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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:I have just read THIS Thread and in my opinion it is worth mentioning the difference between playing and practicing.

Playing: Having fun and doing all the moves you can do more or less good. This way you improve your flow.

Practicing: Working on the moves you cannot really do. Even more efficient when done in a structured way. Practicing normally involves hitting yourself or messing up on a regular basis and is in general less fun than playing. This way people get better quite quickly.

Why I mention it ? Most advanced players practice less and play more. If you like doing it - enjoy, no problem. But most of the time these players are the ones complaining that new spinners learn so fast and learn things that took them ages in no time. This is because the new spinners practice more and play less...

wink

andy


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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ataxia
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

ataxia

member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 172
Posted:I think the newer players learn the logical order of tricks to learn early. Therefore they've got plenty to practice. They know what are basic moves and how they progress into the more difficult. In order to learn new moves, older players often had to invent their own or wait 'till they were privaledged to twirl with another who was better than themselves.
When you practice or see twirlers better than yourself, two things happen. 1 You get inspired to be as good as them. (You may also freakout and think it's too hard, and never twirl again.) 2 Closely look at what move they are doing, and learn them ASAP.
I think structure is very important. When I practice I either give myself 5 minutes on a particular drill (sequence of moves) or practice until I can hit a certain number of consecutive moves (eg ttn bth 20 times.)


Geez, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Fair point about advanced spinners practising yet, but I think it's also a case of when you first learn something people do put more time and effort into it, but as time passes the novelty wears off and it isn't something that occupies all of your waking thoughts. Just most.

I play a lot more than I practice. However I've got to the stage where a lot of my play is improvisation and I get most of my new ideas and variations whilst 'playing'. Also I tend to try stuff I'm not confident I can do whilst playing - if I mess up I'll try it once more, and then continue. As you annoyingly know, I'm not a great thinker about what I'm doing, so inspiration from flow gives me more then thinking and working from first principles.

Every now and again I do remember to practice a move or concept for a solid length of time, but it's not often.

And when I comment (complain? moi?!) on people learning quickly it's because when I started I did practice for hours and still learnt very slowly. Kids these days don't know how lucky they got it... wink


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:i never practise, its all play for me smile

every so often after ive played i end up being able to do something i couldnt do before. smile


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:for me: with poi its nearly all play, with juggling its nearly all practice.



i enjoy both but in very different ways so it generally depends on what mood i happen to be in.



and i guess that in turn means it depends a lot on where iam as to why i picked up the toy in the first place - if i'm at a party it'll be play, play, play but if i'm at a workshop i feel bad if i leave without at least improving something, if not learning something new entirely.



i often pick up poi just to show/teach someone a particular move and put them down again when i'm done doing that - i'm not sure where that fits in...



fire holds less and less magic for me nowdays but i'd like to know if anyone regularly 'practices' with fire rather than using fire solely for 'play' (as the words were defined above)?



i think dragon uses fire while working out new things and i know i have lit up for the sole reason of trying new tricks i have learnt with fire for the first time (does this not then become 'play'?) but have equally i have found completely new things to do with poi mid-burn...







juggle ubbrollsmile juggle


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think that's one of the nice things about poi... is that you can play relatively quickly before logging in hours of practice. It does lend itself to play quite easily. As opposed to juggling which you'd have to trudge through a decent amount of practice before you can play.

I think that's one of the cases that jugglers use against poi. At least that I've heard.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:One of the great things about poi IMNSHO is that you can "practice" for a while, then "play" for a while, then go back to practicing, all without ever actually stopping.

I call both those things practice, which is why they're in quotes...there's Hard Practice and Light Practice (aka drilling). As a beginner (it'll be TWO WEEKS this Thursday!) I find that mixing them together helps me over the frustration problem that has made me quit many a new thing. Also, since I'm still hitting myself doing 3 beat weaves, I obviously need quite a bit more drilling!


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Raven_WolfeRun
SILVER Member since Jun 2004

Raven_WolfeRun

journeyman
Location: Houston, TX, in my chair, USA

Total posts: 91
Posted:I agree that prac and play are different. Playing is showing off what you know, practice is just that, practicing what you don't know or aren't very good at. Either way, both should be fun, because if it's not you're doing something wrong. But no matter how long you've been playing, you still gotta practice.

May the flame on your balls not be too hot

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ataxia
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

ataxia

member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 172
Posted:I never practice whilst using fire. On one hand you shouldn't be attempting anything with fire that you can't easily do without. (Especially wraps?) On the other hand if you don't light them up enough, you don't get used to the different feel, often resulting in underperformance. There's gotta be a balance.

