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Filthy-Ralph


Filthy-Ralph

member
Location: Barnstaple, Devon, UK

Total posts: 66
Posted:ok so we were having a discussion the other day about progression from 5 beat weave.
What is the highest number performed? is there any such possibility in the 9beat?


If hope can grow from dirt like me.....It can be done.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:some peaple spend a long time and a lot of pain doing 9bt btb. I cant think why.

rev can do 11bt. i think, but the theory is odd.

personally i wouldent bother with anything higher, there are prettier tricks around. tho clean 7 is pretty sweet.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:there's nothing odd about the theory..

do you believe in giant weaves: yes or no?

if the answer is yes, then apply your knowledge of giant weave mechanics (ie fixed-point rotation and its limits) to your weaves..


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:7 beats aren't too uncommon now days. Ive never seen a 9 performed but I did see Rev do a sorta sloppy 11 on video. I believe 11 may be the most possible without wraps but Im not certain.

And I agree with Nx? While I do think moves such as the 11 beat would look fantastic if you can get them solid, I think they're really more effort then they're worth because with your arms being so tangled it serverely limits your transition opportunities. Its more like an "Im the biggest poi geek on the planet" type of move... No offense, Rev wave You da man! wink


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:I'm not the man, I am THE GEEK.. aka -bastard- newbie messiah.. LOL

but seriously.. perhaps one day we'll uncover some other concept to throw on top of the two in the 11bt.. until then I think 11 is tops..

and for the record.. I still hold that the best part of the 11 isnt the 11bts or anything like that.. its the sheer amount of twist that must occur so that when you unwind and open into a seperation time slows down to a near stop.. then suddenly acceleraters stupidly fast as time has to catch up when you begin to twist again.. heheh.. otherwise.. why do it..


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Now can you do the 11 beat with anti-spin, Mr. THE GEEK?

ubblol


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:eek to be honest.. I don't know if the arms could bend enough for 7... though you could probably rotate the body against the spin for fixed point rotation thing.. so maybe then 7.. but I think that would push its limits..

oh damn.. that was a trick question wasnt it.. lolsign


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tenticle


tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:

Total posts: 275
Posted:There's several ways to do a 7. less ways to do a 9 (unless you have a really curvy spine). only one way i know of to do an 11, and arashi claimed a 13 once...
But it all depends on whether you want to dance with your arms wraped around your head or not.

--ben


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:any reference to this mysterious 13.. because I'm at a loss as to where another 180 degrees could come from without repeating..

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:I wanna add to my geek status..

if you use the 7bt arm twist for your 5bt antispin weave, it allows you to situate it in such a way that you can can push the inside poi back to the outside (like twisting a 7bt to a 9bt.. ) however I can only get my left poi to reach inside (to lead to the right) because I have handles.. It's not clean.. nor can I do it as a weave but I can twist it up that much.. so do with that what you will ..


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Filthy-Ralph


Filthy-Ralph

member
Location: Barnstaple, Devon, UK

Total posts: 66
Posted:11? i can only imagine how that looks....dont suppose the vid of that one is online?
I think for the moment i will stick with 5 until i have it behind the back. thanks a lot for the info. I've actually learnt something.
cheers


If hope can grow from dirt like me.....It can be done.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Hey Rev, if you get some spare time, think you could make a quick clip of an anti-spin 3 beat weave for me? Still dont quite understand the anti-spin weave thing.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:you'll have to wait til I track down the kinda of socks I had in all my other clips.. those wore through and ripped at the handles.. and I tried a different kind but can't spin them as nicely (not to mention lost them, which in turn puts me on the hunt for two new hackey sacks)..



but I will first chance I get..



I have a clip that I will look for that does a 3bt antispin then offsets.. then 3bt antispins again.. until I lose control and end up mostly normal spin.. but that's not -just- antispin, so I'm not so sure howe much help it would be.. I'll drop you a pm when I find it.



oh guys.. for the record.. if you do the butterfly weave.. that uses weave motions.. and butterfly pattern.. you antispin.. for example..

with a forward spin butterfly on the right.. the right hand comes over and leads to the left side.. on the left side.. the lefat hand must come under the right hand and back over the right hand.. to lead to the right.. that last part is antispin.. because its a forward weave motions with a reverse spinnign poi..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1099611629)


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laurab


newbie


Total posts: 2
Posted:what is a giant weave?

I can do the seven beat, but can only imagine the 9 or 11 to look quite messy, does it?


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laurab


newbie


Total posts: 2
Posted:does any one know of a kind roll over the back when doing the behind the back weave turn to the reverse behind the back weave

But not the two classic turns from the behind the back weave turn to the reverse behind the back weave.

Does anyone know any cool moves you can go from the 5 beat behind the back?

