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Forums > Social Discussion > Point out what passages are flawed in the bible.

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robotface
member

Member Since: 2nd Apr 2004
Total posts: 190
Posted:Buzaruka decided to make this challenge in onewheeldaves "religion a way forward" thread, even though it's been clearly stated that onewheeldave didn't want such activity in his thread so I thought I would take the initiative and create this thread for buzaruka.

Heres my passage and my issue with it Quote:
Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."



and in the ten commandments it says though shall not kill.

a flaw? seems to me it is indeed a flaw.


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psycho44
psycho44

member

Member Since: 30th Jan 2004
Total posts: 56
Posted:it doesn't mention murderers either does that mean that muderers will inherite the kingdom of god? no i think that maybe those were just some example and no that does mean that the bible is flawed just that every wickedness was not mentioned. i am a pretty new christian and am not sure but i thought that the bible was written by the holy spirit through human authors.

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brodieman
brodieman

old hand
Location: london
Member Since: 11th Jul 2003
Total posts: 1024
Posted:peeps have to remember the bible is thousends of years old has been translated hundreds of times has been added too, the language that is spoken in the bible sometimes gets confused coz is a mixture of actual events and i think methaphors. the the overall idea is nice
i think a christian has the right to have his religious beliefs respected as much as the spiritualest, the pagian, the muslim, the aethist
does any person have the right to undermime someones way of life?
how about as balanced open minded people we switch the discussion and and ask
What passage in the bible is right?
love thy nabhour
"as i walk through the valley of the shadow of death"

People here preach peace... peace comes from respect. be good to each other smile......................................................................................................................................................................


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Ok I searched the web looking for real contradictions and found these.

It turns out some people answer them all the same.



I don't think the bible can be taken as the complete truth but I spose this contributes neutrally to this thread in some way

EDITED_BY: DeepSoulSheep (1085660919)


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Konsti
Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria
Member Since: 16th Oct 2003
Total posts: 785
Posted:Written by: FireSpirit


I am God! I make my own choices to create my own world! I do believe in a Highter Being, But for the most part I can do what ever I want





interesting.

are u aware that Anton Szander Lavey says the exact same thing in the satanic bible?

he was the founder of Church of Satan

im not a satanist by the way,

or am i devil

*insert evil laugh here*


"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:Written by:
did Adam and Eve get married before having sex?



i thought that was original sin? that they were bad - not really
people to hold up as an example if they really have caused all the suffering people say they have.

Question:

if some bits of the bible are no longer relevant, even if they once were - how are you supposed to tell what is now considered a sin by God from what was then, what applies in 2004 from what applied at Jesus' time?

surely if you use your own common sense to make that decision then you are
going against God's word by in effect making up your own rules - obeying what
you want to obey and not what God tells you to?


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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ieuan
holy man
Location: Upstate, NY
Member Since: 17th Sep 2003
Total posts: 110
Posted:Ok, so I am a huge lurker and have been reading lots of threads especially the religion ones and have kept very quiet but I would like to add my two cents worth. I guess it's just a comment really.
I've been in the church all my life and all I ever hear in agruments is this: 'christians' tell the 'non-christians' "well, you don't see my point so your going to burn in hell. I'm safe and I have fire insurance, and well the rest of you are just going to burn in torment forever." Frankly, it's kinda haughty and self righteous.
On the other side of the coin, you have the 'non-christians' who refuse to believe that God can judge and be angry. That God is forgiving and will just work it all out for me in the end.
My point? You can't have one without the other. In other words you can't take the nice side of God from the bible and the loving side and say that He's never gonna take action or turn His head to the bad that you do. Neither can you take the other stance and say that you have to 'turn or burn'. If you're going to take one part of the bible you have to take the whole thing. That goes for both sides.
Just a strongly as I believe what I think is true, others are the same. The age old debate about the Bible or any theological subject is poinless. You can take history and translation, or whatever and make it say whatever you want-for either side.
I just hope that both sides could just take a sec and open their mind to the fact that the other side just may have something that could be valid. Even if it is the smallest thing. Instead of anger and hurt perhaps people could chat and be enlightened by one another.
Course now we're talking of an ultimate utopia where everyone just loves everyone and truth is easy to find and pride induced deception is non-existant.
These are just my opinions, nothing is aimed at anyone in particular I'm just talking of people in general. I'm not really gonna get into the debate, although yes I believe the Bible is true and I believe in God, and I do think that everything in there has a reason, even if its seems like it's not relavent for today. Alot of the stuff in boring Leviticus has to do with sanitation and avoiding cross contamination. Some of that is used today. To get all "quotey" (I that a word? wink) All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is useful for teaching, correction, instruction in righteousness, etc.(don't know that address of that one). Sometimes it takes a little hunting to find out why it's there.
I believe if you truly and honestly search for truth, it will find you.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble hope it makes some sense, if not that's OK, I'm at work and have nothing to do so I thought I'd post. I don't want to put anyone down anything, just my thoughts on the matter. I just want everyone to Luuuuuuuuuv eachother ubbrollsmile I respect all of you- on both sides.

