Forums > Social Chat > Poi Ettiquette question

Posted: 25th Jun 2002
ok, here's what I think:

if the people just came up and asked you to use them, then its their time cause you let them.

if its a friend of yours with whom you use each others equipment, it depends on how damn good the song is. 1-5 let em spin, 6-10 take em back.

if its someone who just up and used them then take them back. they might deserve a good kick in the bum as well, cause you should always ask permission.

and always keep in mind, their your poi, so whatever you wish to do with them is up to you.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

Posted: 25th Jun 2002
nothing wrong with asking for them back....just don't be a jerk about it. Don't go up to the dude and just yell at him. Tell him the situation. I believe most people would give your fire poi back without hesistation. I know i would

Follow Wuggarooism10)Dons't cheateth on thee's significant other9) If thou seest a pig that resembles thee's friend...dont eateth the pig...perhaps it is thee's friend8) If thou talkest shit..thou is a pansy7) Don't buttith into conversations for it will be over thous head6) Dont let stupid comments go unpunished they can only leadest to thous anyurysms5) Dont lie to your friends4) Thou areest what thou arest don't change thou for anyone 3) Masturbation isnt a crime2) When a horse comes up to thou and sayest baaa thou must run!1) Be excellent to eachother

Posted: 25th Jun 2002
I dunno about them being nice and giving em back wuggaroo, some people get too high/drunk or whatever and wont give it up. I've found it to be generally not the case but some people just suck.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
Thanks.. Just checking.

I've encountered quite a phenomenon where a supposed friend felt that my asking for my poi back from her was a greedy and self-absorbed act. And warranted being told off the next day.

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
::walks into the thread and gives Fiery Flow a bif hug::

that being said ... I had a lot of thoughts about poi etiquette lately and hope you don't mind me pushing the subject a bit further.

I think your issue is definitely about the relationship you have with the person and how long ago you handed the poi. I know that urge to spin to pusic, but I'd try and get over it... or I'd go to the person and make a joke about me needing to spin to that tune like one needs to pee and openly apologizing for being so rude and handing her the poi right back after that... I don't see any reason why this person should have the right to be mean or mad at you, just do things with a smile and humour, it always works better

I was also wondering how you people feel about that :

Whe someone has just lit up in a fairly small place, don't you think it is rude to light up at the same time unless you've decided you two want to spin at teh same time. Would not the poi etiquette say that it's more respectful to wait until the other one's over ?????????

shien on
Cassandra

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
cassandra your question is one i have kinda noticed too..there was no one spinning around a bonfire at a festival one night and then i lit up...as soon as i had lit them the second time, someone else lit up...it almost felt like a competition and i wasnt sure i liked the vibe i was getting...i did introduce myself afterwards and he turned out to be pretty cool but there is a strange unspoken feeling..we did spin together later and once it had been established that we werent trying to one-up each other it was fun...

i think a smile and eye contact are all you need...cause this guy just casually walked up to the fire and lit them up and started doing his thing whereas if he had made some sort of nod or gesture as soon as he started i think it would have been less awkward...

sorry if i rambled....thats my story

excuse me, santa, have you seen half a bike?

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
Etiquette is a strange thing. It's often not manners, but ego and paranoia management.

If someone's been spinning my poi and I really want a spin then I'll ask for them back. Owner's privilege. If they haven't been spinning them for long then I'll offer them back later when I've finished. I'm a bit odd about lending my flags out as well. people spin them too fast so they tear, drop them on dirty floors, etc... so only spinners I know use them, and even then I'll ask for them back after a short while. They're my babies and I like to look after them.

In halfabike's case maybe the guy was nervous about spinning on his own or being the first spinner, because everyone notices the one lone spinner and that makes a lot of people nervous. People don't like to mess up when they know lots of people are watching them. Personally I'll mess up in front of 100 people and not really worry too much.

On a more general level if there's room for more than one person to spin then the more the merrier. 2 people spinning is often nicer to watch than one person. If you don't like it then why? Is it because you feel you're in competition? If so then you're only in the competition if you put yourself there, what everyone else thinks doesn't matter. Is it because you want to be the centre of attention? Then grow up.

