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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:What do people think about the term 'safety nazi'.

At the risk of being coarse I've got to say that it really gets on my t*ts.

I seem to be seeing it in a lot of posts recently (I won't give examples as it would mean quoting people who I'm sure mean no harm).

The ironic thing is that this term is not being bandied about in the old style way of having a go at people considered to be excessively 'nannying', but by people using it in the sense 'sorry to be a safety nazi, but......" and then going on to put forward an opinion that makes excellent sense and could well save someones life.

On the few occasions in the past when I saw it used against well meaning individuals, it never seemed particularly appropriate to me- it came across more as a cheap insult used by those who couldn't really articulate anything rational to support their point of view.

Now it's not been used in that way anymore (on the parts of the board I frequent anyway), it seems to me that if the well meaning people dropped it's use it could perhaps dissappear forever?

To me, if someones got a good point to make about safety, I'd prefer them to just have the confidence to say it straight- use of 'safety nazi', to me, seems to imply that in some way you're being a bit over fussy.

That's just the way I feel, my opinion, maybe others see some good to the use of the term?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:We (meaning some of the Houston, TX area spinners) use the term to refer to someone who enforces the safety regulations at our regular gatherings that are open to all. We sometimes need a safety nazi to convey the general rules of our gatherings to newcomers or if someone is doing something that we think shouldn't be done at our local venue.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:flippantly using the word 'nazi' slightly offends me anyway to be honest.
i'm not that easily offended so i won't cry over it but i don't appreciate it at all.

if other fire communities are anything like the ones i've been part of, there is no such thing as 'over-safe' - on many occasions it has been just one person smart enough to think about safety when everyone else is playing around with fire with a fairly devil-may-care-attitude.

i once made fun of someone for being more safety concious than i and although nothing went wrong that night, i still feel quite ashamed about ever having made a comment.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Yup - the "Nazi" bit of the phrase has bugged me for a while too - It puts a very negative slant on what should be a positive thing

Wouldn't "Safety Angel" be better?


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:to me, safty nazi is not the bit that annoys me, its that if its being used, most of the time, its down to ppl even joking calling another spinner it, after they have either done or said somthing on a safty concern.

i have on many occasions been called this, and other such terms, but im happy to be called safty guy, if others dont, then someone must!

(disclaimer - im not the safest all teh time, i have been pulled on stuff a few times...)

ps thanks cole for putting my head out biggrin


Step (el-nombrie)

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I agree. Safe needs to be seen as cool, not annoying. I think that the best way to do this is to make sure that the best and most respected spinners use good safety practices.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:most of the best ones i know, do, and they pull me on it when im not being safe, most of the spinners i play with are all safty consious, and if not there are normally a hand full of us at any meet who are,

and while i dont always say, hey im safty guy, im always watching, even while spinning


Step (el-nombrie)

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SpitFire
GOLD Member since Dec 2002

Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Total posts: 2723
Posted:Mind you, the first time the term was used here in Houston, it was in a negative way....because a friend and I saw a guy spinning a lit staff in the middle of a bunch of tents, and he didn't have a towel person that either of us could see.

Spinning fire close to tents is dangerous...fire close to tents is dangerous. I'm safety conscious...*shrug*

I was forward but not rude or forceful. The person said he'd worked with fire and pyrotechnics for years....but that doesn't necessarily mean accidents can't happen.

Eh. I was marked a fire nazi on the houston list. It annoyed me then, and does still, in some regards....but then...if someone's not playing with fire safely, and something goes wrong, it reflects on the entire community, not just the person who was the source of the accident.

SF


Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:<<<Charles, the energizer safety bunny bounces into the thread>>>

Great thread, Dave!

From personal experience, correctly passing on safety knowledge is 90% approach and 10% everything else.

I feel there are a number of situations where a term like safety nazi might dilute the message for those it is aimed at. However, the rest of the message and approach and the closing statements will have a much larger impact than just the safety nazi title.

