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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:Hello beautiful people

i am not sure where this belong... having not been online for soooo long smile
But i am sure it will be moved into the proper forum if I made a mistake smile

My life has been so rich and good and full of lessons recently that i wanted to share with you all thoughts i have had recently re:couples.

I could write a whole chapter about it ... and i probably will too later wink but for now I would like to borrow the words of one of my favourite poets, Khalil gibran... the poem is in French with a poor translation by yours truly... but i am sure you will get the idea smile

I would love to hear your feeligns on it, on couples and on aloneness or fusion within a couple
thank you

with love and tenderness
shine on
Cass

you were born together and together you will be forever
you will be together when the white wings of death will end your days
yes, together you will be even in the silent memory of god

but in your union let there be spaces
Allow the winds of heaven to dance between you

love each other but do not make love a chain
let it be a moving sea between the two shores of your souls

let one fill the glass of the other but do not drink of the same glass
give each other of your bread but do not eat one same bread
sing and dance together and be happy but let each of you be alone

give each other your heart but do not let any of you trap the other
for only the hand of life can contain your hearts

and stay together yet not too close
for the pillars of the temple need to be at a distance
and the oak and pine tree cannot grow in each other s shadow


Vous futes nes ensemble et ensemble vous serez a jamais
vous serez ensemble quand les blanches ailes de la mort auront brise vos jours
Oui, ensemble vous serez, meme dans la memoire silencieuse de Dieu
Mais que dans votre union il y ait des espaces
et laissez entre vous danser le vent des cieux
Aimez vous l un l autre mais ne faites pas de l amour une chaine
qu il soit plutot une mer mouvante entre les rivages de vos ames
que l un remplisse a l autre sa coupe, mais ne buvez pas de la meme coupe
donnez vous l un a l autre de votre pain mais ne mangez pas d un meme pain
chantez et dansez ensemble et soyez joyeux mais que chancun de vous soit seul
telles les cords d un luth, bien qu isolees vibrent d une meme musique
donnez vous vos coeurs mais sans que l un n enferme celui de l autre
car seule la main de la vie peut contenir vos coeurs
et tenez vous ensemble , pas trop pres cependant l un de l autre:
car les pilliers du temple se tiennent a distance,
le chene et le cypres ne poussent pas a l ombre l un de l autre


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Cassandra,

I hope this is considered appropriate, and is not viewed as a criticism of Khalil Gibran.

There is a lot of wisdom in Khalil Gibrans words. Like the oak and pine tree cannot grow in each others shadow. But, I find the poem a bit sentimental when it comes to considering how you feel about someone in the long term, or as Khalil Gibran puts it you will be together when the white wings of death will end your days.

I suppose, I have a more earthier view of relationships, and especially like When You Are Old and Grey by WB Yeats because real love means you have to understand the sorrows of your (lovers) changing face, if you understand my point.

When You Are Old and Grey by WB Yeats

When you are old and grey and full of sleep,
And nodding by the fire, take down this book,
And slowly read, and dream of the soft look
Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;

How many loved your moments of glad grace,
And loved your beauty with love false or true,
But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you,
And loved the sorrows of your changing face;

And bending down beside the glowing bars,
Murmur, a little sadly, how Love fled
And paced upon the mountains overhead
And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.

Cheers smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Zim
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Zim

Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 284
Posted:that quote... "Where history comes from" ... that's from Eddie Izzard biggrin

out here in cali NOONE has heard of Izzard.

go you!


Clean for 6 months and counting... ah yeah, that's nice.

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:thanks for sharing your heart afetr being away for so long Cass.... I love you

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Hey Cass hun,

hug

Have been doing some thinking of my own just recently. Something that is changing and growing in my life is really making me re-assess the way I think about relationships, and interactions between people.

One of the first lessons I am learning, and not an easy one, is not to waste the joys of today in worry about what will happen tomorrow. So easier said than done. It requires you to quell the inner nagging voices. It requires you to put aside the possibility that tomorrow this may end, and your lover be somewhere else. Or that they may be with another. It requires you to realise that what you hold in your hands today is far more important than the ifs and buts of tomorrow.

