Forums > Social Discussion > Practice vs. Play
Login/Join to Participateenthusiast
384 posts
Location: West LA
384 posts
Location: West LA
Posted:
I have just read [Old link] Thread and in my opinion it is worth mentioning the difference between playing and practicing.
Playing: Having fun and doing all the moves you can do more or less good. This way you improve your flow.
Practicing: Working on the moves you cannot really do. Even more efficient when done in a structured way. Practicing normally involves hitting yourself or messing up on a regular basis and is in general less fun than playing. This way people get better quite quickly.
Why I mention it ? Most advanced players practice less and play more. If you like doing it - enjoy, no problem. But most of the time these players are the ones complaining that new spinners learn so fast and learn things that took them ages in no time. This is because the new spinners practice more and play less...
andy
I have just read [Old link] Thread and in my opinion it is worth mentioning the difference between playing and practicing.
Playing: Having fun and doing all the moves you can do more or less good. This way you improve your flow.
Practicing: Working on the moves you cannot really do. Even more efficient when done in a structured way. Practicing normally involves hitting yourself or messing up on a regular basis and is in general less fun than playing. This way people get better quite quickly.
Why I mention it ? Most advanced players practice less and play more. If you like doing it - enjoy, no problem. But most of the time these players are the ones complaining that new spinners learn so fast and learn things that took them ages in no time. This is because the new spinners practice more and play less...
andy
To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .
SILVER Member
member
172 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
member
172 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I think the newer players learn the logical order of tricks to learn early. Therefore they've got plenty to practice. They know what are basic moves and how they progress into the more difficult. In order to learn new moves, older players often had to invent their own or wait 'till they were privaledged to twirl with another who was better than themselves.
When you practice or see twirlers better than yourself, two things happen. 1 You get inspired to be as good as them. (You may also freakout and think it's too hard, and never twirl again.) 2 Closely look at what move they are doing, and learn them ASAP.
I think structure is very important. When I practice I either give myself 5 minutes on a particular drill (sequence of moves) or practice until I can hit a certain number of consecutive moves (eg ttn bth 20 times.)
I think the newer players learn the logical order of tricks to learn early. Therefore they've got plenty to practice. They know what are basic moves and how they progress into the more difficult. In order to learn new moves, older players often had to invent their own or wait 'till they were privaledged to twirl with another who was better than themselves.
When you practice or see twirlers better than yourself, two things happen. 1 You get inspired to be as good as them. (You may also freakout and think it's too hard, and never twirl again.) 2 Closely look at what move they are doing, and learn them ASAP.
I think structure is very important. When I practice I either give myself 5 minutes on a particular drill (sequence of moves) or practice until I can hit a certain number of consecutive moves (eg ttn bth 20 times.)
Geez, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Fair point about advanced spinners practising yet, but I think it's also a case of when you first learn something people do put more time and effort into it, but as time passes the novelty wears off and it isn't something that occupies all of your waking thoughts. Just most.
I play a lot more than I practice. However I've got to the stage where a lot of my play is improvisation and I get most of my new ideas and variations whilst 'playing'. Also I tend to try stuff I'm not confident I can do whilst playing - if I mess up I'll try it once more, and then continue. As you annoyingly know, I'm not a great thinker about what I'm doing, so inspiration from flow gives me more then thinking and working from first principles.
Every now and again I do remember to practice a move or concept for a solid length of time, but it's not often.
And when I comment (complain? moi?!) on people learning quickly it's because when I started I did practice for hours and still learnt very slowly. Kids these days don't know how lucky they got it...
Fair point about advanced spinners practising yet, but I think it's also a case of when you first learn something people do put more time and effort into it, but as time passes the novelty wears off and it isn't something that occupies all of your waking thoughts. Just most.
I play a lot more than I practice. However I've got to the stage where a lot of my play is improvisation and I get most of my new ideas and variations whilst 'playing'. Also I tend to try stuff I'm not confident I can do whilst playing - if I mess up I'll try it once more, and then continue. As you annoyingly know, I'm not a great thinker about what I'm doing, so inspiration from flow gives me more then thinking and working from first principles.
Every now and again I do remember to practice a move or concept for a solid length of time, but it's not often.
