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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:confused Ok this is going to be a good debate, or its going to bite me in my ass (or arse depending) but here we go <deep breath>

Why is it that the majority of people from the UK, Europe, and just about everywere else, seem to have this large problem with the USA????? I'm from the US, but my family was military, and I have been all over the world, so I have a great appreciation for other countrys and their differences (hell i was born on Lakenheath AFB in the UK), but I don't get why it seems like the US is the butt of most of the jokes from the UK and other places? I know our pres is an idiot to say the least, but not all Americans are fast food eating, world hateing, couch potatos...
And please DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A COUNTRY BASHING SLAM FEST........and if it does become that way, will the mods please delete it.......thanx, and please repsond and play nice confused


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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Rais
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

Rais

newbie
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 5
Posted:Personally i think the perception of a country largely comes form the actions of its government (obviously the external influences that country has with things like media, culture, trade, the stereotyped persona of someone from that country etc are also thrown into the equation). In my case however its not necessarily Americans I have a problem with, but George Bush and his arrogance, lies, hypocrisy etc. Then again I could be completely wrong and the media has manipulated the way he is portrayed incorrectly as they are wont to do, but I dont think so...



</ends rant>



ok so that media angle was a bit of a side tangent, (i just have a problem with people that blindly believe whatever they are told) however hopefully people will get my vague point smile

EDITED_BY: Rais (1096427834)


Do you think its too late for me to run away with the carnies?

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:You've put this in Chat... If you want a serious discussion, let me know and I'll move it over to Discussion for you.

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Zim
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Zim

Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 284
Posted:Yeah i gotta agree with the whole a country is seen mainly by the acts of their government... that's why we have jokes like: "Do you know why they shut down EuroDisney? Cause everytime they set off fireworks the french surrendered." We in the USA make schloads of jokes about europe (mainly france) and all other parts of the world. You gotta look at it from an opinionless point of view. Not ALL jokes are about other countries like you seem to say it is in europe... but that's probobly just them being jealous of our bigger guns wink

Clean for 6 months and counting... ah yeah, that's nice.

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hrm, my problem with the USA stems from my experience with American tourists, both from when I was living in Canada and here in Australia. I understand that these travellers are not necessarily the best ambassadors for the USA, the same way that all Australians aren't beer swilling swine... I find the Americans that visit Australia to be demanding, self absorbed, ignorant and arrogant, and enjoy nothing more than reminding us that our dollar is weaker than theirs. Although I know enough Yanks to know that they're not all wankers. Except for NYC. wink



I also groan a lot and roll my eyes almost out of my head when it comes to Americans, their Constitution and their Government. Such blind faith?! Such OTT patriotism and such a compulsion to applaude virtually anything said by anyone in Office. I find it offensive that tens of millions of dollars can be spent on a presedential "rally" and yet healthcare is so under subsidised it is often not an option for the poor. I find it offensive that the word "terror" and "terrorist" is bandied about willy-nilly blah blah blah. I should stop now.



I dunno.... sorry if I offended.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:The amount of time I have been chatting online with an American and they have blatantly made ignorant comments on the lacking in the Australian education system really gets my back up but I tend not to have any kind of racial thoughts about anyone.

When I was living in INdonesia with my American friend he and I used to constantly rib each other about our nationalities but it was all in harmless fun...maybe the problem is that some people take certain comments meant to be made out of fun in the wrong context.


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Zim, the French, in particular, are asking for it...ya hafta admit that much. wink

See, there's this myth that the French are rude. I wish to dispell this myth utterly and completely.

The French are not rude! They just...happen to hate you. That's all! biggrin

*ducking and running from Cassandra*


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:So when you meet someone that is from the US do you have a pre-disposition on how they are going to act, and what to expect from them? (question is for all) confused

i just dont get it. I dont think "oh great someone from the Australia! they're all criminals, or morons" but that seems to be the staple for what Americans are thought of..........i dunno just the optomistic tree huger in me


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs...

Total posts: 2719
Posted:Well, I have a horrible tendancy toward not liking the US, but thats the country and its previous and current governments' actions, and the fact that we here in the UK are slowly turning into Yanks gets my back up, especially the so called "black culture" of bling, rap, shooting people etc etc. We are turning into a socially inept crime ridden capitalist (eventhough we were the first) society, and I sometimes feel the need to blame this on someone. I blame inner cities as well, and the fact that a girl in this country can have 6 kids and get 280 a week (a WEEK thats more than I earn!) off benefits. I really F***ing hate that.



However, I can honestly say that the Americans I have met are really nice. But i only mix with the nice ones, i just cant abide self absorbed idiots. Every country has them, but the US, i feel, has a tendancy to elevate them, because they are so self absorbed they can make money by not realising that they are a t***. And the US loves money (the collective country, that is not the individuals). And you insist that the Vietnam war was a draw, and that we (you and us) are winning in Iraq, whilst we are losing. Badly.



