Forums > Technical Discussion > What went wrong?
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Right, I just tried to light up one of my torches after soaking it with my boric acid/paint thinner combination. I was under the assumption that paint thinner was along the same lines as Methylated Spirits, apparently not.
I was unsure if the boric acid was disolving so I put more than enough in for the amount of fuel I was using (untill there was a nice layer on the bottom of it), then shook it around to mix it all up.
Either the paint thinner burns too yellow or they just didn't join together.
I'd like to try using Methylated Spirits, but I need some sort of a common name for them, and where I can get them. I've gone through 3 pages of searches looking for that information and I didn't come up with any thing.
Right, I just tried to light up one of my torches after soaking it with my boric acid/paint thinner combination. I was under the assumption that paint thinner was along the same lines as Methylated Spirits, apparently not.
I was unsure if the boric acid was disolving so I put more than enough in for the amount of fuel I was using (untill there was a nice layer on the bottom of it), then shook it around to mix it all up.
Either the paint thinner burns too yellow or they just didn't join together.
I'd like to try using Methylated Spirits, but I need some sort of a common name for them, and where I can get them. I've gone through 3 pages of searches looking for that information and I didn't come up with any thing.
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Mr Angel...you may not be as immortal as your name suggests.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't make assumptions that products are similar especially when burning them near your body and breathing in the fumes...
Boric acid is highly toxic when mixed with meths, and is really bad to breath in the fumes or to have it touch your skin.
The paint thinner you have, when mixed with boric could end up being deadly if you manage to light it. You may have got off lightly in this...
Whenever you get any new chemical to burn, get an MSDS sheet from the people selling it (they must supply one if asked) and ring the local poisons line to ask about it when mixed with boric.
You are lucky the thing didn't light! As you don't seem to knwo what was in it, it could just have easily exploded in your face and killed you...
Sorry to come down so hard, but I am more concerned with your life and long term health than a wimpy coloured flame that goes out quick...
Written by:
was under the assumption that paint thinner was along the same lines as Methylated Spirits, apparently not.
Mr Angel...you may not be as immortal as your name suggests.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't make assumptions that products are similar especially when burning them near your body and breathing in the fumes...
Boric acid is highly toxic when mixed with meths, and is really bad to breath in the fumes or to have it touch your skin.
The paint thinner you have, when mixed with boric could end up being deadly if you manage to light it. You may have got off lightly in this...
Whenever you get any new chemical to burn, get an MSDS sheet from the people selling it (they must supply one if asked) and ring the local poisons line to ask about it when mixed with boric.
You are lucky the thing didn't light! As you don't seem to knwo what was in it, it could just have easily exploded in your face and killed you...
Sorry to come down so hard, but I am more concerned with your life and long term health than a wimpy coloured flame that goes out quick...
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resident bagpiper
342 posts
Location: Vermont, USA
342 posts
Location: Vermont, USA
Posted:
on an informational note, many brands of drygas engine additive are meths. in addition, some people have had good results with "denatured alcohol solvent", look in hardware store. if you think it dissolved, the problem was brobably that your wicks had residue from previous burns on them. sometimes the residues yellow burn overpowers the green. all attempts to spin colored fire are dangerous. the smoke of meths has even been rumored to contain neurotoxins, however, mkost of us spin parrafin which has been doped with naptha, which is just as bad. therefore, i only say, open space, one or two burns a night, don't make your nights continuous. however, dont just try a fuel because it seems similar, you could kill youself...after all gasolene and kerosene are both petroleum products, and both can run engines....
on an informational note, many brands of drygas engine additive are meths. in addition, some people have had good results with "denatured alcohol solvent", look in hardware store. if you think it dissolved, the problem was brobably that your wicks had residue from previous burns on them. sometimes the residues yellow burn overpowers the green. all attempts to spin colored fire are dangerous. the smoke of meths has even been rumored to contain neurotoxins, however, mkost of us spin parrafin which has been doped with naptha, which is just as bad. therefore, i only say, open space, one or two burns a night, don't make your nights continuous. however, dont just try a fuel because it seems similar, you could kill youself...after all gasolene and kerosene are both petroleum products, and both can run engines....
Q:What's the difference between the Great Highland Bagpipes and the Northumbrian Pipes?
A:The Great Highland Pipes burn longer.
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Alright, it seems you guys think I was just making blind guesses at what was what. I was assuming they were similar because I had seen people talking about it here, in one of many colored fire threads.