And when I comment (complain? moi?!) on people learning quickly it's because when I started I did practice for hours and still learnt very slowly. Kids these days don't know how lucky they got it...
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
i never practise, its all play for me
every so often after ive played i end up being able to do something i couldnt do before.
i never practise, its all play for me
every so often after ive played i end up being able to do something i couldnt do before.
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
for me: with poi its nearly all play, with juggling its nearly all practice.
i enjoy both but in very different ways so it generally depends on what mood i happen to be in.
and i guess that in turn means it depends a lot on where iam as to why i picked up the toy in the first place - if i'm at a party it'll be play, play, play but if i'm at a workshop i feel bad if i leave without at least improving something, if not learning something new entirely.
i often pick up poi just to show/teach someone a particular move and put them down again when i'm done doing that - i'm not sure where that fits in...
fire holds less and less magic for me nowdays but i'd like to know if anyone regularly 'practices' with fire rather than using fire solely for 'play' (as the words were defined above)?
i think dragon uses fire while working out new things and i know i have lit up for the sole reason of trying new tricks i have learnt with fire for the first time (does this not then become 'play'?) but have equally i have found completely new things to do with poi mid-burn...
for me: with poi its nearly all play, with juggling its nearly all practice.
i enjoy both but in very different ways so it generally depends on what mood i happen to be in.
and i guess that in turn means it depends a lot on where iam as to why i picked up the toy in the first place - if i'm at a party it'll be play, play, play but if i'm at a workshop i feel bad if i leave without at least improving something, if not learning something new entirely.
i often pick up poi just to show/teach someone a particular move and put them down again when i'm done doing that - i'm not sure where that fits in...
fire holds less and less magic for me nowdays but i'd like to know if anyone regularly 'practices' with fire rather than using fire solely for 'play' (as the words were defined above)?
i think dragon uses fire while working out new things and i know i have lit up for the sole reason of trying new tricks i have learnt with fire for the first time (does this not then become 'play'?) but have equally i have found completely new things to do with poi mid-burn...
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I think that's one of the nice things about poi... is that you can play relatively quickly before logging in hours of practice. It does lend itself to play quite easily. As opposed to juggling which you'd have to trudge through a decent amount of practice before you can play.
I think that's one of the cases that jugglers use against poi. At least that I've heard.
I think that's one of the nice things about poi... is that you can play relatively quickly before logging in hours of practice. It does lend itself to play quite easily. As opposed to juggling which you'd have to trudge through a decent amount of practice before you can play.
I think that's one of the cases that jugglers use against poi. At least that I've heard.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
enthusiast
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Posted:
One of the great things about poi IMNSHO is that you can "practice" for a while, then "play" for a while, then go back to practicing, all without ever actually stopping.
I call both those things practice, which is why they're in quotes...there's Hard Practice and Light Practice (aka drilling). As a beginner (it'll be TWO WEEKS this Thursday!) I find that mixing them together helps me over the frustration problem that has made me quit many a new thing. Also, since I'm still hitting myself doing 3 beat weaves, I obviously need quite a bit more drilling!
One of the great things about poi IMNSHO is that you can "practice" for a while, then "play" for a while, then go back to practicing, all without ever actually stopping.
I call both those things practice, which is why they're in quotes...there's Hard Practice and Light Practice (aka drilling). As a beginner (it'll be TWO WEEKS this Thursday!) I find that mixing them together helps me over the frustration problem that has made me quit many a new thing. Also, since I'm still hitting myself doing 3 beat weaves, I obviously need quite a bit more drilling!
"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations
SILVER Member
journeyman
91 posts
Location: Houston, TX, in my chair, USA
journeyman
91 posts
Location: Houston, TX, in my chair, USA
Posted:
I agree that prac and play are different. Playing is showing off what you know, practice is just that, practicing what you don't know or aren't very good at. Either way, both should be fun, because if it's not you're doing something wrong. But no matter how long you've been playing, you still gotta practice.
I agree that prac and play are different. Playing is showing off what you know, practice is just that, practicing what you don't know or aren't very good at. Either way, both should be fun, because if it's not you're doing something wrong. But no matter how long you've been playing, you still gotta practice.
