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elasta
elasta

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Location: wishing to be in Rio
Member Since: 28th Nov 2002
Total posts: 645
Posted:Firstly, please don't let this thread turn into an argument about names!



So lets get the definition out of the way. What I would call contact poi is movements where the poi handle leaves your hand and the poi swing round various parts of your body, OR THE OTHER POI before the handle returns to your hand again.



Nah, scrap that - I'm going to argue with myself, better definition: the process of manipulating the poi without gripping it.



At the time of writing this I haven't yet found a thread which describes the various contact moves around at the moment, so I would like to start this one in the hope that I can bounce ideas off people and advance my currently somewhat limited repertoir of variations. And sorry if I'm repeating things that have already been descibed - it's not always easy to tell on HoP.



ubbideaFirstly, your poi: The poi body: the length of poi between handle and head, should be made from comfortable material to have constantly rubbing against your skin- generally something thicker than string would be advisable (sock poi or cone poi are the best in my opinion). You also need to have weighted handles. It depends on the weight ratio between poi-head and poi-handle to where the "propellor point" or "contact point" is. (NB: I am making these names up - but they seem to be quite fitting).



I have found that a ratio of 2:3 handle to head is optimal for ease of propelloring (propellor definition follows underneath) and also for not disrupting the rest of my spinning repetoir, actually, I'm not entirely sure what my weight ratio is... but it is best to experiment with weights to find whatever suits you.



ubbrollsmile

So... some basic contact moves (sorry if I'm using foreign names to you):



propellors - I stole this name from the devil stick movement, seemed apt. Basically you move your hand from the poi handle onto the poi body, but maintain the rotation and tension of the poi. This can be done horizontally (much much easier), or vertically, and lead to endless possiblilties With the vertical propellor, you will find you need to give a little upwards push for every rotation to keep the momentum.





rolls (suicides they might be called?) - these are basically single rotations of propellors, but can be spun round more parts of the body because the motion doesn't have to be maintained. You release the handle just after you enter the wrap and give a push with whatever limb is being wrapped to allow the poi to spin one rotation before re-capturing the handle.



specific rolls I like:

- Over the arm, whilst the hand on that arm is either spinning or propelloring the other poi.

- Over the elbow and into a throw or wrist-propellor.



neck rolls - oh dear, this is where my terminology fails me, because what I call a neck roll doesn't actually roll around the neck, but generally over it, or just round one side. It is very much like a neck roll in staff, you swing the poi as if to wrap your neck up in it, but let go of the handle just as the poi makes contact with your neck, so that it simply slips round to be caught again - hopefully keeping the rotation.



another stolen contact staff move:

Step 1. horizontally spinning or propelloring in front of you in an inwards btfy motion

Step 2. take one poi up to your neck and do a neck roll

Step 3. catch on back of same hand and bring it back down in a propellor

Step 4. take other poi up to your neck and do a neck roll

Step 5. catch on back of same hand and bring it back down in a propellor

Step 6. repeat steps 2 to 5 ad infinitum.



And not to be forgotten as vital part of the contact family, discovered and developed largely by the not so large, but incredibly talented Matt Terry...(what an intro! )...

THE WIBBLE - source: www.spherculism.net, written by Matt Terry.



 Written by:





Wibble = throw, tapback, tapback, tapback, tapback, tapback....

where each 'tapback' is hitting the handle of the poi back the way it came.



If you make contact further toward the center of the poi body the poi won't wibble back straight away, instead it will do 1 wrap around your arm, then wibble off again. This doesn't have a specific wibbling name, it's just a wibble as far as i'm concerned, perhaps a propellor followed by a wibble if you want to get technical.



But 'Wibbling' is more 'a familiy' or 'style' of moves than a single specific thing.



Propellor = poi spinning round constantly in same direction, exactly the same as the 'propellor' devilstick move.



Doing this is tricky and releys on you making contact with the poi at the center of gravity (CoG), then sliding up toward the handle, poi jumps off a little, reset hand position to CoG. I find using 2 fingers is best.



So generally if the poi continues in the same direction then it's a propellor, if it changes direction it's a wibble, the 2 are closely related.



