Forums > Social Discussion > Music Copying & Sharing / Right or Wrong?

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Ok, well I tried a search, but putting "Music" into the search engine comes up with loads (and loads) or "What music do you listen to" threads. So forgive me if this has been discussed before.

What are peoples views on copying CD's and file sharing?
Most of us here would call ourselves "Music Lovers" and would also call ourselves fair, honest people. Yet when it comes down to it, copying/downloading music is both dishonest (illegal) and harms the music industry which makes the music we love.

Do morals go out the window when we can get something for free?

Now, I'm not against file sharing - I think it's a great idea, especially when you look at the idea behing the original Naptser (which i believe stoped for something link New Artists Support Program) where new, un-signed bands could get their music to thousands of people. I freely admit to having downloaded songs, occasionally whole albums - but I maintain, that even if I've downloaded an entire album, if I like it, I'll go out an buy it. Likewise, if I really enjoy a couple of songs from a band I've downloaded - I'll go out and buy their album.

Where file sharing is great is getting hold of rarities - live stuff (Fantastic live Placebo album "Cabaret of Desire" which isn't an offical album) or hard-to-find rarities/b-sides.

But what narks me, is "music lovers" who will go on-and-on about how they love this band, have all thier albums - yet they haven't ever bought one of their CDs. They'll give all kind of excuses, usually either "CDs are too expensive" or "everyone else does it".
CDs are getting more expensive because more and more people are ripping off music - if you're not buying CDs, you're making it worse.
"Everyone else does it" is a rubbish excuse smile


When it comes down to it - Music copying/sharing is theft.
None of us here (I hope) would walk into a shop and take things without paying. No-one would sneak into a local farm and raid their fields for food. So why is it considered acceptable to get your music for free?

Can't people see they're damaging the music industry?
One reason we're getting more and more shitty pop bands is they make a quick buck for the record labels - teeny boppers don't download the music, they go out and they buy the singles and albums. The "true music" fans are the one sitting at home downloading all their music - which means that "proper" bands aren't anywhere near as lucrative as pop-acts.

Thoughts?

smile


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Gayle......!
Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol !!!!!!
Member Since: 9th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2444
Posted:Yep - found that out last night. Bugger!

Gayle.....!

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Lemonkey
Lemonkey

Stalking amidst the desert, carrying an oversized scalpel...
Location: Huddersfield + Hull Uni... UK.
Member Since: 1st Aug 2005
Total posts: 1019
Posted:I don't know if it has been mentioned, but we cannot forget the "little men". Cleaners, technicians, and such, all hired by the company to keep things ticking over well. Less money for the company = less money for the fatcats (:)), less money for the artists, and sacked working-class folk. frown

Willy - is bad for your health...

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Prometheus
Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Member Since: 30th Jun 2002
Total posts: 459
Posted:If the record companies are losing money because of abusive business practices, I find it hard to blame the consumer. If a video store only carries 'Ishtar" in 17 languages, and it goes under, is it the consumers fault for not spending their money there?

Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:About not stealing from rich people, then I think that there should be a line -say 5 million after which you can download all you want from a band.

I have absolutely no tolerence for people who make millions and whine about people stealing from them. If you can't live comfortably off 5 Mill (i.e. by putting it in a offshore account and living on the interest) then you obviously don't deserve the money. If you spend 1.2 mill on a house in the Carribean then it's your own damn fault for wasting the money.

As for the distribution issues, how hard would it be for HMV or Virgin or anyone to simply have an online store where you could download the songs? Then you can't complain about the price of producing cds. Admittedly it won't be as cheap as illegal downloads, but anything's better than paying 17 for 11 tracks, or 5.99 for a *single*.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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VampyricAcid
VampyricAcid

veteran
Location: My House
Member Since: 27th Jun 2005
Total posts: 1286
Posted:i have morpheus on my computer, and it ahs only ever been used to download music, BUT saying that, roughly 90% of the music i have downloaded i have bought the CD's of (or already owned), and the other 10% i deleted cos it was rubbish tongue

also interesting thing to all those people out there who download MP3's and put them on their MP3 players, if you take it off a CD you own as a WMA file (using windows media player) you get higher quailty and a smaller file size, so crime doesnt pay!


Proudly Owned By The BMVC

Are You Sniffing My Mitten?

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Written by: Sethis

About not stealing from rich people, then I think that there should be a line -say 5 million after which you can download all you want from a band.




Without going into a seperate debate - I think this is a really lame attitude...

My reasons for this are somewhere previously in this post.


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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:So you're saying you agree with millionaires whining about declining sales figures? How about they try to live on less than $1 a day like 2 thirds of the world does?

I don't honestly see why rich people can't just make a few million, put it in the bank and *not* buy sports cars, 8 houses and develope a coke habit. I mean, OK maybe they deserve to enjoy their money that they put effort into making, but most of them are just stupid with it. Who, when you get right down to it, actually *needs* an 8 bedroom boat? What's the point? Why have more than one car? Why have more than *at the most* two houses? Why not give some of the money to other people?


