to the 'enemy aggressor.' Nothing gets resolved, mind you, we just like to blow things up. Common theme in American history.

But when it comes to idealistic enemies, we are hopeless. If it's intangible, we simply don't know how to handle it. We can talk about it, we can condemn it and we declare war on it. (We don't do anything about it, just declare war on it) The war on poverty, the war on cancer, the war on aids, the war on drugs...We need to get serious.

There are maybe 10-12 major groups in the world that have claimed responsibility for terrrorist acts, and countless individuals, as well. There are 266 countries who are the potential victims. This is like a small child being terrified of a bee, and too afraid to squash it.

There is no convential defense. There is no early warning system. There is no counter-attacks. It is a war of irregular means. That is how we will win it. We need to make would-be terrorists afriad to step into the sunllight, much less drive one of their car bombs down Main St. We need to fill them with such fear and dread and trepidation, they won't think of ever hurting another person again.

It's not one country, or even a group of countries. It's not any single race, religion or faction. It's individuals we're fighting. Dropping bombs on Afghanistan may treat a symptom, but it's doing nothing to stop the disease.

This proposed system of having us spy on each other reminds me of the cloak and dagger stories on the 60's. It's an interesting move for the government to make. Is it wise? Yes. Is it abusable, again, yes. Do the names McCarthy or Salem mean anything to you?

If anybody can come up with some answers, I'd sure like ta hear 'em. Lord knows I don't have many...


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:How do you fight an invisible enimy?

A) Find a way to see it

B) Become invisible yourself

-----------------

How do you fight terror?

A) Find away to prevent it

B) Become terror yourself

------------------

How does this solve anything?

Sorry folks you cant stop world hatered or even lesson it. If you do somthing to help people A, people B might not care but somewhere between people B and infinate someone will get pissed and wish ill things on you.

Like I said before, the only way to have peace on earth is to remove man from the the equation!


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:ok, so on that note, how do we deal with world hatred ray? if we can't make things better, then what do we do?

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:At my most cynical depressed moments I favour sticking my fingers in my ears, closing my eyes and loudly singing "lah, lah, lah!!! I can't hear you!!!"

On other occasions I realise that the only persons actions I can really control are my own, and so that is my contribution to world peace. I try not to hate & try not to be a total bastard.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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