Both are considered 'Contact Poi' since you can make the 'throw' so tiny that the poi remains in contact with your body. Or you can throw it high and continue the propellor or wibble.



oh yeah:



wibble = 1 spin

dibble = 2 spins



ibble was a name given to the move where you tap the tail, then tap the head, so :



ibble = 1/2 spin (ie a proper juggling tapback)







Wibbling possibilities and variations

 Written by:





You can wibble under a leg or behind your back (I can toss one over my shoulder from back to front or from front to back but i cannot yet wibble btb)



You can do double wibbles and triple wibbles (dibbles and tribbles)



You can wibble, dibble or tribble off off the fore arm of the hand holding the opposite poi ~ inwards or outwards (harder).



You can link all those crazy throw patterns together into 1 seemless wibble.



I can now wibble once around my ankle and back up to my hand. Which i'm very happy abount.



I can almost pull off a wibble around my neck.



I can now wibble both poi at the same time in 2 hands, bit better than when i saw you last garthy but still not quite up to scratch.



You can wibble 2 poi off one hand (can't get this at all yet)



You can wibble between many poiple. Me and Rickets got 3 poi wibbling a kind of shower juggling pattern by standing next to each other.



You can hold 1 poi between your hands and wibble the other on the poi body. (Great idea someone came up with the other day in the forums, can't remember who, sorry)



Well, that's about the state of wibbling at the moment, thanks for all the support from poiple.





bounce bounce2Look here for some more interesting wibble-related contact stuff from Acciaio... bounce bounce2



So, that's all I got for basic movements, but some nice vaiations and combos:



rolls to propellors

- starting in an arm roll, allow the poi to move up towards your hand as it slips and keep that rotation going in a propellor (affective and easy in a horizontal plane)

- this is also particularly nice one from an elbow roll, started from an elbow through wrap through to the wrist propellor, as demonstrated by duballstar on spherculism.

- can also be done from starting the roll under your armpit and working it up your arm



trapping - this is where you trap the poi in various parts of your body or on your poi. e.g. in an armpit, elbow or behind the knee. It basically entails trapping the handle of the poi in somewhere other than your hand, but I'm sure there are plenty of lovely ways to do trappings with the poi head or body too. You dont have to maintain the rotation of the poi, but my favourite trappings all do - an example:



- underarm trapping - eg. using the right-hand poi. Hold your left arm out to the side, swing the RH poi underneath so it rotates behind your back, bring left arm down to your side and let go of the RH poi handle - thus trapping the poi (still swinging) under your left arm. There are various ways of getting out of this - either simply take the handle again with your RH, or you can release the trapping so that the poi is flung in any number of directions.... experiment!



contact throws and catches - haven't experimented a great deal with these, but the basic contact throw would be from a propellor - releasing the poi just after you give it an upwards push - minor hand movement variations can determine the direction of the throw. In a similar way, the basic contact catch would be a catch straight into a propellor - you just need to watch the rotation while its in the air and go into the propelloring motion as the poi head is just coming down from the 12-o-clock position.



Another contact throw is what I like to call the bounce throw, e.g. on the arm, from a wall plane RH poi anti-clockwise spin, with the poi head coming down from the 12-o-clock position to 9 with the Larm in the way, you place the handle on top of the Larm and let the rest of the poi body swing underneath, releasing the handle only as the poi starts to rise up again and giving a little *bounce* from the Larm. The RH poi will then spring off the arm. The direction of the throw can be altered by the length of time you hold the poi handle before the *bounce*



whip-catches these have been discussed in many other threads before this one, but I thought it was worth mentioning them here, as they can be considered also as a part of the contact family - a contact catch no less, and a bit of what I like to call poi on poi action My definition of a whip catch (and feel free to ammend any mistakes I make:) ) is the catching (whipping) of one poi out of the air onto the other poi. Since this means a throw preceeding the whip catch, there can be any number of variations: directional/throw origin/type

- throw from same directional spinning (i.e. weave-type motions)

- throw from opposite directional spinning (i.e. Btfly-type motions)

- from various origins e.g. back-cross, under-arm, under-leg etc

- throw type e.g. propellor throw, tapback, bounce throw...

