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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I'm going to describe the isolated version as it's probably a bit easier to learn. Doing it unisolated is a bit trickier timing-wise.

I found it easier to learn in reverse by a fair way, once I had it backwards I could get the forwards one pretty quickly. If you're finding bits of this tricky try learning to do standard 5-beat weave without actually touching your arms at any point... i.e. the twisting hand curls around the other arm without making contact.

Start in reverse 5bt. On the right hand side your right arm would normally come under the left and twist around your left wrist... instead of twisting there it the poi should loop over your left arm and go in between your arms in the buzzsaw plane - so the poi head is coming towards your face.

As soon as it's in the buzzsaw plane the left poi follows it into the buzzsaw plane. To stop them wrapping around your arms/each other you need to do a barrel roll - basically rotate your arms around each other in the same direction as the poi. The timing here is the key to getting this move - you have to start the barrel roll pretty much as soon as the first poi has started doing the buzzsaw. You rotate each of your arms through 360 degrees and at the end of it you'll be on the left hand side with your right arm on top of the left... i.e. where you'd finish a normal reverse weave of any kind. Doing the barrel roll is the "untwist" part of a 5bt weave.

This is the isolated version... because your arms are never in contact the barrel roll part means the bit in the middle is an isolated buzzsaw (in fact each poi will almost be lying on the other arm at the start of it because your left hand is to the right of your right hand and vice versa). Non-isolated is just do standard wrist-touching 5bt and you have to either rotate your hands around each other instead of doing a barrel roll or have one hand sort of "jump" over the other arm... this is the notcoleman5 variant.

Forwards is pretty much the same - on the right hand side the right hand loops over the left so that poi comes up next to your face in a fowards isolated buzzsaw, roll your arms around each other forwards to exit on the left side.

To turn clockwise you need to start the turn when you're on the left side of your body (it's 5bt so you turn to the opposite side as your poi), go into the buzzsaw turning so that the barrel roll part is the middle of the turn - once you get it smooth its completely isolated throughout the turn and you can go straight back into this move.

Also while doing the barrel roll you can stop both arms, wrap and go back the other way... you can always do this with isolated buzzsaws.

*pauses for breath*

Ok, that's it. When it's smooth it looks gorgeous, a lovely corkscrew motion across your body. In fact, I'm sure you could keep it isolated all through the move... just need to get the start and end isolated.

There are other exits if you stop the barrel roll at the right point. Going backwards I can come out into a vertical airwrap (i.e. going right to left and looking left my right hand is at 12 and my left at 6 o'clock) and going forwards I can come out via a hyperloop under my arm - stop the barrel roll when your right hand is at 9 and your left at 3 o'clock again going R->L and looking left and the hyperloop goes under your left arm. Each of these should work going the other way, but it seems a lot harder... I think because they're inside->outside rather than outside->inside.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:nice! I can do the three bt but not 5bt yet. Working on it tho. Thanks Spi!

Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:ooooh nice!
can do the 3bt but i've not tried the 5bt yet.
does it look very nice? or just one of those things that is really hard but looks about average?


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:naaaah. it look great! esp when you get those isolations going as well.

one of my fav. moves combo is with 5 bt weave to other side, tthen weave isolation, to buzzsaw isolation in middle, weave isolation to other side, then 5bt weave across the body again.

looks uber tricky and uber trippy to audience!


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:awwwwwww now i'm going to go & practice this & not get to sleep for the next 30 mins til my arms are overworked & full of painful lactic acid.
bounce heh, i love that lil guy


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:lol... I never learned the 3bt version.. guess at somepoint I should go back to basics..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:raghkyre - it looks lovely! Especially once you can turn around into and out of it smile

Rev - finally got the foward 3bt buzzsaw after learning this, it's definitely tricker IMO. Reverse still isn't there yet...


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:Written by: spiralx
Forwards is pretty much the same - on the right hand side the right hand loops over the left so that poi comes up next to your face



... usually hits me in the chin spank

or failing that we get a hyperloop cos i untwist my arms to soon.

its definetly harder than the 3bt one :P


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Yeah I got that a couple of times... hence saying the reverse is easier wink

But I definitely found the 3bt harder!


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:with the reverse its allright if i manage to successfull aim my poi into the gap between my arms without hitting my arms, which dosnt happen as much as it should. need to practise this more smile

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:isnt the 3bt just the switching of 1beat out of the buzzsaw weave? basically jsut changing the lead hand for the buzzsaw weave?

that much harder?!?