Whats a fountain involving the 5 beat, can it be done behind the back?


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Hasnt there alrady been a thread about this?

*realises he is stepping off into the depths surrounded by Rev and Icon (and a mention of Arashi)*

Um...

Laurab: Can I call you Lau Rab from now on please? and you also seems to greatly enjoy your BtB moves. This is called Tom Jones syndrome. Its not unusual. smile

and in answer to your question Lau Rab, and I can only spoeak for myself here and not for everyone, but I dont know any moves. At all. I dont even really spin poi. I only post on here cos it makes me feel like I have friends. rolleyes

There goes my over active imagination again. I need to do something about that.

*skins up*

Thats better.

smile


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:lolsign

"I don't care who ya are, dats funny right der.."


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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Arashi did an 11 beat spider, not 11 beat weave.
Rev would you describe how you do 11 beat weave, and where the link for the video. smile
thanks


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:take two concepts.. and put them together..



concept 1- the fixed point rotation... some people believe it.. some dont... if you beleive that you can do a giant(longarm) 3bt weave.. then you believe in the concept of fixed point rotation.. since in the giant weave you must rotate the shoudlers, in order to make it 'weave'... you also understand that this fixed point rotation can't go more than 180 degrees past a full circle.. hence 3bt being the max beat count for fixed rotation..



concept 2- 9bt no wrap weave.. simple enough..



now the idea is that after you twist up the 9bt, the points become fixed.. (ie lock the hands) and rotate 180 degrees.. like you would during a giant weave.. and unrotate those fixed points on the other side, before unlocking (untwisting) the hands.. basically you can only go the 180 not anymore because once you reach 360, you are repeating motions.. the 180 doesnt repeat any motions..



give me a bit to find and link the clip.. its not done clean.. but it demonstrates the point.. and the trick is.. once you get it down like in the clip, comes the true challenge of doing it with the feet planted.. basically, if you keep your feet planted, you realize that this 'fixed point rotation' is just a torso twist after the arms twist as much as they can, and not merely a piroutte type thing..



I'll edit this in a bit with the link..



and for the record.. arashi deleted the eltist swan song.. else I'd quote where he said he could a 13bt weave.. which is where I assume the others got arashi can do 13...



edit:

The motions stalled beat by beat (right click save as)



11bt imperfect.. (right click save as)

EDITED_BY: Rev (1100283496)


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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Rev thanks for posting those, its what i expected
lolsign
Monkey.
Thats an 11 beat spider, that is not an 11 beat weave, and a particularly contorted way of making an 11 beat spider too.

You might call it an 11 beat weave, but it is not, its very spidery.
It looks very much to me like this spider is probably: A 7 beat weave, with a (doubley crossed arm) turning 2 beat weave to reverese 2 beat weaves (above the shoulders) stuck in it.
either that or some kind of fit ubblol

I'm standing by my 2 year old theory that 7circles is the most that can be done on one side of a weave (without wrapping, turning, contortion, turning upside down, gymnastics or throws) is the most that can be done, based on human anatomy and I'm very happy to be proved wrong on this.

BUT, I have got a bit of a theory on how a 9 without might just be possible for certain flexible individuals with poi on fingertip loops. But its soo ugle I'm not even going there.


AND I'd like to congratulate Rev on making the first link, this is my 2nd favorite video ever posted on HOP clap thankx If you set that one to music - something awful, 80 and slightly romantic (ask benjamin teabags for a suggestion) then you'll have a fair chance of taking the top spot . lolsign

Word


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:ubblol

It a wery wery wery goood wideo.

Wise man say: Your go all wibbley and unhumanlinke. What did you do to posess such awesome powers? What unspeakable evil have you slain?

umm

"Back to life,
Back to reality"


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wingrd


wingrd

Member
Location: Northampton,UK

Total posts: 18
Posted:Rev you are the best!

D

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:LOL smile

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:I don't get it drew?



the 9bt? if you can do 7, you can do 9... it doesnt involve anything funky..



for instance.. on the left hand side, during a forward weave..



left elbow on top of right elbow..

then bring the left arm around the right forearm (thus the 7bt)

well you can't twist more up at this poin, so turn your hand so that it faces down, and you can continue to twist around the right arm.. thus the right hand (though its elbow being on bottom) is higher than the left hand.. since it spirals up the arm, and then back down the arm.. (edit: maybe it is funky.. I realized that my wrists when I twist back down tend to twist into each other a bit, but its mainly getting the left hand twisted back down to the right wrist rather than the right hand, that I think really makes it work.. *shrug*)



thus getting you 9 circles no problem.. no funky finger loops needed...



the fixed point rotation thing.. can be done to any weave.. yeah it looks awefully wobbly in my video.. but I mean.. its frickin rough.. but I've gotten a bit better at it.. I don't look like I'm flailng all over.. and the key I think is being able to do it without moving your legs.. I can get it sometimes.. other times I fall off balance..





can you explain spidering? I've always pictures this wavy pattern as spidering.. but formthe sound of things I must be way off..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1100300428)


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Filthy-Ralph


Filthy-Ralph

member
Location: Barnstaple, Devon, UK

Total posts: 66
Posted:that video is sweet. well done rev. this thead is getting very very technical but i like it. think i may learn something soon.

