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MikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA


Posted:
So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.

But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab. ubblol

So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.

BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).

So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.

What do you think?

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura


_pOp_BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands


Posted:
no, not an armchair critic when i wrote previous post...
but i'll be one in this one.
just because you gave one side of the argument (it wasn't mentioned before in this thread) I thought it would be good to show the other side as well, if only for argument's sake.
as far as the ban goes, I believe that in that video they try to give alternatives to mulsing like "diet regulation, spray washing or 'simply' breeding another breeds of sheep who are better suited to the hot australian climate".
the anesthetic that you talk about is not offered as an alternative, the lack of it in the mulsing process is named to emphasize the cruelty envolved the the action.

you say: "which would be a good compromise if you didn’t have to do 5000 sheep before lunch"
now lets assume that the farmer's only income is the sheep.
he surely wouldn't have to "do 5000 sheep before lunch" every day?
I mean, we all work more than 1 day in a year right? so the work could be spread over a period of time, or did you actually mean that one farmer would own 1.300.000 sheep? (5000 sheep x 52 weeks x 5 working days = 1.300.000 sheep a year). and forgive me for getting sarcastic here...

ofcourse another diet would mean a higher cost. but that's where the goverment should come in and subsidise it. we don't want all the taxmoney to go to the american anti terrorist war anyway, now do we? the other thing would be to raise the prices of the wool. I really dunno. that's why we have experts advising governments, so that we commoners don't have to deal with that part. the only thing we can do is give a signal to those governments to get their act together. and that's what's happening with this ban.
it is not an attempt to cheat people out of their income, it's a signal for the "higher power" to do something about it, and soon!

and about that climber.... what does that have to do with being a vegetarian?
I thought that we made it clear in an earlier stage of this thread that being a vegitarian is about 'having a choice'. and if you have a choice, to choose a cruelty free option. to me it seems that the climber didn't have a choice, and i would have done the same in that situation. it's the old "if i was in a plane crash, I would eat my fellow man to survive" story all over again.

meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
pOp, I know both sides of the argument.
Like I said armchair critic.
I also put in a link to PETA.
We don’t subsidise agriculture much in Australia, it’s a thing they do in the US and Europe to make up for inefficient production.
The price of wool is set by the export market.
The 5000 before lunch was “tongue and cheek” to show what it’s like on a sheep farm, but you missed the point.
Traditionally, sheep farms are called “wheat and sheep” farms, because they crop as well.
Another diet? Sheep eat grass.
'simply' breeding another breed. Yeah, right.
Like I said it’s about husbandry.

L8R

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Put it this way pOp, is there enough room for two Devil’s Advocates? wink

What I was trying to say before, and perhaps that’s what you were trying to say as well, is that it’s good that all parties have a voice.

I think it’s important that people understand what they are getting into, because well meaning acts can also lead to cruelty. Like when activists decide to free thousands of birds from cage houses, and 90% of birds end up dead.

CU smile

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


_pOp_BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands


Posted:
yes exactly. that was my point
as much as i am concerned with the wellbeing of others (and animals),
I am too concerned with the wellbeing of others to act on impuls.
but I do believe you should make yourself heard when you feel injustice has been done.
and i feel strongly to come up with a B answer to an A statement for argument's sake as well.
but that's just me.

meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
How’s this pOp?

Tuesday
Phasing out of mulesing by 2010 proposed

The wool industry says it hasn't caved in to pressure from animal rights campaigners, by agreeing to phase out the practice of mulesing by 2010.



Wednsday
Wool industry seeks to stop PETA calling for boycotts

The peak industry body for Australian wool growers is seeking an order restraining the animal rights group, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, (PETA), from threatening clothing retailers and applying pressure on them to impose a boycott on Australian wool.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


stickmanWorld Champ Procrastinator
580 posts
Location: ||...lost...||


Posted:
ah, thank you ado-p.. this is exactly what i was looking for, but dont have the time not the will and definitely not the patience to read it all..

can you sum it up pls?? biggrin

AdeSILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia


Posted:
As a vegetarian who catches and kills her own meat, I have seen australian farms in action (through a cousin who is a wool grader and an uncle who runs a wheat and sheep farm) - label that type of vegetarianism, or not biggrin

I have seen first hand crutching of sheep and have seen first hand what happens to a fly blown sheep.

both are nasty

but in lieu of banning sheep production all together...

ubbidea

hang on, I've just had an idea: lets ban blow flies instead wink

diet regulation and dipping seemed to have been suggested as alternatives (mentioned in the discssion about)

the only suitable diet regulation to avoid fly blown sheep would be to feed the sheep so it doesn't go to the toilet (family friendly site remember). How in the gods name would diet regulation stop a build up of crap around the sheeps behind????

stickmanWorld Champ Procrastinator
580 posts
Location: ||...lost...||


Posted:
Yo respect Ade!! (uh, yea, in da house ubbloco) if i lived in a place where such things as catching and killing wild animals was possible i would become a veggie in that sense too(btw, i hope no one takes offense at the term 'veggie').. i completely disagree with the way animals are treated and confined in the bioindustry (is that an english word confused.. i know its dutch, but hey) and so if i knew the animal was not tortured before eaten, then id have no problem eating meat.. right now i still eat it cuz im addicted.. but sadly in flatsville where i live nearly every square meter is inhabited by humans and so there are hardly any wild animals left ubbcrying

onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: Ade


As a vegetarian who catches and kills her own meat............






??????????????????

Written by: Ade


,the only suitable diet regulation to avoid fly blown sheep would be to feed the sheep so it doesn't go to the toilet (family friendly site remember). How in the gods name would diet regulation stop a build up of crap around the sheeps behind????




I think the problem is that sheep have been bred to enhance wool production- nature/evolution tends not to produce animals whose backside hair is so long that they are prone to lethal fly infestations. (Any species that did so would quickly die out if left to nature).

So, my suggestion would be to use the same breeding tactics to produce sheep that don't have excessive wool/hair in places that will lead to infestation; rather than continuing to breed from stock that is very prone to infestation.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
Perhaps the diet problem is when the sheep are turned out from their winter barn to the spring grass. They can 'scour' (diarrhoea) from the abundance of fresh, new grass growth. umm

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by:

right now i still eat it cuz im addicted




Surely it's a bit weak and feable to use addiction as an excuse for something that isn't chemically addictive? I could understand if you were talking about nicotine or heroin

stickmanWorld Champ Procrastinator
580 posts
Location: ||...lost...||


Posted:
too true *slaps self*

youre right i have no will power.. i tried not eating meat for a while because of what i said about treatment of animals, but it turned out that i crave something more if i know i cant have it..

Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
humans as a species are omnivores, which means we basically eat anything living/ or once living. after knowing thati think vegitarianism is a bit silly but i can understand that people do it simply because they dont like the taste of meat or they disagree with the methods taken to kill the animals. if a person decides to become a vege thats fine, more meat for me, easier survival for me!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


_pOp_BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands


Posted:
Written by: Mr Majestik


humans as a species are omnivores, which means we basically eat anything living/ or once living.



no we are not. e.g. we cannot eat raw meat. we grew accustomed to it, but still need to cook it to be able to digest.

Written by: Mr Majestik

after knowing thati think vegitarianism is a bit silly



ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol (I really don't know what to say to this)

meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
lol, we so could eat raw meat, if we had to survive, anywqay, you get my point that humans have a wide veriety in their diet to maximise survival potential

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: Mr Majestik


.......if a person decides to become a vege thats fine, more meat for me, easier survival for me!




Given that you live in modern day Australia and spend some of your time using high-tech IT equipment and posting on the internet, it seems a little strange that you'd be having 'survival' difficulties.

A certain proportion of meat eaters seem to be living in some kind of fantasy land, where, despite the fact that they live in houses and get their food from a supermarket, seem to be under the impression that eating meat relates to live and death survival scenarios and being manly hunters.