I am learning not to sabotage today. To look at the reasons why it is working, rather than seek at the reasons why it may not.

I am learning to seek peace, not drama.

I am learning that the foundation of this all is a choice to be here. I could choose to walk away this minute. I could find another. I could be alone. and I would be happy. But I choose to stay. And I am happy.

Where there is no fear (of being alone, or of being hurt) there is no risk. And the choice to stay becomes about the person you are with, rather than scary consequences.

I can't say I learn these things with ease. I don't find it easy to put aside the little voices of fear, hurt and jealousy. They have been with me a long time, and perhaps they will never leave completely. But I can answer them positively with strength, confidence and intelligence. I can look for reason in my emotions, see my own scars and heal them.

I feel that I am meandering, I haven't posted such a long post here in a while. hug Thank you for allowing me a chance to find words for a realisation that has been developing.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Everyone always takes different things from art but I don't really see too much soppyness here, rather good advice. Khalil's emphasising the importance of not smothering each other and your love. About living your own life and giving each other space.

About not continually being in each other's pockets. In many cases absense does make the heart grow fonder and I can relate to this particularly because I haven't seen my girlfriend in 2 months (3 weeks left now ubblove )

Relationships don't require constant obsession, nuturing or attention when love, trust and commmunication are at play.

Some times people in relationships, myself included can invest everything in that relationship and it can not only bring on premature end to the relationship but can leave people devastated... ooooops


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:hello my gorgeous cass!

that was beautiful!

many hugz & snugglez for you!
hug2 hug2 hug2

ill probably see you end of novemberish.

ed.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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fraggle
SILVER Member since Apr 2004

fraggle

member
Location: denver, colorado, USA

Total posts: 94
Posted:sometimes even if your with someone you can be alone

sometimes even if your single your not


sometimes love just walks away from you

but the reasons are usually right infront of you


dance your cares away
worries for another day
so let the music play
down in fragle rock

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hey beautiful. hug

I miss you dearly and still want to communicate my reflections via email... once I get my damn internet back.

As for the topic at hand, I find myself having a rare disagreement with my buddy Rozi.

Written by: Rozi

One of the first lessons I am learning, and not an easy one, is not to waste the joys of today in worry about what will happen tomorrow.



As you know... and actually as you REALLY know ubblove I have in my maturity put logic before love. I know we think differently on this but it's helped me keep my heart and soul and life rattled too much. You know that I'm the kind of person who would lose myself if I went chasing every hint of love. Maybe I'm a bad judge of love. Maybe I'm conservative. But you said something to me once. I changed the quote into something I believe a bit more.

"If you're not willing to chase love then you don't deserve to be in love."

I'm NOT willing to risk all that is "Me" and all of the things that make me who I am. I'm NOT willing to destroy my foundation of things and places that I love for another person. And that's why I'm alone now. And perhaps always be. And for me, that's OK.

You are brave. You've always been more brave than me. And I admire that about you. You have always been willing to risk it all for love. And every now and then the bill comes due. This is a low you're in now, a price tag for the highs that you have reached. Embrase who you are as you always have and always will.

So many people love you. It's nice to see you embrasing the idealism in your poem. (Forget Stone's critique... that's not you. wink )

Misses and Kisses and Tenderness in this time of Reflection,
NYC


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:Written by:
I'm NOT willing to risk all that is "Me" and all of the things that make me who I am. I'm NOT willing to destroy my foundation of things and places that I love for another person. And that's why I'm alone now. And perhaps always be. And for me, that's OK.



and thats surely what relationships should be based on - a partnership of two individuals rather than a merging into one. i think its possible - but you have to find the right person who is also wise enough to understand that.
on the other hand - it can be quite refreshing to let go of logic when thinking about love... i havent been able to do it personally ubblol but apparently everyone should try it once...