Pure Light+Pure Love=Pure Truth-

John


*


Gather your harps from the willow trees, dust off the ancient strings. Call the bards and prophets, let them sing healing and freedom. Let light and love flow from the strings, colors of revelation.

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Tao Star, I think the original sin was disobedience, as in eating fruit from the tree of knowledge. Did not God instruct Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply? The view that sex is somehow associated with the Fall, and sex is tainted with sin reflects a later Christian view.


I think it's obvious that the old testament was written by men. I'm told that their writing's were inspired by God, but if that were correct, then why did they think the earth was flat and unmoveable? (Ecclesiastes 1:5, Psalm 104:5).


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:I'm tired so I'll just post this. It's very long and involved. But it's a good place to reap information for this discussion:

http://members.cox.net/galatians/chapters.htm
br>
Cheers!


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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:Before we start having a discussion about the Bible, we have to make sure we are all using the same translaton for reference.
The New English Standard Revised is the closest translation to the originals.

(That is, unless there is a Newer English Standard Revised..)

Raph


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:
Raph, the NIV (New International Version) of the Bible has already been chosen as a standard reference.

It seems to be accepted widely.

smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Burzaruka
enthusiast

Member Since: 13th Apr 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:Hold up Stone, show me your archealogical proof that the exidus didn't happen.

What other account of the 10 comandments?


Valura, I am not perfect, I dont claim to be. If I judge you than well... that is my error and something you really shouldnt be concerned with. It is between me and my God. I believe that the path you are on now is leading to hell. If that is judging you than so be it. I have the answer to my sins, do you have one?

I never said the laws were changed to suit todays times... where did you get that notion. I said that Jesus reinvented the laws that we should live by. Created new if you will, but the laws really didnt change. When asked what commandment was the greatest, this including the 10 commandments and all the laws of the exidus and levites, Jesus replied "Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind body and streangth..." How can you be gay and follow that commandment? Therefore homosexuality is wrong.

I am not forcing my opinion or religion on anyone, I am asking you to proove me wrong. Another thing, I didn't start this thread, I am just part of the topic of discussion, if you wish to leave and not take part of this thread that is your choice. It is a shame that you know the truth and yet choose to ignore it.

My judgment is not unfair nor unfounded. The foundation and fairness is baised on my religion. Your acceptance of it may make you think otherwise but you are wrong.

psyco 44 Jeffery Domer (sp) is reported to have accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior and has repented of his sins, if this is true then he will be in heaven.

Brodieman, translate the Bible back to the original languges... Greek, Arimaic, Hebrew and you will see that they translate correctly. I know this because of my friends in Bible College Oazark Christian College to be precise.

Someone has the right to believe how they wish, just as much as I or anyone else has the right to contradict and speak against such beliefs. Freedom of speach works both ways.

Tao Star, original sin was the eating of the fruit from the tree of life. I think you watch too many Anjalina Jo Lee movies or however her name is spelled wink

I'll finish this later.


