• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:What do you concider a calculated risk when you perform?
I noticed the line for me seems to be widening as I become more proficient, and as I grow bored with what I am used to doing. I will stress that I *****NEVER***** do anything that puts my audience, venue or crew at risk however. I still follow all of the safety guidelines set by either myself or the law.
So let me give you two examples, I did 4 shows on the 4th of July. In the 3rd show I did a buzzsaw and brought it so close to my face that the heat singed my eyelashes on my left eye almost down to the skin and I thought I had gotten fuel in my eye, though it was actually just hurt from heat exposure. In the 4th show I had to sidestep a fire breath as it flared out and then caught in the wind to come back at me. The audience didn't notice that one, but I did. I could control the first one, but not the second. Still I walked away wondering about the risks I take and how I push that line to stay on top of my game.

Pushing limits. Extending the line where the risks turn from calculated to uncontrolled.
Where is that line for you? I am still trying to figure it out for myself as it changes through the years and as I perform more and more.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete Topic

master sodium


member
Location: carson city, nevada

Total posts: 536
Posted:I the only line I've found is where my skill stops. well, sometimes anyway. I have burnt my nose hair from pulling my poi between my arms, and right next to my face countless times, without shortening them (I already use short enough poi to do that, but not short enough for a buzzsaw). I burn myself multiple times doing a wrap that I stall on bare skin, but I know I'm gonna get burnt and do it anyway, just to please the crowd (note: dont try this, you need to do it just right to keep it only at a second degree burn, PM me if you really need to know how). but all of these things I know how to do really well, and thats why I do them. I never try new moves with fire (usually), and still wont firebreathe because I dont feel ready. but thats just me.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:To keep an audience you must push the limits. This is true with any preformance from the WWF to pro sports to poi. Though we have the advantage of not every sees fire rushing aroud peoples bodies and heads.

I have tried summersaults while spinning fire. Body transfers to light the poi, and a few other things like buzz saws to beef up my trick repitwa (sp).

The question is Pele, where does your skill end and pure luck begin? You must know your limits and not be afraid to push them but you must remember to respect them.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Hmm..I'm going to get into trouble here so I'll just take off my moderators cap (puts it down behind him).

quote: To keep an audience you must push the limits. This is true with any performance from the WWF to pro sports to poi. Though we have the advantage of not every sees fire rushing around peoples bodies and heads.
Rubbish! Absolute rubbish! (Sorry Raymund). To keep an audience you need to entertain them, it's got nothing to do with pushing the limits.

almost everyone in the crowd has no idea what is pushing the limit and what isn't, so how can pushing the limit's keep the crowd?

Particularly in juggling and fire circles, performers often forget that just because they know what is difficult, everyone else knows too. THIS SIMPLY ISN'T the case.

I'm sorry if I sound aggressive about this, but I am seeing more and more examples of buskers and hobbyists who endanger themselves, the public and property unnecessarily, by doing stupid and dangerous things they can't do properly because they feel this will impress the crowd.

There's nothing that angers me more than someone doing something dangerous when there is no reason for them to do it at all...

Thanks for listening to my rant, now to answer the actual question.

Pushing the limit for me is building that area of rapport with an audience or individual audience member where you can say rude or shocking things that would have been impossible at the beginning of the show.

Done well, it makes you stay in their mind forever, done badly, it draws complaints to the authorities