May the flame on your balls not be too hot
SILVER Member
member
172 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
member
172 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I never practice whilst using fire. On one hand you shouldn't be attempting anything with fire that you can't easily do without. (Especially wraps?) On the other hand if you don't light them up enough, you don't get used to the different feel, often resulting in underperformance. There's gotta be a balance.
I never practice whilst using fire. On one hand you shouldn't be attempting anything with fire that you can't easily do without. (Especially wraps?) On the other hand if you don't light them up enough, you don't get used to the different feel, often resulting in underperformance. There's gotta be a balance.
Geez, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
SILVER Member
journeyman
91 posts
Location: Houston, TX, in my chair, USA
journeyman
91 posts
Location: Houston, TX, in my chair, USA
Posted:
I agree with you on the "you shouldn't be attempting anything with fire that you can't easily do without" bit. But I think that balance comes from both prac and play. If all you do is practice, it gets old and tedious, then it feels more like something you have to do and it looses it's fun. Fire isn't something you can do if it feels like a job. Fire has to be fun, that comes from play. When I first started blowing it was a LOT of practice unlit and then, when i got REALLY REALLY comfortable with that, lighting up. Then a LOT of practice lit. I had to learn to atomize, then atomize water for damn near 3 months before I could even think about looking at a torch, let alone blow over one. But in the beggining that was all KINDS of fun, but after a while all I was doing was practice. It started to loose it's fun. But when I finally hit that point of 'awwww [censored] it' and started playing around I remembered why I wanted to learn so bad and was willing to put up with 3 months of water and playing safety to my troop.
So yeah, that's my $.02... I'm just gonna jump off my lil box now.
I agree with you on the "you shouldn't be attempting anything with fire that you can't easily do without" bit. But I think that balance comes from both prac and play. If all you do is practice, it gets old and tedious, then it feels more like something you have to do and it looses it's fun. Fire isn't something you can do if it feels like a job. Fire has to be fun, that comes from play. When I first started blowing it was a LOT of practice unlit and then, when i got REALLY REALLY comfortable with that, lighting up. Then a LOT of practice lit. I had to learn to atomize, then atomize water for damn near 3 months before I could even think about looking at a torch, let alone blow over one. But in the beggining that was all KINDS of fun, but after a while all I was doing was practice. It started to loose it's fun. But when I finally hit that point of 'awwww [censored] it' and started playing around I remembered why I wanted to learn so bad and was willing to put up with 3 months of water and playing safety to my troop.
So yeah, that's my $.02... I'm just gonna jump off my lil box now.
May the flame on your balls not be too hot
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
for glass play=practice
same thing,
I guess thats why i love playing and practicing soo much
and my learning curve is also fastest at the moment than its ever been.
and enjoying it more than I ever have
hints towards Bene Gesserit secret training methods.
what is the difference between work and play?
What if you could enjoy housework as much as you enjoy poi spinning?
for glass play=practice
same thing,
I guess thats why i love playing and practicing soo much
and my learning curve is also fastest at the moment than its ever been.
and enjoying it more than I ever have
hints towards
Bene Gesserit secret training methods. what is the difference between work and play?
What if you could enjoy housework as much as you enjoy poi spinning?
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Naw... I think according to the above definitions, they're pretty clearly separated. I agree that just looking at the words "Practice" and "Play" I play when I practice too ... but in the context of the above definitions (which I find very useful) there's a difference. You can't do both at the same time. You can alternate if you want... but thery're not the same.
Written by: Glåss
for glass play=practice
Naw... I think according to the above definitions, they're pretty clearly separated. I agree that just looking at the words "Practice" and "Play" I play when I practice too ... but in the context of the above definitions (which I find very useful) there's a difference. You can't do both at the same time. You can alternate if you want... but thery're not the same.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
I usually start out practicing but quickly start playing once I nailed or failed at the move I was aiming for. I would say that playing does play an important role in practice though. Theres no sense in learning something if youre not gonna figure out new ways to use it.
I would also add another category to the list called Experimenting. This can be neither practicing, nor play, yet be inspired by either one. Its when something clicks in your head and you try a few things out to see if they are viable moves. Once you find out they are, you practice them to get better, then play with them to add them to your normal repetoir.
I usually start out practicing but quickly start playing once I nailed or failed at the move I was aiming for. I would say that playing does play an important role in practice though. Theres no sense in learning something if youre not gonna figure out new ways to use it.