Secondly, it did light, but it didn't go green, it was just a normal flame.
Thirdly, it was a fresh torch I tried it with (made it just for it)
Alright, now I talked with some performers at my renaissance festival about it, very nice people, go by the stage name of The Daring Devilinis. They gave me all sorts of information and things. Took the time to show me some things, and gave me better reasons to scrap the paint thinner than you guys gave me here. Turns out it's incredibly carcinogenic, and gives you brain cancer
They also told me I should be able to get it at the same pharmacy I get my boric acid at.
Alright, it seems you guys think I was just making blind guesses at what was what. I was assuming they were similar because I had seen people talking about it here, in one of many colored fire threads.
Secondly, it did light, but it didn't go green, it was just a normal flame.
Thirdly, it was a fresh torch I tried it with (made it just for it)
Alright, now I talked with some performers at my renaissance festival about it, very nice people, go by the stage name of The Daring Devilinis. They gave me all sorts of information and things. Took the time to show me some things, and gave me better reasons to scrap the paint thinner than you guys gave me here. Turns out it's incredibly carcinogenic, and gives you brain cancer
They also told me I should be able to get it at the same pharmacy I get my boric acid at.
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
GOLD Member
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posted:
Uhm....so cancer is a better reason than blowing your face off? In my book, I'd rather avoid either.
Charles is right, when looking into flame effects, one should ALWAYS refer to the MSDS, and not just word of mouth. The advice of folks here is good, but not necessarily enough.
Uhm....so cancer is a better reason than blowing your face off? In my book, I'd rather avoid either.
Charles is right, when looking into flame effects, one should ALWAYS refer to the MSDS, and not just word of mouth. The advice of folks here is good, but not necessarily enough.
Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
I was going to write a post asking Mand to explain all the sections of the MSDS...buyt then i looked one up...and lets face it...
a 10 year old could understand what to, and what not to do.
They are really easy to read and understand.
Best thing to do is goto www.google.co.uk and type in the name of whatever you are looking for and "msds".
I was going to write a post asking Mand to explain all the sections of the MSDS...buyt then i looked one up...and lets face it...
a 10 year old could understand what to, and what not to do.
They are really easy to read and understand.
Best thing to do is goto www.google.co.uk and type in the name of whatever you are looking for and "msds".
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
using denatured alcohol works wonders....mixed w\the boric it makes a nice pastel green color...doesnt burn too long though
using denatured alcohol works wonders....mixed w\the boric it makes a nice pastel green color...doesnt burn too long though
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Best thing to do is goto www.google.co.uk and type in the name of whatever you are looking for and "msds".
I don't agree. If you typed in "Ultra Pure Kerosene MSDS" you'd get the MSDS for a specific type of ultra pure kero, but probably not YOUR kind. Although the chance that there would be a large enough difference to matter is small, it is still there. You'd best ask for it when you buy it. But I'm just weird.
Best thing to do is goto www.google.co.uk and type in the name of whatever you are looking for and "msds".
I don't agree. If you typed in "Ultra Pure Kerosene MSDS" you'd get the MSDS for a specific type of ultra pure kero, but probably not YOUR kind. Although the chance that there would be a large enough difference to matter is small, it is still there. You'd best ask for it when you buy it. But I'm just weird.
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Ok...how many petrol stations, or garden centres do you know that have the MSDS for paraffin to hand?
How many of the people working there would even know WTF a MSDS is?
Ok...how many petrol stations, or garden centres do you know that have the MSDS for paraffin to hand?
How many of the people working there would even know WTF a MSDS is?
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
These are both good points, which is why I ended up going by what I heard here. I had no way of getting the MSDS for the stuff I used because not only was the site they put on the bottle non functional, so I couldn't contact them, but it didn't have any information on the side.
But then again, I'll be damned if anyone working at the home hardware I bought it at knew what an MSDS was, let alone would be able to get me one if I asked.
I've stoped now, and got away very easy I know, I'm still looking for some other names for denatured alcohol and meths, so I can go look around town, because the last time I went out with scientific names for things I needed, I got alot of stares and strange looks, like I was crazy.
Written by: MillenniuM
Best thing to do is goto www.google.co.uk and type in the name of whatever you are looking for and "msds".