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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:Written by:
I am not forcing my opinion or religion on anyone



thats not true at all and you proove that by stating:

Written by:
. I believe that the path you are on now is leading to hell.



I have an answer for my life.. but I choose not to go into it with you as I really feel that you are very close minded and quite condesending.

Written by:
Valura, I am not perfect, I dont claim to be. If I judge you than well... that is my error and something you really shouldnt be concerned with. It is between me and my God. I believe that the path you are on now is leading to hell. If that is judging you than so be it. I have the answer to my sins, do you have one?



funny how you judge me and decide that I am going to hell to be answering to my sins...yet when yours are pointed out you shy away from it...and say that it is none of my concern, by that rationale my life is my business and you are taking liberties by judging me..." well that is something that you really shouldnt concern yourself with"
what is good for the goose is good for the gander.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:you wanted contradictions... here they are

KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Human vs. ghostly impregnation
ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and this is the best one that was found for you.

too good for words....

smile there you are


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Burzaruka








Valura........ I believe that the path you are on now is leading to hell.



---------



psyco 44 Jeffery Domer (sp) is reported to have accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior and has repented of his sins, if this is true then he will be in heaven.





It's precisely that kind of attitude that's turned so many people off of religion.



'Believe, or burn in hell for eternity' is not spiritual in any way- it's a bullying threat in the old testement style.



Anyone with an ounce of spiritual understanding knows, with-out doubt, that they will not going to hell for refusing to go along with such twisted interpretations fo the bible.



Lastly, by insisting that Valura is destined for hell, IMO you're being offensive.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Flynt
Flynt

Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:I second that.

You have asked for specific chapter and verse of bible contradiction (and have now been provided with plenty) yet refuse to allow that the literal translation of the bible has changed over the past few millenia.

It's amazing how closed minded and narrow thinking some people can be, particularaly in the example of organised religion. Wouldnt a better way, to understand both your own viewpoint and other peoples would be, rather than just regurgitating what you have been told, instead actually go do some research into this subject rather than just saying "I have friends in bible college and they know its all true".

I too have friends in bible college, but I would not tell anyone that they were going to hell. That is just an offensive fanatical viewpoint, instead of one of love and understanding.

Please take the time to consider what you are saying to people, rather than spouting out fire and brimstone to us.


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Burzaruka
enthusiast

Member Since: 13th Apr 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:Well... lets start at the begining, heck why dont you just quote the whole site and get it over with huh?

hahahaahah read your contradictions!

One is talking about his rule in the city of Jerusalem and his provisions in war, two totally seperate entities. Are you daft, is this a contradiction? No it is just quoting out of context.


Your referance to the Psalms, a book of praise and Joshua a book of war... hmmm are you saying the the all mighting cant be peacful and yet vengful? It isnt a contradiction it is two seperate parts of God's peronsality.

Same for your next query

Joeseph was Jesus' earthly father... but not biological wink Okay and to answer this one you have to have an NIV with foot notes, mine happens to have them and this is the answer

There are several differences between Luke's genealogy and Matthew's. Matthew begins with Abraham (the father of ther Jewish people) while Luke traces the line in the reverse order and goes back to Adam, showing Jesus' relationship to the whole human race....

Matthew traces the leagal decent of the house of David using only heirs to the throne while Luck traces the complete liine of Joseph to David.

So there is your answer to that, tricky if you dont have all the info very good try though, that one I give your source credit on.

On creation, you didnt quote anything that was a contradiction to me... God made man last, he brought animals for Adam to name and keep him company... where is the contradiction there?

On the Ark, the seven of each clean animal were for eating, then they still needed two of each to repleanish the speacies.

On wisdom, how can you say that wisdom will not bring sorrow. Look at the men who invented the atomic bomb, wise men but great sorrow for the hundreds of thousands they have killed. What about the doctor who despite his or her medical wisdom fail to save a patient? Is this a contradicion? No it is a statment of fact. On the destruction of the wise, look at the archeolagists who, in all their wisdom, found a human species off of one tooth?? Does that sound wise, or something that God will smash down? It isnt a contradiction at all.


Next, Joeseph is the decendent of David, once again read the context, Joeseph is Jesus' earthly father, the phrase "that of the fruit of his loins" was talking about David's loins not Joeseph's. The Holy Ghost lay with Mary BEFORE SHE WAS MARRIED TO JOESEPH, the literal father was the Holy Spirit AKA God. \

On the sins of the father, I again refer to my foot notes...

The book of Deuteronomy is book of Law, where as Isaiah is a book of Judgment and prophisy. The quote in Isaiah was about the Prophisy against Babalon, not law. So there you have it, not a contradiction just more and more and more quoting out of context

Do you wish to try again? You have not won this round, nice try though.



Valura, I am not forcing it on you, I have the freedom of speach and I am telling you what I believe and exorcising that freedom. Just as you have the right to tell me that you feel that I am wrong.

My opinion of your life shouldnt be a concern of you. Just as your opinion of me and my life is not a concern of mine.

My sins, I have already answerd for, the answer of your sins, if left unchanged and in my belief is hell. Like it or not that is what I believe.


Flynt nothing has changed. You like Valura have not even checked the source, you have done none of your own research and are being foolish to take this joker at his own word.

Do your own research dont just quote any idiot you find on the web, because if someone like me can prove that those are not contradictions, without any formal Biblical Training, what do you think someone with a degree can do to them?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a differnt result. How many times will I have to prove that the Bible is not false nor does it contain any contradictions before you accept it?

Flynt, I believe that without change all men are destined for hell.

For all have sined and have fallen short of the glory of God.

For the wages of sin is death, but the true gift of God is life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If you repent of your sins, He is faithful and just and will remove you from all unrightiousness.

That is the truth. If you disagree with that, there is little I can do to change your mind.

If I did not have love, then I would not tell anyone where they were headed without Christ. Because I love, I can not let them keep on living with out knowing the truth. I can't make them accept the truth, nor will I try, but I will not be silenced from telling them the truth.

The literal translation has not and will never change. I have proven that tonight.


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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:hmmm.... i simply couldnt resist jumping in here briefly.

staying out of the actual debate detail.....

Written by:
Do you wish to try again? You have not won this round, nice try though.



Written by:
Flynt nothing has changed. You like Valura have not even checked the source, you have done none of your own research and are being foolish to take this joker at his own word.

Do your own research dont just quote any idiot you find on the web, because if someone like me can prove that those are not contradictions, without any formal Biblical Training, what do you think someone with a degree can do to them?




Written by:
The literal translation has not and will never change. I have proven that tonight.



i think burz, that perhaps you have to consider that the only person that you have proven your bible to is yourself - and perhaps any other christians who visit this thread.

will any arguement against the bible and its accuracy shake your faith? probably not - thats the nature of dedicated belief - just as argueing with dedication muslims, jews, isolated papau new guinea tribesmen about the validy of their reliigon and accuracy of the text the religion is based upion - will probably get no where.

do not assume we have not all done out research - i was a christian for a time, but lost it due to inconsistencies that i saw in the text, teaching, and religious institutions - but id rather not delve into that right now.

you will have an answer for almost everything that is thrown against you. id expect that - however my point is that is not because it is absolutely flawless - but its what you believe in - and unlikely to be shaken by rhetoric.

think yove won the round? proven your faith? surely the fact that no-one has miraculously cried 'hallelujah' in the middle of the thread indicated that we are not particularly overwhelmed by what you see as unshakable evidence.