It's a fine line between getting a message across and people thinking you are a know-it-all who worries over nothing.

I've used the Energizer Safety Bunny title in an attempt to break people out of their train of thought, with a silly, cute image, ansd so make them more receptive to a different point of view. I certainly don't use it to ease into a safety message, which may then be diluted too much.

Then again, some say I think too much as well...


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:I have been called a safety nazi on so many occasions I couldnt even count them. Its offensive, its upsetting and im jack of it.. This is such a sore spot with me because our fire gathering at burleigh is now being forced to close down early because the safety aspect is shocking, even though I have been talking about it until I was blue in the face!
people swear at me and tell me that Im a wanker cause I have told them about the dangers of firebreathing etc etc...
man...then when someone gets hurt the regulars at the circle get in trouble... !!! neverending story


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I agree with everyone (for once?!), I think the use of 'safety nazi' is offensive at worst, and at best puts a negative spin on what you are about to say.

Putting 'Sorry to be a safety nazi' at the beginning of a post is just silly - as the very people you are trying to educate are the ones who will turn off.

Safety is cool and important, as well as being generally a sign of professionalism and committment.

but some people cant be told. There are people in our local meet who have been asked countless times by the most experienced twirlers to follow minimum safe practices (ie wait for staff to stop dripping and carry it away from the fuel before lighting it) but dont anyway. What do you do with someone who just will not do the right thing?

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:the problem with safety is that its almost always going to be seen as uncool. take helmets, when riding pushbikes. helmets have always been seen as a very uncool thing. sure, having a crash and spending 6 weeks in ICU, then facial reconstruction surgery, then weeks of rehab is a lot kess cool, but no-one considers that. wearing seatbelts in cars is also, to a degree, seen as uncool. dying in a car crash is a hell of a lot less cool than wearing a seatbelt, but nobody cares about that, because 'it wont happen to me'. and thats the attitude that needs to change.

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:I's got three words for ya:
"LEsser evil!"


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:You can talk all you want, point out how unsafe people are being and they generally won't listen unless they have doubts themselves.

I was acting site warden at one of my club's flying sites once. There was a pilot who clearly was completely unprepared for the turbulent air, plus uninsured. I asked him to dump his canopy for a while until it calmed down and was told in no uncertain terms to "F*ck off you stupid little girl."

What can you do? People tend to regard advice as interference. It takes a general code of agreement for safety protocols to be followed, and if they chose not to be a part of it? Tough.

I guess no-one wants to see anyone with their face burned off but no doubt there'd be a few "I told you so" moments.

For the record I did smirk when that pilot cracked a rib recently.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:My to Cents...

This may be slightly off topic or at least a different slant on the same topic

Let me make my point with an example, I live with a german, The other day my Kiwi flatmate was using the dryer to get some clothes dry in a hurry, I was out. She turned to the german and said "Dont tell Aidan coz he's a power saving Nazi" It really does make me sound alot worse than I am.

The effect using that word on my german flatmate was not pleasant to say the least. I guess some people are still sensitive about that sort of thing. I honestly dont know how many germans log in here or even if they mind...

Back on topic, I agree with Charles that a new name can go along way to changing what may become a negative image (one that might affect newbies like moi who are still forming impressions, more than alot of ya'll whove been here since the dawn of the universe)

I propose 'Accident Aversion Advocate' or AAA

Charles, does your Energiser Bunny take AAA batteries ubblol


Love is the law.

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Kidda


member
Location: Birmingham

Total posts: 60
Posted:People dont like being told what to do

but sometimes they behave irresponsibly and need reminding

i only used to hear saftey nazi being used when people were trying to deflect some of the embarrasment they felt after being told they were spinning unsafe.

Its now becoming more widley used, theres nothing wrong with putting saftey first, it in no way makes you a nazi for it. we should boycot the term and make up a much more fluffy one.