I don't agree. If you typed in "Ultra Pure Kerosene MSDS" you'd get the MSDS for a specific type of ultra pure kero, but probably not YOUR kind. Although the chance that there would be a large enough difference to matter is small, it is still there. You'd best ask for it when you buy it. But I'm just weird.
Written by: Urology Centre of Florida
Ok...how many petrol stations, or garden centres do you know that have the MSDS for paraffin to hand?
How many of the people working there would even know WTF a MSDS is?
These are both good points, which is why I ended up going by what I heard here. I had no way of getting the MSDS for the stuff I used because not only was the site they put on the bottle non functional, so I couldn't contact them, but it didn't have any information on the side.
But then again, I'll be damned if anyone working at the home hardware I bought it at knew what an MSDS was, let alone would be able to get me one if I asked.
I've stoped now, and got away very easy I know, I'm still looking for some other names for denatured alcohol and meths, so I can go look around town, because the last time I went out with scientific names for things I needed, I got alot of stares and strange looks, like I was crazy.
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
k...how many petrol stations, or garden centres do you know that have the MSDS for paraffin to hand?
In the US, or at least in California, a business selling a highly volatile fuel of any kind must by law have the MSDS on hand and be able to give a copy to a consumer. Maybe I take this for granted and it isn't a common law, but you might want to check it out, I believe it true for all of the US and maybe parts of europe too?
k...how many petrol stations, or garden centres do you know that have the MSDS for paraffin to hand?
In the US, or at least in California, a business selling a highly volatile fuel of any kind must by law have the MSDS on hand and be able to give a copy to a consumer. Maybe I take this for granted and it isn't a common law, but you might want to check it out, I believe it true for all of the US and maybe parts of europe too?
Pooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
Posted:
right, a page full of msds for all sorts of chemicals
(find meths and all its pseudonyms under methylated spirits)
https://www.psi-net.org/msds/
(no I don't know how to do fancy link stuff)
google can give you wierd answers when you search for the msds for your chemical because it may be included in the list of ingredients of something quite different.
Having said that, if you look up the sheet for exactly what you are using, it will tell you what you need to know. If you decide to look up the sheet for something that you reckon is quite like what you are using then you are being foolish.
Hope that link helps (and works come to think of it)
right, a page full of msds for all sorts of chemicals
(find meths and all its pseudonyms under methylated spirits)
https://www.psi-net.org/msds/
(no I don't know how to do fancy link stuff)
google can give you wierd answers when you search for the msds for your chemical because it may be included in the list of ingredients of something quite different.
Having said that, if you look up the sheet for exactly what you are using, it will tell you what you need to know. If you decide to look up the sheet for something that you reckon is quite like what you are using then you are being foolish.
Hope that link helps (and works come to think of it)
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
go to a hardware store such as home depot or lowes...they sell it by the gallon....cheaply too
Written by: ImmortalAngel
I'm still looking for some other names for denatured alcohol and meths, so I can go look around town.
go to a hardware store such as home depot or lowes...they sell it by the gallon....cheaply too
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Actually, it is an international requirement for all western countries, most of Europe and all of Australasia.
If any type of refined liquid is sold, the store MUST be able to produce an MSDS sheet on request. If not they can incurr massive fines, or even lose their operating liscense.
In America, it is also an easy way to prevent being sued!
I repeat to everyone on the site, IF THEY DON'T PRODUCE AN MSDS SHEET, DEMAND THAT THEY DO or DON'T BUY THE FUEL. I've done it a few times here, and simply got hem to ring up their supplier, who then faxed one through, as it also their suppliers obligation to give the shop an MSDS sheet if the shop asks....
Written by:
In the US, or at least in California, a business selling a highly volatile fuel of any kind must by law have the MSDS on hand and be able to give a copy to a consumer. Maybe I take this for granted and it isn't a common law, but you might want to check it out, I believe it true for all of the US and maybe parts of europe too?
Actually, it is an international requirement for all western countries, most of Europe and all of Australasia.
If any type of refined liquid is sold, the store MUST be able to produce an MSDS sheet on request. If not they can incurr massive fines, or even lose their operating liscense.
In America, it is also an easy way to prevent being sued!
I repeat to everyone on the site, IF THEY DON'T PRODUCE AN MSDS SHEET, DEMAND THAT THEY DO or DON'T BUY THE FUEL. I've done it a few times here, and simply got hem to ring up their supplier, who then faxed one through, as it also their suppliers obligation to give the shop an MSDS sheet if the shop asks....
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* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
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