Page: 1234
NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Captain Wet Blanket here.

There is currently a thread in the "Poi Moves" section which had just been pinned up by moderators which I believe has no business being in poi moves. Flash Fire's initial post indicates that it is appropriate for any staff/poi/misc toys posts to go there and they do. It is constantly bogged down with helpful, interesting non-poi related posts as Flash's initial post allows.

It was my understanding that the different sections were designed and implemented to allow each section to have it's own identity.

I fully support the existence of this thread as an "all toy moves learned" thread but not in the Poi Moves section.

Am I crazy in assuming that Poi Moves should be for Poi Moves?

I understand that Jugglers hate me because of the equipment I use. I have been cursed out and insulted for being a poi spinner on more than one occasion by other object manipulators. As someone who treats his poi spinning very independently of his other object manipulation, I'd like to see a purely poi section here on HoP. The thread is useful and wonderful, simply misplaced and now pinned in the wrong forum.

Love the Thread.
Save the Thread.
Move the Thread.

Allow us to have a Poi Moves section.

Hate Me,
Hurt Me,
NYC


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:not really a misnomer for me.

unless you were to create a whole new forum which only as this thread in it, there is nowhere for it to go, and therefore the most obvious place is the place which gets most traffic(which i thikn in 'moves' is very obviously poi, not staff or other).

*more agreement with cole*
(hey cole, can i punch-hug you for all this soon? why don't you come visit soon eh?)

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:same post time - almost the same words biggrin

see ya friday mr bloo.

hug*doof doof*hug (for the yank and the jock)


p.s. yes - i think the 'but' outweighs the original 'misnomer'.
admittedly, i do have a fairly big butt though... wink


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: bluecat

not really a misnomer for me.




See, now you're just being difficult. smile So a 5 ball cascade is a poi move?

Again, I'd be more likely to agree with your points of "traffic" and "tradition" than trying to convince me that a 5 ball cascade is a 'poi move'.

I do think the more effective arguement against what I'm saying is what you've been hinting at... which is "Yes, it's a misnomer BUT .... (traffic, tradition, status quo, slackness.)"

I'm unsure why nobody else sees this as clearly illogical. I'm FINE with it remaining... it's just illogical and inconsistant.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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MiG
MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG
Member Since: 16th Apr 2004
Total posts: 3415
Posted:what about, instead of poi moves, and staff moves sections, we had a 'moves' section, with four separate stickies - "Newly learnt poi moves", "Newly learnt staff moves", "Newly learnt juggling stuff", "Newly learnt other stuff/moves/whatever".

I can see the point in that it is bloody annoying having a look through the 'i just learnt a new move' in the poi section, and seeing page after page of '54243243123123343328241743734643876 16 ball cascade btb utl async, but its a bit messy' (no stabbing remark there, nor is it aimed at anyone). and it would be very nice to have a thread just about poi.

Why not make a 'juggling moves' thread, so the people that are into juggling (myself excluded, for now) can read about stuff and have it make sense. and the people that exclusively spin poi can read about stuff that makes sense to them. i really dont think an exclusive juggler would get what people are talking about when '5bt btb waistwrap with an isolated buzzsaw' is mentioned, much like an exclusive poi-er (myself inclusive) prolly wont get what a '55334242' is all about.


"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:there is a 'juggling moves' thread: its here.
lots of juggly type discussion going on in there smile

i don't read devilstick type stuff in the 'new moves' thread but it doesn't annoy me having to skip it.

i also like the fact that you can see what people are concentrating on at the moment.

one big 'moves' section would be a lot harder to navigate than the site is at the moment.

i honestly can't see that there is a better place for this thread...

but i think i made that point already wink


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:NYC:
not really a misnomer... because i've just looked at 5 random pages from the thread in question and here's what i found:

100 posts
66 posts about poi
16posts about sticks
14 posts bout juggling
4 posts utterly useless.

therefore Poi moves is blatantly the best place for it all. no?