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:3bt buzzsaw weave (by hop's definition of beats - i.e. total beats before the pattern repeats) is very simple:

in the normal 3bt weave each arm spins 2 circles crossed over your body (e.g. right hand spins 2 circles on left hand side) and 1 circle on the arm's natural side (right arm spins 1 circle on right hand side).

in the 3bt buzzsaw weave, you replace the natural side circle with a buzzsaw circle.

the reason its slightly tricky is because there is an arm in the way when you want to spin the buzzsaw beat.

when teaching the forwards 3bt buzzsaw weave, i usually mention the phrase "over, under, through".


absolutely wicked description mr x, except the notcoleman5 is still not the one you describe above - its far easier than that.

there is only one buzzsaw beat on each side and it is before the crossover, not during it. hug


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: coleman
absolutely wicked description mr x, except the notcoleman5 is still not the one you describe above - its far easier than that.

there is only one buzzsaw beat on each side and it is before the crossover, not during it. hug


Hummm... you shall have to show me again. Now that I can do this one I might be able to work exactly what you're doing ubbrollsmile


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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borismcnorris


borismcnorris

professional pedant
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 137
Posted:Just to get this straight in my head...

If i'm doing a normal 3 beat weave with added buzzsaw bits in the middle (in the way described above), is that a 5 bt buzzsaw weave? I had been assuming that was the 3 beat version and that 5 beat would be based on a 5 beat weave confused

I had always thought I understood these things fairly well too!! ubblol weavesmiley


A warrior always returns to the fray. He never does so out of stubbornness, but because he has noticed a change in the weather - Paulo Coelho

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i blame arashi wink

our man from austin counts buzzsaw weaves only by the number of beats spun outside the arms (i.e. don't count the buzzsaw beats).

i count them the same as any other poi pattern - number of beats spun before pattern repeats.


borris - if you learn the 3bt version i describe above, you will see the fundamental difference.
it feels much more like a regular 3bt weave and has 3 beats in it smile
the 5bt version spiralx has described here has 5bts in it and feels a bit like a half isloated 5bt weave.
spin a 5bt weave without your wrists touching and you should see why they're so similar - one crosses over outside the arms, the other inside.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:hmmmm ok then so Mr Coleman, you say your three beat buzzsaw for RHand has 2 beats on the Left side, 1 beat in buzzsaw, while the LHand has 2 beats on right side, with 1 beat in buzzsaw. right?
Cause i was trying a 3 bt version & i managed to do a 3 bt buzzsaw, but with 2 beats in buzzsaw and 1 on the opposite side,
as opposed to 1 beat in buzzsaw, with 2 beats on oposite side.
so this means there's 2 different versions of the 3bt buzzsaw?

The bs weave i can do already has 3 beats on thr RHS, 2 beats in middle, 3 beats on LHS, 2 beats in middle. I suppose this is a 5 beat buzzsaw then, but a different version to the one spiralx explains above?

hope u understand all that !?!


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i think the 5bt buzzsaw weave spiralx descibes above is the 3 bts outside 2bts inside version.

i haven't tried your version of the 3bt yet.
unless you are just spinning a regular buzzsaw with a beat outside every one in three, it sounds as if there are 2 versions...

will check it out and get back to you on monday smile

i know for a fact that there at least 2 versions of the 5 bt weave that include buzzsaw beats.

i think a defining point is the fact that the buzzsaw beats have to be spun around the other arm, otherwise you just be spinning a normal buzzsaw which you can obviously spin for as long as you like to add extra beats to any pattern.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: coleman

i think the 5bt buzzsaw weave spiralx descibes above is the 3 bts outside 2bts inside version.


I think so, yes smile Basically the untwist part is done in the buzzsaw.

Written by: coleman
i know for a fact that there at least 2 versions of the 5 bt weave that include buzzsaw beats.

i think a defining point is the fact that the buzzsaw beats have to be spun around the other arm, otherwise you just be spinning a normal buzzsaw which you can obviously spin for as long as you like to add extra beats to any pattern.


