Forums > Social Discussion > Thoughts on vegetarianism

So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.

But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab.

So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.

BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).

So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.

What do you think?

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

I still dont agree, I am anything but an average, read: stereotypical 'Meat n Two Veg' guy.

I've been to countries where meat is added to dishes for flavour not content....

I'm not knocking veggie food, all im saying is that you dont have to be a veggie to enjoy/cook good food. And you dont have to be a veggie to enjoy veggie food

Love is the law.

Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

Hey Skul



Its never really occured to me to argue with someone over choice..... veggie do veggie dont, tis all the same to me,



but flavour... now thats a whole different kettle of fish (or kittens if you dont like fish)



personally i dont like cucumber but its down to genetics and not choice and so i feel robbed....



I must admit though, Argueing about flavour, like i said above, is completly based on opinion, thus any debate is immediatley rendered fruitless (or meatless if you dont like fruit).



I would suggest organising a picnic. (no cucumber sandwhich's for me please).



Would anyone like an apple?



/edit/



yes, i am aware that there is a contradiction above, but it still makes sense if you replace opinion with personal taste

Love is the law.

you don't eat aubergines? shame on you!!

Written by: Skulduggery

Why on earth do people fight so much about this topic?




we're not fighting any more, honestly. that was all a few pages back

Written by: Skulduggery

Lets just let people choose if the do or don't wish to eat meat and leave it at that.



then there'd be no point to having a thread called "Thoughts on Vegetarianism" in the Discussion Forum

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Dave

I prefer veggie burgers to normal burgers.... but only the birdseye ones....

I see your point though.... maybe the great unwashed do see veggies as being somehow deficiant. Personally I would suggest its much more likley that they find them intimidating. Sub conciously labelling them as silently (and sometimes not so silently) claiming the moral high ground.

Sadly as with alot of things, people seem to lose respect instead of gaining it when making alternative personal choices.

Love is the law.

Written by: Flame Boy

Im jumping in on this coversation cos I only just noticed it so obviously I've missed a fair bit so maybe this has already been said, however, I have no probs with vegys but I'd like to point out that just by giving up meat is not going to decrease the number of animals that are killed; in fact I doubt if even the whole vegy population has had much of an impact on the meat industry


As I know, no one has brought that point up yet.

You'll have to elaborate on what you're saying; intuitively it would seem to me that if no one ate meat, then meat production would have to stop- surely companies aren't going to continue to produce a product that no one will buy?

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Written by: Flame Boy

giving up meat is not going to decrease the number of animals that are killed; in fact I doubt if even the whole vegy population has had much of an impact on the meat industry




My two cents here

Cattle/Chickens/Pigs etc.. They dont breed, they are bred.

Flameboy, therein lies an answer and a solution.

Love is the law.

Written by: Stone




I cringe when I hear about substitutes. I prefer the real thing.







I personally think that if the choice is between killing an animal and not killing an animal but still surviving in just as good a way (often with better tasting stuff, as I see lots of people think), then not killing is a priori the better option. I think "substitute" becomes a good word when you think of the alternative.. abbatoir.



Written by: Stone


And plants do die for your taste. It�s true plants aren�t cuddly, but they are alive before they are killed for your food. Genetically, there�s not that much difference b/t a wheat plant and a chicken.







But a wheat plant is a lot further away from me in terms of consciousness and an experience of existance. Take chickens, for example, or any other form of animal life. They have rudimentary consciousness, they feel fear and pain (maybe as a result of instinct or as a survivalistic reflex, but it still exists for them) and through this I believe they feel discomfort. The conditions they're kept in is shocking, and I can't justify supporting a trade which does that by my dietary choices. I also can't justify eating the flesh of a being that has died unpleasantly, or support conscious life being bred in order to die. Plants are beautiful but their regenerative capabilities are far greater. And their seed-bearing capacities mean their DNA is passed on in virtually unchanged form, so if you look at them as a type of life, I think the same life can continue for generations of plant, maybe even the whole cycle of seed-to-plant for the thousands of years it continues.



Back to animals though. Philosophers have argued that these reflex survival actions do not mean intelligence or consciousness, but that we merely recognise their reactions in our own behaviour and sympathise with things that aren't even there. But I think that you can explain most human beahviour as a kind of survivalistic reflex, however remote and complex it is. I'm sitting here discussing this issue on the internet because of a communal instinct in me which tells me to talk to other people, to communicate, so I could pass messages of danger or recieve warnings, and so that I feel close to people so I can have support from them which in some situations could result in my survival. It's complicated but I can think of virtually no human situation that couldn't be explained in this way. So really, what difference is there between their less complex reflexes and my own?



