-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
youre like the diet coke of evil. just one calorie, not evil enough.
Written by: 'pOp'
(oh yeah: I did eat the diner, I'm still alive and not a lesser vegetarian
because i figured that the number of a beast wouldn't be the same as eating
the beast itself, now would it ).
"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations
Written by:
I would say that arguments on the moral issue also lack some creditability, because we have domesticated animals for thousands of years and we use animals for our pleasure and amusement; as pets, beasts of burden and food. I wonder how many vegetarians have a moggie, for example.
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Animals don’t have a soul or a conscience, and in the real world a carnivore would eat you before you could say vegetarian.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: There is no "e" in "Lightning"
We have to remember that in all higher carnivores, cannibalism is rare. There seems to be some genetic dictum: "Members of your own species have a different value than members of other species."
My point is that I think that comparing meat eating to cannibalism is probably just a touch extreme.
(And yes, let's leave out the "stranded in the mountains after a plane crash" scenario.)
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: nilid69
Morally, where most of us veggy types are coming from I think, is that we do not wish to cause suffering where it is unnecessary. There is no right or wrong in that, it's a choice we have made. Telling us that we have eaten animals for ever, whether true or not, doesn't change this stance at all. We really don't care that "its traditional" "its natural" "we're predators." There is evidence on both sides of this, but really, even if you are 100% right, it doesn't change anyones view. Why? Because most veggies don't care if they aren't being natural or traditional, they care that they are causing suffering and loss.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
OK, not much time today. Conscious is not intelligence. Conscious is the awareness of a moral or ethical aspect to one's conduct together with the urge to prefer right over wrong (dictionary dot com).
.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: onewheeldave
Especially given what Davy said in the previous post about the way mankind has behaved in the past, or about how nature has decreed we and other animals behave as not being particularly relevant to the issue; surely this point by Lightning is just another diversionary tactic?
To me it seems the point he's making is that if it's ok to kill and eat animals on the grounds that they are less conscious than us, then surely there's grounds for eating humans who are similarly lacking in higher consciousness.
It seems like a sound argument that is worthy of a good answer.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by:
Written by:Lightning: I'm sorry, but I can't have a rational discussion with someone who believes that humans should recieve equal moral consideration as a farm animal. I just can't wrap my brain around that.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: There is no "e" in "Lightning"
I will (stubbornly) say again that I believe that comparing cannabalism to eating meat is extreme............
.........I'm sorry, but I can't have a rational discussion with someone who believes that humans should recieve equal moral consideration as a farm animal. I just can't wrap my brain around that. *shrug*
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by:
I'm sorry, but I can't have a rational discussion with someone who believes that humans should recieve equal moral consideration as a farm animal. I just can't wrap my brain around that.
Written by:
As to whether humans have some special moral status solely because of their humanity- that's an interesting discussion, but totally irrelevant where this specific issue (of a low mental/conscious life being grounds for killing and eating) is concerned.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations
Written by:
All I was asking for was the reason for the differentiation you've made between dumb humans and dumb animals.
Written by:
….. maybe you can tell me the difference between eating animals and eating humans?
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OWD said: Many of those arguments rest on it being wrong to inflict unecessary pain suffering and loss on any beings.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
OWD said: I'm not saying that humans should recieve equal moral treatment with farm animals, neither, I believe, is Davy, or anyone else here- no one is saying that.
There are very obvious physiological and mental differences between humans and animals.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: There is no "e" in "Lightning"
So now I'm getting this gestalt (based on discussions of empathy and self-awareness and yadda) that we're heading in the direction of "what defines a human?"
That's way too heavy for me today.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
Written by: nilid
All I was asking for was the reason for the differentiation you've made between dumb humans and dumb animals.
Think you just answered your own question nilid69. Humans possess language skills a conscience, intelligence and rational thought. And a soul.
Written by: onewheeldave
You seem to be hinting at some special characteristic of humans that absolves them from the abuse we put on animals.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
i like breaking the Law , of Gravity !
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: There is no "e" in "Lightning"
What's "necessary?" Some would argue that medical research is unnecessary.
Some would argue that they'd just die without their leather Gucci purse. Go figure. *shrug*
Written by: There is no "e" in "Lightning"
Unnecessary suffering and waste is bad, of course.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!