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
eeeeer... Dom... are you ... eeer ... attacking me, sweetie ?????

I was jst wondering because I hear so many people with so many views on that.
True, it may be an ego problem... I'll have to think about that.

But it is very true, etiquette is mainly about ego management. So is politeness and living in society I guess. Rules to not offend others and live in good relationships... that's human nature I guess.

As far as I'm concerned, I like to watch one spinner at a time unless it is choreaographed... maybe that's linked to some attention problem ?

then there is the space issue. If it is small, I'd rather not light up before the other is finished in order to have enough space to dance.

Shine on
cass

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
Honey, I'd never attack you!!!! Not attacking anyone. And I know you've got no ego problem.!

If it's small space then fine, you just can't have multiple spinners.

But many people don't like to spin by themselves, espically with people watching. If you'd been wearing your glasses on Saturday and seen the 3 rows of people sitting, and 3 rows standing, all watching you, would you have spun on your own?

I just don't think you have to take turns spinning. You can have several people spinning and only watch one of them. The effect of several people spinning at the same time is pretty cool to watch as well.

Also I'm really, really tired and really, really busy, so not watching my words too much.

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
Tired ???? what on earth did you do last week end shrekking all night long

I understand your point, Dom and in fact you're right. If I was not near sighted or had spun with my glasses I would have had a major self-consciousness attack I know ...

I just don't want to hurt other people's ego in vain. As silly as it may be I'd rather go talk to them first / create a bond... you've seen what the atmosphere was like in France. people are not always friendly and I'd rather try and create a nice respectful atmosphere, even if they are not really nice to me at first ... and as you know, the ego of French people is at least twice the size of their .... anyway

shine on
Cassandra

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
i agree dom. if theres one spinner, then it enxourages others to light up aswell. its a case of "i dont want to go first, you go first" and also very much about not wanting to be the centre of attention. But on the other hand, a little communucation would be nice before hand too.. maybe an acknowledgement that you like their stuff, and if you dont, then why are you twirling with them? If you light up when theres other people who are alrealy lit, then you are twirling WITH them, and being a competitor is not what its about. when taking the stage with someone, whether you know them or not, a form of comunication and mutual respect between performers can make the situation much funner for the spinners and the audience.

take care

Fire... A bushmans telly

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
Kay, Dom, I totally agree with you. My poi, my rules.

For starters though, its really different in Toronto cause (like I mentioned to u b4) there's not many fire-spinners here! I get applause from all those people around me every time I spin. Its really weird, and I'm not sure that I like it cause it makes for some egos, and hence these "competitions" that seem to be based on applause.

I feel like I'm somehow trying to vindicate myself or something here.. Perhaps I am trying to get attention, but she makes it sound like I was trying to compete with her and keep all the attention for myself. This girl then told me that everyone hates me, I'm greedy + self absorbed and she no longer wants to be my friend or have anything to do with me..

Remember what I told you about the crowd being really immature/young over here? *sigh*

I wanna go back to London.. I've never had to deal with this rubbish there.

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
I've spun fire for a while now, but my first experience with a crowd *and* other poiers was just last weekend. I thought I'd toss in my thoughts...

Personally, I, like Cassandra, fine it nice to watch one person at a time. I think it's nice to be able to concentrate on what that person is doing...watch for subtelty in his/her routine, etc.

However, I must say I also quite enjoyed the spectacle of three or four fire shows going on at the same time. Like Dom said, more was indeed merrier. I think non-poiers would especially like the spectacle because while the subtlety of a one-person performance might be interesting looking, they don't have as much of an appreciation for it as would one of us.

As for joining others, if there's no room, there's just no excuse for doing so. That's rude unsafe.

I think it would be nice to give a respectful nod in the way of another performer whom you intend to join, but I found it was sometimes tricky to catch his/her eye. Sometimes you just have to start up and hope the other person realizes you're doing so in fun, and not to show him/her up. Unless the *other* person is competetive, it shouldn't be a problem. SO you can always blame it on them if they don't like it.

I certainly never felt like performing with others was a competetion. I thought that every performer's style was too different for there to be any true competetion. I mean, technically we were all out there doing the same thing, which might naturally lead to competition, but everyone know different moves, focuses on different aspects, go different speeds...as long you've done it long enough to focus on your style instead of what you can simply *do*, I don't think it feels competetive at all.

