• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 200.00 credit to your HoP account.
 
Page: 123
spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:I'm going to describe the isolated version as it's probably a bit easier to learn. Doing it unisolated is a bit trickier timing-wise.

I found it easier to learn in reverse by a fair way, once I had it backwards I could get the forwards one pretty quickly. If you're finding bits of this tricky try learning to do standard 5-beat weave without actually touching your arms at any point... i.e. the twisting hand curls around the other arm without making contact.

Start in reverse 5bt. On the right hand side your right arm would normally come under the left and twist around your left wrist... instead of twisting there it the poi should loop over your left arm and go in between your arms in the buzzsaw plane - so the poi head is coming towards your face.

As soon as it's in the buzzsaw plane the left poi follows it into the buzzsaw plane. To stop them wrapping around your arms/each other you need to do a barrel roll - basically rotate your arms around each other in the same direction as the poi. The timing here is the key to getting this move - you have to start the barrel roll pretty much as soon as the first poi has started doing the buzzsaw. You rotate each of your arms through 360 degrees and at the end of it you'll be on the left hand side with your right arm on top of the left... i.e. where you'd finish a normal reverse weave of any kind. Doing the barrel roll is the "untwist" part of a 5bt weave.

This is the isolated version... because your arms are never in contact the barrel roll part means the bit in the middle is an isolated buzzsaw (in fact each poi will almost be lying on the other arm at the start of it because your left hand is to the right of your right hand and vice versa). Non-isolated is just do standard wrist-touching 5bt and you have to either rotate your hands around each other instead of doing a barrel roll or have one hand sort of "jump" over the other arm... this is the notcoleman5 variant.

Forwards is pretty much the same - on the right hand side the right hand loops over the left so that poi comes up next to your face in a fowards isolated buzzsaw, roll your arms around each other forwards to exit on the left side.

To turn clockwise you need to start the turn when you're on the left side of your body (it's 5bt so you turn to the opposite side as your poi), go into the buzzsaw turning so that the barrel roll part is the middle of the turn - once you get it smooth its completely isolated throughout the turn and you can go straight back into this move.

Also while doing the barrel roll you can stop both arms, wrap and go back the other way... you can always do this with isolated buzzsaws.

*pauses for breath*

Ok, that's it. When it's smooth it looks gorgeous, a lovely corkscrew motion across your body. In fact, I'm sure you could keep it isolated all through the move... just need to get the start and end isolated.

There are other exits if you stop the barrel roll at the right point. Going backwards I can come out into a vertical airwrap (i.e. going right to left and looking left my right hand is at 12 and my left at 6 o'clock) and going forwards I can come out via a hyperloop under my arm - stop the barrel roll when your right hand is at 9 and your left at 3 o'clock again going R->L and looking left and the hyperloop goes under your left arm. Each of these should work going the other way, but it seems a lot harder... I think because they're inside->outside rather than outside->inside.


"Moo," said the happy cow.


MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Since yer talkin about it, can anyone point me to a good description of an anti-spin weave? Havent been able to find a good one and cant for the life of me figure it out on my own. Only description I found are a few where Rev talks about how its like a TTN motion and reverse weave hand motions... I need a step by step type thing. I try doing TTN like motion in split time same direction but one poi just wraps around the arm that sticks out???

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Nevermind, found a good thread and got the answers I needed. Disregard last two posts smile

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:that anti spin is nothing...actually alot of the recent moves posted lately are nothing special....to me poi is so vast there is noway to quantify it, not in meer words, how can you convey a feeling through words...well maybe some freaks can but the average mortal cant.

I feel like alot of people are trying to express themselves and noone is listening...how can we debate movements?

To me poi is not about what the balls are doing...its a whole body, mind, spirit thang which is conveyed through BODYMOVEMENT, not the poi.

Everyone here needs to open their mind a little...were all to focused on the poi to see the full picture, ok ima go move with my poi now, maybee throw a little 5bt hypbuzz in if i feel it...



spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: arashi

oops never mind you guys are talking about "my language" 3 beat inversions
sigh... more examples of how language gets confusing around here... does this need it's own thread?
hey spiral, long time no see... somebody give c@ntus a hug for me


Hi arashi smile

Your terminology probably does make more sense because of the infinite potential "beats" in the middle of this move. And having gone back and searched through some older threads about this stuff I see you've given hints about it wink But anyway, I liked my description so there :P


"Moo," said the happy cow.


DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Arashi, if the puzzle you're talking about was the horizontal one then I know where it is.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:spiralx while doing your buzzsaw weave... do you shorten your chains alot? cause of the arm twisting, i find it necessary to bend my elbows apart & that brings the thing closer... making my chains shorter or i hit myself alot.
There any way to get around this? some special technique?
I can almost do this thing smile


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I'm not spiral but...

1) you can do a half isolation.. during the barrelroll part.. this isolations helps the string curve slightly around the arm without touching the arm..

or
2) you can lock your elbows so they are striaght and roll one wrist around the other..


and with either method..coming in at an angle so that it crosse diagonally will help with either method.. it puts it going across your chest and kinda towards the armpit..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: raghkyre

spiralx while doing your buzzsaw weave... do you shorten your chains alot? cause of the arm twisting, i find it necessary to bend my elbows apart & that brings the thing closer... making my chains shorter or i hit myself alot.
There any way to get around this? some special technique?
I can almost do this thing smile


It's definitely easier with shorter chains, but you don't need them. If you can do an isolated buzzsaw with your chains, you can do this... practise until the barrel roll part practically has each poi head resting on the other arm smile


"Moo," said the happy cow.


Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:I've done this a few times now, but the poi length is really short - almost too short to do it properly >_< if you say it can be done... thats all the inspiration i need :-)

yeah i can do the isolated buzzsaw... i actually find insterting an extra rotation into the other, easier 5 beat bsWeave (three beats outside, 2 buzzsaw). It looks really nice! cause you can be doing a slow weave, move it into buzzsaw & do four beats of buzzsaw instead of two & because your arms can help 'push' the poi around the buzzsaw, can get it going really fast before exiting slower & bigger - looks good & way harder than it is (cause your arms are barrel-rolling as well). spiffy! bounce bounce2


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:Now working on the harder version of this. What arashi would call a 5 beat inverted weave I'd imagine wink

"Moo," said the happy cow.


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:yep, as defined here, the move originally described in this post is a 3bt inverted weave.

aside:

arashi said: "JEEZ, if my description wasn't good enough, why not just clarify in the thread that started it? this may seem nitpicky to any new spinners but let me tell you it gets to you after a few years. and why rename it? by now it seems a.) disrespectful b.)inconsiderate c.) the person is trying to claim they "invented" it, and i'm not even going to go there."


well, as for clarifying, i think extra threads on specific moves in a family are healthy for hop.

it shouldn't get to you arashi, it should be flattering - you could look at it as an indication of the number of people learning it...

example: how many 5bt weave help threads are there?

this thread clarifies the most basic of the moves that include a barrel roll crossover - the 'buzzsaw weaves'.

but it does it in very different language to that used to originally describe it - the result being that more people might make an attempt at learning it now.

the original buzzsaw weave post by arashi suggested this family and gave us the fundamental move in it (and much more) but (the way i see it at least) it remains as a thread to explore the variations and size of that family - further clarification on the move described in the first post would just clog that thread up imho.


i posted in that thread about the reason i think the names of these moves are fuzzy in arashi's original thread on them.


i hope i haven't caused too much upset and i was certainly not aware that i was being a) disresectful, b) inconsiderate and i am certain that i have never claimed to 'invent' anything ('discovered alone' maybe, but not 'invent' smile).


hug juggle hug


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:I'l agree that 3bt inverted weave is probably a better name as it suggests more variations. And I didn't post this to piss anyone off... I'd read arashi's original thread but it didn't really make an awful lot of sense so I pretty much ignored it...

"Moo," said the happy cow.


Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:i have no concievable idea of how someone could do a buzzsaw weave btb.
i mean, I take my arms behind my back & there's only about 20cm of gap between my hands and back. can arashi dislocate his shoulders to spin like this btb?
i'll go away now.


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:I've seen people do buzzsaws behind the back... and they take up more room than isolated buzzsaws. Should be possible, although not for me ubbloco

"Moo," said the happy cow.


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:buzzsaw weaves btb are easier then buzzsaws btb.. imo.. y?
1) buzzsaw weaves can be done quite easiyl isolated.
2) buzzsaw weaves can come in at a slight angle
3) buzzsaws have to be lined up properly..

maybe its just me.. but I definately find it easier doing a buzzsaw weave then say turning my buzzsaw when working btb..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:OK so i've just given this a go, and my shoulders hurt, my back stings, my wrists are sore & my back it a lil bit crooked but i kindof managed to do it... kindof did it directly behind my back and slightly off to one side - so the 'buzzsaw' bit was (on the right side of body) between my body and right arm, under the armpit. then cross over to other side to repeat... my shoulders are still sore...