Written by:
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a differnt result. How many times will I have to prove that the Bible is not false nor does it contain any contradictions before you accept it?



thats brilliant mate - do you realise that you ALSO are doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

insanity is a relative measure. my mind works differently from yours. am i insane? or are you? its not insanity - its comes down to a difference in beliefs, and a difference in thought process. many people think WE are insane because we play with fire!

i read the bible, i read the quotes - and believe they are inconsistencies. i studied religious history as a hobby for three years and saw enormous inconsistenies - but what my mind interprets as an inconsitency - you will see as proof. thats the nature of faith.

just as we are unlikely to convince you that youre wrong - you are also unlikey to convince us that your right, because we all have our own beliefs, morals, and thought processes.

i respect many christians for the strength of their faith, and for the way it has changed some of their lives for the better.
will you respect our beliefs?

happy debating! cool


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Burzaruka
enthusiast

Member Since: 13th Apr 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:Why dont you show me the inconsitancies then. If I am wrong show me, I dont want to be wrong. But if you cant show me that I am wrong, I simply ask that you not say that I am or that the Bible is.

Untill your 3 year study is shown to me I will not accept that you actually studied the Bible. If to you that means that I am calling you a liar, then so be it, but I stand on the proof that is, not the proof that you say exists yet fail to show.

I am not trying to be rude to you, what I am trying to do is to get you to prove, to back up, what you are saying with cold hard fact. And, if you can not, I will continue by asking you to hold off misleading people untill you can back up what you are saying.

"When all possibilities have been removed, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Shirlock Holms.


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arsn
arsn

How do you change this thing???
Location: Behind the couch...
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 1903
Posted:Written by:
Originally posted by Burzaruka

Valura, I am not forcing it on you, I have the freedom of speach and I am telling you what I believe and exorcising that freedom.





Well personally, after reading this whole thread you are forceing your opinions onto others and not giving others the chance to voice their opinions... just step back for a second and think, "Could I be wrong?". You do this and you'll allow your mind to stop being so closed.



Written by:
Originally posted by Burzaruka

My opinion of your life shouldnt be a concern of you. Just as your opinion of me and my life is not a concern of mine.





This is quiet simple to overcome... you ready... DON'T VOICE YOUR OPINONS ON OTHER PEOPLES LIVES!!!!



Written by:
Originally posted by Burzaruka

My sins, I have already answerd for





Does this mean you dead??? tell me, what's the view like from up there???



Written by:
Originally posted by you know who...

you have done none of your own research and are being foolish to take this joker at his own word.





Kinda funny when your taken the word of some dead guy yourself don't you think...



Now Burzaruka, I look forward to having you get come back in here and pull my post apart and tell me how I'm going to hell, because I'm so evil and I have different beliefs than you... wave


I can't hear you... I have a banana in my ear.

"You mean I'll have to use my brain?... but I use staff!!!" ~ ben-ja-men

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psycho44
psycho44

member

Member Since: 30th Jan 2004
Total posts: 56
Posted:I don't think that whether someone studied the bible or not is an issue here.People will continue to point out passages that they consider to be contradictions.And you will of course find a way to explain because you believe and your faith is unshakable.Telling them that they are going to hell means nothing to them if they do not believe.To us this statement is a fact, but to non-believers it feels like you are judging them.I don't think that saying something like that will help.Maybe if you explain why you think the passages are not contradictions then show them love and lead by example

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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:Written by:
I will continue by asking you to hold off misleading people untill you can back up what you are saying.


good idea.

"baza stop misleading people until you can back up what you are saying"

I find what you continue to say to me very offensive and if you insist on continuing to do it I will take it further. I have not once been offensive to you and I find it quite ironic that someone who is supposed to be living their life with love and compassion is behaving quite rudely. I have offered my side of the debate, with out pooh poohing yours, offering valid points to your arguement.

Im not worried that you are a christian, each to his own.

However I am offended that you continue to preach at me about hell, as it prooves that you have no respect for me.

prehaps you should step off your soap box.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Flynt
Flynt

Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:ah,
so
let me think of something that explains what I'm feeling right now.

One day I was measured at 6 feet tall and then three days later, I was measured at 5'10".

Oh dear me. I am inconsistant!

Here's the part where you chime up and say, NO NO! you were just slouching! Did you have heels on?

If i give you an inconsistancy, and you think hard enough about it, you will find someway to justify it, why? BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BELEIVE!

Thats rather commendable. I dont dissagree with any one's right to believe things.