I think the audience picks up on this. I was speaking to one person afterward who thought it was neat to see everyone doing different stuff. He noticed this to the point that he was able to gave a specific example of Fireyflow's slow, precise and hypnotic movements versus my own faster, dancey style.

I might be going a bit over the top on the theoretical side here, but maybe thought processes have something to do with this. The brain works with patterns, not numbers. When there's loads of stuff going on at the same time, I think the brain tends to focus more on what makes each show different from the other and less on putting the shows in a linear order according to whatever criteria one might use to rate the performances.

Yeah, that's definitely over the top.

Whoa, this got long fast. Please excuse my ramblings, given I've only ever performed with loads of other people a few times.

Should probably get back to work now. I doubt if I'm even supposed to be on here right now...

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
Danae,
You're probably right about waitin for the other person to finish, but my poi last for 12-15 minutes and she had *just* lit up. That would be 2 songs later yes? I had let her use them once and she continued using them 4 times over the next 6 hours, I felt like I wanted a turn.

Either way, after this pathetic little drama, I'm reluctant to let anyone use my fire-poi, or my aerotechs, in Toronto, ever again. If you can't trust people to be mature then don't let them use it at all.

Never have I asked for one of MY OWN TOYS back from ANYONE in London, only to be accused of trying to steal attention.

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
Paddy,

When we did the fire-circle near the sumkidz stage I heard the crowd cheer, but I wasn't doing anything worth cheering so I looked over to see you lying on your back, doing the butterfly with this big silly grin on your face.. Put a big huge smile on mine I'll tell you.

I'm not competitive, I wouldn't have taken part in that fire-circle if I thought it was competitive at all. Its a spectacle.. Is a circus a competition?

I went slow because the handles on my poi are stretching and going fast will cause them to rip. Need new handles basically.. I did go fast at one point in the weekend by wrapping the chains around my fingers, but that cause injury.. so I stopped.

How I learned to go slow, Glass is the man responsible for that. Except he always jokes around when he's doing fire in my experience.

[ 27 June 2002, 06:27: Message edited by: FieryFlow ]

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
<--- me doing laying down bf...love that one.

A circus is definitely not a competition...just a big spectacle like you say, everyone doing their own thing and having fun. That's a great analogy.

Whatever the reason for your slow-going, fieryflow, it looks great. I learned with glowsticks on very short chains so I tend to go very fast...but now that I've seen how it looks I'd like to teach myself to go slow as well.

That's what I like about poi-ing with others...you see/learn new stuff, push your own limits, help others push theirs. Everything gets bounced around, changed slightly, incorporated into different styles. The competitive element would take so much out of that process.

Arg, back to work. Must start 12 step HOP addiction program.

Posted: 26th Jun 2002
I would ***never*** light up just because I saw someone else doing it. There is an intrusive rudeness about seeing someone spin and just dunking and lighting up next to them on many levels.
1) How do you know it is not some kind of performance? That is toe stepping of the worst kind.

2) How do you know it is not some kind of class or learning thing?

3) How do you know the person isn't going to belt you because they don't know you are there, or just don't want you there?

There just seems too many variables to random join ins. And there is ego at work here, completely. This is a tit for tat community, albeit in a friendly way. How many times have you seen spinners bust out some move or have a "signature" move? That is so that they can stand out, at least until other people figure it out. It is how we progress, but it is still competition of sorts.

I like watching one person at a time just for the enjoyment of the nuances. Different people can do the same move in such different ways. I enjoy that. I enjoy a *really well choreographed* multiple person routine, but those are hard to find. In small areas more than one fire person is just dangerous.

I don't care how bad the urge to spin is, it can wait for politeness and it isn't like the fire burns all night. You wait 5 minutes and then ask if you can join in. Done that way, how can anyone say no?

And to FieryFlow, they are yours, you have the right to use them I say, when ever you want. Just so long as you are polite. If the friend thought wanting to use your hard earned tools was selfish then she should stop to think how selfish she was trying to dominate tools she had no right to. If she wants to spin so badly, she can make/buy her own!

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK