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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Alright guys, I have a dilemma and would like advice smile.



I have currently been training up my doubles skills with a pair of well weighted (heavy as possible) 90cm long practise staffs, with the intention of converting them into doubles when I get around to buying the wicks after exams. I've already got the dowel and aluminium tube obviously, but my dilemma is this:



I would much prefer 4 inch wicks. So I'm a bit unsure.

a) 4inch wicks might be way too much to start off with, with regards to burning myself etc, seeing as ive only ever played with doubles on fire when theyve been full length.

b) 4 inch wicks in combination with shorter than usual typical double staves is even riskier.



I'm am pretty confident my skills at twirling are good enough to deal with the 4 inch wicks, but I am considerring possibly just getting some more piping and dowel and contructing staves that are just a little bit longer. I just feel that 2 or 2.5 wicks wouldnt feel right, as I am so used to 4 inches and their fury smile.



So all you doubles pros, any tips or opinions would be muchly appreciated.



- Klaymen



[EDIT: Where I got my materials from:



This is for Melbourne, Victoria.



Chrome steel/Aluminium tubing + dowel + screws + washers:



Tait Timber & Hardware Pty. Ltd.

15 Weir Street, Glen Iris, 3146

Telephone (03) 9822 3381

www.taittimber.com.au



Has perfect steel here, and sells dowel too (its too bad the dowel is just a little thinner than the inside of the tube, but oh well =/.) Also, this is walking distance from Glen Iris station, on the Glen Waverley train line from the City.



WICKING:



Good ole' juggleart, I don't know if you can get it anywhere else :P.

www.juggleart.com . ]


EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1089214208)


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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Ahoy mateys. I was just wonderring, I think I remember reading somewhere you can sorta wrap your wicks with a bit of wire to keep them better fastened, though I couldn't find anything when I searched. Is this true? How do I got about doing it?

Also, I was wonderring what i should do for my doubles' grips, as I was gonna make them fluffy like my last staff, except because the staff is so small I fear it would burn/melt. Would bike/tennis grip be better? I think I already asked this but I don't remember getting a deciding reply smile. So what do the HOP resident double-staffers use for grip?

thanks again-a,

- Klaymen


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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:Hey Klaymen

Sounds to me as tho your having fun making stix - there are so many ways you can go as i see youve found out by the HOP lot smile

Personally i have recently made two 120cm staffs from steel tube with a wooden dowel for fixing through and to help stop the bendz - works a treat biggrin

As for fixing wix with wire - i used to do this simply to hold the wix together - firstly i bolted the wix to the staff but there where peices of kevlar still "flapping" about so i used locking wire to twis round the top and bottom of the wick head - spend a bit of time over it and you can get a real neat job, twist it tight with pliers then snip off any excess and tuck any sharp endz into the wick biggrin

Now though i suggest using the kevlar thread sold in the shop here - oh but you may need help with sewing (i know i did wink)

As for grip since the day i began making my own kit i have found tennis handle grip ideal for a handle along with the innertube of a cycle tyre - but the latest thing i came across has heat shrink rubber which you can buy in many colours biggrin

Sorry i havnt got a link for ya - but you should find it easily enuf on google....

Hope some of that is of use,

Eezy weavesmiley


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:hey Klaymen,

Ive always used tennis grips - but I think I might use the heat shrink rubber next time, to make a lower profile grip.

Josh


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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:thanks guys smile. Yeah I am having fun making them, I finished the doubles a few nights ago, apart from the grips, 101cm each steel tubing and dowel through em, with 4 inch wicks smile. My first burn with them was SCARY. Because a) quite heavy when used as a pair, they are like a kilo each! (single twirl with one of them feels REALLY nice), b) so much fire, but i'll get used to that, and c) I have an afro. I'm going to have to buy a funny hat I think, I've burned my afro few times but I fear it could happen a lot more now with the short doubles, especially doing the poi-windmill move smile.



For temporary handles I just used pvc tape, which works fine, and I think I will move up to bike tape or tennis grip tape soon. Thanks again.



- Klaymen


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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:yaay. first PROPER burn with the doubles was tonight, and it was bloody bloody awesome :P. a tiny bit too long but oh well, mega-stretch for those buzz saw moves.

- Klaymen


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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:you probly want to take about 10cm off them smile

I reckon 80-90cm is optimal for 4inch wick, but you have to keep them moving smile

Josh


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Psi
boing
Location: Body in Seattle - soul still i...
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 529
Posted:Arghh! broke one of my doubles at glasto ! (snapped in half when trying to get rid of bend .. rolleyes ) .. so will be making a new pair smile probably exact replicas of the old pair ubblove, 150cm long, 1.6cm thick, chrome steel piping, dowels at the ends only (about 30 cm each end) , 4"-5" wicking, fair amount of tennis grip ... they're not too heavy, but heavy enought for contact and i personally prefer thinner sticks than average..