If hope can grow from dirt like me.....It can be done.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I think what Drew is trying to say is that on it's own a 7 (or 9 with finger crossing) is the most you can do as a pure weave without having to twist your body up and so on...

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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tenticle


tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:

Total posts: 275
Posted:i still dont think the elbow over 7 is a pure weave anyway... it works more like a windmill. and it's possible to do an 11 like this without turning around and around, or acrobatics or fingertips, but it does involve contortion. you have to bend over sideways and turn away from the poi a little, then turn 180' and sigh in relief. can't do it without moving my feet though.
and in terms of pure weaves (as in, you can do them wallplane without turning, one transition over the shoulder and one under), nine dosn't require much once you can do the seven, as theres loads of room once you get it smooth. eleven requires turning round under the poi though, although if you can turn under the 11, 13 is just another turn away, but that would be cheating, as you could just keep turning around to add more beats. but if you can do a 5 beat ugly weave (one arm reaching behind your head, weaving around the other shoulder), you can pop into it from a 7 to make 9, or 9 to make 11, whitch might sound odd, but a 3bt ugly weave the same as part of the 7 but done on the other side of the body.

--ben


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(_..:::N!NTENDO BO!:::.._)


(_..:::N!NTENDO BO!:::.._)

newbie


Total posts: 17
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link


!!!WheN PeOplE StArT HaTiNg ThAts WheN YoU KnOw YoU MaDe It!!!

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:I agree.. if you turn your shoulders more than 90 degrees or so, you've just broken the 'true weave'. It's completely historical though, Rev, not technical. so don't take it personally. :::wayne's world flashback noise:::

The Jedi Louise got up to 9 'circles' by turning the shoulders 180 degrees, and keeping feet in place, IIRC, so it was harder to see the second cheat. If you still don't see it as a 'cheat', try to do all that extra twisting at the end of a 3 beat instead of a 7 beat. It should still work perfectly. Or better yet, hold the poi over your head and spin around in a circle just slowly enough to keep them in corkscrew plane and split time. 'infinite weave'!!! Sorry if this makes your '11 beat' a little less special. The 7 beat is impressive enough!! See if you can get 11 without moving your feet.. that would still be a 'first' at least, if you're into that kind of ego boost. A third way to 'cheat' is to abandon split time and seperate the poi. This stuff is also pretty well known, and can create some pseudo-impressive 'beat' counts.

Their use of 'spider' is more equivalent to 'chase', with 'weave' being a special spider in that it is required to be all outside the arms, no chain wrapping, shoulders in place. I just call it all 'weave' and call their special version the 'outside, no-wrap, no turn weave' when I want to get really technical about it.

-- dut


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Glad my avatar could be of service smile

As for weaves, I dont abide by the "if you turn your shoulders more than 90 degrees or so, you've just broken the 'true weave" principle. IMO if your arms are 'weaving' around one another, its a weave plain and simple regardless of how your angle/turn it. Weaving while facing wall plane just makes your planes straighter and the move easier to accomplish, it does nothing to the arm or poi movements themselves therefore its the same move. In fact, I turn 180 deg even when doing 3 beat weaves just cuz they're much prettier that way.

History shmistory. If we dont allow these 7, 9, and 11 beat weaves to carry the name "weave" because of history, that means we have to make up a new name for them which just confuses things further.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:i AM loving that av! like i said, I call all this stuff 'weave', too. the problem is that when you call something 'THE 7 beat weave' it's technically confusing, because there are multiple ways to add in those extra beats. wink you have to learn somewhere that '5 beat', '7 beat', and potentially '9 beat' follow one default progression - arm wrapping only. when you add other progressions and try to call it just 'the 11 beat weave' with no qualification on how you got extra beats (chain wrapping, body-unwrapping, etc), it's chaos. when you break out of the weave/beat structure, you're still 'spidering/weaving', and yes, there were 11 circles (assuming he counted right), but it's not 'the 11-beat weave (TM)'. I think that would involve professional contortionists...



is "unwinding" being used for anything else? these bleeping 'terms' spread like bunnies!!



-- dut

EDITED_BY: Dut (1100651409)


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