We brits tend to get pasted as being stuck up, yanks tend to get viewed as arrogant (like stuck up, but with less style), French, Italians, Spanish are cowards (Why did the french help build the Channel Tunnel? So next time Germany invades, they can be in Trafalgar Square with their hands up that much quicker), Aussies are viewed as being beer-swilling and so far laid back they fall over ( thats a good thing tho, right?).



I personally never judge someone until I have spoken with them for at least 10 minutes. If you think thats a short time, remember it only takes 5 seconds to introduce yourself.



I have met a couple of spinners, and I have no doubt we all share common ground. A law unto ourselves.



Thanks....



Ill just go and take tea, and make sure my smoking jacket is clean for elevenses tomorrow....


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:You are just generalising now...you might not think "oh great someone from the Australia! they're all criminals, or morons" but I have met a number of Americans who have thought that way (mind you most needed serious help anyway because they seemed to hate everyone).

Just because you meet some people that seem to think that way doesn't mean that we all do.

I don't hold anything against anyone unless they have done something that deserves my contempt...and that contempt can only be held against an individual not a whole country.


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Zim
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Zim

Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 284
Posted:Props to lightning... the french DID had it coming :P

i'm an american and i try to be a nice person in general... when i go on vacations to places with my family they seem very much to be the demanding, rude cockmongers that flash fire described. I once even got into a fight with em about it. They were talkin bout how we paid X much for this vacation so we shouldn't have to wait X time for X things. My response was: "that doesn't entitle you to give some guy who works here [censored] for it."

and all the australians i know are awesome, ESPECIALLY the beer swilling ones. I do dislike a lot of things about the government here and do think half of it is a f#$(ing joke, but i feel the same why about policies and such in other places of the world. sooo overall i just make jokes and laugh about it all and NEVER take serious sides to it... what's the point?

"Canada is like a loft apartment over a really great party where the house owner passed out."


Clean for 6 months and counting... ah yeah, that's nice.

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Ok so I'm actually impressed with the way this has turned out. We have alot of honest, well thought out responses (which is more than I can say for our presidential candidates).........so..........lets change this a little

Now that we have a general idea on why, were these stereo types come from I pose this question..........What could we do to fix this? It has alreay esculated into wars in the past, so what can we do to keep it from hadening again???


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:and remember, canada is bigger, and on top. if the world was a prison, america would be canadas bitch :P

i spose it all comes back to 'first impressions last', and soo many people's first impressions of america are what we see on the news, and on sitcoms, and on discovery channel, and in the movies and ...

that list is, i reckon, half the problem. america is everywhere, has been for as long as people can remember, and prolly will be for a long time to come, and i think maybe the world is starting to get sick of it.

The first impression is, too, really important. when an american tourist pushes past you in line, when a french tourist tells you that you smell funny, when a japanese tourist starts taking photos of everything that moves and most things that dont, they all give an image of what the rest of that country is like. these first impressions, however, in today's world of internet and tv and long distance phoning, are all too often a stereotypical snapshot.

But yeah, as for stereotypes, i guess it really applies to so many nationalities and races that it doesnt really matter that much. if i said picture a scotsman, im guessing half the people in the world would see a short, bearded guy with red hair wearing a kilt and playing bagpipes. if i told you to picture an aussie, you'd think of a lanky, sunbirnt guy in a singlet, thongs, shorts and sunnies, wearing a hat with the dangly corky bits and with beer in hand. telling someone to imagine a kenyan would probably bring up a tall, really thin long distance runner style person. Stereotypes are everywhere, always have been, and, i daresay, will be around for a loong time yet.

I spose, its up to you, and me, and my housemate thats bottling beer, and everyone else, to change that first impression. to show the rest of the world that us aussies arent a bunch of beer swilling bozos. to show the world that americans arent all self indulged ignorant w@#kers. to show the world that not all kenyans are built like a stick insect. to show that not all people from japan have a photography fetish.

hmm. i have got to stop writing eyebleeders.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Zim
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Zim

Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 284
Posted:Yeahhh.... you can't fix it. It's how the world is. Telling people all over the world to stop [censored] talking america is like telling america to stop [censored] talking the french, it's just not gonna happen. I don't consider this a pessimistic point of view, i consider it a realistic point of view.

Oh, and america could take canada any day of the week.... we'd slap those e's and h's out of em so fast they'd be seeing phantasm moose(s) for a week.


Raver Invader
~Zim


Clean for 6 months and counting... ah yeah, that's nice.

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:although it would happen if some people in the world grew up a bit. although i'm allowed to take the piss out of the french cos i'm part of one. So presumably i need to grow up too confused

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:Written by: Zim

Yeahhh.... you can't fix it. It's how the world is.