Obviously, none of them can really believe that; but, from some of the things they say and the arguments put forward, it does seem that one some subconscious level they are in that fantasy mindset.

Modern meat farming is nothing to do with nature, or the skill and craft of hunting, or has any connection whatsoever with survival.

It's about production lines where living beings are force fed the cheapest food (generally including waste parts from their own species), steroids/antibiotics, kept in torturously close confinement (not always, but often), slaughtered and used as food for a species (humanity) which has no real biological need for such food (I'm referring to those humans who live in the modern civilised world)

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
this is true dave, this is why ican understand people become vergos because of the way the animals are treated. it wasnt an arguement it was a joke, i'm from the west and 'surviving' better than a few billion people in other parts of the world. and at the same time providing myself with irrelevant toys like computers. hoorah for hypocricy, when we can see the problem and just talk about it on the net

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


Luminous SoulsGOLD Member
newbie
36 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, U.S.


Posted:
i'm a vegan, and i couldn't imagine my life any different.

FabergGOLD Member
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland


Posted:
Written by: onewheeldave


A certain proportion of meat eaters seem to be living in some kind of fantasy land, where, despite the fact that they live in houses and get their food from a supermarket, seem to be under the impression that eating meat relates to live and death survival scenarios and being manly hunters.




That's a very good point Dave.

I've had this discussion with many of my friends in the past, and you know what? Genuine survival situations aside, most meat eaters would not be able to kill an animal for food.

Ask someone to slit a lamb's throat, put a bullet in a cow's head, or wring a chickens neck, and there are very few who could/would rise to the challenge.

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile


Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
Written by: Fabergé


Genuine survival situations aside, most meat eaters would not be able to kill an animal for food.
Ask someone to slit a lamb's throat, put a bullet in a cow's head, or wring a chickens neck, and there are very few who could/would rise to the challenge.




True, but, rather hypocitically, I know how to do all of those.

Oh, did I mention I'm a vegan?

So, if the (insert suitably theatrical voice of doom here) End of the World does indeed happen, I'll be alright.

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
surely if it was the end of the world then you wouldn't be alright?

Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
Nah, I'm sure to survive, according to all the films I've seen, the (new) world needs a whiney, annoying wanna be scientist to save the day.

Either that, or I'll become a weatherman. The world needs a weatherman.

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


PrometheusDiamond In The Rough
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia


Posted:
I had a friend in college who used to proclaim "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants."

Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
what a legend, thats like some people i know who are sort of vegos but eat chickens because they dont like them!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


NOnactivist for HoPper liberation.
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac


Posted:
if the end of the world happens, surely there wouldn't be many sheep or chickens... you'd have to live on cockroaches and the rotting flesh of your fellow humans... which would mean that rather than being necessarily a carnivore, you'd want to be a scavenger who eats mainly dead meat.....

nice.

Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.


NateBRONZE Member
Groovy ga watashi no namae desu!
1,530 posts
Location: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England


Posted:
i've been a vegitarian all my life....dont find it hard to find things to eat, however i dont go to resteraunts.....also if you're a vegie dont go to asia....their idea of a vegie meal is telling the person whos eating it that it has meat in, dont know how that works but oh well..also french are annoying in the same way.....horray for the veggie's!

I like Languages.

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by:

if you're a vegie dont go to asia




Asia has more vegans/vegetarians than the rest of the world combined!

Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
ha, maybe they all eat meat and to them being vego is being a carnivore to us!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


shen shuiSILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand


Posted:
well.. considering there was 20 pages of discussion here and i only read the first two (man it takes AGES to read them all... and its funny when you want to reply to something someone said but it was written 6 months ago... kinda missed the party on "that" one... ), this may have already been said.

karma.

there. said it. there is less karma in eating vegetables (and other plant matter) than in eating animals because animals are "higher" evolutionary.

and im sure this is gonna open up many cans of worms, so i'm going to go into hiding.

those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Says Who????

The Buddha was not a vegetarian, nor is the Dalai Lama



wink

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


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