While playing with this I think I might've got a different version going a couple of times... but I thought I should stick with just learning the one at the time wink Will have a play this weekend though.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:my system isn;t as confusing, really... keep in mind i had to translate not just the beat count philosophy, but the naming as well, for me the notcoleman5 is a 5 beat non crossed inverted weave, simply a "buzzsaw inside of a 5 beat, still an inversion of course... the original (isolating) 5 beat inverted weave i posted in the inverted weaves thread was a 5 beat "crossed arm" inversion. but i _name_ them after the originating weave cause there are so many ways to add in beats before you repeat the pattern, especially when you add other techniques like isolations and insides, when you are spinning in more helical patterns... so i just go by the entrance... (but that is merely for reference and simplicity, of course you could count the beats before the pattern repeats and still be correct, it'll just have less clarity in this awful text based world unless you already know what we are tlaking about) moreso because the only time i would be caring about a name is in writing down choreography for shows and teaching, both of which you really just need to know what you were doing to get there. and the 4+ beats have different entrances than say, the three beat entrances, the chains are, relative to each other, positioned differently, and the techniques vary slightly.
still waiting for more of them to pop up here... come on guys, how about something new, not regurgitation? anybody solve my puzzle yet?[prod prod]


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:(okay i haven't done an 5 beat inverted weave in ages but i'll try)
coleman (hail oh quoteable one) Written by:
think a defining point is the fact that the buzzsaw beats have to be spun around the other arm, otherwise you just be spinning a normal buzzsaw which you can obviously spin for as long as you like to add extra beats to any pattern.



this is true, but you can spin the crossed arm isolated inversion for infinite beats too BTW. this is the key point in my choice of terminology, you see?

I'm blown away that some of you are only doing the 5 beat inverted weaves and not the three... much less teaching them as easier... that's like saying "i only spin and teach 7 beat weaves" don't you find 1/3 and 1/4 time isolations a bit harder to teach than straight up follow time with a slight isolation??? eek confused


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:oops never mind you guys are talking about "my language" 3 beat inversions

sigh... more examples of how language gets confusing around here... does this need it's own thread?

hey spiral, long time no see... somebody give c@ntus a hug for me


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:hmm well i think you'd need more than 1 thread about language in here >_<
Written by: coleman

i haven't tried your version of the 3bt yet.
unless you are just spinning a regular buzzsaw with a beat outside every one in three, it sounds as if there are 2 versions...



What I did was that, a regular buzzsaw with a beat outside every one in three, but you get this 'crossing over' happening & your arms have to do a barrel roll to not get tangled.

Ummmm inverted weave? dammnit I don't think i've learnt this one yet.. or at least the name that it refers to. (where'd that search button go?)
Written by: arashi

come on guys, how about something new, not regurgitation? anybody solve my puzzle yet?[prod prod]



for me these different types of buzzsaw weaves ARE new ubbidea
What puzzle? [prod prod] tell me the riddle!
or is my poi theory not advanced enough yet? frown


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:ok i think i can figure these out now - got enough understanding to find what i'm looking for in searches.



oh btw arashi, how is it that you seem to know all there is to know about poi?

all threads about difficult moves you appear & say "and when you can do that...try doing THIS...with ease cool" wow clap clap clap clap clap clap clap

EDITED_BY: raghkyre (1087015830)


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:ha ha man, i wish. still have a long way to go. i need a dimensional time chamber. i'm still an intermediate. the bar is just way higher than many of you can imagine.

2 possible reasons why i usually have stuff to say on these threads.

1. lots and lots of time spent spinning on acid for hours on end when i should have been talking to girls. now i encourage spinners to put down the chains and go kiss a cutie... they are way more fun, i swear!
2. i'm one of the few "professionals" out there who comes on here occasionally to share complex stuff, so there's a lot on the boards lately that was borne either directly or indirectly (inspired by hints) of my spinning style so i pretty much know what's gonna happen on the boards before it gets written... which of course makes it seem like i know a lot and who am i to shatter such aggrandizing illusions? meditate rolleyes i was stoked when poipoipoi came around cause he seemed pretty badass but where is he? scared off i suppose

o how about 3. the true one. i've been listening to my chains for a long time. it's a disease


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:My guess is that poipoipoi is chillin at home on Spherculism.com. Apparently he has no love for us HoPers, he just came to advertise a bit smile

P.S. - This thread got mighty confusing in the last 10 posts so Im gonna not come back wink


