Forums > Social Discussion > When does religion/medicine cross into abuse?
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playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
lifted from the homeopathy thread that was leaning off topic, I thought I'd start this.....
It started with this comment
My response is this........I'm kinda hung jury on this one, yes I don't agree with it by my own principles but I also believe we can't appropriately comment on another cultures befiefs. If they truly had this belief that stopped them administering the required medical attention they must have also believed they were doing the right thing by their religion/god etc. I've seen TV programs about the old Mauri tattoo techniques where they slice and lift off sections of skin before pouring in ink when the boys are 14 and that too could be called abuse, just like enforced circumcision for Jews (sp?) and many others can.
And with the thinking of circumcision, as most American males seem to have this done and at an age where they can't realistically refuse, for reasons of lessening sexual feelings wrapped around a myth of "improved cleanliness" is this abuse??
I can understand how this in itself can be abused and the hard position it makes for law making/enforcement etc.
Does anyone know what the child thought of this? Maybe the childs belief in this culture was also to refuse medical treatment, would it then still count as abuse?
So that it really, when does one cultures beliefs overtake anothers and when does the abuse start?
Does our belief in protecting human life at all costs overwrite anothers when the dieing person/their guardians/their parents believes they will be sent to a better place or re-born etc anyway?
Can religious practices be called abuse when they are practised on children who do not accept the beleif of their parents?
This isn't meant as a law debate or anything like that, I just wondered what folks thoughts on this very grey area were
lifted from the homeopathy thread that was leaning off topic, I thought I'd start this.....
It started with this comment
Quote:
....a family was taken to court for neglecting their child because he was dieing of something and they didnt belive in medical treatment in their religion, so they were just letting him die
My response is this........I'm kinda hung jury on this one, yes I don't agree with it by my own principles but I also believe we can't appropriately comment on another cultures befiefs. If they truly had this belief that stopped them administering the required medical attention they must have also believed they were doing the right thing by their religion/god etc. I've seen TV programs about the old Mauri tattoo techniques where they slice and lift off sections of skin before pouring in ink when the boys are 14 and that too could be called abuse, just like enforced circumcision for Jews (sp?) and many others can.
And with the thinking of circumcision, as most American males seem to have this done and at an age where they can't realistically refuse, for reasons of lessening sexual feelings wrapped around a myth of "improved cleanliness" is this abuse??
I can understand how this in itself can be abused and the hard position it makes for law making/enforcement etc.
Does anyone know what the child thought of this? Maybe the childs belief in this culture was also to refuse medical treatment, would it then still count as abuse?
So that it really, when does one cultures beliefs overtake anothers and when does the abuse start?
Does our belief in protecting human life at all costs overwrite anothers when the dieing person/their guardians/their parents believes they will be sent to a better place or re-born etc anyway?
Can religious practices be called abuse when they are practised on children who do not accept the beleif of their parents?
This isn't meant as a law debate or anything like that, I just wondered what folks thoughts on this very grey area were
Let's relight this forum 
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
Your idea that religion is the folly of mankinds advancment isnt very solid.
A lot of the ancient buildings had a good deal to do with our advancments. The Vatacin... it may be a waste of money, but the people chose to put their money into it. Who are you to tell them what to do with their own money? Yes a lot of good could have be done with their money, but to them, good was done.
However, there are trillions of dollars just sitting around in banks that could be going to better things than earning interest. Look at the pro ball players, millions of dollars, spent on what?? Some guy who can catch a ball? Throw a ball? Please! They are more of a drag on our technical evoloution than religion ever could be. Not everyone believes in God, but just about everyone believes in football! Ignore the player saleries, look at the stadiums. They only serve one purpose, to entertain! Look at TV look at the radio, look at the movies! Look at your chosen profession, talk about scamming those who have nothing. They come to you sick and dieing and you wont help them unless they can pay you. How cruel is that?
How can you blame relgion when our own current society is the biggest waste of money and natural resources than any single other era.
Your idea that religion is the folly of mankinds advancment isnt very solid.
A lot of the ancient buildings had a good deal to do with our advancments. The Vatacin... it may be a waste of money, but the people chose to put their money into it. Who are you to tell them what to do with their own money? Yes a lot of good could have be done with their money, but to them, good was done.
However, there are trillions of dollars just sitting around in banks that could be going to better things than earning interest. Look at the pro ball players, millions of dollars, spent on what?? Some guy who can catch a ball? Throw a ball? Please! They are more of a drag on our technical evoloution than religion ever could be. Not everyone believes in God, but just about everyone believes in football! Ignore the player saleries, look at the stadiums. They only serve one purpose, to entertain! Look at TV look at the radio, look at the movies! Look at your chosen profession, talk about scamming those who have nothing. They come to you sick and dieing and you wont help them unless they can pay you. How cruel is that?
