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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hi there everyone,

After a couple of requests, some consideration and my own rather curvaceous tangent on the thread for the Russian families of the school massacre I decided to start a thread dedicated to interesting issues in the daily news (or even the daily news itself, anything news-related really you get the idea).

Ive done a search and while theres hundreds of threads for individual news stories, I couldnt find one for an ongoing discussion of whats happening in the world around us.

I know lots of people dont follow the news, but many do, and my opinion is that discussion on current events gives people a better understanding of nations, races and humanity, for want of a better word.

HoP is in the enviable position of having a really global audience there cant be many websites with regular posting members from right across the world, covering such a wide spectrum of cultures, ideas and beliefs. We have the ability to look at events from many different viewpoints, so I thought we should use it.

Anyways, I was thinking we could post, or draw attention to, some of the main stories that affect us on a daily basis

Btw, I really dont want this to become an America-bashing thread (or any other type of bashing). I think most of us share the view that the American government are fairly appalling at the minute, and while criticism will definitely happen, I dont want any Americans on the site to feel victimised or that pro-Bush types feel their views arent valid. Try to keep all the views considered and, if possible, sourced.

So anyways, let me know what you think

A couple of interesting stories I picked up on today were:

Indonesia has become the latest nation to join the war on terrorism following the car bomb at the Australian embassy which killed 9 people and injured 180 I heard an Indonesian government official (I think it was the spokesman for the Indonesian foreign ministry) say they are 'now ready to join the war on terror', after it was alleged the militant Islamic group Jemaah Islamiah were responsible. (sorry, am about to leave work and couldn't find a source... will try to get it tomorrow).

Also, US secretary of state Colin Powell has declared the situation in Sudan a genocide:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3641820.stm
br>
It seems the countries are busy arguing over the term genocide as opposed to actually getting out there with aid and peacekeeping forces.

Anyways, Id be interested to hear anyones opinions on these stories as well as anything else youd like to bring up

Thanks
take care
Clare xox


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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Good idea!

Briefly on the Indonesia issue a couple of things I noticed:

1) The lists of terrorist attacks in Indonesian are very incomplete. I was there for 6 week a year and a bit ago and during that time there were 2 bombings in Jakarta. Neither is being listed as they weren't Islamic based terrorism. It seems that Islamic terrorists need to be fought against but all other terrorists aren't so bad and should be talked to e.g. Aceh sepratists in Indonesia and (according to the White House) Chechen rebels. And I notice the Sudanese government is considered Arabic.

2) The Indonesia bombing was headline news - 9 dead and 160 wounded and it's bg news that there's still danger in Indonesia to 'westerners'. However as no white floks died the news was quickly replaced as leading headline by some editors as 6 British soldiers were tragically killed in a training exercise.

Obviously the media focuses on it's own countries citizens, but I guess I'm just getting annoyed at news stories along the lines of "2 British soldiers were killed in Iraq today. Oh, and by the way 35 Iraqis were killed to." Especially when the soldiers made the choice to be there but the Iraqis didn't.

rant over. next!


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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Exactly Dom!

It's becoming frighteningly obvious that this 'war on terror' is becoming a 'war on muslims'... Why is this happening?! Who is it benefiting?!

I heard them mention on the news the Marriott hotel attack in Indonesia last year... but already on the BBC website the report leads with Australia's response to the embassy bomb - despite the fact the victims were Indonesian!!! Surely a response from the families or the police investigator would be more appropriate at this stage?

As for replacing the headlines... I suggest this happened because there are no pictures (at the minute) of the Indonesian explosion... whereas the editors can get pictures of grieving families and army spokesmen. But you're right... editors don't seem to be interested in anything that doesn't happen on the doorstep.

The reporting of '2 British soldiers, oh, and 35 Iraqi's died today' has been happened right from the start of the invasion. It's sickening. It gives the impression that because they live in another country, it's somehow less important. Tomorrow I will try to source a total of Iraqi dead... but right now, I'm really late leaving work and have to go home biggrin

take care
xx


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Written by: Dom

Especially when the soldiers made the choice to be there....




*Raises an eybrow*
I dont agree with that.


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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:Written by: Urology Centre of Florida

Written by: Dom

Especially when the soldiers made the choice to be there....




*Raises an eybrow*
I dont agree with that.



i do

no one dragged them there kicking and screaming

the u.s. is always at war with some nation or other. you can't convince me that young men who join the u.s. army never expect to be sent to war.....


