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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Alright guys, I have a dilemma and would like advice smile.



I have currently been training up my doubles skills with a pair of well weighted (heavy as possible) 90cm long practise staffs, with the intention of converting them into doubles when I get around to buying the wicks after exams. I've already got the dowel and aluminium tube obviously, but my dilemma is this:



I would much prefer 4 inch wicks. So I'm a bit unsure.

a) 4inch wicks might be way too much to start off with, with regards to burning myself etc, seeing as ive only ever played with doubles on fire when theyve been full length.

b) 4 inch wicks in combination with shorter than usual typical double staves is even riskier.



I'm am pretty confident my skills at twirling are good enough to deal with the 4 inch wicks, but I am considerring possibly just getting some more piping and dowel and contructing staves that are just a little bit longer. I just feel that 2 or 2.5 wicks wouldnt feel right, as I am so used to 4 inches and their fury smile.



So all you doubles pros, any tips or opinions would be muchly appreciated.



- Klaymen



[EDIT: Where I got my materials from:



This is for Melbourne, Victoria.



Chrome steel/Aluminium tubing + dowel + screws + washers:



Tait Timber & Hardware Pty. Ltd.

15 Weir Street, Glen Iris, 3146

Telephone (03) 9822 3381

www.taittimber.com.au



Has perfect steel here, and sells dowel too (its too bad the dowel is just a little thinner than the inside of the tube, but oh well =/.) Also, this is walking distance from Glen Iris station, on the Glen Waverley train line from the City.



WICKING:



Good ole' juggleart, I don't know if you can get it anywhere else :P.

www.juggleart.com . ]


EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1089214208)


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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:very true, I predrilled this last time with just a regular drill bit, slightly smaller than the screw, and it made a huge difference. Saved me using the metal self drilling screws too.

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Yep I ended up putting dowel all the way through. Unfortunately I find it doesn't much help to stop the whole unit bending, apparently the force of the steel warping is more than the dowel can resist =/. But the bending isn't that bad, easy to bend back into shape. And I don't think the dowel adds much weight either. Also, since the dowel I got was a tiny bit thinner than the tubing, sometimes when the staff hits something it makes a twang noise!

But oh well.

Yeah I heard about the pre-drill method, even using the drill on a reverse setting so you can sort of 'edge' a hole through the kevlar to begin with, so you don't fray it at all when you drill proper. Oh wait, I guess I DO use the pre-drill method, in that, we drill the hole first then screw in 2nd, and not with self steel tapping screws or anything.

Tape works a real treat, though Mo-seph may be right about just using heaps of masking tape instead cos its more paperry. Though I'm convinced it wouldnt be as easy to compact the wick as well, since masking tape doesn't stretch.

- Klaymen


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I was just thinking about staff weight and moments of inertia etc (instead of doing work). Mo-seph said: I think heaviness is good for contact, but you don't really need weights on the end.

The weight helps you to feel the staff on your body, and makes it slower.

I think no, you don't 'really' need weights on the ends, but it does make the staff act as if it were longer... so the contact moves get easier. The more weight on the ends the longer the staff virtually becomes...

I need to dig out my physics text books. eek


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:If you have a staff with a fixed weight, then the further toward the ends you distribute the mass, the higher the moment of intertia is, which gives you more angular momentum at a given speed. I think it's the moment of inertia which affects how well contact moves work, as the larger it is the more the staff will keep going.

So you could have a lighter staff which worked similarly to a heavier staff because the weight was more distributed towards the ends. Not sure about all this, though - it might be that the weight to moment of intertia *ratio* is important too...


monkeys ate my brain

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:we're both geeks! Yay!

Yes I think you're right mo-seph. But I need an easier way to visualise moments of inertia in my poor minion-monkey-brain.

Weight plays a big role in feeling contact moves on your body, but the 'feel' of a staff could indeed depend on some strange ratio.

Plus: 2 x 1 unit training is better than 1 X 2 unit training. (ie train with more breaks!)

And if you want to learn things implicitly, with no explicit knowledge of how you do them, try making up a number task and doing it while you learn something. Like reciting the fibonacci numbers, and counting in primes.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:i pre-drill the wrapped wick with a handscrew, and it makes a narrow but thorough tunnel to the metal. 'tis wide enough to drill with a screw after that.
the lesson abour srewing and staff completely escapes me at this point, but if you have the answer, please write it ont hte back of a postcard and tape it to a passing wind marked 'smelly'


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:ey, another good use for duct tape, wrap it around the dowel to make it seat solidly inside your tubing. No need to wrap the _entire_ dowel, I used one wrap every 3 inches or so. I used aluminum tubing instead of steel, but mine has a nice hum when you catch it. I got it right on the doubles I made, but a couple of the other staffs don't have that hum, so they don't really feel as solid.

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:That's a good idea musashii, I wish I had done that, darn.

With regards to contact staff, besides maximising moment of inertia, my only other assumption would be the longer the better, simply because you can imagine as the staff gets shorter, any shift from the exact centre of the staff has a greater % effect at unbalancing the smaller the staff is. Ie, imagine doing a roll around the arm or elbow, you won't touch the staff in the exact centre after doing this move.

This isn't THAT important though, just another thing to think about. I mean, I've tried a bit of contact with my 1m staffs, and they're just a bit short.

- Klaymen


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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:heh, my contact staff was 6ft long. Makes any move possible, but I see Knox, Meg(MCP), or BlooCat pulling the same moves off with 5(or less) footers(or so it seems) biggrin All the same, on fire 5-6 feet seems to be the norm for contact..Long n heavy eh..

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:yeah thats like 1.5 m, huuuuge :P. For me atleast. My mate has a 1.6m one that is just so way huge and heavy, its really fun to twirl slow, I really should get some contact skills happening, they look so smooth. His staff would be perfect for it.

- Klay-smooth


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duballstar
duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 2216
Posted:i've always pre-drilled my wicks but mcp that idea about using a pin first is geenious! ubbidea i'd always just kept trying and re-trying with a screw till i finally got it right and it was usually still a little bit wonky anyway...

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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