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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted:So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.

But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab. ubblol

So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.

BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).

So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.

What do you think?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


JauntyJames
JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2004
Total posts: 3533
Posted:Written by: firedancingfairy

Vegan diets are 'natural'... I think saying that they are unatural is a misuse of the word. Maybe you mean 'unhealthy'>? Anywho, vegan's don't survive on plants! rolleyes We eat plenty of grains, legumes and other healthy products that keep us feeling great.
Peace peace



grains+legumes are plants. sorry, but they really are

my girlfriend is a vegan, but i'm one of them meat eating peoples. i could give it up. yup, i could give it up at any time i want to. i just choose not to. wink


-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"


firedancingfairy
enthusiast
Location: Australia
Member Since: 23rd Aug 2003
Total posts: 201
Posted:Hahahahah

ooops redface ubblol... plants just sound so leafy!

It was late at night... redface ubblol



Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:i wonder if meat is addictive, conspiracy theory looms!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi guys,

I tend to shoot off a bit when we start talking about the animal liberation side for vegetarianism. Though, I well understand the arguments for animal liberation, I probably have a different view than most animal libbers because I grew up on a farm chasing cows, sheep and chooks, and I know domesticated farm animals are not humans in disguise.

I really object to the use of emotive, humanising and almost hysterical anthropomorphist words like murder, cannibalism and karma in relation to domesticated farm animals. I dont say that in a way that implies Im cruel or farmers cruel. Farmers are generally kind hearted people.

Deliberate torture and misuse of animals is evil. I dont support zoos, think vegetarians should thing twice before they decide to own pets, dont think we should cull introduced deer out of our parks, and support the banning of fox hunting. The only animals I would torture would be the people who recently re-introduced foxes to Tasmania for hunting. Foxes and feral cats are the biggest threat to native animals.

Perhaps it is primitive, but as omnivores, and we Homo sapiens are omnivores, meat is part of the natural diet for our species. If people choose not to eat meat, then thats their choice, but dont try and make others feel guilty by humanising domesticated farm animals.

Carnivores are meat eaters, and I would consider it cruel if a carnivorous animal like a pet cat was placed on a strict vegetarian diet. Like I said previously, I consider a vegan diet unnatural because you have to supplement that diet to remain healthy. A natural diet should not need supplements.

shrug


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


loki.c1687
loki.c1687

addict
Location: Leeds
Member Since: 13th Jul 2004
Total posts: 546
Posted:u will all give into bacon one day....
remember:
egg plant tastes like egg plant
but meat tatses like murder and murder tatse preety damn good.
mike.c


Rules and responsibities:
These are the ties that bind us.
We do what we do,because of who we are.
If we did otherwise,we would not be ourselves.
I will do what i have to do
And i will do what i must..


nearly_all_gone
nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2004
Total posts: 1626
Posted:Written by: Stone

I really object to the use of emotive, humanising and almost hysterical anthropomorphist words like murder, cannibalism and karma in relation to domesticated farm animals. I dont say that in a way that implies Im cruel or farmers cruel. Farmers are generally kind hearted people.




But that's just the thing - YOU object, fine, but it is just a matter of opinion.

I know that animals aren't "humans in disguise", they're animals, and that's why they're beautiful and shouldn't be killed as a "choice" for humans. I believe humans have evolved higher than animals and as such should attempt to transcend the cycle of kill-to-eat (not in plants, but an animal and a plant are two very different things).

I believe it is right to choose not to kill an animal when you could eat a plant. Therefore I am a vegetarian.

I'm not sure I agree when you say that you "think vegetarians should thing twice before they decide to own pets", which implies there is something wrong with owning pets. I don't see what argument you could use to support thits - it's not antural? Those pets will still be sold, often to people who don't care for animals. It supports an often cruel trade? Again, that trade is not going to stop because a few veggies decide not to keep an animal.

I think that keeping a pet is good because it ensures an animal is cared for. Just as you could argue it is natural for humans to eat meat because we've done it for thousands of years, so too could you argue it's natural that we keep animals. I don't think you can have it both ways.

And you certainly can't defend farms and then say humans shouldn't keep pets. You can't keep a farm without dogs, at least not round here (or so it seems, in my mainly-farm-based village).

*wants to say more but has lecture to go to*


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau


funky_hats
funky_hats

eating apples with chopsticks can be rather difficult
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Member Since: 19th Jan 2005
Total posts: 167
Posted:hey ive been a vegetarian for all my 16 years - and never have i felt any cravings, or anything like that. i guess its because i never really ate any sort of meat in the first place... confused
but im not planing to change my eating habits, anyway! biggrin



Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Dave, domesticated farm animals are prey animals. In the wild, prey animals would have provided food for big cats and such. In captivity, they provide food for humans; something we have been doing for 10,000 years. There is no evidence that humans have evolved; regressed more likely.



Most farmers I know arent vegetarians. The keeping pets part was to draw an analogy between keeping animals for food and enslaving animals for self-gratification as personal pets. As you say, the pet industry is a cruel trade. And what do most pets eat? They eat meat, unless of course you have a large pet ruminant running loose in the back yard. I think keeping birds in cages is an abomination, and they already have laws in Italy to protect goldfish. To herd animals without dogs, you ride a horse or a motor bike.



Sure everyone has the right to choose not to kill an animals for food, but I dont think you have the right to use emotional blackmail to convince others. Anyhow, at its most simplest, humans cannot live solely on animal product nor can they live solely on plant products, without suffering nutritional deficiencies. Therefore, we need a balance of both, thats why we are omnivores.



From a DNA point of view, plants and animals are very similar genetically.







Ill be away dancing with serpents over the weekend



biggrin


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Faberg
veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member Since: 26th Aug 2003
Total posts: 1459
Posted:Written by: Stone

And what do most pets eat? They eat meat, unless of course you have a large pet ruminant running loose in the back yard.



my folks had a yorkshire terrier for 14 years who was a vegetarian. according to vets, they're one of the few domestic dogs which can be quite healthily fed a purely vegetarian diet. something which i always found quite strange, given that they were originally bred for hunting rabbits and such.......


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:That's interesting Faberge. I also found it strange, when I was recently informed that Doberman's (hunting dogs) make excellent sheep dogs



I though most dogs, being portable garbage disposals, would be fairly tolerant to a wide range in diet. Though, perhaps eventually declining under a strict vegetarian diet.



smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted:So in the six months I've gone from vegetarian to light carnivore back to vegetarian.

I do take fish oil because it's medicinal for a chronic health condition I have. And everyone should take fish oil. And no, flax seed oil is about 1/100th the benefit only. Until a good non-meat source for the omega-3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid (EPA and DHA) is found, there just isn't a good substitute for fish oil.

I just did a huge literature review on it. It's anti-inflammatory, anti-diabetic, lowers both blood lipids (fats) and cholesterol, it lowers blood glucose, it protects against heart attacks, it may prevent cancer, it lowers blood pressure, it assists in modulating the immune system, and it's antidepressant. No heavy metals make it in to the oils. And the modern diet is about 10:1 omega-6 to omega-3's, so getting the omega-3's through fish oil is something everyone should do.

And other than that, I made the switch back on 1 January. Meat only if absolutely necessary to avoid offending a host.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


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