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Delete

arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:i agree with you, pele, i never put my audience in any kind of danger. my own limits in danger are relative. for example i pretty much know that i'm gonna burn off half the body/facial hair i got in a show, and i'm gonna get burned by my wicks too. as an ex welder/blacksmith measly firedancing burns don't really bother me. my eyelashes/ arm hair are a sad sad sight. i do wraps everywhere, even neck wraps. and once i've briefly caught my face on fire as a newbie (in the wind). none of it scares, tho, as i have a friendly realtionship with fire and we love each other. she a frisky one, hoooboy! so calculated risks for me aren't even whether or not i will burn myself. skin heals.
i guess risks for me are more about who you do fire with. there are a lot of people that think they know what they are doing, but are being dangerous. i usu. don't spin with someone unless i know they are safe in my strict terms. example- i spontaneously did fire with some folks a few days ago where i was the only person watching their fuel station (they had it set up in the middle of everything, and i was concerned), and someone that was smoking came and sat down right next to the fuel. as soon as i noticed i asked her to move. now if i wasn't paying attention, who knows what would have happened! that, for me, is the biggest risk- that newer people make naive decisions.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Well, all those things I do, MasterNa, thanks though...same thing with you Ray. That is part of my problem...somersaults and bare wraps have been part of my repetoire ( ) for years (for more variations on rolls check out the thread Ground Rolling, Ray....there are a few ideas in there). I don't mean to sound like I can do anything...I can not. And there are moves that I do work very hard on to get and they still challenge me.
However, I do a buzzsaw nearly every show because it gets people going, but because of MY boredom (I also firebreath through the buzzsaw!) and maybe it is this comfort with it that I brought it so close to test how far I could go? A subconcious immortality complex? I know the fire will burn me. I have a few from some recent shows...for the first time in 3 years! I completely respect the fire and understand it's power in my mind. Maybe my heart wants more? I am expressing this sheerly from the personal perspective rather than the audience. I don't know. With the audience I can add a new tool and they are fully happy. It's strange, I have alot of passion for what I do, for my medium of choice but feel like there is something missing....hmmmm.....
Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

master sodium


member
Location: carson city, nevada

Total posts: 536
Posted:wraps on bare skin are one thing, but I was referring to wrapping the poi, stopping it on the arm, and keeping it there for 3-5 seconds, always resulting in a second degree burn (the last time I held it too long and got a third degree though). I've never met anyone willing to do that. in fact I should probably stop before I truly hurt myself.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:I am sorry I was very vauge in what I meant. If you have someone who has seen the show before. It is not as exciting as the first time? They want to see something new.

Any hoo I know grammer wise my post would have gotten a big fat F but then agian I aint in no skool no mo


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I will say that at my 4th show I had some friends who are World Fusion Dancers (a form of belly dance) and they were yelling and whooping and really responding past the dropped jaw syndrome, and that...pardon the pun... fueled me into going longer, harder and faster. I agree that the interaction with the audience is important, and for them, a new spinning move will primarily go un-noticed, unlike a new toy.
Charles and Arashi...where then is too far for you? What line, outside of safety, will you not cross?
Arashi, I have been in those situations before..it is a sad, sad thing indeed.

Master Na, I can say I wouldn't do that. From a personal standpoint, my wraps stall on my skin anyway, and there is no need to tempt fate to burn me when trailing, pooling and wrapping seem to do me just fine!
Ray, thanks. I understand better now! That is why I add in new toys or things that are visably new in a routine...full out body moves, blows in the middle, etc.....I hope to keep them on thier toes as much as they keep me on mine. That and lets face it, if you keep adding new things...they keep hiring you back! Although, I have run into people who have seen me perform many times on poi and they still watch just as enthusiastically as the first time. I think they are fire groupies though!

What do you do with your "common toys" to push your own limits without losing you grip on safety?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

rex


rex

member
Location: Holiday, FL, USA

Total posts: 263
Posted:quote: (I also firebreath through the buzzsaw!) -Pele whoa.. isn't that a lil warm on the hands?

i'm gonna become the next Pele fire groupie..

it was just a joke!! don't make PWB beat meh up


Delete

SmokyDavy
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 394
Posted:Okay, some people aren't as daring as others (breaths fire thru a buzz saw?!? thats SO cool!).

I was spinning doubles at a party last friday, my cell phone rang and one of the 2 staffs went out.. I put down the dead staff and continued spinning while talking on my cell phone. Didn't stay talking on the phone for long, but it was still funny for a while.