I would also add another category to the list called Experimenting. This can be neither practicing, nor play, yet be inspired by either one. Its when something clicks in your head and you try a few things out to see if they are viable moves. Once you find out they are, you practice them to get better, then play with them to add them to your normal repetoir.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
enthusiast
384 posts
Location: West LA
384 posts
Location: West LA
Posted:
First of all - do whatever you like ! (but dont forget the possibilities)
When one reaches a certain level he/she is normally satisfied and practices less and less. Which is totally fine, but quite often people fall into routines or get bored after some time. And then practicing new stuff can become extremely boring. Especially when you are not used to hit yourself anymore (I think you know what I mean) it can happen that the practicing ends after the first smacks and you start your routines that just flow so nicely, or you practice the "easy" stuff. Or you just go on to some other toy and miss the beauty that can lie within.
Everyone should do as he likes but be aware of his own perceptions.
Hope one understands my point
Practice and Play are Different for me
So smack yourself and enjoy
andy
PS:
One could name many different categories like Clean Spinning, All moves all directions, Freestyle, Routines, Experimenting . . . . but imo it is most important to be aware of the possibilities. Poi is not just Poi, it is more !
First of all - do whatever you like ! (but dont forget the possibilities)
When one reaches a certain level he/she is normally satisfied and practices less and less. Which is totally fine, but quite often people fall into routines or get bored after some time. And then practicing new stuff can become extremely boring. Especially when you are not used to hit yourself anymore (I think you know what I mean) it can happen that the practicing ends after the first smacks and you start your routines that just flow so nicely, or you practice the "easy" stuff. Or you just go on to some other toy and miss the beauty that can lie within.
Everyone should do as he likes but be aware of his own perceptions.
Hope one understands my point
Practice and Play are Different for me
So smack yourself and enjoy
andy
PS:
Written by:
I would also add another category to the list called Experimenting
One could name many different categories like Clean Spinning, All moves all directions, Freestyle, Routines, Experimenting . . . . but imo it is most important to be aware of the possibilities. Poi is not just Poi, it is more !
To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .
SILVER Member
member
172 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
member
172 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I love hitting myself (with poi of course). You sure learn quicker when there's some form of punishment associated with mistakes. It makes mastering a move (or sequence of moves) all the more enjoyable in the long run.
I love hitting myself (with poi of course). You sure learn quicker when there's some form of punishment associated with mistakes. It makes mastering a move (or sequence of moves) all the more enjoyable in the long run.
Geez, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
GOLD Member
Fool
2,020 posts
Location: Cornwall, UK
Fool
2,020 posts
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posted:
This is kinda how it goes.
1)One of us rings the others and says "Do you wanna go to the beach",
2) We go to the beach
3)We spin, practice new moves, new parts of routines, try out crazy mad [censored] and generally fool about (practicing) until the sun goes down. We tend to use practice poi and unlit fire poi (to get the weight right).
4) Sun goes down. Light up and play. (Perform, even if there's noone there.)
5)Get stoned and fall over, singed but happy.
This is kinda how it goes.
1)One of us rings the others and says "Do you wanna go to the beach",
2) We go to the beach
3)We spin, practice new moves, new parts of routines, try out crazy mad [censored] and generally fool about (practicing) until the sun goes down. We tend to use practice poi and unlit fire poi (to get the weight right).
4) Sun goes down. Light up and play. (Perform, even if there's noone there.)
5)Get stoned and fall over, singed but happy.
"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."
Bill Hicks, February 1988
BRONZE Member
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom
Posted:
Technicals come from practice, flow (style?) comes from play. Once you've got the basic technicals, you tend to practice less and play more. The more you play, the less you concentrate, the more new technicals just seem to fall into place without the need for "practice" as you originally saw it (unless you're talking new concepts like btb, btl, etc.). Play becomes practice, and practice becomes play.
Mmmmm, pretty circles!
J
Technicals come from practice, flow (style?) comes from play. Once you've got the basic technicals, you tend to practice less and play more. The more you play, the less you concentrate, the more new technicals just seem to fall into place without the need for "practice" as you originally saw it (unless you're talking new concepts like btb, btl, etc.). Play becomes practice, and practice becomes play.
Mmmmm, pretty circles!
J
If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.
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