INTO whipcatch variations!! Once you have caught the poi onto the other poi-body, there are a coulpe of variations I know of and I'm sure yet many more:

- suicide hyperloop, as the free handle comes spinning round - take hold and let the poi untangle as they undoubtably will at first refuse to do!... you just have to work at it

- whip throw! oh joy of joys! Stumbled across this accidentally, and now it is the bane of my life grrrrr, but basically involves timing the whip catch just right and making contact with the other poi in just the right place to cause the "whipped" poi to be thrown into the air again - of course in a very controlled manner to be caught beautifully into the free hand. (See the link for further explanation.)



This link also mentions another throw which could be catagorized as a contact throw:

hyperloop throw - more poi on poi action!!! This is a throw which can be done in two ways and two directions (as far as I know, but no doubt there are Btfly variations too). The following are all same directional spinning throws from wall plane:

- Clockwise. Release LH poi. Depends on your handle weighting as to where the poi should make contact, but fairly near the handle of the released poi and just handle-side of centre on the other is a safe bet. Should feel a bit like a bounce throw as is based on the same principles.

- Clockwise. Release RH poi. Again handle weighting dependant, but this throw can be seen very much like a propellor throw. The nexus on the "thrown" poi should be at the same place for doing a propellor, and on the "held" poi between poi-head and centre.

- Same principles apply for anti-clockwise hyperloop throws





7th Feb 2007 - time for an edit!



Some old, some new ideas, I just thought it'd be helpful to collate things in the first post of this thread:



I cant remember what the devil stick move for this is called - maybe helicopters. confused maybe should be called contact corkskrews But its basically when you...

meditate propellor the poi in a horizontal plane and move it from above your head to down low, then up again ad infinitum.

meditate you can also pop this out into a horizontal throw at the top.



NB. this move comes as a natural recovery from a f!cked up horizontal propellor - but it is different depending on whether you start at the top or underneath. Starting high is easier and you have to scoop your hand right around the poi as you bring it down, and open up again as you return upwards





One from the staff moves (have also forgotten name): (description for just one poi)

meditate spinning vertically CW in RH

meditate stick LH straight out to the left.

meditate swing poi BTB and under that left arm end up end falling behind the head

meditate use the momentum of the poi and a nudge from the left arm (it helps to swing the left arm up in the air) to force the poi into another rotation over the right shoulder and hopefully into your hand again!



NB. you can add the other poi into the move by simply spinning the other poi in the LH - easiest is CW, and you should start the move spinning the LH poi out to the side, and behind you



ubbrollsmile



BHB catch

sunny principle is:



meditate stick one hand straight up in air

meditate rotate poi inwards (e.g. LH CW as you look up)

meditate let poi slip in a propellor movement down your arm to your neck

meditate get timing just right, so poi slips elegantly rotating past your neck to your hip

meditate catch with other hand BTB



can be followed by:



meditate stick other hand straight up in air

meditate rotate poi outwards

meditate let poi slip in a propellor movement down your arm to your neck

meditate get timing just right, so poi slips elegantly rotating past your neck to your hip

meditate catch with other hand in front of your body



sweet.



an extension on these sliding horizontal propellors is the poi steve



- follow steps up until poi gets to your neck...

meditate use momentum of rotating poi to move it around the back of your neck.

meditate slip poi onto other arm and along to hand.

(forcing the poi upwards after the neckroll is nigh on impossible... but perhaps with a bit more practice...)



Proper neck rolls - OK, so I said my terminology was wrong. What I described as a "neck roll" before was only a half neck roll and then I discovered it was possible to do a FULL NECK ROLL woooooooooooo!! Again, hard hard move, almost so hard that your eyes bleed, but hey, its worth it! I guess it's obvious how it's done, just an extension of the roll family. So...

vertically - lean forwards and wrap as if to do the half roll described above (NB: can be placed on with either hand) and keep the momentum of the spin by following the movement of the poi with your head (does that make sense?), you basically draw a little circle in the air with your head - only its not exactly a circle, because you give the poi more of a push in the upwards direction than the down.

horizontally - I found this harder, but if you understood the directions for the vertical roll, you just apply the same theory to the horizontal plane. If anyone has any tips on how to do this sweetly, let me know!