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:frown see i don't even have to be trying to explain anything and i confuse people footinmouth
If you see something i write that is confusing, reread it, this time with the mindset; "this dork is trying to be funny again... geez, now what?"
[still trying to find the thread with the puzzle in it, that's why i'm posting so much right now. friggin computer locks up every time i run a search]


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:ubblol

tehee.

not been following the thread but it's making me laugh(thanks arashi)

incidentally i'm one of the ones who learnt 5 beat insides(my notcoleman5) first and finds them easier than the three(ar at least did when i was learning them), at least until you start to do notcoleman5fountains with beats 1, 3 and 5 inside cause thats where the fountain puts them....

tumdetumdedumdedum.
*grins inanely at the pleasure of spinning again after sooooo long full of injury*

and for my second incidentally, i find it really annoying that i am insured against personal injury to the tune of many millions, but if i calim i'll [censored] my own company over. damn insurance.

hugs and smiles
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:Written by: arashi

I'm blown away that some of you are only doing the 5 beat inverted weaves and not the three... much less teaching them as easier... that's like saying "i only spin and teach 7 beat weaves" don't you find 1/3 and 1/4 time isolations a bit harder to teach than straight up follow time with a slight isolation??? eek confused


This'd be due to a lack of a teaching guide here...
There's noone to say what is easiest to learn & should be learnt first, what is hardest & should be learnt after you can do all 'these' moves.
apart from the HoP lessons that is.
so people just login & see something they like & go "OOOooooohhhhh I wanna learn that!" so I do! I mean they..... they do.....
bugga i have so much to learn still... ubbloco


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:1) hey spherculism is the censored.. I look at it like this... HoP holds a special place for me... its where I learned... so I always come back.. BUT.. I really can't get the in-depth non-futile discussions going here.. by that I mean... people REALLY Break things down and other spinnners don't get offended by those kinds of analysis as often happens here.. nor does it digress from that in-depthness.. gives you a place to geek out on poi so that you CAN spend all the rest of the time kissing the hotties.. lol.. (this is not a HoP bash.. just a pointing of differences.. felt the need to clarify)



2) whats this puzzle arashi? I'm sure I've heard it but you know me... side effect include: short term and potentially long term memory loss..



3) about the only thing I dont remember arashi coming back with an "oh yeah" to was perhaps the antispin stuff.. which I PROMISE will change the way you look at spinning.. at least the antispin weave changed my outlook on how I thought a weave worked..



but then again.. I'm reaching that point teaching people where I'm finding the ungodly useful secrets of some basic moves.. and little things that show me how in the end.. they ARE alt the same move.. LMMFAO... but that's probably me being all cryptic again.. must be too early in the morning..



edit: oh yeah and ps... the buzzsaw weave contains one of those interrelated,ungodly useful keys to poi... most definately one of the primers I teach.. really should learn all the versions.. oh and that antispin, runs along some of the same themes... liek I said.. all interrelated..f'n weird I dare say..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1087051492)


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:1. if i contributed in any way to the "futile conversations" here's why. i've said this before but i was really pissy about it... hopefully this time you will go like this when you read thisubbidea ubbidea
it's really frustrating when i try to start a thread about something, and rather than stay on that thread, people start their own threads where nothing has happedned except they changed the name of the move and rewrote the same description in their own language. i've spent countless hours trying to figure out moves people were writing about only to realise, whoah, this is the move i posted about ages ago, and here i am spending an hour trying to read and understand this person's language cause they started a thread about a cool move! let me tell you, after so many times, it's just like, "JEEZ, if my description wasn't good enough, why not just clarify in the thread that started it? this may seem nitpicky to any new spinners but let me tell you it gets to you after a few years. and why rename it? by now it seems a.) disrespectful b.)inconsiderate c.) the person is trying to claim they "invented" it, and i'm not even going to go there.