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:See... you keep twisting my words.

Poi moves may be the best place for it, yes. But it's a misnomer.

Is Great Britain 64% English? So I'm sure the Scots won't mind if I refer to them as that... wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:pedantry:

i thought i'd got confused, but according to my dictionary.

a misnomer is a name that does not suit what it refers to, or the use of such a name.

The thread isn't misnamed, and neither is the forum.

Perhaps you mean 'category error'?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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MiG
MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG
Member Since: 16th Apr 2004
Total posts: 3415
Posted:i could see that the fact that it's called 'i just learned a new move' and is in the 'poi moves' section could be interpreted as being 'new poi moves'. hence, that interpretation is a misnomer, according to that definition. and it is, i think, a pretty easy to make interpretation.

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I'm not debating symantics with you Simian. Stop trying to be argumentative. It's becoming harassment.

My point is that "Poi moves" is a misnomer. My opinion is that it "does not suit what it refers to" and my opinion can not be wrong. You can disagree, but my word choice correctly identifies my opinion.

I'm done with this. I'm sure you guys understand my point despite your insistance that you don't.

Clearly, I'm not the only one who has a problem with people posting juggling and staff moves under the "poi moves" section but if you guys want to keep doing it I won't love you any less.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:banging, nails and heads.

IMHO.


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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:i understood your point. But you were entering a debate with Rob about whether or not "it" (?) was a "misnomer", which for the reasons stated i thought was a non-starter as they were the wrong terms to be debating on in the first place. Thought i could clarify.



But since clearly any further post i make here you will class as

mad Trying to be argumentative mad



...which hasn't been my motivation at any point, and is an accusation i find extremely insulting...



i will stop bothering to post here when i believe i have something of value to add. i'm sure you will be enormously pleased by this.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:To: mssrs NYC, Simian, Coleman and Bluecat

Please take one of these each.


Non-Https Image Link


It is a cool tablet, aka a chill pill.

Hoistility is one of the only things that I believe sucks and blows at the same time.

redface


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:that's not fair nyc.



your original point was (excuse the paraphrasing - tell me if you think its inaccurate) 'this thread needs to be moved because it annoys me to have juggling posts in the poi moves forum'.



somehow your point now is 'poi moves may be the best place for the thread, yes - all i was saying was that the thread was badly named and simian/you guys are harrassing me for it'.



that's not what happened at all.



you posted an opinion that a thread should be moved because the mods made it a sticky post in the wrong forum.

simian was stating his opinion and argued that the post should stay where it was.

your approach to that was to suggest he doesn't read properly and to restate your point that it should be moved.



you are both people i respect and like to consider as friends.

but this is silly.



nyc - if ya want me to stop posting what i've learnt in the official hop thread for posts of that nature i will - just to make yoo smile smile

just let know dude hug

or if the mods see fit to move it, i'm fine with that too - i would like more to continue to be able to post in that same thread than to have it split and new separate move threads started for each toy.



mods/admin - i think an official voice in this could stop another case of hoppers arguing about nothing of real consequence frown

move the thread or don't but please tell us either way hug



[edit: started this before i read the last two posts. cheers for the pill jon but i couldn't finish the whole thing - its really big!)

EDITED_BY: coleman (1096316833)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Agrees with Cole, but increases his doseage anyhoo.

wink

hug hug hug


Delete

Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:actually I think everyone is taking NYC's juggling comments a bit far... the point behind lashing at the jugglers, as I understood it at least, revolved aroudn the fact that NYC, myself, and others don't go to that forum because most of the time (at least form my point of view) when I check it, its got a juggling trick in there or a reference to one..