multiple opposite direction arm rolls - once you can do an arm roll on the same arm that is already spinning a poi, try doing it from a butterfly motion, so that the poi are spinning in opposite directions on your arm and hand - haven't yet tried this with a propellor, but with a normal spin, its not as hard as it might sound!



propellor flowers and anti-spin propellor flowers good for breaking things around you.



propellor buzzsaw



snags nice name given to a nice move (see thread and video by Rovo snags 2.0) it's basically trapping one poi on the other (see trapping above) from any sort of wrap, manipulating them together for a bit and then releasing back into two hands again. Best to just watch the vid! Lots of nice variations possible



ankles fun! - apart from kick-ups and fibbles, there are many other nice things to do with feet and ankles with contact poi: 'ankle through-wraps' basically kick the poi from BTB to the front and into a throw; 'ankle propellors' self explanitory if you understand a propellor, but really really hard! Playing with these though develops lots of other ankle wrap variations - letting the poi wrap once around the ankle and flipping the handle up to unwrap, bounce-throws that harldy wrap at all... and a load of variations on direction of release (!!)





Phew, that was a lot of writing. Hope it makes sense. Hope I can do all of these soon!

NB: Video footage is still (!!) underway, so hopefully will soon be able to provide some useful links to demonstrate the moves.



jam

Lx

EDITED_BY: elasta (1171111134)


there's nothing quite as fulfilling as a tasty airwrap

if you're full of sh!t, at least you're fertile

"we are all flowers growing in God's garden... and that is why he spreads the sh!t around" - David Byrne

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Acciaio
Acciaio

Tangled into my spins

Member Since: 3rd Jan 2006
Total posts: 187
Posted:Great work I have to find the time to try something new from the first post! Thanx very much elasta!!! hug

A couple of comments... wink
About wibble matt had written something new on spherc...that is a more technical and correct definition...

and...about throttle? I'll hope that you find thetime to leave me a comment about? thanx in advance! wink

Acciaio devil


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elasta
elasta

addict
Location: wishing to be in Rio
Member Since: 28th Nov 2002
Total posts: 645
Posted:horizontal foot propellors, vertical BHB ankle propellors, vertical above-the-head elbow propellors

Lx


there's nothing quite as fulfilling as a tasty airwrap

if you're full of sh!t, at least you're fertile

"we are all flowers growing in God's garden... and that is why he spreads the sh!t around" - David Byrne

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elasta
elasta

addict
Location: wishing to be in Rio
Member Since: 28th Nov 2002
Total posts: 645
Posted:you know those move with double staffs where you kinda cross-pass them around your body and it looks really wierd like the staffs are going through your body?
well it works with poi too, if you pass them both from hand to hand at the same time you can move them around your body/neck/legs in a way that looks really cool! and kinda looks impossible with fire!

Lx


there's nothing quite as fulfilling as a tasty airwrap

if you're full of sh!t, at least you're fertile

"we are all flowers growing in God's garden... and that is why he spreads the sh!t around" - David Byrne

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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Please tell me you're thinking about doing another contact poi workshop at PLAY (assuming you're going?)

I'm finally making some progress with contact and I could do with another injection of inspiration from the master wink


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Gayle......!
Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol !!!!!!
Member Since: 9th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2444
Posted:Chutney, you could just come to Bristol when Laura is back. You DID say it was only just down the road and you should come and visit more often wink

Gayle.....!

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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Yep, you're right... I have been lame offtopic spank

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elasta
elasta

addict
Location: wishing to be in Rio
Member Since: 28th Nov 2002
Total posts: 645
Posted:well I'm really hoping to be at PLAY this year, it's one of the most njoyable festies ever for me!!... but now that it's in July... well, we'll see.

still, I'm back from Brazil to Brizzle in April, and actually I'm considering being back in time for the BJC, so I'm sure we can catch up at some point biggrin

anywho... today's developments were in the realms of antispin bfy arm propellors... sounds complicated? haha, yeah it kinda is! ubbloco but from a bfy, if you try to do an arm propellor, you have to antispin the poi in the hand of that arm to give the momentum to the prop.

cool Looks mighty cool if you get it... but its a matter of extreme patience to get any consistency in this! ubbrollsmile (well, thats what i though i about propellors i guess, 2 years later... sigh, I'll get there!!)

meditate


there's nothing quite as fulfilling as a tasty airwrap

if you're full of sh!t, at least you're fertile

"we are all flowers growing in God's garden... and that is why he spreads the sh!t around" - David Byrne

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:so i've been playing a bit more with the 'pretending your poi head is a staff centre' idea, and can now do doubles matrices, but everything else has gone to crap. is there someone i can show this idea too nearby who'll do more fun stuff with it than me...? pleeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssseeee?