i try to bring new families in in a manner that encourages a solid learning path, look at inverted weaves! i started a thread, with steps x through y, and was going to expound from there, and it spawned 18 threads about the same thing, and rather than teach on one thread, there's 18 different descriptions and i have to just keep hinting and correcting. it's just too inefficient, life got too short for that 2 years ago. my inverted weaves thread has less posts than this thread! and if you really read that post there's a bazilllion different weaves i lay out for you. i'm sure sperculism is nice and easy, cause there's way less people and they are all being taught by the moderators. i just went there last night for the first time and looked and spent over an hour and a half trying to understand rev's description of inverted weaves. after awhile, i just threw my hands up and said, wait, i know all these moves, why am i bothering? i missed out on a lot of practice last night trying to figure out a move i taught you! just so i could translate it back to the language i taught it to you in! do you see how i could be excluded? and how if you just kept using the language i taught you in, or AT LEAST alluded to it so i had it as a reference, i would probably be helping you a lot more? now multiply that by 50 and you have hop. and add to that people calling you an elitist cause you're "not sharing all your good moves" and "being cryptic"

2. the search engine here sucks. fuggif i'm gonna keep trying. wait for the dvd.

3. i don't yet see what the big deal is. if i read you correctly you are doing ttn parallel weaves. aside from a few more ways to enter inverted aiwraps, training for parallel weave waistwraps, and not tangling your parallel weaves, what's the beef? please convert me! tell me something about them i don't know and blow my mind! parallel weaves seem boring to me. i spend my chain parctice time working on performance stuff, and i haven't found anything too useful in them. but i'm open to suggestions...


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:***this post will take a diversion that is relevent to topic please bare with the tangent**



wow.. I wasnt being pissy.. I just think things tend to get sidetracked here.. and a lot of times -I- find it difficult.. wasn't saying anything bad about anyone here or nothing..





I share everything as is.. I even go as far to make myself explicit complete with diagrams.. so any confusion in revs post in past few months are rather not my problem.. I don't hoard anything.. everything I know is listed on spherc. and all here too.. its just alas most people don't understand me..





the only thing I leanred is that you can do a split time same direction TTN... this TTN ties together both ways of weaving normal and antispin in the same manner that a TTN/butterfly has two different versions of each direction (ie two forward versions and two reverse versions so to speak..) the antispin is basically the other half of a weave... for instance you can twist up a 5bt weave as per normal and then run and antispin path (the poi continues the direction it was going but the hand motions are as a reverse weave.. ) this sounds more unrealistic then it is.. but basically by spinning on the inswing like a antispin flower (or like this parallel weave) you can make the poi pass back around the way they came (though not in the same point in their poi orbit (as in they are inswing vs the outswing..) thus you can untwist and then twist back up.. the motions are like a ttn.. pretty dead on.. and thepoi move like a 4bt ttn.. only spinningsplit time same direction... thus is practically unheard of..



now this antispin thing.. its nothing like what you think it might be.. its rather easy... and that's not just me sounding pompous.. its very much like a buzzsaw weave ... like when you talked about the buzzsaw weave.. you said something about being able to get extra beats by passing under the arm instead of outside.. I don't know exactly because I read itlong ago.. sorry mate I don't memorize things.. but you refered to extra beats in the buzzsaw weave..



anyway.. point is.. that motion is pbasically the root of part of the antispin weave...

when you wtiwst up the 5bt forward weaveon the left side.. to antispin you have to roll it back under the left arm.. which rollson the inswing thus near the left underarm and then comes back over the left amr to the outside.. thats a way to add beats to a buzzsaw weave that if I rememebr correctly you discussed at one time.,.. this is also a 3bt antispin if you lead with the left to the right side.. but liek I said it looks like a buzzsaw weave... and can be added to a buzzsaw weave easily... (for the record.. nix had a thread on this long ago.. so none of this is new.. ) in fact the only thing might be new in any of this is the same direction TTN which I believepoibox has mentioned.. and the 5bt antispin weave which Nx hinted at if not outright said when he said something to the effect of "then I got to go abck and relearn all my moves antispin"







I don't know if you realized that that motion was the same as a reverse weave handmotion with forward spinning poi.. I'm not even 100% positive that is what you meant by extra beats under the arm.. but it was how I understanded your words..



now.. I'm nto going to continue the run of the tangents.. I made my relevent point.. anything further on this antispin or same direction ttn.. start a new thread please.. I haven't started one because I've been working on it for about a week now.. and a lot of these discoveries have been recent.. I don't want to present anything until I know moreabout it..because well.. I am trying not to be cryptic.



anyway... itsnot like anyone that wants to can't contactme.. I'm just waiting until I can link to video because even with perfect text.. the idea tends to be difficult to picuter...



*goes back to his hoarding still wondering about the puzzle business.. *

EDITED_BY: Rev (1087102212)


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