We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:yeah... btb bicep wraps will definately get those shoulders stretched out as much as they really need be for most anything..

as well as just stretching during the moves in general..

it may hurt now but give it a little time and you'll be doing it no problem.. wink


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:just for clarification, i've never truly been as mad as you guys think... the reason it gets to me is cause i am sick to NO END of trying to decipher text descriptions, and i figure, if i bring the family up, i can understand all the names cause you are using my language, and i won't have to waste my life staring at this frickin computer screen. that's what all my bitching is about. sometimes i wanna take a hammer to the screen, especially when the names are already there but people keep changing the language around.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:I could not agree more man, i thought the dust had setteled and everything was going real good...im not sure where it went off track. I mean people were finally starting to respect and understand other peoples terms and names, now its gone backwards, I was going to mention the origonal @3$! $37 (but i dont think anyone wants to go there again).

I think its time for people to shoot (example) 5bt buzzsaw wave wink like 20 sec and post em in the video thread, it would save a lot of confusion and mad. then u could have links to clips from threads and it would save typing out the same description over and over in different dialect's.



Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:yes EVERYONE!
GET A WEB CAM (or something else that works) & VIDEO YOUR MOVES SO WE CAN ALL SEE & not have to decipher lots of text. mad2

think that helped? bounce bounce2

anyone know some easy to use free video editing software?


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:I will try and do so when I'm around my mate who has a digital camera and put it up somewhere smile But this is what arashi calls a 3bt inverted weave, and I now prefer that notation ubblol
EDITED_BY: spiralx (1087554142)


"Moo," said the happy cow.


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i want to get the other variations up too cos i still don't get how they fit in with this move properly.



so i will try but as most will attest to - i am lame at making videos and getting them uploaded.



actually, iirc there was a video somewhere of icon doing this, hold on and i'll have a look...



edit:



yep smile



here's the link: 3bt buzzsaw weave



don't know if it still works cos they won't let me see at work but as far as i remember, this is a damn good example of the move.



juggle

EDITED_BY: coleman (1087561524)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Mr_Jedly
Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia
Member Since: 29th Jan 2004
Total posts: 195
Posted:yeah this is the video i learnt from awhile ago. but this thing isn't what is described in the original post on this thread right?
that video is of a normal weave with buzzsaw in middle(isolated)
the original post here is about a normal 5bt weave with a buzzsaw in middle(but it ends up with same amount of beats in total).

this video is the only thing that got me started on this buzzsaweave business smile


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:hmmm. i must have been mistaken then - i was pretty sure that video was of a 3bt buzzsaw weave but its been a while since i saw it...



you can tell if it the same move as decribed by spiralx as it will have 5 beats in total, 3 of which are on the outside, the other 2 are cross arm isolated buzzsaw beats used to go from one side to the other.



will watch it again over the weekend and if it isn't what i thought it was, i'll try and get a video uploaded that is smile


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:I believe what Im doing in that video is the 5 beat version.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:IcoN's video is exactly what I've described above, the 3bt inverted weave smile He doesn't go into it isolated though.

"Moo," said the happy cow.


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:icon - thats what i thought too but arashi says (with good reason) that counting the beats added to the transfer by doing the buzzsaw crossover is pointless.

like i said, it should be easy to count - just count the beats on the outside.

if there are 3bt on each side its the 3bt version described in this thread, if there are 5bt outside on each side, its the 5bt version.

both transfer using the notbarrelroll thingy and both have two beats in which we are not counting.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:Also if you go into this with your hands separated it's more obvious it's a 3bt - basically instead of the leading hand going to over the other arm on the other side, it's going over the other arm and into the buzzsaw. From there you can add as many beats as you want, but the entry is definitely "3 beat style".
EDITED_BY: spiralx (1087572316)


"Moo," said the happy cow.


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:yup exactly what I used tyo refer to as the 5bt version but now refer to as the 3bt version





and dragon.. I think what went wrong.. I showed up.. hopefulyl we'll all sit around smoke have a drink and laugh about this.. but first we all have to get together..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Fair enuf... 3 beat it is smile

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


Page: 123