Forums > Help! > Were there fire performers in the Renaissance era
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2 posts
Location: AZ
2 posts
Location: AZ
Posted:
My friends and I attend an event every year that has a Renaissance era theme and this year they have banned fire arts.
One of the reasons is because "there is no historical significance to its presence". Does anybody out there know of any fire art that traces back to then?
I know POI and staff (not on fire) can be traced far back but what about on fire??
Please help us overturn their decision by finding a link to Fire Arts in history
Thank you
My friends and I attend an event every year that has a Renaissance era theme and this year they have banned fire arts.
One of the reasons is because "there is no historical significance to its presence". Does anybody out there know of any fire art that traces back to then? I know POI and staff (not on fire) can be traced far back but what about on fire??
Please help us overturn their decision by finding a link to Fire Arts in history
Thank you
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
About all the help I can give is in this link...
Hope you find something that helps! If not just have some fire anyway, just away from the festival. Just because it's unofficial doesn't make it less important!
About all the help I can give is in this link...
Hope you find something that helps! If not just have some fire anyway, just away from the festival. Just because it's unofficial doesn't make it less important!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
Flaming Lesbian
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted:
in that silly `Vanity Fair` movie, there's a chick swinging fire poi in the previews, but that dosen't prove anything.
you could no doubt get away with juggling fire clubs at the very least
in that silly `Vanity Fair` movie, there's a chick swinging fire poi in the previews, but that dosen't prove anything.
you could no doubt get away with juggling fire clubs at the very least
Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.
BRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
I think you should talk with our favourite mod Pele. She's heavily involved in all things ren fest and is a highly respected performer, fire and non-fire.... Pele!!! Where are yoouuuu!?
I think you should talk with our favourite mod Pele. She's heavily involved in all things ren fest and is a highly respected performer, fire and non-fire.... Pele!!! Where are yoouuuu!?
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BRONZE Member
newbie
24 posts
Location: Sweden
newbie
24 posts
Location: Sweden
Posted:
Although my knowledge in Renaissence era is not to good but if you mean purely fire arts like fire eating, breath fire etc im quite sure it has been practice however I dont think that there did existed pois through the medieevil and the Renaissence.
Basically I think that all fire arts raise the atmosphere, im a medieevil fan so I attend on a lot of events and so far ppl hasent banned me doing a little show with my pois since it do looks nice especially this time of the year when the autum is closing and it is igetting cold outside. Then again we should let an experts in Reinassance speak.
//Wai
Although my knowledge in Renaissence era is not to good but if you mean purely fire arts like fire eating, breath fire etc im quite sure it has been practice however I dont think that there did existed pois through the medieevil and the Renaissence.
Basically I think that all fire arts raise the atmosphere, im a medieevil fan so I attend on a lot of events and so far ppl hasent banned me doing a little show with my pois since it do looks nice especially this time of the year when the autum is closing and it is igetting cold outside. Then again we should let an experts in Reinassance speak
.//Wai
BRONZE Member
Senator by day, Sith Lord by night.
128 posts
Location: Suffolk, New York, USA
Senator by day, Sith Lord by night.
128 posts
Location: Suffolk, New York, USA
Posted:
Friend of mine looked into this, wish I could say with more authority but the general outcome was that europe did not do the fire performing thang. It was jus too potentially dangerous and most of the toys we have now were not extant in that area at the time covered by most rennesence fests/sca type communities. They also did not have the fuels, wickings, water availability, or fire supression materials we have today.
Pyrotechnics were available in china and somthing might be workable off of that, but other then that I think anyone looking to document fire performance is SOL. Someone I know was saying somthing recently about fire staff being possibly documentable to some islamic cultures, but I havent seen any evidence yet.
Friend of mine looked into this, wish I could say with more authority but the general outcome was that europe did not do the fire performing thang. It was jus too potentially dangerous and most of the toys we have now were not extant in that area at the time covered by most rennesence fests/sca type communities. They also did not have the fuels, wickings, water availability, or fire supression materials we have today.
Pyrotechnics were available in china and somthing might be workable off of that, but other then that I think anyone looking to document fire performance is SOL. Someone I know was saying somthing recently about fire staff being possibly documentable to some islamic cultures, but I havent seen any evidence yet.
"If the human brain were simple enough for us to understand, we would be too simple to understand it"
-Emerson M Pugh
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
This is something I've wondered about- in most films on a medieval theme there's generally a scene with a fire juggler in the background, but, being realistic, would that be likely in reality?
Obviously kevlar wicking wasn't available, but cloth could have been used for wicks.
I think the main problem would be suitable fuel. Presumably the only available stuff would be the animal fat and wax?
Having said that, they had those burning stick things for providing light, and there were jugglers, so it would be pretty inevitable for them to try juggling three of them.
----------------
Apparently the ancient Chinese got round the lack of kevlar wick by using meteors with a open bowl at each end, full of oil with a lamp wick at the centre.
Using the principle of centrifugal force to keep the oil from spilling, in the same way that our modern water meteors work.
---------------
Perhaps the fair organisers have other reasons for not wanting people doing fire stuff, and are using the lack of historical evidence as a convenient excuse.
We live in times where getting into fire is becoming very popular, and a lot of the people turning up at events and lighting up are not particularly professional, or safe.