Now I'm not trying to start anything back up.. I just thought that everybody was taking the juggling bit a bit too far..

and again since people are kinda touchy.. to clarify.. I'm not saying its all juggling posts.. Im saying rpetty much everytime Ive ever checked it, its been mostly juggling stuff..granted by blue's count there is more staff, but, I typically see juggling moves.. and I don't check there often (if at all), when I did breeze through there and don't really see the point at all..

and again to clarify.. the point is that until now its been posted in.. whihc makes it just kinda there problem.. (which I know I never said anything because it was always thatway and I thought maybe that's some rule or something) BUT now its pinned... which means its at the top of my list all the time.. teasing me with the chance that I might win lotto and see someone posting about a poi move in the *gasp* poi section...

but to be fair... now that its pinned.. its easier to ignore.. becuase its not in my list of actual poi topics anymore.. however irrrelevent it is..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: coleman

your original point was (excuse the paraphrasing - tell me if you think its inaccurate) 'this thread needs to be moved because it annoys me to have juggling posts in the poi moves forum'.



Bullhonky.

Thanks Rev. I'm sorry I used the word 'juggling' as it is exactly what everyone is fixated on.

My initial post, and all subsequent posts, has had the exact same point which is really making me queazy restating so much. My initial post fixated on the LOCATION of the multi-toyed post and suggested moving it to a neutral, nonpoi locale.

For someone who puts the European Juggling Convention on his calandar before any other event of the year... and flys thousands of miles and spends thousands of dollars to watch jugglers juggle, I'd have thought you'd have felt the juggler love.

It's pissing my off that I'm now being characterized as a bigot for suggesting that a multi toyed thread should not go in a single toyed forum.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:I dont see you as that mate.

hug


Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Shut up whitey, nobody's talking to you.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:No one ever does.

frown

*runs off ranting and raving about the downfall of society*


Delete

Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:This is why i dont even go into the "*&^%$#@!" thread, let alone bother posting in it any more. And this thread is starting to piss me off nearly as much.

It should be in social wink


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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:Funny NYC, I said the same thing on gs.c.

No one ever posts in that "new moves" thread anymore... at least, no one that matters...

biggrin


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Written by: KaelGotRice

No one ever posts in that "new moves" thread anymore... at least, no one that matters...




Doesnt everyone matter?

I dont really have much to add here by way of arguement. I dont really do poi yet as i've just started to learn...

So by the poi forum standards, I am a complete newbie.

My personal experience with the learning new moves thread is this. The last three times I went in there I clicked back out because I couldnt understand siteswap.

Thats just me, I dont want to enter the debate about where the thread should be or who should post what in it based on location, title or general subject matter.

I made my own 'learning new moves' thread for contact staff because I couldnt find anywhere else to post.

and i think UCOF should get an award for being really nice hug


Love is the law.

Delete

bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:oooh the joy of watching potentially good discussion turning into a multipronged argument about anything but the original post.

anyway.
i, like cole, will now stop posting new juggling tricks in the 'new stuff' thred as obviously we are (unintentionally) stopping others from using that thread.

with both of us out that should ring it up to about 80% poi moves. (about the same as the number of english in the UK. and by the way, that was the wosrt argument tack i've ever heard from you NYC, and unworthy of you[explanation avilable if required])

does this mean you would still want it moveed? if not then you've shown yourself to be picking on jugglers as you quite blatantly said you weren't doing(and yes its brilliant that you come juggling all the time with us. hug2)

if you do still want it moved then fair enough. but then your arguments for moving it become weakr and weaker. after all if 8 out of every 10 posts was about a new poi move then surely it would be worth leving there. thats probably a higher percentage than most moves threads.

smiles
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:okay, change of tack for me i guess:



aside from the issue of it getting moved or starting individual 'new move learnt' threads for each toy (for admin/mods to decide), i didn't realise that my posting in it made people like rev, ado-p and mig feel like they didn't want to post the new moves they had learnt there.

if i knew people felt i'd 'taken the juggling a bit too far' (sorry but i like learning stuff!) i wouldn't have posted any juggling in the first place.



i know you don't have a problem with jugglers nyc! smile hug

but people here do have a problem with jugglers posting about things they don't understand and that's not very fair of us.