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Spiderbaby
Spiderbaby

c",

Member Since: 31st Mar 2005
Total posts: 199
Posted:I always download music and am not ready to start feeling guilty.
In fact im downloading music right now and nobody can stop me ubblol


I know a member of a band who are close to being signed by a record company but he downloads music. I was talking about it to him one day. He couldnt care less if people download music.


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FireByNite
FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 8th Dec 2004
Total posts: 349
Posted:When I first started with my file sharing programme, I was downloading all the cd's I have bought over the years that some d**khead had stolen or my ex had smashed. One having being bought 3 times over 5 years! I've seen the "taping" debate * now seeing the downloading debate. The recording cd's onto tape never ruined the music industry, the downloading won't either.
I do download stuff that I have heard off the radio and like & I won't stop doing that. I have put heaps of money into the music industryhaving started buying records (anyone remember them?) and tapes when I was 7, then older going to gigs, Big Day Out (for all you downunders) & still go to see live bands (when I can afford it) I also use the filesharing programme to find different trance/techno music, download a couple of tracks from 1 artist, if I like, I go buy the album (if I can find it in the shops!) I have a high speed connection so is easy for me.
The people I don't agree with are these types that download a bunch of albums, then sell them to friends for half the cost of the CD! They are the ones who are hurting the bands IMHO. LONG LIVE MUSIC cool


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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Gayle......!
Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol !!!!!!
Member Since: 9th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2444
Posted:Well i completely changed my mind last night over this file sharing/downloading [censored].

I've decided to sod the paying sites and download all my music for free and i'll explain why:

As i said in my post above - i spent 3/4 hours the night before last trying to get itunes working properly on a friends P.C. by 10pm at night i gave up, said i would look at other options and come back the next night and try something else. Spent most of the day researching downloading options on the internet and after looking at the big noise music site and their policies - decided on that.

Spent 4 hours last night round the friends house trying to get this to work so her foster daughter could spend her pocket money downloading tunes.

It stole money from me and didn't download the songs and even after the songs were downloaded they wouldn't play on my mp3 player or hers.

So, we wasted 7 of her pocket money trying to sort this out and 8 hours of my time.

By 10pm - i was well pissed off so i said sod it. We'll try one that doesn't charge. Installed in 10 mins and first track downloaded and played through the mp3 player within 20 mins.

I tried to give money to the artists by using an official charts contributor, TWICE and couldn't do it with either. You would think they would make it easier to use the legel sites rather than the illegal ones, but no. So, hand ups i tried my best to do it the correct way but there is only so much effort i'm willing to make.

There is absolutely no incentive to download tunes "properly" as it's harder, more time consuming, and a right old pain in the ass!


*ducks and hides so Durbs doesn't lecture her*


Gayle.....!

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by: Vampyricacid
also interesting thing to all those people out there who download MP3's and put them on their MP3 players, if you take it off a CD you own as a WMA file (using windows media player) you get higher quailty and a smaller file size, so crime doesnt pay!





ya wot?



If you really beleive wma is better, which most don't, you can always just download an mp3 and convert it in a few seconds with a program link bink and smacker. Crime pays smile



Written by: Sethis
I don't honestly see why rich people can't just make a few million, put it in the bank and *not* buy sports cars, 8 houses and develope a coke habit. I mean, OK maybe they deserve to enjoy their money that they put effort into making, but most of them are just stupid with it. Who, when you get right down to it, actually *needs* an 8 bedroom boat? What's the point? Why have more than one car? Why have more than *at the most* two houses? Why not give some of the money to other people?





Because we arn't communisists. Lots of people waste money, including those who don't have it. One of my postgrad mates at uni was formally a scottish social worker before studying his law masters and who could testify that families with no money for heating, clothing or a proper diet but instead huddling around the plasma screen they bought on credit at night isn't unheard of. Are you saying that anyone who makes stupid purchases should have that money taken off them and given to more needy people? Should people not be able to buy what they want with money they've earnt?



Using the excuse that you think someone has enough already isn't excuse for stealing from them, that logic is just whacked. I remember seeing at the carnival against capitalism in 1999 which I attended in London a small corner shop being pillaged by yobs sharing out all the products to passers by in the street. That's crime, they may have thought they were robin hood, but they are criminals.


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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by: Gayle....!
*ducks and hides so Durbs doesn't lecture her*



You would not beleive the amount of paperwork, time and hassle it takes to buy a car, tax it and insure it. Stealing them and printing a false numberplate is far easier.


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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: flid


Because we arn't communists.





Maybe we should be. The only reason why it collapsed was because the capitalist countries refused to trade with them. Plus the fact that the leaders were corrupt. Communism would work if you could find some people who weren't actually going to be corrupted.