In conjunction with the legal action culture that is prevelant now, I can imagine that some organisers are wanting to cut down on some of these activities, because of worries about accidents.
This is something I've wondered about- in most films on a medieval theme there's generally a scene with a fire juggler in the background, but, being realistic, would that be likely in reality?
Obviously kevlar wicking wasn't available, but cloth could have been used for wicks.
I think the main problem would be suitable fuel. Presumably the only available stuff would be the animal fat and wax?
Having said that, they had those burning stick things for providing light, and there were jugglers, so it would be pretty inevitable for them to try juggling three of them.
----------------
Apparently the ancient Chinese got round the lack of kevlar wick by using meteors with a open bowl at each end, full of oil with a lamp wick at the centre.
Using the principle of centrifugal force to keep the oil from spilling, in the same way that our modern water meteors work.
---------------
Perhaps the fair organisers have other reasons for not wanting people doing fire stuff, and are using the lack of historical evidence as a convenient excuse.
We live in times where getting into fire is becoming very popular, and a lot of the people turning up at events and lighting up are not particularly professional, or safe.
In conjunction with the legal action culture that is prevelant now, I can imagine that some organisers are wanting to cut down on some of these activities, because of worries about accidents.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Jeez... those ancient chinese meteors must have taken some serious slowing down if you wanted to finish before the fuel burnt away!
Jeez... those ancient chinese meteors must have taken some serious slowing down if you wanted to finish before the fuel burnt away!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Well I can't speak for fire bowl meteors, never having used them.
But I have a fair bit of experience with water meteors which use the same principle (a cup of water on each end, with the water kept in purely by the centrifugal force of spinning).
And stopping, with a little practice, is surprisingly straightforward.
I've always resisted splitting them into poi, as it seemed a bit of a cop out, but recently realised that, with care, it's possible to do release/catch moves with water poi, and spent a bit of time on that.
With both water meteors and water poi, getting very proficient with stalls will help when it comes to stopping them without spillage.
(As a quick safety note it's worth mentioning that cups of water are heavy- there's no reason why the cups have to be full, especially if you're new to this- much better to start with just a bit in the bottom till you're used to it)
Well I can't speak for fire bowl meteors, never having used them.
But I have a fair bit of experience with water meteors which use the same principle (a cup of water on each end, with the water kept in purely by the centrifugal force of spinning).
And stopping, with a little practice, is surprisingly straightforward.
I've always resisted splitting them into poi, as it seemed a bit of a cop out, but recently realised that, with care, it's possible to do release/catch moves with water poi, and spent a bit of time on that.
With both water meteors and water poi, getting very proficient with stalls will help when it comes to stopping them without spillage.
(As a quick safety note it's worth mentioning that cups of water are heavy- there's no reason why the cups have to be full, especially if you're new to this- much better to start with just a bit in the bottom till you're used to it)
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Since we're on the topic of bowl meteors, might wanna check this vid out...
https://www.firesouls.de/files/board_files/cds-varekai-met.avi
Since we're on the topic of bowl meteors, might wanna check this vid out...
https://www.firesouls.de/files/board_files/cds-varekai-met.avi
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
Flaming Lesbian
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted:
that video needs to be retitled `crazy asian kids with meteors.avi`
holy crap, they put one wheel dave to shame (no offense, but seriously, those are the best throws i've ever seen with meteors)
and as i write this, i'm trying to figure out how this relates to the italian renaissance ;]
that video needs to be retitled `crazy asian kids with meteors.avi`
holy crap, they put one wheel dave to shame (no offense, but seriously, those are the best throws i've ever seen with meteors)
and as i write this, i'm trying to figure out how this relates to the italian renaissance ;]
Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I read somewhere that it took seven years of practice before a person was permitted to spin Chinese fire meteors.
I’m not sure about the fire juggling, but fire arrows were probably popular.
Pitch comes to mind as fuel that could have been used in those times. Pitch being any of various natural bitumens, such as mineral pitch or asphalt, or the resin derived from the sap of various coniferous trees, as the pines.
I read somewhere that it took seven years of practice before a person was permitted to spin Chinese fire meteors.
I’m not sure about the fire juggling, but fire arrows were probably popular.
Pitch comes to mind as fuel that could have been used in those times. Pitch being any of various natural bitumens, such as mineral pitch or asphalt, or the resin derived from the sap of various coniferous trees, as the pines.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
newbie
24 posts
Location: Sweden
newbie
24 posts
Location: Sweden
Posted:
OMG that was awesome, they throw it so high and when they kicked the meteors up was so cool.....awesome skills! I wonder how that would look with fire .....nasty ...
I think it was at least possible to have some fire arts during that time somewhere in the world. I mean firejuggling should be possible and of course those fire meteors. If some1 have a video on fire meteors I sure wanna dl it.
//Wai
OMG that was awesome, they throw it so high and when they kicked the meteors up was so cool
.....awesome skills! I wonder how that would look with fire .....nasty ...I think it was at least possible to have some fire arts during that time somewhere in the world. I mean firejuggling should be possible and of course those fire meteors. If some1 have a video on fire meteors I sure wanna dl it
.//Wai
BRONZE Member
The GF of HoP
492 posts
Location: Somerset, England
The GF of HoP
492 posts
Location: Somerset, England
Posted:
I second that request for fire meteor videos.
I second that request for fire meteor videos.
fire leads to creation
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