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:My view is that the best relationship is best friends with privileges. After all, I love my best friends with all my heart and soul. If I was sleeping with any of them, I think we'd basically be in a relationship.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hello my lovies. Wow, so many "old faces" in such a lovely topic.

First of all, lovely Cass, your translation is actually pretty close to how it is reprinted in English. I have it in a book somewhere.

Truthfully, the best kind of love is the kind that works for you, without engulfing you, be that friends with benefits, be it soul mates and monogamy for a lifetime, whatever it may be.

I think in couples the important thing to remember is that while neither should surrender him/herself completely to it (something I used to do and would end up miserable) both *will* change. As time passes, as you *choose* to *work* together as a couple, you will both change..and that is okay. I have seen people destroy one another trying to hang onto "themselves" and still be as a couple.

It is important to remember that compromise makes it work, and that it is rarely in perfect balance but that in the end, as long as it all balances out. There will be times when one partner will have greater need of compromise than another, but eventually, that tide will turn as well.

Make sure that there are more tears of laughter than tears of pain.
Make sure that what makes you feel safe and comfortable in the relationship is more than what doesn't.
And for love's sake, while you worry about the bills of tomorrow, make sure you enjoy the flowers of today. The piles of laundry and the dishes will be there later, will your opportunity to enjoy each other be there?

At least that is what I have learned along the way.
hug


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:thanks for replies and inspiration smile you guys rock biggrin

stone i actually have to say it is not the beginning of the poem that most touches me rather the idea of space and aloneness being what brings people close, thank you for sharing the poem (and hopefully see you at edinburgh gardens when it is less cold...)

zim ? zim Vader ? yolur are the brother of jeff vader ??? wink

NYC my angel i am not sure if you are adressing me or rozi ? I have been paying a price in the past months but not for loving with all my soul, rather for forgetting how to love purely deeply, not only another being but life itself smile and this poem is part of the things i learnt on the way... incl the value of being in love with yourself.
wanting someone, not needing them smile
and my other great lesson was not to give up when things are rougher... i find this to be a reall proof of friendship and friendship to be a real good base for love smile

Deep soul sheep which school are youa t ? ITM ? TMC (if TMC tell Joy and Meow i miss them) i will be in thailand in december ... will you stillb e there?

Pele, i agree with what you say about the best kind of love being the one that works for you, but only if you love yourself enough... what i mean is that quite often some stuff work for some because they have no idea it can be any other way, know what i mean ???

kind of lovely to share thoughts with you alll
with love
cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:smile ubblove

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:ubblove

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:To address that Cass, while we may not know another way, we do know in our hearts or our guts if it feels *wrong*. That is not a love that works for us.

For example, I had a pattern of *really* abusive relationships. It is the only way I knew love, but inside me I also knew it was wrong. What I needed, and learned, was to get the strength to leave, and then to heal so that I could figure out what love worked for me.

And now I know.
And it was one of the hardest journeys I have had in life, and one of the most rewarding.
And that there are millions of ways to love. And it is different for everyone.

It's like a recipe for cookies. Some people need more sugar, some people need more spice...but in the end you still get a cookie, they just may be different kinds. We all just have to have the courage to try something else, and I think that is the hardest part of loving anything...the initial leap of faith.

Hugs!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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babajaga
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

babajaga

old hand
Location: Berlin, Germany

Total posts: 863
Posted:Pele you speak out of my heart (no idea if that is the right expression it is just translated).

Abusive relationships, people who think they were able to love but they were not, that was all what I knew too.

I had no idea how to love neither myself nor others I just stuck in the process to learn another way (trying something else).

Loving is doing in that way you can learn how to do it and let it "work" for you and for others.

Not to have but to be.

hug hug hug hug for all


What is psychology?- Looking for a black cat in a dark room. What is psychoanalysis? Psychoanalysis is looking for a black cat in a dark room -- in which there is no cat -- but finding one anyway.

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Ki...

Total posts: 2216
Posted:nice poems and thoughtfull words. smile thanks for sharing....

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Those are lovely words cassandra, and wise.

Love for me is about.... well, i dont think i know.