How can you blame relgion when our own current society is the biggest waste of money and natural resources than any single other era.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I can't tell them what to do. I would never do that.
But I can lament the... sheesh, how much money does the Vatican have, anyways? The jewels, the art, the buildings, the...
Wow.
Quote:
A lot of the ancient buildings had a good deal to do with our advancments. The Vatacin... it may be a waste of money, but the people chose to put their money into it. Who are you to tell them what to do with their own money? Yes a lot of good could have be done with their money, but to them, good was done.
I can't tell them what to do. I would never do that.
But I can lament the... sheesh, how much money does the Vatican have, anyways? The jewels, the art, the buildings, the...
Wow.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
How much money does Bill Gates have? How much money does Shaq have, Koby? Why are blaming the vatican for having money when there are people who have a whole heap of money just for themselves!
If I am wrong I apologise, but you are angry at religion. Why? Maybe it is because it doesnt accept you as who you are. Whatever your grievences are it doesnt mean that religion is the cause of the worlds problems. That is your own personal dogma.
How much money does Bill Gates have? How much money does Shaq have, Koby? Why are blaming the vatican for having money when there are people who have a whole heap of money just for themselves!
If I am wrong I apologise, but you are angry at religion. Why? Maybe it is because it doesnt accept you as who you are. Whatever your grievences are it doesnt mean that religion is the cause of the worlds problems. That is your own personal dogma.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
No, Judaism ("my" religion) accepts me.
But when I see people hugging the Bible as they spout hatred, when I see places of worship used as public "support groups" for hatemongers, when I see children thrown out of families by "god-fearing" parents, when I see people beaten, killed, tortured, and driven out of their homes all because of religion...
And then when I see religion trying to interfere with proper medical care and the advancement of science, it just makes me mad.
If not for Bush, we probably would be able to grow our first artificial organs by 2015. Because of him, it will be delayed AT LEAST 5 years, maybe more.
No, Judaism ("my" religion) accepts me.
But when I see people hugging the Bible as they spout hatred, when I see places of worship used as public "support groups" for hatemongers, when I see children thrown out of families by "god-fearing" parents, when I see people beaten, killed, tortured, and driven out of their homes all because of religion...
And then when I see religion trying to interfere with proper medical care and the advancement of science, it just makes me mad.
If not for Bush, we probably would be able to grow our first artificial organs by 2015. Because of him, it will be delayed AT LEAST 5 years, maybe more.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
I didnt know that Judaisim accepts homosexuality as a perfectly Godly thing.
I didnt know that Judaisim accepts homosexuality as a perfectly Godly thing.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
then you obviously are not aware of any jewish denominations apart from devout orthodox.
some things ya know, some things ya don't - now you know.
"...there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." -- The Honorable D.H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
then you obviously are not aware of any jewish denominations apart from devout orthodox.
some things ya know, some things ya don't - now you know.
"...there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." -- The Honorable D.H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
ok that's enough. Burz take it elsewhere please
Anyone else wanna get this personal use a PM or keep your mouth shut, I started this thread and now asking for it to be closed, it's completely hijacked and way outta line.
To continue a "decent" religious debate please find one of the many other religious threads.
ok that's enough. Burz take it elsewhere please
Anyone else wanna get this personal use a PM or keep your mouth shut, I started this thread and now asking for it to be closed, it's completely hijacked and way outta line.
To continue a "decent" religious debate please find one of the many other religious threads.
Let's relight this forum
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
p.s. Thanks cole, you're so eloquent and your timing is impecible.
p.s. Thanks cole, you're so eloquent and your timing is impecible.
Let's relight this forum
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
just a reminder -
you can argue with each other, but some of you are skating close to being personally insulting. This wont be tolerated.
If you have a problem with this, PM me and we can chat about it.
Josh
just a reminder -
you can argue with each other, but some of you are skating close to being personally insulting. This wont be tolerated.
If you have a problem with this, PM me and we can chat about it.
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
You got it. Sorry this thread didn't give what you wanted, it had alot of potential.
Kindest Regards!
P~
Quote:
Anyone else wanna get this personal use a PM or keep your mouth shut, I started this thread and now asking for it to be closed, it's completely hijacked and way outta line.
To continue a "decent" religious debate please find one of the many other religious threads.
You got it. Sorry this thread didn't give what you wanted, it had alot of potential.
Kindest Regards!
P~
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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