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:Written by: Dom


Obviously the media focuses on it's own countries citizens, but I guess I'm just getting annoyed at news stories along the lines of "2 British soldiers were killed in Iraq today. Oh, and by the way 35 Iraqis were killed to."




There was Sketch on "Not the Nine O'clock news" ages ago. I don't remember it word for word but it was something like...

"Here is the Parrot News.......Today there was a mass pile up of cars on the M25. 50 people are feared dead . Happily, no parrots are believed to be involved. And now for the weather."

I find it insulting that the Media think we are so shallow and nationalistic (for want of a better word) that we only care about people that, by a stroke of nature, happen to have been born in the same country as ourselves.


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:There are people in the US army that are now trying to get out. DO a quick search for Conscientious Objectors and you'll see what I mean. One high profile case has a guy in Oklahoma in prison and awaiting trial. Getting out as a CO seems to be based on moral objections



It is fair to say though, anyone who signed up since the Gulf War should have known what they were getting into. This applies to all the allied forces, not just the US.



Its also true the the US gov are instigating a 'Stop Loss' program where at least 6500 troops will be staying for a year longer than than they thought. This includes many who were due to be rotated out after a four year tour.



There are also talks of a possible draft in 2005 combined with a much more active use of the reserve forces.



With 1000 troops dead and many thousands injured, the troops in iraq are spread dangerously thin. Unless the occupying forces drastically rethiink their strategy it is unlikely that they will be able to hold their ground in the longer term.




EDITED_BY: ado-p (1094810364)


Love is the law.

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Morning all,

Skulduggery... unfortunately, most people are so shallow and nationalistic! The wide cross-section of opinion that we have on this website is not representative of the rest of the UK (or anywhere else in the world) - in the respect that people on HoP generally seem to be more 'free-thinking' or at least willing to question what we are told.

The majority of people love to see their faces or names in the paper (it's what sells), and so the media will respond to that demand by filling the paper (or broadcast) with home news. People also love to know what is going on down the street or if their husband/wife is going to lose their job when the nearby brewery closes down.

People also like to know what is going on in the rest of the world - but for most, that comes secondary.

Ideally, every news broadcast would last about an hour and would tell as much as possible of the local and global picture. Every newspaper would be the size of War and Peace and give an indepth account of stories at home and abroad - but it's impossible (and would people actually be interested enough to read it all or watch it all - does anyone here watch News 24 constantly?!)

Anyways, with regards the troops in Iraq... perhaps someone who knows better than me can say... but are all America's troops in Iraq?!
They have a 'minimal' presence in Afghanistan (which Osama bin Laden's deputy says are being defeated - although I can't find any independent verification) and I'm sure other countries, but surely America's 'huge' army isn't spread so thin?!

As Aidan said, America has suffered 1000 fatalities since the end of the war, I had no idea this would have dented so hard on an armed forces I had always imagined the army was in the hundreds of thousands.

Perhaps this is why they can't send troops to Sudan?! (Incidentally, I see the Sudanese government has, predictably, said there is no 'genocide' in their country and that Powell is fishing for votes... doesn't quite explain the deaths, though)

It's taken me about an hour, but I finally found this website...
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
br>Omigod. Very upsetting, and it's not official, though claims to be sourced from a wide range of online media (check out the background section)...

Thirteen thousand, eight hundred and two.


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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:Written by: Firepoise

Anyways, with regards the troops in Iraq... perhaps someone who knows better than me can say... but are all America's troops in Iraq?!
They have a 'minimal' presence in Afghanistan (which Osama bin Laden's deputy says are being defeated - although I can't find any independent verification) and I'm sure other countries, but surely America's 'huge' army isn't spread so thin?!




anyone remember this scenario from a couple of months ago? i find this every bit as alarming as the situation in the middle east, but it never really made headline news either. and funnily enough there's no mention of it by the media any more at all. does anyone know if the ships are still there?

Written by: Firepoise

It's taken me about an hour, but I finally found this website...
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
br>Omigod. Very upsetting, and it's not official, though claims to be sourced from a wide range of online media (check out the background section)...

Thirteen thousand, eight hundred and two.



and the bodycount figures you've quoted above match my information from the irish anti-war movement, so it's in or thereabouts alright frown


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:

Written by: Faberge

no one dragged them there kicking and screaming





No but someone ordered them there. and refusing orders is a court marshall offence.