What I do find offensive here is this:

At the start of this thread you asked people to point out inconsistancies in the bible. A few people thought to take up the challenge. What you didnt say was, Point out inconsistances so that I may then PREACH at you, and tell you that I believe you will go to hell.

That, friend, is not on. If you want an opportunity to evangelise, you should make your intention clear from the start, so lovely people such as Valura and Dentrassi (and myself) can simply ignore this poost.

Know why? Because no body needs to be preached at. If you want to share your faith, go right ahead, but in a more appropriate manner, and without judging people, or being antagonistic.

You catch more flies with honey.

And I would also suggest that before you accuse any one of not doing their own research, find out if they have read the bible. I have. I do not believe it to be infallible.


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:Written by:
you have done none of your own research and are being foolish to take this joker at his own word.



when i see your taped interview with God i'll become a christian (again) until then, you are doing exactly that - believeing the words that people have told you.

i can't prove you are wrong, and you most certainly cannot prove you are right - all we have are the words of others.

who told you god exists? why do you believe them? did you go and ask him?


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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falloutboy
falloutboy

remember
Location: Melbourne, Australia, Earth, M...
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 433
Posted:Written by: Burzaruka


Untill your 3 year study is shown to me I will not accept that you actually studied the Bible. If to you that means that I am calling you a liar, then so be it, but I stand on the proof that is, not the proof that you say exists yet fail to show.





Burzaruka, Burzaruka, Burzaruka - Where is your faith my son??

Goodness goodness me, you could cut the irony with an old boot. Perhaps it would be wise for you to try closing the book and opening your mind.. for just a little while.

The view is fantastic. smile





--------------------

-As angels debate chance and fate-

i was riding through melbourne on a midget giraffe, things were peachy.


-As angels debate chance and fate-
i was riding through melbourne on a midget giraffe, things were peachy.

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Burzaruka


Joeseph was Jesus' earthly father... but not biological wink Okay and to answer this one you have to have an NIV with foot notes, mine happens to have them and this is the answer



My mother and Autie used to be well into scrabble and spent many hours playing. Until my autie got hold of a 'special' scrabble dictionary and started coming out with loads of words no one had ever heard of. My mother ceased playing with her.

Maybe you're right, maybe every inconsistency in the bible can be resolved by scholars and justified by footnotes in your NIV.

But meanwhile people are finding other religious texts that actually make sense on the first read, or they're finding non religious sources of good common sense that teach them practical ways to find meaning and positivity in their lives.

And, while they are making good use of this information, the fundamentalists are preaching their old threats of hell, anti-gay, anti-women interpretations of a book which, by your own admission, requires a long and intense scolistic study before it even starts to make sense.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:and, on a more personal note: -

I think you should leave it, your present approach isn't going to sway anyone here and I suspect it's not going to do you much good either.

You are being offensive to some individuals, and your tone is arrogant
Written by: Burzaruka



hahahaahah read your contradictions!

......... Are you daft, is this a contradiction? No it is just quoting out of context.

Do you wish to try again? You have not won this round, nice try though.

...you have done none of your own research and are being foolish to take this joker at his own word.

Flynt, I believe that without change all men are destined for hell.




Things are not calming down, people are gathering against you because they're feeling wound up.

Far from convincing anyone to your point of view, you're now driving them further away with every word you say.

My advice is to walk away and examine the replies on this thread, not from a perspective of advancing your argument, but instead, look at how what you said has affected people and their responses.

Being surrounded by hostility is a nasty situation to be in, even in the context of an internet discussion forum it can push people over the edge. The tone of your replies is disturbingly reminiscient of some past HOP-ers who've been there. My advice is to leave this subject for a while, reflect, and post on something more pleasant/positive for a while.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:ubblol


that's all I have to say, apart from this 1 short sentance, that seems to be getting gradually longer, ok I'll go wave


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Burzaruka
enthusiast

Member Since: 13th Apr 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:Arsen, tell me, why is it okay for them to say that I am living my life wrong (by saying my religion is wrong they are saying my way of life is wrong as my religion is my way of life) and not for me to do the same?