Mike


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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:hmm if you had steal tube at one inch thick, yes they would be too heavy!

i prefer longr stick, so mine are currently 5ft and loving it..

one inch crome plated alu, with 4inch heads and weighted!

jobs a goodun! biggrin


Step (el-nombrie)

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Is it really hard to shorten staffs Josh? =/, after all that work, and also its SO annoying, cos where I bought the steel tubing they were selling 90cm lengths, and the next one up was like, 1.3m or somehing, so ofcourse I bought the long ones and chopped them down. Ahh well, I think I'll just stick with the ones I have now and think about it later. If it's really easy to shorten them I will though.

- Klaymen


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:You can never have too many staffs. smile

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:hehe yeah I know DSS, but it's a cashflow problem :P. I'll probably make new staffs later one, but stick with these for now. Hell I know my mates are interested in doubles, so after a while maybe I'll sell them these cheaply (one of my mates is a tall mofo, he probably has longer arms and so 1m would probably be perfect :P).

One queston, to Josh. I was just having a peep at eiffel strobing and I was wonderring, at 1:54, the parallel behind the back fig8 thing, are you doing 2 beats or 3? It's really hard to tell from the video, but you make it look like 3, in which case how the hell are you doing it? :P. I can only do 2beats. I guess I'll have a bit more of a play. PS you are too awesome at doubles.

Thanks,

- Klaymen


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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Ive shortened my sticks 3 times, its not that hard as long as you have a godo method for doing the wick. The main thing to be careful of tho, is keeping your grip centred.



as for the move on Eiffel Strobing I dont have the vid on my comp at the mo, but if it looks different to the 2 beat;



I think it would be three beats, and it involves alternating elbow centred figure 8s. It works the same as the three beat with poi as in cross ->open-> swap (repeat), but you have to learn the alternating elbow thingo which is really hard to describe. urg, I'll make a vid within the next couple of weeks which explains it. theres a few others which I want input on too so I'll just make it up and put all online.



thanks for the props dude smile



josh

EDITED_BY: Josh (1089088662)


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native
native

sleeping with angels
Location: anaheim CA usa
Member Since: 16th Jun 2004
Total posts: 508
Posted:for contact you want a heaver staff
but its all up to you try out differnt weights and see what you like. every one is not the same and the staff you like wont be the same so just try them out till you find one you like


SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:actually, I think I sort of get what you mean Josh.



So its like, a combination of 3beat poi-weave behind the back, and the SHOULDER centred figure 8. Hmm you said Elbow centred, so maybe I don't get it. I can sorta see how it could be done mimmicking 3beat btb poi weave and shoulder 2beat fig8s.



I'll give it a bit of a crank out the back (or OTB, Teehee i'm a fool) in a minute.



Hmm, if i've got the right idea and its basically like a 3beat behind the back weave, does that mean you can do a conversion between front and back weaves? That would look bloody awesome =). I'ma go play.



- Klaymen



[EDIT: yeah I'm pretty sure I've got it, hell on the shoulders though. It's a cool move ]

EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1089115017)


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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:yeah it is a bit hard on the shoulders. I find that one side I can do it sweet, but the other side it doesnt always happen properly. Its definitely on the elbow tho. I'm not sure about doing it forwards, but I guess its possible. I can turn it through 360 with no real problems smile

It should pretty easily turn into a nice waist wrap combo too.

Josh


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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:Yeah I found it hard on one side to actually, and yeah you are right it isn't the shoulder-centred fig8 thing after all. I did manage to do a crappy reverse poi weave to btb weave, and it felt cool =).

Btw, in light of the 'move stealing' thread, I dunno I hope you don't feel I am being too steally. Thanks for you help and I'll be spending a lot of time working on my OWN style not just nabbing YOUR moves =).

- Klaymen


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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:nah thats cool dude - I dont mind - I believe that fire twirling is bigger than just the moves.

smile

Josh


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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:too true.

- Klay-genie


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duballstar
duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 2216
Posted:brilliant, this thread's saved me a whole bunch of research! biggrin

but... i was out this afternoon looking for steel tubing and it's almost impossible to find (i've tried b&q and various building suppliers and it looks like i may end up chasing all the way over to British Gas in croydon. rolleyes

mo-seph and psi where did you get yours from? my previous staff was made of 3/4 inch chrome plated tube but it was really light even with dowel in the end, which leads me to the nxt question... dos it make any difference to the pivot of the staff whether there's dowel at the ends or all the way through? i may just get the chrome tube again and dowel it all through for added weight but would prefer a heavier metal cos i can hrdly feel mine on my shoulders....

as for grip, i've been told that hockey stick grip's better than tennis raquet grip as it doesn't degrade with parafin although i'm buggered if i can get hold of any cos it seems sport shops don't sell sports gear anymore... (grumble grumble) ubbrollsmile


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:hehe I'm glad it saved time.