So it is either, go to iraq. or goto jail.


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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:my point was that by joining the army the chances of them being sent to war at some stage or other were pretty steep, and they had to have known and accepted this. you only have to look at their military past to see this.



i stand by my point that they knew what they were getting themselves in for.



i cannot bring myself to feel much sympathy for the soldiers who lose their lives there. for their griefstricken families, yes, but for them, no.



my sympathy lies with the innocent people of iraq & afghanistan who had no choice whatsoever.



peace

EDITED_BY: Faberg (1094819319)


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:I agree with you now.

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Lisa,
thanks for that info about the Navy ships... my god, it's frightening to think that as the last of the veterans from WW1 and even WW2 die, we could be setting ourselves up for another global conflict (and I mean 'we' as in everyone, not just identified by nation).

from the net:
Great article from Asia Times:
http://atimes.com/atimes/China/FG24Ad07.html
br>British and Chinese Naval forces collaborating in search and rescue missions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3822963.stm
br>
I also found this story in Turkish Press of all places, re: the number of troops America has, and their deployment:
http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=24683
br>
With regards the US military... as Lisa said, any and all deaths in such circumstances are wrong. But why would anyone join the army and not expect to go to war?!
Surely it's like becoming a surgeon without wanting to operate.
The army are trained for combat and when that country goes to war, they must go too. What else did they sign up for? A regular wage and a bit of exercise?!!

Anyways, to move this whole topic away from war for the mo...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3643142.stm
br>How would you feel if you were here?!!
As we overpopulate the world, more and more people are choosing to live in danger zones. Every year the Carribean and east coast of America are battered by hurricanes, but people rebuild and move on.
In Wellington, NZ, half the city is built on reclaimed land (basically, beach with concrete laid over it... not very stable)... another portion of the city lives on houses on stilts far up into the hills and mountains that surround the city. Wellington is also on a faultline and is 60 years (I think) overdue a major earthquake. Apparently, they get little tremors every couple of weeks...
Would you live somewhere like this? And can anything be done to make people better prepared for natural disasters?!

Also, so that this thread doesn't disintegrate into misery and woe...
I know most of you will enjoy this one...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3644628.stm
br>woohoo!!!

xx


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Domino
SILVER Member since May 2004

UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK

Total posts: 757
Posted:Written by: Firepoise
thanks for that info about the Navy ships... my god, it's frightening to think that as the last of the veterans from WW1 and even WW2 die, we could be setting ourselves up for another global conflict (and I mean 'we' as in everyone, not just identified by nation).



He can put it much more convincingly than I can put as my dad puts it, we are already in WW3 and have been for years. Terrorism did not start with 9/11. Bad people have always been out there, and have always used terror to try to influence. My family came from South Africa, shopping centres were regularly blown up. The IRA blew up chunks of Birmingham. Bad people are out there and always have been. Accept it, where you can help fight it, and get on with life.

I dont know if my point has come across very well, but it is my (current) opinion.


Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs...

Total posts: 2719
Posted:Its always the few nutters that ruin it for the rest of us... The islamic fundamentalists (ps did you know it says nowhere in the koran to kill any non-believer, same as the Bible) christian fundamentalists (IRA et al) anarchists etcetc...

I have a theory... There is no hope left in the world, no-one any longer believes that it can get better, because changes are happening so fast that we dont notice it? Anyone here not take the Internet for granted, btw, even though it has been the greatest communications and ideas sharing tool ever, and possibly the greatest invention since the Wheel, IMHO?

As for America bashing, i cannot let it slip by without saying that when we brits go to war with the yanks, it is without a doubt the americans that our troops are more scared of, not the enemy...

Please vote bush out, and we will do the same with blair...

PS: I love you all, there are far too many sensible people out there that do not have a louder voice...


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:The IRA are not Christian fundamentalists.

The civil war in Northern Ireland was reported in the international media as a war between 'Catholics' and 'Protestants' because they found it easier to report this instead of the real descriptions of each group (But you're from the UK, so you should know this already?!)

The IRA was fighting to get the British out of Northern Ireland. It was supported mainly by the Catholic community in the north. The loyalists (who are a much greater problem here at the minute) were supported mainly by the Protestants. Loyalist paramilitaries took up arms to fight the IRA and keep the status quo.
(This is a simplification of a complex issue, but its a more accurate overview than 'christian fundamentalism')

It was because of that broad support within each community (incidentally, the vast majority of people in this country do not support violence under any circumstances) that the media 'simplified' it to a religious conflict.