I am not wrong, it isnt a matter of an open or closed mind. 2+2=4 it isnt wrong, it doesnt mean my mind is closed to math now does it?

I have answered for my sins by accepting the sacrifice that is Jesus Christ. Dead or alive, my sins are answerd for.

If you think that I am here to tell you that you are going to hell... then you are quite wrong. In this topic I am here to show that what is being said is truly garbage.

Psycho44 you are right. But if they dont believe that they are going to hell, why should they care that I do? If I am so wrong and the Bible is so wrong, why should they get offended about what I say?


Valura, I am sorry to offend you. You have not pointed out any valid contradictions as all you have spoken about I have disproved. I have proven my side, where is yours? Everything I have said I can and have backed up in black and white.

By simply not proving the Bible wrong, you prove it right.

Flynt, when I first spoke of Valura going to hell, she had yet to bring any passages to the table. So, since she wasnt playing by the rules, I didnt play by the rules and told her the truth.

If you know the truth and refuse to accept it, you will pay the price of your defiance and that payment is eternity in hell. I'm sorry if I was preaching, but dont tell me I am wrong unless you are willing for me to tell you the same.


Tao Star, every passage that Valura told me about, I went and read, the only time I referd to someone elses words was in the footnotes. My limited knowlege was not enough to answer those questions. I may consult others in my reply, but that is part of doing my own research.

Falloutboy, open my mind for me. Show me the error of my way, if you cant or are unwilling, then dont say that I am in error.


OneWheelDave, you are abosolutly right, there are simpler religions out there, there are even non-religious ways of life that seem to bring happiness. But there is only one way to heaven and those are not it. The question you must ask yourself, what is more important to you, happiness for 80-90 years, or happiness for eternity?

I never said that you need to study the Bible for a long time for it to make sence, but I will admit that the more you study it the more it makes sence, as with almost everything.

I have never said anything about anti women, and I am not anti gay, I do believe that it is wrong, but I am not against any gay person.

I will take your advice, and after I have replied to this I will take a break from this thread for a little while.


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Posted:I've tried to avoid getting into this....

Burz, which version of the bible are you refering to? Is it the King James version? Are you including Gnostic chapters? The Greek or Russian Orthodox? Do you read or write aramaic, greek, latin, old english or hebrew?

So many streams run down a mountain and yet you claim to know the one true river?


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the_seal
member
Location: Oz
Member Since: 18th Sep 2003
Total posts: 51
Posted:</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />

I am not wrong, it isnt a matter of an open or closed mind. 2+2=4 it isnt wrong, it doesnt mean my mind is closed to math now does it?





I'm going to stay out of the main religious debate and just point out the flaw in this statement.



Yes 2+2=4 can be wrong but who am I to judge if it is wrong? Just as, I guess, who are you to judge if others views are wrong.



Lets take 1+1=2 as an example first.



1+1=2

Correct in some forms, generally in our base 10 life. But some other possible answers to 1+1 are 0, 1, 10 or 5.



1+1=10

Also correct, if we are using a base 2 system, in which case it end up looking like this:



01

+01

___

=10



Or if we have



1

+1



Without leading zeros, which are generally dropped off, then we cannot possibly predict how the overflow in a base 2 world will be handled. The answer will be 0 or 1, but we don't know which.



Anyway, back to the point, 2+2=4 but not always. I prefer 2+2=5 but so many other possible answers exist and even though they may not be immediately identifiable by you, does this not mean the world is open to more interpretations than the single one you have focused on? In mathematics we look at other possible solutions rather than accepting there is only one answer. Might you not study what the Tanakh or Quaran before making a decision on what is right and more importantly who is right?



Food for thought

~~

Quick appendium to attempt to clarify my position:



What I am trying to get across is the point that there can be and probably is, more than one solution for every question. Whether any or all of them are right or wrong.

EDITED_BY: the_seal (1086209930)


By embodying a nolstalgia for the past in new materials we retard an acceptance of the present and by extension, the future, because the future is in the present
-Guerilla Television, 1971

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