Delete

arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:mmmm personal risks? well i tend to be pretty safety conscious when explosions are concerned. i don't mess with that stuff too much, like flamethrowers and stuff. but if i had one that might be a different matter, cause then i'd study them. it can't be much worse than gas welding. as i think about it i suppose i do some crazy stuff, but not usually with fire, as it's so easy to hurt someone else with it. more in the other stuff, like hanging off of cars and stuff or jumping from high things or going fast, where i can only hurt myself. i suppose i try to live as balls out as i can responsibly. i never drink and drive. so i take risks only where i am the one to suffer the consequences.
what i think the real issue is: how afraid of death are we? do we ever tease the envelope, and ride that rush? or do we reside in its shadow, shining against it? or do we run from life, trying to hide from death?


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

TwirlyVic


TwirlyVic

northern monkey


Total posts: 235
Posted:i have a really bad habit of doing my dangerous tricks only for my friends, people who i know will appreciate it. They know how many hours a day i put into my spinning and the screaming and whooping i recieve afterwards is amazing. i prefer treating my friends to things like this, rather than scabby kids who just slag you off.

however, i have spun within an inch of my life (as in "hallo if i miss there goes my scalp!)for strangers because they were being annoying and doing irritating things like yawning. They were drunk and i know i shouldnt have risen to their ignorance but i did.

Soon shut them up!!! mehehehe!

but then again, never danger for an audience. I've only performed to people i dont know at all, once. Other times i know at least one person in the aud...

but when i started (bear in mind this was only five months ago!)i did this STUPID this, set myself on fire but continued spinning cos i could see my reflection and it looked cool ! HOW DUMB!

Torched my favourite dress (not a floaty one dont worry i'm not that dense)and had really tender skin on my spine for ages

so thats a warning for pushing limits of a total beginner!

vic xx


ex-hop-aholic, now inconsistent lurker...

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Personally I think fire for the first time is pushing the limits for a beginer!

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

DarkFairyQueen


member
Location: The Underworld

Total posts: 557
Posted:This is probably a very nieve question, but whats a buzz saw?

Az abouve, So below...

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:poi spinning verticaly on the inside of your extended arms I can do it with some prety long chains because of me long arms hehe.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:However the spin has to be in split time on the inside Ray. Or else you are doing the nose breaker!

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Seen as how I do my own veriation of everything I will give it my own name!! The nose saw.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

master sodium


member
Location: carson city, nevada

Total posts: 536
Posted:so whats it called if you do a nosebreaker horizontally through your arms? same thing with a buzzsaw?

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

Delete

Nyx


enthusiast
Location: NorCal

Total posts: 385
Posted:quote:as i think about it i suppose i do some crazy stuff, but not usually with fire, as it's so easy to hurt someone else with it. more in the other stuff, like hanging off of cars and stuff or jumping from high things or going fast, where i can only hurt myself. i suppose i try to live as balls out as i can responsibly.IMHO you seem to have the point here....i mean, i know there is risk involved in spinning fire but i can think of many, many things i've done in the name of adrenaline rush that were way more dangerous in the sense that, you screw up, you die. Of course when spinning you should be responsible, just like not drinking and driving, etc. But pushing the envelope is (or should be) a personal decision based on how much risk you want to put yourself in, not how much risk you put other people at based on your needs. Thumbing your nose at personal endangerment or even death is, for some, what makes you feel really alive!

On a slightly different note, isn't it funny how we're talking about how far we push the envelope when most people probably think that just the fact of swinging fire around our bodies goes beyond the envelope! lol! co-worker: "what are you, nuts?!" me: "what do you mean?" mwahahahaha

Pele: fire breathing through a buzz-saw?! Cool! *making a note on the list of things i want to learn*


"Dancing can reveal all the mystery that music conceals"

~Charles Baudelaire

Delete


Similar Topics

Using the keywords [calculated risk*] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > risk assesment [12 replies]
2. Forums > Calculated Risks [19 replies]
3. Forums > Global Risk Assessment [5 replies]
4. Forums > Area-specific Fire Performance Risk Assessment [3 replies]
5. Forums > Spilled Fuel Risks [4 replies]

     Show more..