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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Election day in the US.

7 days.

Like it or not.

Storm's a comin'. Get ready for a lawsuit filled election won by Mr. Bush. Hey, don't blame me, most of you all aren't voting against him.

That's my prediction, you heard it here first.


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Yes, let's go.
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spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:Written by:
Hey, don't blame me, most of you all aren't voting against him.



Do you say that because at least half of the HOP members are foreigners, or do you think that those of us from the US on here will actually vote for him?


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think many foreigners believe that all of America voted for Mr. Bush. At least that's the way that some of them treat me when I'm abroad.

Maybe it's my resentment of the fact that I'm doing more to get Mr. Bush out of office than most people who whine and snivel about his politics. People abroad could actually affect this campaign with contributions and support, but most would rather just whine after the fact.

I won't talk too much. I'm not doing everything I possibly could to affect it. But in a week, when the world renews their hatred of my country, they should realize that they could have affected change within it. Especially in an election this close.


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Yes, let's go.
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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Too true NYC,

You've got my vote.


Love is the law.

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Posted:Written by: NYC

I think many foreigners believe that all of America voted for Mr. Bush.



Nope! We know that most of America doesn't vote! Damn hippees! wink tongue


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Dr_Molly
Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home
Member Since: 4th May 2004
Total posts: 2354
Posted:You may want more people to get up and do something to get Bush out of office, but some efforts are badly misguided.

Recently The Guardian newspaper launched a campaign to get it's readers to write to voters in Ohio and persuade them not to vote for Bush:
http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/
br>
This didn't sit so well with the recipients of the letters:
*warning - strong language*
http://www.thefridayproject.co.uk/hi/tft/media/001466.php
br>
Not quite what I imagine you had in mind. But quite honestly I am at a loss as to what I could possibly do.


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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:Naughty Guardian biggrin

By the way, did you see Charlie Brooker's article?

Original article (mirrored)
Apology


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:
My fingers are well and truly crossed, but the American electral system is so flawed and ironic. It's all too close to call but 3 facts keep my pessimism in check:

+ Most undecided voters don't make up thier mind until the drive to the polling booth. 86% of undecided voters on the day of polling usually side with the contender.
+ The polls are neck to neck, but the subset of the younger generation who only own mobile phones are not reached by the polls. The subset contains a majority of Democrats.
+ The Democratic party has hired over 10,000 lawyers!

But my lasting though about watching America elections is how disgusting some Americans can act. Whilst Operation Clark County was a possibly misguided idea the reactions from some of the right wingers in the States is sickening. Not only in reaction to the Guardian, but reading Republican, and some Democratic, articles. Outside of politics it'd be called slander and libel!

Good luck America, good luck world!


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The Real Fryed Fish
God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1489
Posted:Our Electoral system is messed up. Me, I've been a registared Democrate sense I was 18, and I'm voteing strickly Democrate this year.........but I feel NYC may be right, Bush may win again (unless this missing nuke thing gets him.) There are more people in this country that are voeting this year, but here in Florida we are alreday have ing more problems with our "new and improved" ballot counting systems, so, and this is just the conspiracy therorist in me, even if Kerry gets more votes, i think the magic election fairy will bring Bush out on top..



so for all the of voteing age HOP'ers remeber this

NO MORE BUSHIT!!! k bye


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:I thought this was immensely funny.
Hunter S Thomson on the debates

It's great being in such a liberal area, people are out on the streets every day waving Kerry signs. Honestly it's not a lawsuit I'm worried about from the Bush side, but something much worse. There's a huge sense of foreboding in this election, Hunter sums it up pretty well

Written by:
That is why George W. Bush is President of the United States, and Al Gore is not. Bush simply wanted it more, and he was willing to demolish anything that got in his way, including the U.S. Supreme Court. It is not by accident that the Bush White House (read: Dick Cheney & Halliburton Inc.) controls all three branches of our federal government today. They are powerful thugs who would far rather die than lose the election in November.