Geez, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

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Raven_WolfeRun
SILVER Member since Jun 2004

Raven_WolfeRun

journeyman
Location: Houston, TX, in my chair, USA

Total posts: 91
Posted:I agree with you on the "you shouldn't be attempting anything with fire that you can't easily do without" bit. But I think that balance comes from both prac and play. If all you do is practice, it gets old and tedious, then it feels more like something you have to do and it looses it's fun. Fire isn't something you can do if it feels like a job. Fire has to be fun, that comes from play. When I first started blowing it was a LOT of practice unlit and then, when i got REALLY REALLY comfortable with that, lighting up. Then a LOT of practice lit. I had to learn to atomize, then atomize water for damn near 3 months before I could even think about looking at a torch, let alone blow over one. But in the beggining that was all KINDS of fun, but after a while all I was doing was practice. It started to loose it's fun. But when I finally hit that point of 'awwww [censored] it' and started playing around I remembered why I wanted to learn so bad and was willing to put up with 3 months of water and playing safety to my troop.

So yeah, that's my $.02... I'm just gonna jump off my lil box now. soapbox


May the flame on your balls not be too hot

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:for glass play=practice
same thing,
I guess thats why i love playing and practicing soo much smile
and my learning curve is also fastest at the moment than its ever been. biggrin
and enjoying it more than I ever have smile

hints towards smile Bene Gesserit secret training methods. smile
what is the difference between work and play?
What if you could enjoy housework as much as you enjoy poi spinning?


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Glss

for glass play=practice




Naw... I think according to the above definitions, they're pretty clearly separated. I agree that just looking at the words "Practice" and "Play" I play when I practice too ... but in the context of the above definitions (which I find very useful) there's a difference. You can't do both at the same time. You can alternate if you want... but thery're not the same.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:I usually start out practicing but quickly start playing once I nailed or failed at the move I was aiming for. I would say that playing does play an important role in practice though. Theres no sense in learning something if youre not gonna figure out new ways to use it.

I would also add another category to the list called Experimenting. This can be neither practicing, nor play, yet be inspired by either one. Its when something clicks in your head and you try a few things out to see if they are viable moves. Once you find out they are, you practice them to get better, then play with them to add them to your normal repetoir.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:First of all - do whatever you like ! (but dont forget the possibilities)

When one reaches a certain level he/she is normally satisfied and practices less and less. Which is totally fine, but quite often people fall into routines or get bored after some time. And then practicing new stuff can become extremely boring. Especially when you are not used to hit yourself anymore (I think you know what I mean) it can happen that the practicing ends after the first smacks and you start your routines that just flow so nicely, or you practice the "easy" stuff. Or you just go on to some other toy and miss the beauty that can lie within.

Everyone should do as he likes but be aware of his own perceptions.

Hope one understands my point

Practice and Play are Different for me

So smack yourself and enjoy

andy

PS:
Written by:
I would also add another category to the list called Experimenting


One could name many different categories like Clean Spinning, All moves all directions, Freestyle, Routines, Experimenting . . . . but imo it is most important to be aware of the possibilities. Poi is not just Poi, it is more !


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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ataxia
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

ataxia

member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 172
Posted:I love hitting myself (with poi of course). You sure learn quicker when there's some form of punishment associated with mistakes. It makes mastering a move (or sequence of moves) all the more enjoyable in the long run.

Geez, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

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Mags The Jedi
GOLD Member since May 2004

Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK

Total posts: 2020
Posted:This is kinda how it goes.

1)One of us rings the others and says "Do you wanna go to the beach",
2) We go to the beach
3)We spin, practice new moves, new parts of routines, try out crazy mad [censored] and generally fool about (practicing) until the sun goes down. We tend to use practice poi and unlit fire poi (to get the weight right).
4) Sun goes down. Light up and play. (Perform, even if there's noone there.)
5)Get stoned and fall over, singed but happy.


"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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MrConfused
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

MrConfused

addict
Location: I wish I knew

Total posts: 529
Posted:Technicals come from practice, flow (style?) comes from play. Once you've got the basic technicals, you tend to practice less and play more. The more you play, the less you concentrate, the more new technicals just seem to fall into place without the need for "practice" as you originally saw it (unless you're talking new concepts like btb, btl, etc.). Play becomes practice, and practice becomes play.
Mmmmm, pretty circles!

J


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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