Near me in Glen Iris, I got my steel tubing from a place called Tait Timber. I should've editted it into my initial post but I haven't yet. I'll chuck it in here and there smile.



Chrome steel/Aluminium tubing:



Tait Timber & Hardware Pty. Ltd.

15 Weir Street, Glen Iris, 3146

Telephone (03) 9822 3381

www.taittimber.com.au



Has perfect steel here, and sells dowel too (its too bad the dowel is just a little thinner than the inside of the tube, but oh well =/.) Also, this is walking distance from Glen Iris station, on the Glen Waverley train line from the City.



I find steel VERY heavy, and it is the perfect weight. Basically the heavier it is, the more it will carry itself in the circle (this is also affected by length, too). Look up 'moments of inertia' and 'circular motion' if you are interested in the geek technical side of things :P.



Hockey grip you say? I'm yet to grip mine properly, still using my make-shift green PVC electrical tape for the time being, I think I might try this hockey grip you speak of, if I can find it, otherwise bike-grip. Thanks smile.



- Klaymen


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duballstar
duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 2216
Posted:thanks man... unfortunately my local public transport doesn't go as far as oz though! ubblol

anyone from the UK able to help me on this one?


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:haha I just realised that, since you we're asking Mo-seph, I was just coming in here to edit my post to be more international friendly, but it seems you have beaten me to mentioning it :P.

- Klaymen


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duballstar
duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 2216
Posted:no worries man.. it's all about that international friendlyness! biggrin

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:I've bought aluminium from mackays in cambridge when I was living there, I'm sure they'll do steel as well. I've also used Metals Supermarket - there's one in southampton, and they'll cut to length and deliver anything for a tenner.

I found steel tube at Lawsons, which is a timber merchant/basic ironmongers up here in edinburgh.

Hope that helps!


monkeys ate my brain

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:just a thought on having to use wire to secure excess wick, how are you guys wrapping your wicks? I found these washers that curve back that allow me the to screw enough in so that even the head doesn't stick out, no exposed metal. One of the every 1 1/2 down(4 per end on mine, 2 strips of 2.5 wicking) and lots of glue on the edges. I still can't tell if it has damaged the wicks in any way so I can't say that it's foolproof, but this time I left a few small strips of the duct tape on, the tape I use to hold the wick in place while I'm drilling. I had to let it burn off before spinning, but it left behind some gooey residue that's holding everything on pretty swift now. Stick making is fun cool

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Klaymen

Location: Melbourne, Vic.
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 180
Posted:oh thats a great idea, curved washers. Hey, I use that exact same duct tape method :P. It is totally the best way, you can get the wicks TIGHT as, and it keeps the wick firm while drilling as it doesn't fray. And yeah, after peeling most of it off you just have to burn the rest away, I still have a little bit of plastic residue there. But yeah, really tight wicks cool .



aw, what happened to that 'thumbs up' graemlin? =/.



Anyway also yeah, using the phillips head drill bit I've also made sure the screws are WAY tight. It's all very nice and secure.



- Klay-mahn



[EDIT: oh and also, I used 3 evenly spaced screws, and 0.5 metre of 4 inch wide kevlar wicking each end. The standard really. Also, I didn't use any glue or anything, how well does that work? I'm thinking about using wire to fasten a bit later on, but haven't done it as yet. I'm also considerring shortening the staffs, but it might prove to be too big a hassle, and i might stuff it up redface .



- Klaymen

EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1089277950)


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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:glue is the schit.com, hardens as it dries, holds for a long long time..Elmers glue that es..Did you end up rinning the dowel all the way thru, or just on ends?

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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duballstar
duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 2216
Posted:thanks mo-seph, i'll see what i can find! smile

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:I tend to use masking tape rather than duct tape - it doesnt leave a gummy residue and it's paper, so it burns off more cleanly. Nicer to drill through, too.

I've just been trying to coat the ends of some staffs in glue, and the glue all disappears - I was hoping for a nice seal/crust of glue. Is this normal?


monkeys ate my brain

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I didn't like the drilling through kevlar bit, I found the drill bit always got clogged up. Then ian introduced me to the: Pre drill the metal method. Where you pre drill the metal tube. Mesure the distance of the holes and mark a line on the metal longer than the wick, then you just get a phat needle and poke it through the wick till you find the hole, the needle hole provides a nice hole for the screw to go down. You might think this is a bit needle in a haystack like, but it's surprisingly easy to find the holes, and works much better if you have trouble with drilling through kevlar.

Just my 2 lamas.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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