Written by: flid


Lots of people waste money, including those who don't have it. One of my postgrad mates at uni was formally a scottish social worker before studying his law masters and who could testify that families with no money for heating, clothing or a proper diet but instead huddling around the plasma screen they bought on credit at night isn't unheard of. Are you saying that anyone who makes stupid purchases should have that money taken off them and given to more needy people? Should people not be able to buy what they want with money they've earnt?





If people think that TV is more important than clothing, heating or food, then sorry, but I can't think of a reason why you shouldn't take their money off them, and give it to a sub-sahara african village, where the cost of the TV could pay for about 60 childrens lives for 5 years. People that stupid don't deserve TV. Give them the cost of the TV back and tell them to use it on food/clothing.

Darwinism, the people too stupid to survive, don't. And don't give me that rubbish about us being civilised. If we were civilised then we'd actually enforce all of this equality Bulls*it by helping third world countries to get onto our level with their economies.

Written by: flid

Using the excuse that you think someone has enough already isn't excuse for stealing from them, that logic is just whacked.



It's not that they have enough, it is that they have *more* than enough. The top 8 richest men in the world could wipe out most of the poverty in the world, but they don't.

Oh, and back on topic, I don't download music and the odds are that I won't. Because I can't be bothered to get caught by the police. And most of the download sites are full of spyware. And I just nick my sister's CDs anyway. ubblol


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:I've made a new thread for the topic myself and sethis have strewn onto smile

http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/1


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kiteman
Flying high!
Location: At the beach.
Member Since: 5th Jul 2004
Total posts: 245
Posted:Just to change the subject only slightly

Is downloading mix sessons from the radio and sharing them infringing any copyright.


If everything seems under control, your not going fast enough!

It's not the size of the wave, it's the length of the ride!

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_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:i admit i download everything (music, games, programs etc.)
but look, as far as music goes the only artists ill pay for their CDs are method man, redman, wu tang clan and busta rhymes. other artists have one song on their album i like, and im not paying 20$ for one song.
this whole thing reminded me of something that happened a while ago in israel, record labels were sueing the 2 biggest filesharing sites in israel, even though both removed the music albums from their sites a while before. anyway, alot of artists came to help those sites because the record companies are screwing them over from their earnings. alot of ppl said that they would buy music if u had a legal way of sharing music, lets say i want to download one song from an artist, so i pay for that song only, and then i can download it, instead of having to pay for a whole CD, and that way it costs less to produce the music (no need to make CDs) and the music costs less.


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:You wouldn't steal a car!
You wouldn't steal a handbag,
you wouldn't steal a tv,
you wouldn't steal a DVD...

Well actually if I could take a car home, copy it and make a replica more perfect than the original (cos it has scratches on it) and then take it back to the owner who has no hard feelings. Then I would steal it. Actually. And I wouldn't care about the highly paid car designer who I'm not paying royalties to. If he was a struggling artiste, then I might care.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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poig
poig

marmite and nutella sandwich
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Member Since: 19th Jun 2006
Total posts: 1590
Posted:i use limewire

THE hop Pyro.
(with parents)
Unowned

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:music is so like a prostitute, you're willing to pay for it and afterwards you still want more. wink

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Groovy_Dream
Groovy_Dream

addict

Member Since: 26th May 2005
Total posts: 449
Posted:This problem has a perfect solution that would work for everyone.



brace yourself for some economics.....



With the dawn of broadband and computers, distribution of music is EASY AND CHEAP. People can store thousands of downloaded mp3's without costing the economy practially anything.



Basically this means that the supply curve for music has shifted dramatically to the right, meaning that equilibrium between demand and supply should give a FAR greater quantity for a lesser price. Profits would STILL BE MAINTAINED, but people would have more music.



For some idiotic reason that I can't understand, the market hasn't reacted like it should have, and CD's are still the main (wasteful and inefficient) trade.



/economics





So basically what i'm saying is that websites like http://music.msn.com
SHOULD be selling songs for only, say 5 cents each, because so many people would buy them that the artists would still get their income, and everyone gets a MASSIVE music collection. Everyone wins.



Sure, bandwidth would be a bit of a hassle, but that can easily be solved with p2p-bitorrent type code. Noone would bother with stealing mp3s as they do now, because the (funded) websites would be far more reliable, and the mp3s would be guaranteed to be high quality. As it is, it can be really hard to find that mp3 you're after on p2p, especially at high quality. Not to mention the satisfaction of knowing that you're actually supporting the artists without being ripped off.



Because I know that this could work but isn't happening (most likely out of corporate greed), i have no problem with stealing mp3s.


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Prometheus
Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Member Since: 30th Jun 2002
Total posts: 459
Posted:That's great logic, until you're handed a summons by the record company. Not being accusatory, 'cause I'm guilty, too, but just saying. There's a difference between disagreeing with a law and violating it.

Out of curiosity, what are the chances these days of being reprimanded for "stealing" downloaded music? How likely is it that an occasional downloader will be tapped for prosecution vs. someone who's downloading 5 albums a day? If you're not sharing, only downloading, are you less liable to be singled out?


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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