I spent half my life looking for love.

When it found me I lost it and I felt like i lost half of myself, so i think as much as you can be yourself, a whole person... love is a joining.

Freedom in love is the joy of being completley yourself and sharing it completley with someone else.

I guess I think love is a gift for two people to share, give and recieve.


Love is the law.

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Lillie Frog


Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales

Total posts: 558
Posted:The wisest words from the craziest person.

Once I knew this bloke who was in a psychiatric hospital because he thought that the masons were putting poison in his food. (I was in there too so I'm not knocking him. And anyway, they might have been, you never know).
One day a few of us were talking and he looks around and says 'you know, most of the people here ane in because of the same thing'
'What?' we asked.
'Lonliness' he said.

It was the only real sane thing I ever heard him say, but it was also one of the wisest things I have ever heard anyone say.
And it was true, it was certainly true for me.
I've never forgotten it.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia

Total posts: 2615
Posted:This hole issue scares the hell out of me .

My past realationships all have had the same problems
(im too independent)


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:Written by:


One day a few of us were talking and he looks around and says 'you know, most of the people here ane in because of the same thing'

'What?' we asked.

'Lonliness' he said.





thats so true. its beautiful, true, insightful, but sorrowing at the same time.

perhaps too many 'perfect' hollywood movie romances give an imperfect idea of how true relationships need to work to grow. just as a random side thought - isnt there some quote in the 'traditional' marriage ceremony about 'becoming one'?

perhaps its all related in one big anthropological concept? - its could explain the stupidly massive divorce rates, affairs, and other relationship variables. two souls - in 'becoming one' lose that freedom & independance that we really need. with that loss - perhaps creativity and expressiveness are also diminished? leading to the need to 'break out' or have a mid life crisis?



oh dear - that thought has really opened too many possible avenues for thought for me to comprehend at the moment. i think ill go and think about this in my journal to get my thoughts in order.



take care all hug

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1097061319)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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OrangeBobo
SILVER Member since Nov 2003

OrangeBobo

veteran
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada

Total posts: 1389
Posted:I don't know enough about relationships, love, or myself to really comment insightfully...

And Dentrassi, I love you!!! ubblove

~ Bobo


wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:hug2

R


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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Written by: Dentrassi

perhaps too many 'perfect' hollywood movie romances give an imperfect idea of how true relationships need to work to grow.



One of the best ever quotes I've read is "I was annoyed at how poorly reading prepares one for real life. One comes to expect things to occur in a particular way and they do not."

I realised that is true of my own life and is very similar to the point you've brought up about movies.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Sunrise


Ivetka


Total posts: 211
Posted:I really like this poem as well cassandra..ubblove

Nice! hug


sunny
grouphug

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wouac
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

wouac

Poi-tato
Location: Iceberg 319, Canada

Total posts: 183
Posted:hmm most interesting i had something to say but quickly forgot yes that is a nice poem I read it once in english and youre copy was close enough to spark my memory vividly enough to remember it but in the words of the movie OldSchool :P..

"True love is hard to find, Sometimes you think you have true love then you catch the early flight home from sandiego and a couple of nude people jump out of your bathroom blindfolded like a goddam magic show ready to double team youre girl friend..and it stops right there it continues right here because what my friend is trying to say is true love is blind"

but when it all comes down to it love can't exist without sacrifice but like what everyone has said before me the sacrifice has to be mutual it cannot all be given by the one individual and if the loved one can't love you for who you are then the love cannot exist.

I guess I would agree with john lennon though when he said love is all there is, be it love for another human being, yourself, or an art form love is all that is needed to survive the passion should allow one to carry ones own weight and thus present success to said person...

anywho I'll stop my rambling now and just say good poems and good luck to all with much love and a beer for good health beerchug


It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potato's.

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phiredancer


member
Location: england, uk

Total posts: 61
Posted:a beautiful poem cass... i can see the heartfelt warmth behind this work and can relate...... smile

i must be loosing my mind.............come back!!!!!

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