There has always been conflict Domino - Northern Ireland has seen its share of shopping centre bombs too - but this is certainly not WW3. When armies across the world are mobilised against one another... that will be the next war (though, it has been suggested that the next war will employ nuclear weapons with no need for troops)

I would also suggest that British troops are not so scared of a mistake by the Americans than they would be living under the constant fear of a sniper/mortar attack, or accidentally driving their tank over an anti-tank mine.
(But I do take your point... there have been some horrific 'errors' during the Iraq invasion)

Anyone any views on the hurricane heading over Jamaica (en route to Cuba and Florida?!)

Or the last story I posted - cannabis for medical use?!

xx


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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:food for thought;
before the 9-11 attacks, the americans thought that the most likely cause of turmoil in the world would be the China-Taiwan situation.
but who hears about that these days?

also, i completely disagree with the "war on muslims" thing. and i dont really know why, but it offends me that people think that is the case.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:
Firepoise, to answer your earlier question, are all America's troops in Iraq?!

I think a few are tied up in Korea.


smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Written by: newsmax wires

Chinese Minister Boasts of 'Smashing" Taiwan

NewsMax Wires
Monday, Aug. 2, 2004

BEIJING - China's defense minister issued a stern warning to Taiwan, saying the mainland military has the strength and determination to "smash" any moves toward independence by the self-ruled island, state media reported Sunday.

Speaking at a reception marking the 77th anniversary of the founding of the People's Liberation Army, Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan said China's "territorial sovereignty and integrity is supreme," the official Xinhua News Agency said.



Love is the law.

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:where did you get that article, please ubbangel

we're studying the issue at school, but we're struggling to find anything recent (and its only recent stuff the exam cares about)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:http://www.newsmax.com
br>
on this page

http://www.newsmax.com/hottopics/China!Taiwan.shtml
br>
and for contrast, heres the news as seen in china

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/
br>
good look with your project smile


Love is the law.

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:thanks! hug kiss

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hello everyone, hope you all had a good weekend.

I think I might put together a big post with lots of news agencies and other sources from around the world - that way you don't even have to search google yourself to find out what's going on!! biggrin
If you have anything you think should be included, pm me.

Anyways, for those of you in the UK... Panorama tonight on BBC1at 10.15 is looking at the Beslan school seige - they usually give a fairly balanced report. I'll be in work, so will miss it. Can anyone give me an overview?

Ok, there's been a few things happening over the weekend that caught my eye.

Hurricane Ivan is now ripping through the Cayman Islands, en route to Cuba
BBC update:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3649234.stm
br>Unfortunately, this is the only source I could find for Cuba (and I think it's being run by an American company), let me know if you have any better
http://www.cubadaily.com/
br>
Also, this particularly mysterious story coming out of North Korea:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3648794.stm
br>North Korea news site (obviously government-controlled)
http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm
br>
I'm off to work, take care
xx


Getting to the other side smile

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Mags The Jedi
GOLD Member since May 2004

Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK

Total posts: 2020
Posted:Blah.

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Nice site... doesn't work on this computer though frown

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Mags The Jedi
GOLD Member since May 2004

Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK

Total posts: 2020
Posted:That's silly. Why not?

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Don't know.

The links work, but it says headlines should appear when I hover... and they don't.

Also, why do the stories not appear over the countries they're happening in (North Korea and Zimbabwe)?

And most confusingly of all... why on earth have they sourced anything from UTV (an Ulster commercial-type news source, which isn't that good) - and of all the stories they could have chosen from Ireland today (including a man getting killed while part of a police chase), did they chose a bus strike? Another link brings you to the sign-in subscription page of the Irish Times. Bizarre.



Still a very convenient site... where did you find it?


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Mags The Jedi
GOLD Member since May 2004

Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK

Total posts: 2020
Posted:Link given to me by my college tutors. It's not brilliant, but useful if you're really lazy.

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Oh. tis ok, I see what they've done now.
x


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Mags The Jedi
GOLD Member since May 2004

Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK

Total posts: 2020
Posted:This is fun and has lots of great links.

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Jeez, that site has some great links! Thanks... biggrin

It still disturbs me though that Bush's approval rating is so close (though, this is the weekend of the anniversary of Sept 11, and it seems the cross section was of 166 people)

Ok, will start putting some links together.

Clare x


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