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Twirly


Twirly

Shoryuken!
Location: Hexham, Newcastle, England

Total posts: 233
Posted:I like Safety Angel. Or Fire Angel. Probably Saftey Angel the most though.

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:ya i hate people who throw around the word "nazi" like it's no big thing. (i actually get the "femi-nazi" label quite a lot)

i'm a safety nut, and i won't spin with people who aren't being safe. plain and simple. if they don't have a towel or a safety or any safety precautious, i leave. i was dating someone who wasn't big on the safety thing, and i always made him do it. he finally realized why it was important to me when i was fire breathing one night and got blowback. he was so scared and upset, but i wasn't, because i had all my necessary safeties in place and barely got burned. i pointed that out to him and he's been cautious ever since.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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Mags The Jedi
GOLD Member since May 2004

Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK

Total posts: 2020
Posted:Safety = good
Nazi's (National Socialists) = Bad.

Easy to see how people get confused when you start mixing up terms. Kinda like "Fresh frozen" and that old classic, "Military Intelligence".


"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:Guess I can understand how the term 'Nazi' may offend some ppl, but to me(and my fire spinning circle, respectively), a safety nazi isn't a bad thing. A) It's just a word, B) since when is trying to save others skins a bad thing? I think all of us have been the safety nazi at some point(hopefully), and it _has_ made an impact(as in the safety nazi has been RIGHT, many times over). Again, just in my circle, the safety nazi isn't the enemy, some doting mother/father figure, or some person to be ridiculed, etc etc. It's a person who gives a damn about YOU and OTHERS. If that seems like a bad person to someone, evidently they haven't realized full the full implications or learned respect for what it is we're 'playing' with. Once you light up, play times _over_, nuff said.

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:if someone called me a safety mother, even if they meant it as an insult, i'd have no problem with it. but the word "Nazi" is just plain offensive and derogatory, even if they mean it in a nice way.

I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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Twirly


Twirly

Shoryuken!
Location: Hexham, Newcastle, England

Total posts: 233
Posted:Depends on context really. Obviously being called a Nazi by people you've never met, eg here, is more likely to seem offensive than if your mates call you it. If people have expressed unhappiness with the term "safety nazi" then its only polite of us to stop using it (unless we really feel the need to annoy people.)

However, I know my mates take absolutly no offence in being called Nazi's; they understand its ironic in context, so with them it really doesnt matter. It's taken on the chin like any derogatory comment.

In the same vien, I don't mind my mates calling me a **** ****ing **** ****er, but if any of you lot said it to me, I'd give you a stern finger shake.

In conclusion, don't call OWD a Nazi, and don't insult Mr. T.

Respect
Davy


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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:i don't think it depends on the context either way. choice of language is the biggest perpetuator of discrimination and various -isms, and using the term nazi towards someone is offensive and is comparing them to one of the most heinous groups in history. how can that not be offensive?

I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:depends on who you hang out w, I guess..We've called each other much worse, *shrug*



Takes more than words(against me) to offend me..Again, look at the context. People in th US have a tendency to call each other crack heads, does it mean anything?

EDITED_BY: musashii (1089149122)


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Twirly


Twirly

Shoryuken!
Location: Hexham, Newcastle, England

Total posts: 233
Posted:Yeah insulting people is just part of the banter with some people, with other people it isn't. If you've ever seen Southpark, I guess its a bit like that. You can insult each other all you want, no-one cares because everyone knows you don't mean it, there is no malace or disrespect intended or percieved. Online this isn't the case.

If things get personal its another matter though; if someone calls me a Nazi there is no insult, because I know I'm nothing of the sort. Being called a lanky bastard is much worse, even though in realilty I rather enjoy being a lanky bastard, whereas I really dislike fascist viewpoints.

Respec
Davy


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: nilid69




In conclusion, don't call OWD a Nazi, and don't insult Mr. T.