if it is moved to a multi-toy part of the site, poiers will still feel like they don't want to read it and consequently will post somewhere else (in poi moves most likely) which will prompt more individual 'i learnt this' threads.

i can see now my posting there actually discourages people from using/reading the thread and there are obviously more jugglers actively posting on this site/in that particular thread now than there has been in the past which is why this has come up now.



the reason i'm so defensive of it is because i often use it like a diary - you can search your own name on just that thread and get a chronological diary of your whole learning progression.

its a really nice thing to be able to see when you were playing with which toys and the order in which you learnt moves with them.



so (as a completely independent decision - i don't feel 'run out' or that i've been asked or made to do this), i will post my juggling related progression in my intro smile



hug


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:OK - how about we leave the thread where it is and the poi people can 'reclaim' the hread with poi moves and the non poi people can go and start staff / juggling / diablo threads on thier own turf.

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:No deal.

There can be only one. wink

Written by: coleman

i can see now my posting there actually discourages people from using/reading the thread and there are obviously more jugglers actively posting on this site/in that particular thread now than there has been in the past which is why this has come up now.




That's ALL I was sayin'. I was suggesting moving it, but leaving it for poi folks is fine too.

Thanks and Punchhugs.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:ok... let me just say this ebcause I'm thinking I'm being a bit misunderstood..


I DO NOT WISH TO SEE ANYONE NOT POSTING IN THE 'I JUST LEANRED A NEW MOVE' THREAD....

I DO NOT WISH TO SEE MULTI_TOY ACTIVITIES NOT POSTED ABOUT IN THE SAME SAID THREAD....

I beleive that was NYC's sentiments as well, as well as those who poseted on this thread disgruntled..

the only point being made is that it isnt a "poi moves" thread.. its kinda like simians tangle links thread.. VERY handy thread.. but not really poi related after the first couple of posts..

I'm not avoiding the I learned thread because people post juggling stuff specifically.. I don't post there because I feel its not really a poi thread.. its a universal thread.. If I really felt like reading about juggling (other toys) or staff (staff) or anyof the other topics.. covered in any of the other forums.. you'd see me surfing by there... you know..

I'm don't feel that the thread itself.. content.. etc.. need be changed.. its been that way LONG before I got here.. I don't feel a reason why my voice should change it now... I have always felt that the placement was wrong.. but kinda took it as an understood thing...

and again... it being pinned means its easier for me to ignore...

it is an incredibly misleading thread.. given the content and where it is.. I mean perhaps posting my new ceoncept threads in the other sections would kinda drill the point..


PS- Dom I think the consensus, however misunderstood by some, is that we like the thread the way it is.. which is why -it- could be moved.. and another I learned thread with only poi moves.. could replace it.. greatest happiness principal work for people? not like I'm saying anything anywhere in this post that hasnt been itterated by people on both sides all over this thread..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:its fixed rev - that thread is now specifically for listing which poi moves you have learnt.
staffers, jugglers, other toyers, dancers etc. will now post elsewhere.

"i mean perhaps posting my new ceoncept threads in the other sections would kinda drill the point."

no it wouldn't. the thread we were discussing was created for posting your achievements, whatever the prop and was only misleading if you didn't bother to read the first post.
it was obviously not for introducing new concepts in all toys and has never been used as such:
if i have a new poi concept, i post a new thread in poi moves.
if i have a new juggling concept (ubblol) or want to discuss what i'm working on, i post it here.

and from now on, if i learn a new move (juggling, staff, poi, acro, whatever) i will post it in my intro.

decision made, everybody's happy smile


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

tenticle
tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 275
Posted:Why not just ban juggling altogether? We could recruit a jugglerfinder army, pay them 12p per juggler found, possibly even disguise them as badgers. That'll teach them. You could get them to admit they are jugglers by tying them to a stake surrounded by bonfire and throwing them 3 flaming balls. If they survive, then they're blatently jugglers and should be burnt at the stake. Extreme firejuggling. Fun for all the family (and a barbeque afterwards.)

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Page: 1234

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