I don't think that plants have this experience of life. They naturally bear fruit and seeds. If I could nourish people by feeding them my seed (mm, nice image there) then I would. Hey, anyone want some seed? You could put it in a sandwich. But it wouldn't be vegetarian friendly... or would it? Nothing dies in its production...



I might just leave that...



Interesting thoughts though Stone!

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Written by: onewheeldave

I'm not sure that substitutes is a good word, it makes it sound that if you're not eating meat you're somehow lacking (nutrition or taste) whereas I think most vegetarians would agree that vegetarian food is way tastier (and healthier) than meat based food.



But unfortunatley, the human body is still adapted to gain sustenance from meat. There isn't a better source of protein, and it's a really good source of iron and stuff... I think that really, the human body does need meat. But that you can also get substitutes for this need which are just as good. But the purpose they serve is one of substitution, because they replace something which humans have evolved to eat.

Give it a few hundred thousand years. Our teeth will be the shape of can openers

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

i like breaking the Law , of Gravity !

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Livin' on dreams and custard creams

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

Written by: NOn

so i propose that a new term be invented for all the folk who like their veggies but also a bit of fish/ gelatin/ rennet/ poultry or whatever their non-veggie weakness may be. How about...... vegenivore?



nah.... that sounds too much like someone who eats vegans

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely

ok, so that one applies if you mainly vegetarian but occasionally enjoy a spot of cannibalism....

carnitarian? no that's rubbish... vegefisharian? vegenotentirelyan? vege........gah.. dunno.... vegegahdunno! there we go, there's the new word

Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

Written by: darkpoet


and have you ever seen a healthy looking vegitarian??
no! theyre all anemic and a slate clammy gray colour





so there i am, innocently surfing the net for vegetarian links...
then I find this link especially for darkpoet!!!!!

quote from the site: "Welcome to the first and only adult site made by and featuring a cast of sexy vegans and vegetarians! Veg Porn is alternative porn and sex-positive culture for herbivores and those who love them, and we think you'll find something here that tickles you fancy."

oh man, what do people come up with next... poi-porn????
.

eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.

www.jennifersteele.com (WARNING: ADULT MATERIAL!)

Poi porn has been done.

Did I mention that Jen Steele was in the camp next-door at Burning Man?

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Thanks for the link Dave - very interesting

But I'm obviously missing something here: what's the difference between flexitarianism and demivegetarianism?

"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

Written by: Spanner

Thanks for the link Dave - very interesting

But I'm obviously missing something here: what's the difference between flexitarianism and demivegetarianism?



That depends on what a demivegetarian is- it's not a term I'm familiar with.

If they do mean the same I think the flexitarianism is more suitable in that most vegetarians maintain that vegetarianism involves zero meat consumption.

So the term demi-vegetarian, in that sense, is somewhat meaningless, or at least misleading, as one who eats any meat is not a vegetarian at all.

Flexitarian is one who eats primarily a vegetarian diet, but occasionally consumes meat (mayb for health reasons, maybe because, like Tao Star, they are having serious problems with cravings).

It has the advantage of not including the term 'vegetarian' in its name.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Flexitarian, sounds like a contortionist.

What�s the difference between a flexitarian or demivegetarianism? Perhaps a question, more to the point, is what�s the difference between a demivegetarianism and a pescetarian?

A demi vegetarian eats little of no meat, but may eat fish.

All these terms to deal with Dave, and you said it was easy to become a vegetarian

It just seems to me that what you are really discussing, in a round about way, is a healthy, balanced diet.

This may be an old fashioned concept, but I always though a vegetarian was a person who ate vegetables and no meat.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

OWD: You seem to be as familiar with demi-vegetarianism as the Vegetarian Society is with flexitarianism

I did mention demi-vegetarianism earlier in the thread, but I will explain again to save you rereading the whole thread

A demi-vegetarian is someone who eats no or little meat but may eat fish. That's not "may" as in "allows themself to", but as in "possibly". The difference is that that pescetarians don't eat meat, but definitely eat fish.

So, aside from the etymology, neither are vegetarian, that's true. But if that's so, surely there's no difference between being a flexitarian and being an omnivore? Both eat meat, both eat vegetables...

"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"