You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:ok Zim you may be a realist, but im a dreamer, and i think it could be done. obviously not over night, or with in my life time, but maby my daughters, or her child's, or even farther off. my point is it all starts with us. if we go threw life saying "you cannt fix it. its how the world is" NOTHING ever will change, and no offense to you Zim, but to me thats a sad out look on the world, especially comeing from a raver........like i said no offesnse, just debate........think about it what if every one every were said that to all the worlds problems? the world would be ALOT worse off........oh and MiG i like eye bleeders, shows you actually thought something out, not just did some quick response....

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

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...{SAFE}...


...{SAFE}...

"if i jump in the fire, will you?"
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA

Total posts: 633
Posted:FF ive seen a very interesting side of this story . to me it stems from elementary school . the education system is set up to fail. the kids hardly get to learn what is going on abroad their very own boarders . its no wonder why the usa is considdered ignorant(stereotyping ovcourse) their poor knowledge is cut off at the knees in the beginning . then the child goes off to college or uni and finds out that there is another whole world out there , gets a degree , makes their money and then says " hmm lets go and see what such and such looks like" . off they go not knowing anything about how , what , when , where , partly because of their own ignorance and majorityly , because of the way the system is set up ?!?!

hmmm thats what i see .... does anyone else see this ???

thanks for the hot topic (very cool:D)


i like breaking the Law frown , of Gravity wink !

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The Real Fryed Fish


God's illgitament son
Location: state of confusion

Total posts: 1489
Posted:i agree safe, our education system needs VAST improvement (hell im proof cannt spell for $&^%) we nee to educate our children on other coultures, which goes back to what i was saying, its starts with us.......if the schools wont teach then we need to.........for instance, my daughter, i see that she spends as much time with my cuban grandparents, so she can learn another culture, hell she speaks better spanish than i do........but it all starts in the home...........but yes i agree with you safe

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Delete

grasshoppah
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

grasshoppah

HoP is teh suxor.
Location: Tampa, Florida

Total posts: 425
Posted:my country is better than your country.

Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:As much as you may wish to dream that the problem can be fixed it can't.

People will always have their owns views on life and unless we find some way of being able to get everyone to think the same way (now THAT is a scary thought) then there is no way that hatred will ever be gone.

Also as long as weapons are being produced there will always be another war to fight.


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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:we need alien invaders, so humanity has a common enemy to unite against. that, i reckon, is the only way the much vaunted world peace will ever happen. A case of 'i hate you, you hate me, but we both hate them more, so lets get after them and put our differences aside'

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Lillie Frog


Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales

Total posts: 558
Posted:All the Americans I have met personally have been really nice people, kind, courteous, everything you would wish someone to e.
However, most of my ideas about America come from the TV in particular and the media in general. Through these mediums we get an overdose of all the extreems of America, the flag waving patriots, the guests on Jerry Springer, the violence obsessed films. These all give a bad impression of americans, and one that does not match the reality of the (few) Americans I have met.
Also the ammount of TV and films from America that are shown in our country, and the ammount of coverage that America gets on our news and current events programs all serve to give the impression that 'America thinks it's better than us'
Perhaps you do, perhaps not, I don't know. However the impression is there and while it is there, me/us/the rest of the world will all be prone to the ordinary human reaction of 'who do they think they are?' and 'they think they're so great? Well they're not.' etc.
I don't know how this can be fixed, perhaps it can't. Perhaps while America and American culture are so prevalent through out the world it will always be so. Maybe it is right that who ever is on top get's taken down a peg or two, it is certainly normal in every other walk of life, why not in international relations?
America's government, and their desire to conquer and control the world, do not help the rest of the world gain a better, more balanced view of the American people in general, but I think that most of us know that ordainary Americans can dislike their government as much as we often dislike ours and still defend our country to all that might disparage her.

These are just my thoughts, I don't know if anyone else will agree with me, but it is how I see it.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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Zim
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Zim

Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 284
Posted:Sad point of view coming from a raver!? PLUR man, PLURRRR!

haha juuuuust kidding. Yeah i don't think of it as a sad point of view... even if the world was all united as one country there still would be mad [censored] talking. Example: the south in the US. I don't in any way discourage you from saying it's bad, cause it is. I don't think what you're saying is wrong either. I just don't think any time that the world is in the current state of mind that it's in right now everyone will change their minds and decide that we should stop saying bad stuff bout those guys across the sea. Things like communism and things that come up in every day conversation that people disagree on are enough to start it... Just because i disagree with you doesn't mean i think it's wrong.

Much Love
-Raver Invader
~Zim


Clean for 6 months and counting... ah yeah, that's nice.

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