I just want to strees that no ones ever called me a safety nazi (not within hearing range anyway smile



And, while I think that the fact that some people have been called it and found it offensive, and posted good explanations of why they found it offensive; my main motivation for creating this thread was purely because I think the term detracts from the safety message.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: pounce

i don't think it depends on the context either way. choice of language is the biggest perpetuator of discrimination



At the risk of going off topic, I've got to say I agree fully with this, the effects of words go way deeper than most of us realise.

Some people here seem to have misunderstood that there's no complaint here about the people who are often called 'safety nazis' , they are doing a very worthwhile thing.

The issue is in the term 'safety nazi' itself- it's not appropriate when applid to those people, and it suggests that there is something negative about prioritising safety.

Lastly, my opinion is that terms like 'safety bunny' have issues of their own, I certainly don't want to be called anything of the kind.

i can see how it may apply to more 'fluffy' individuals, but lets remember that everyones different- we're not all 'fluffy'

If a term is necessary, then why not just 'safety', or 'safety person'?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:well put OWD smile

I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:I think everyone agrees that the safety person is a good thing and should be seen by everyone as such. This includes people outside your immediate circle of friends. Especially new spinners who might not know a whole lot about safety and might misinterperet event the most well meant insults and nicknames.



Standing by my original post.... The word Nazi is one whose meaning should not be forgotten, if nothing else, its an insult to the people who they affected.



OWD, you have my apologies for causing your thread to veer off topic. Much respect to you for promoting positive safety awarness on such a subtle level. I agree you 100%. The message here is that the safety person is a positive and important part a fire event and that using words that have associated negativity will ultimatley present the wrong kind of image.


Love is the law.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: ado-p



OWD, you have my apologies for causing your thread to veer off topic.



Definitly no apology needed, your point was a good slant on the question and gave it a new perspective.

My apologies to you if I gave the impression that I thought it off topic.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas

Total posts: 3899
Posted:well, I think americans are a bit easier going when it comes to the word nazi - we usually hear it in a joking way unless the tone of voice is harsh or it is coming from an angry stranger.



as Spritie mentioned, in houston the safety nazi is the one who takes the responsibility of making sure all the new people at our open-to-the-public-and-all-fire-performers monthly spin shows follow the guidlines of the event. this usually means incurring the ire of newbies who think we have no business telling them how to do their fire (even though we are the ones who have worked things out with the owner of the venue, deal with the fire marshal so they don't have to, talk to the cops whenever they show up, and are ultimately the ones who will be held responsible should things go amiss).



being safety nazi is a big resonsibilty and a respected position amongst the old-gaurd fire spinners in houston. nobody wants to be the heavy, but occasionally someone has to do it. you even get sympathy from cute women for having to be a safety nazi in houston.



now that I think about it, I think that applying the term in our case actually evolved out of the incident that Spitfire mentioned. Shortly after her being accused of being a fire safety nazi, we had a gathering with a bunch of people new to our events that did not initially respect our safety and mutual respect rules and tried to tell us to censored off and that they could do as they pleased. So I elected myself safety nazi, borrowing from the recent incident Spitfire had had (to show my solidarity for her and to show that I was mega serious about what I was saying), and gave them what for with both barrels. I even went so far as to show up at the next fire meet with an east german military jacket and jackboots on. Ok, the costume might have been excessive, but it did make the point and did get a few laughs.



Since then "safety nazi" in houston evolved into an essential and respected position (though informal and shifting to whoever is up to the task) of responsibility that no one really likes to do but someone has to - basically the person who takes the responsibility for being the hard ass when people are being unsafe and not listening to friendly requests to be safer. All the core fire performers at the gatherings will back up the fire nazi.



note that I will in no way, shape, or form use this term in Berlin where I am currently living!!!



But in texas it basically means here is a person who doesn't want to inconvienence others or make them angry, but you REALLY do have to listen to he/she says.



I totally understand that europeans don't care for the term though.



Now, if you called me a "safety repulican", I might get really angry with you! ubblol


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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