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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:...made from pictures of the american soldiers that have died in Iraq this past year (artist unknown):


Non-Https Image Link


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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OrangeBobo
SILVER Member since Nov 2003

OrangeBobo

veteran
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada

Total posts: 1389
Posted:I've seen that before, but I can't remember where.....

~ Bobo


wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier

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Lyra
SILVER Member since Feb 2004

spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it, USA

Total posts: 314
Posted:thats a fantastic, in a really horrible way, one of the newspapers did a piece where they had all the pictures of the soliders who have died, nothing special, just lined up on the page but it was really powerful, it made their deaths more real

if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:oh that effects me so much how sad....
ubbcrying ubbcrying


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Pink...?
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There, United Kingdom

Total posts: 6140
Posted:That is really powerful...

like Lyra said, seeing photo's of those who died makes it more "real".

ubbangel


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:hmmm..... not sure if i like it.

i can appreciate the artistisc element, but it's almost like giving bush some sort of iconic status or something. and i'm really not a bush fan

hmmm..... it's still a bit early, g w bush is really not the prettiest sight early in the morning though, is he......


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:not really a Bush fan?!?!

I'm sorry, but if you ask me, stating dislike for him that mildly is a crime against all that is decent! (just to make my stance on the issue clear)

the site I found that on (topplebush.com) has some other interesting anti-bush propaganda (tho following are a little more humorous than the poignant one above).
I like really like this one:

Non-Https Image Link


and this one:

Non-Https Image Link


Ok, let's see if we can find any pro-Bush HoPpers to start flaming me now. If this doesn't trawl them, nothing will! ubbloco


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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triple wordscore


member
Location: London, Uk, in a boring town c...

Total posts: 75
Posted:First Pic : Not liking it at all, its really sad, its really in your face of all the lives that have been lost. frown

Last 2 pics : Well the Lie sweet one, Classic, liking that alot. smile


Cant Sleep Or The Clowns Will Get Me!!!!

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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:Written by: vanize

not really a Bush fan?!?!

I'm sorry, but if you ask me, stating dislike for him that mildly is a crime against all that is decent! (just to make my stance on the issue clear)




i said "i'm really not a bush fan" (try reading that with an irish accent and heavy emphasis on the really wink)

not "i'm not really a bush fan"

i think if i lost my dad or brother in iraq and saw a picture of theirs used to create some sort of iconic image of that w*nker (and an ugly w*nker at that!) i'd be highly insulted.


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:I'm with you Faberge...
I can understand the point the artist was trying to make and he/she has been successful in that (the use of so many men to create just one)- but did he/she get permission from the families?! I doubt it.

Admittedly, many families are probably behind the war effort, but for some, the loss of their loved one and the current debate surrounding the lack of WMD in Iraq may have forced them to reconsider... and once someone has died it is the ones left behind, the family, that we must consider.

It's a strong image of one man... but each and every one of those lives are just as important and I wouldn't support something that, as Faberge said, gives a kind of iconic status to Bush, nor in any way reduces the importance of these men.

Thanks for drawing our attention to it anyways

xx


Getting to the other side smile

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:interesting point.



the way I feel about that top image is this - clearly it comes from that generic software that automatically assembles a large picture from a bunch of small ones - no talent involved in the proceedure per se, and therefor nothing comes out of that program that I would generally consider art.



but in this case the person using the program has made a very interesting choice of pictures in a controvesial way. Suddenly it becomes art again, and if you ask me, a particulary good peice of art at that. The software in this case is only the media and is only a tool to create something that is far more charged than what it is usually used to make. It gets people to react and talk, and that is, to me, a clear sign of a good peice of art.



Of course some may take the stance that some inflamatory things parade around as art but really are not (like the german(?) artist who uses slaughtered pig guts to paint with). But I am not interested in that argument right now. I personally think this piece is a legitimate work of art because of the concept behind it and all the ways it can be interpreted despite the cheap method of its creation.



I want to see what people think of it. despite my statements associated with the other two pictures (which were mainly to clarify my stance on bush - didn't want anyone to think I liked him in any way shape or form), I'm not looking to start a political riot here. I'm just interested in people's opions and feelings about the mosaic. thank you for yours Faberge, and to the rest of you who have commented and will comment to.



As for being related to one of those soldiers... well, it is that sort of thing that gives the image part of its power and much of its disturbing nature.



As an American I do feel a certain kinship with the soldiers depicted, and am deeply disturbed by the way president-de-facto Bush has used their sense of duty and patriotism for the financial gain of a small eltist group of businessmen and politians. Were I a brother of one of these soldiers, this image would indeed enrage me.



But the point it makes for me is a strong one. Good men are dying so that a few exceptionally greedy may profit and satisfy their lust to be powerful. That is nothing new to the world I suppose, and we know that pretty much the case already (unless you are the type of person who objects to the Bush pez lie dispenser picture, then you might actually still think otherwise) - but now at the top of this thread it is presented in a way that hits a little deeper than the words that we have become numb to do.



I suppose someone could see this in a pro-Bush manner as well. anyone brave enough to take a swing at that? I promise not to flame if you claim "devil's advocate".



edit: actually, I was going to try to keep my nose out of the comments for a while, but I failed in that almost immediately. And sorry Faberge or the slight mis-quote! I sometimes forget that the Irish accent has a peculiar quality about it that allows for a hightened sense of irony in understatement! wink

EDITED_BY: vanize (1089890228)


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:I agree that the image could indeed have a very pro-Bush stance... so many people willing to die for their president (which is, I believe, the point Faberge made with the 'iconic' statement)...

However, I didn't realise there was a computer programme to generate such pictures - computer technology today, eh?!

In that case, I can't see it as art at all. The sole reason of its creaction was to inflame (and just because people react and talk about something does not make it art. We react and talk about the war...).

Because there was no direct human contact with this picture's creation the 'love' and depth that art must have to 'be', is not there.

Therefore, this is just propaganda. And propaganda that uses tragic deaths for its means (the families certainly won't have been consulted - I hope they never see this image as they don't deserve to be put through any more pain).

xx


Getting to the other side smile

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:i actually saw it differently. to me, the message is that Bush is the one that caused all these deaths. the war is the only thing i think that has given him any favor with the people (and that is questionable as well)....as such, the deaths of these soldiers is what "made" him, and quite literally in that picture.

/shrug

i didn't see it as giving Bush iconic status, but as showing how he callously caused all those deaths.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:I'm more interested in the definition of 'art'. I disagree with Firepoise - something created by a computer program can be art. Even if your arguement is that

Andy Warhol experiemented with 'produced' art to the extent he tried to separate himself as much as possible from the actually making of the art apart from the concept. Do you consider Andy Warhol an artist and his work art?

If you ask people what defines art you'll get a range of responses. Amongst other things a work of art is a creation that expresses a concept or provokes an emotion (even just the emotion of beauty).

So for several reasons the image is art - it is a creation that makes a statement. Possibly about one man's power of life over other men and the perceived worth of respective lives. For many Bush is deemed more important than his soldiers, so each being a small part of him is apt.

(Note how I'm trying to avoid politics here. Please don't post things just to provke a response from any proBush members - it's pointless and does more harm than good - because it does no good)


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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:random aside:

i just noticed a picture in there that looks like Saddam confused


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:thats just chef boyardee, they got him too I'm afraid frown

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:lmao!!

I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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