BTW Fish, Florida isn't using electronic ballot systems this year are they? I think the systems were scrapped because of security flaws(some were run off access dbs eek), just wondering eh.


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:2nd of november - america stops for an election - actually - why do you have voting on a weekday and not on a weekend?

confused

and I think it's funny that while america is voting for a new pres, australia stops to watch a horse race

not much difference really.... wink


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The Real Fryed Fish
God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2004
Total posts: 1489
Posted:Mus : i wasnt talking about the electronic ballots, i was talking about the discrimination in the fl voting system. alot of minority's have been told for one lie or another why they CANT vote, they waited till the last min to inform alot of ex-cons that thought that their rights had been restored, and by draging their feet the government maed it to were the ex-cons dont have time to get their rights back for this election! and there's alot more, more than i could put here......but what do you expect when the Pres BROTHER is your states Gov....



I'd rather be in Australia watching a hourse race


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Delete

grasshoppah
grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida
Member Since: 4th Nov 2003
Total posts: 425
Posted:plus florida is letting you vote early...and that has been causing problems..

Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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Burning Brain
Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones
Member Since: 9th Oct 2004
Total posts: 321
Posted:I'm pretty ignorant about this whole subject but ive been trying to learn about this [censored] for a while. So far ive really only learned that it appears that polititions think more about translating their actions into borderline lies for the purpose of appearance. votes basically. So, i think im just going to accept that they are both going to lie and just vote R or D. It doesnt really matter who the person is.

If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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squarefish
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
Location: the state of flux
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 403
Posted:a vote for Nader at this point is a vote for Bush
DON"T DO IT!


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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:I think it's kind of funny you expect foreigners to make campaign contributions to the democrats.

Hasn't a obscenely ridicilous amount of money already been spent on this election? both sides have laid down their cards, several times and they both demostrated they are jackasses.

I have made no contributions to hijacking the american election. I would only consider contributing money to a party which has A)Widespread acceptance so they can make changes and B) wants to put a cap on campaign spending, wants to implement instant runoff voteing and wants to implement a modern and represantative election process.

Maybe then my big brother nation can enjoy a level of democracy that's been considered normal and productive by most of the world.

But you can accuse people of only whineing about not giving millionaires more money to expand their wacked out circus all you want.


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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:Did anyone in the UK watch a programme on I think it was ITV called "Buying The White House" or something similar, a couple of days ago.

Really interesting about how much money the parties raise, and how they return the thanks by passing bills and such in favour of the companies when they get into power.
That it tends to be the person who raises the most money gets into power.

Maybe this is slightly off topic but i thought it was really interesting.


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:*if not slightly obvious*

wink

hug

It called bribery.... no?


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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:there was some guy on the radio yesterday who talked about the electronic voting thing.

recent elections for the ACT [oz's smallest state] governement was by an electrical polling thing - however the company in charge has the coding available for anyone online to read - they ask for people to find errors!

the company running the programming for the US elections wont realease the code because it is a trade secret. additionally the company owner is quoted as saying earlier this year that he would help george bush return to the whitehouse in any way he could.

slightly ominous?


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Yeah, saw the first half of it - Interesting and scary...

Speaking of Florida Voting - This makes me both very angry and very sad

Democracy my arse...


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Florida is using electronic voting - with no ability to do a recount. And in tests and primaries some polling booths didn't actually record any votes!



About the U.S. Supreme Court - about 3 of them are about to pop thier clogs - so the next president gets to decide if the Supreme court of the next decade or 2 is liberal or right-wing.



"Democracy my arse... " ditto. Sorry guys, but I've got to feel slightly sorry for you yanks. You sure you wouldn't rather take the easy option and restore the Queen as head of state?


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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:Pink special interest groups do it aswell (Teachers are a classic one)

They also block vote (meaning all agree to vote for the same party) people in.

This election will be interesting because the CIA, FBI, police and military aren't as cohesive on their support for the republicans as they almost always are.


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:You are wrong.

That is not why the election will be interesting.

wink


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Yes, let's go.
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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)
enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Member Since: 8th Jun 2004
Total posts: 456
Posted:It is not legal for non-citizen non-residents of the US to give money to US campaigns or political parties.

It IS legal for them to give to MoveOn, the ACLU, etc.

I predict a Kerry win, followed by months and months of legal wrangling by Karl Rove and an army of lawyers, who somehow won't be "trial lawyers."

I'd like to predict Karl Rove's head exploding when he finally loses for good, and Dubya doing 1000 consecutive life sentences for treason and premeditated murder, but I don't actually think those things will happen.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I don't think Kerry will even get close.

I think Tuesday is gonna be me watching a map on TV of the US turn red state by state. Like some kind of virus epidemic outbreak bad sci fi movie graphic.

And in some ways, it will be.


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Yes, let's go.
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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Why do you think he won't get close, NYC?

I've a friend in New York who says the same thing. This worries me greatly, I understand there will be the underhanded dealings and corruption, but I guess I still naievly believe there is enough Kerry support to win the election outright.

I saw that programme Pink, it was excellent... I never really considered Jon Snow as a campaigning journalist. It makes me wonder how much of the same goes on in this country....

And as if by magic... a story I put into the paper tomorrow...
Btw, in case you don't see this story tomorrow in some of the papers, it was buried deep in PA and split into two parts which went over the wire SIX hours apart.




BLAIR ACCUSED OVER GREENHOUSE GAS CLIMBDOWN
By Amanda Brown, Environment Correspondent, PA News
Factories and power plants will be able to pour more carbon dioxide the chief greenhouse gas into the atmosphere under allowances announced by the Government today.
The move, part of the EU emissions trading scheme, was unveiled by Environment Secretary Margaret Beckett amid complaints from green groups and MPs that the Prime Minister has bowed to demands from industry at the expense of the environment and the fight against climate change.
The new rules on industrial pollution permits must be submitted to the European Commission for approval.
Emissions by UK installations covered by the EU emissions trading scheme for the period 2005-7 are now estimated to be 56.1 million tonnes of CO2 or 7.6% higher than was the case in April.
The Government has been considering how to reflect this increase in emissions from the interim April projections.
Mrs Beckett said the Government will propose an amendment to the National Allocation Plan, increasing the total number of UK allowances for 2005-7 by 19.8 million allowances to 756.1 million allowances.
She said this is an increase of less than 3% from the number in the April plan.
The allocation is now 5.2% below final projections of business as usual in the UK compared to the April allocation of 0.7% below business as usual.
Mrs Beckett told a London news conference that the UK is still on course to meet its carbon dioxide reduction targets set in the Kyoto Protocol.
But she admitted that since Labour had been in power although we have seen a reduction in carbon dioxide, it has started to go up again. But that has happened all over the Northern Hemisphere.
Mrs Beckett said the Government is determined to keep on track with its domestic greenhouse gas targets. But the Government wanted to make emissions trading a success without damaging industrial competitiveness.
This decision is good news for tackling climate change, The EU emissions trading scheme is a vital part of our drive to reduce greenhouse gas emissions across Europe.
The scheme is crucial in encouraging industry to develop more energy efficient technology and adapt to a lower carbon future.
She said: The fact of the matter is that we as a Government were faced with a genuine and real dilemma. Projections suggested that if we stuck with the original formula, it would have had a devastating effect on our industry. None of us wanted to do that, but all of us wanted to get the emissions trading scheme off the ground.
Defra said the industrial non generating sectors will continue to receive an allocation based on their needs.
Overall the emissions cap will take the UK beyond its Kyoto commitment and is consistent with its domestic goal of moving towards a 20% reduction in CO2 emissions on 1990 levels by 2010.
A spokesman for Friends of the Earth said Margaret Beckett is not the villain here at all. It is Blair and the Department of Trade and Industry who have failed to put the environment ahead of industry.
Liberal Democrat environment spokesman Norman Baker condemned the introduction of more generous pollution permits.
He said This is further evidence that Tony Blair will never bite the bullet when it comes to the environment. He always takes the side of the polluters, never the side of the environment.
David Porter, chief executive of the Association of Electricity Producers, said substantial investment was needed to get carbon emissions down.
He said We must have an allocation for the generating sector which recognises what the industry emits today and allows time for transition to a lower carbon future.
Executive director of Greenpeace Stephen Tindale said: Only this month Tony Blair was telling us all how shocked he had been by the latest evidence on climate change.
Well we are shocked by this latest evidence that he lacks the will to do much about it.
Todays announcement should have been based on sound science, not interdepartmental horse trading.
Scientists tell us we need deep cuts in emissions starting now, but with this decision Blair has said to industry, you dont need to make any cuts you can emit as much over the next three years as you did over the last three years.
Blair seems to have been hoodwinked by the totally discredited argument that cutting emissions is bad for competitiveness. Cutting out the wasteful use of energy will improve our economy, not damage it.
This is just another example of how vested interests with loud voices and deep pockets can drive policy in the wrong direction.


Getting to the other side smile

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:I dunno, Kerry mopped the floor w Bush on the debates. Although this bit of Bush being more capable of keeping us secure is ludicrous, though the general public seems to believe it. I wish they would release the story of US soldiers raping women and children in Iraq. It's embarassing, but no more so than having Bush as the president for another four years.


Written by:
The whole Presidential election, in fact, was rigged and fixed from the start. It was a gigantic media event, scripted and staged for tv. It happens every four years, at an ever-increasing cost, & and 90% of the money goes towards TV commercials. Of course, nobody will give a damn except politics is starting to stink like football, Dank and Nasty. And that's a problem thats going to last alot longer than four years, folks.

Hunter S Thomson, 'Hey Rube'


Written by:
You sure you wouldn't rather take the easy option and restore the Queen as head of state?

ubblol I'm surprised no one has picked this up yet. If that was the easy option we wouldn't have expended so much effort(read lives) to get rid of an antiquated monarchy the first time. Nope, we did well to send you guys back to your island, and let us manage our own affairs. This however, is another situation altogether. Something thats not going to get any better without serious reform. We can count on florida going to Bush, why try to fool ourselves this time? To paraphrase Thomson, florida is one of the most politically corrupt states in the union. I do think Kerry has a chance, I just hope I'm not placing too much trust in the general population to come to their senses and make a change, even if the elections turn out for the worst.


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:interesting article, firepoise. I think if Bush hadn't already backed out of the kyoto commitment already, it wouldn't be this easy for Blair et al to do this.

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:I think he would have done it anyways.

The government chose to release this story at a time of the day (1pm) which means it may not be picked up by all news agencies (just after lunchtime news, too early for teatime). Bear in mind that the leading stories today were "Troops move into 'triangle of death'" (ahem), new ID cards and that murderers may not get life sentences any more. This environmental story would have fallen down the agenda.



And with more information becoming known about the US government it's making me think... this has probably been like this for years, we are only becoming aware of it now. And as I said... if it's like that in America, it's going to be the same in Britain.



It's overwhelming when you really think about the scope of policies that must have been altered for the benefit of business.

EDITED_BY: Firepoise (1098913128)


Getting to the other side smile

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:Indeed. I think money has always driven policy, it's just the companies and individuals doing the funding, as well as the administration has gotten a little more brazen about how far they'll go. And why shouldn't they? With organizations like the WTO, Euro Commission, and others gaining ground and not enough political opposition to stop them, I don't think it will get much better.

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:shrug

so no one knows why you vote on a Tuesday and not on the weekend?

shrug


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