JAM!


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Acciaio
Acciaio

Tangled into my spins

Member Since: 3rd Jan 2006
Total posts: 187
Posted:I have really not understand the concept bluecat...can you make a video or re-explain it better for non english smile I will be happy to understand what you are working on!!!

Thanx in advance!!

Acciaio devil


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:er. when i'm next near a camera, i will, yes....

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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elasta
elasta

addict
Location: wishing to be in Rio
Member Since: 28th Nov 2002
Total posts: 645
Posted:I'll be leading a 'contact poi' workshop at the BJC this year. Come and learn and exchange ideas! biggrin

there's nothing quite as fulfilling as a tasty airwrap

if you're full of sh!t, at least you're fertile

"we are all flowers growing in God's garden... and that is why he spreads the sh!t around" - David Byrne

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:*signs up*

smile


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:(Durbian... take notes smile )

Getting to the other side smile

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:If you have not already seen the Vulcan tech blog #2 then check it out:


Specifically Rovo is doing some beautifully executed contact poi (as he tends to do) around 1:09. Then around 2:48 Ronan is doing some rolls and tosses which blow my mind.

Now onto me.
Based on Nick Woolsey's design, I am using a small balloon filled with sand as the handle in my sock poi. This is awesome because it is relatively soft, the head to handle weight ratio is customizable (I like 3:1), and it molds to the hand.

And a couple combos I've been playing with:
One is where I toss my poi out of a vertical up stall at my middle, then catch them on each of my wrists and do a wibble (or two).
Second is inspired from Ronan's workshop at last year's FireDrums. He showed us a toss from backwards spin where as the poi get out to horizontal he flicks the handle to the side so that they spin horizontally for one rotation before catching them again. What I figured out is that I can do that horizontal toss, then catch the handles around my wrist (like in a wibble) and do a 360 spin with my arms extended.
I've haven't seen it yet but I feels beautiful.

Videos are in the works.


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:How does the balloon work? Is it encased in fabric like the head of the poi??

hug

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:In Master Nick's "how to make sock poi" video (

) he has us fill a 14inch balloon with rice and stick that in a long sock.

Then what I did was fill a 12in balloon with sand, put it about 8cm down the sock from the opening, twist the sock just above the balloon and fold it down, and put a ruberband below the sand balloon to hold down the fold.
I also measured out the head and handle so that their weight ratio was 3:1, which I think is best for the speed of the rotational momentum or what ever that is called (how fast it spins when I toss it).

Here is a photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyamitk/2808492610/in/photostream/

EDITED_BY: DyamiTK (1220006516)


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Oh my god.... thats amazing.

I'm not kidding... my poi are the same colour as that...

Err... were the same colour as that. I see how you've attached that, thats interesting.I like it. Does that not slip when you spin with it??? Or is it fastened by more than the rubber band??

How much rice is in there?


hug

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:the twisted part at the very top used to come loose but now I twist it tighter and an extra time and it hasn't given me trouble for a while. That's the key, is twisting the sock above the balloon before folding it down.

I measured the rice out to about 150grams. I like heavy poi. Everyone else I've helped to make these so far makes their poi a bit lighter.


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Ahh, my poi are 200grams each (Including the sock itself) I just thought that it would all come undone, thats bizarre that they're exactly the same sock as what I made mine out of... Quite a coincidence.

Oh and its not the ones in the avatar, they're my fatty poi! ^_^

On closer inspection all the colours on yours are backwards... yours goes dark blue, light blue, green yellow coming away from the head, mine are that going TOWARD the head. ^_^ I'm highly intrigued by that.

EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1220009471)


hug

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