Forums > Social Discussion > Fire ettiquette?
Login/Join to ParticipateAnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
"Technique?" brings up another question. What is the "fire ettiquette" where you come from? What are the does and don'ts? Diana
"Technique?" brings up another question. What is the "fire ettiquette" where you come from? What are the does and don'ts? Diana
member
118 posts
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
118 posts
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
Posted:
**Thank you** for bringing up this topic! It is something that I often find myself complaining about, but don't often do anything about other than mutter threats under my breath. I suppose that in a lot of ways, this topic applies to all performance, but there are added safety issues here that are important.
**Thank you** for bringing up this topic! It is something that I often find myself complaining about, but don't often do anything about other than mutter threats under my breath. I suppose that in a lot of ways, this topic applies to all performance, but there are added safety issues here that are important.
BRONZE Member
member
107 posts
Location: east randolph, VT USA
member
107 posts
Location: east randolph, VT USA
Posted:
i think my single biggest etiquette thought (and granted, i've only ever spun with 4 other people) is "don't get to close to me", closely followed by "don't be stupid". (wait. maybe reverse that.) i don't want to have to think about a little piece of flaming poi hitting me or someone else if it could have been avoided. i also don't want to have to worry about someone spinning off right behind me or even just stupidly walking too close to me. if i'm spinning, i want to be thinking about the fire, and how it's affecting me, and how i'm affecting those watching me - i don't want to be distracted by people doing dumb things. that's prolly pretty crude, but that's what i think so far. i'm sure that after the east coast spin party, once i've had some insane number of near-strangers all spinning in my back field, i'll have more to contribute.
i think i also feel a pretty weird about people spinning under the influence of whatever. it's never happened, but the idea makes me kinda nervous. prolly cause i don't now how graceful *i* could be, so i project on other people. or maybe that just falls under "don't be stupid". not enough data...
i think my single biggest etiquette thought (and granted, i've only ever spun with 4 other people) is "don't get to close to me", closely followed by "don't be stupid". (wait. maybe reverse that.) i don't want to have to think about a little piece of flaming poi hitting me or someone else if it could have been avoided. i also don't want to have to worry about someone spinning off right behind me or even just stupidly walking too close to me. if i'm spinning, i want to be thinking about the fire, and how it's affecting me, and how i'm affecting those watching me - i don't want to be distracted by people doing dumb things. that's prolly pretty crude, but that's what i think so far. i'm sure that after the east coast spin party, once i've had some insane number of near-strangers all spinning in my back field, i'll have more to contribute.
i think i also feel a pretty weird about people spinning under the influence of whatever. it's never happened, but the idea makes me kinda nervous. prolly cause i don't now how graceful *i* could be, so i project on other people. or maybe that just falls under "don't be stupid". not enough data... member
148 posts
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
148 posts
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Posted:
Ive never met another local spinner, so I get to make up the rules ! But the worst, is the stupid people who stand right next to you and talk, and your trying you hardest not to peg them with whatever happens to be on the end of your cable. But,that was another topic.-PSM
Ive never met another local spinner, so I get to make up the rules ! But the worst, is the stupid people who stand right next to you and talk, and your trying you hardest not to peg them with whatever happens to be on the end of your cable. But,that was another topic.-PSM
One can only see what one observes, and one observes only things which are already in the mind.-Alphonse Bertillon
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Because we are so isolated I have given this topic thought from the perspective of what precident would I like to establish.-Of course, my first and greatest expectation is that if someone were to come to my area that they don't perform my moves. That would be very not nice. I also do not believe in doing that to anyone else. This is in reference to those moves or style or presentations which are truly unique. If I showed up somewhere and saw my swinging Ren Show being presented I would be furious and heartbroken, I would never inflict that upon anyone else.-I personally don't believe that substance use should have anythign to do with performing. As jokes, yes, in reality no. I don't judge those who think otherwise, I just don't agree with it myself.-Safety protocols are followed to the highest degree. If one performer doesn't folow any, it can make all the others be looked at with question.-I believe that a dialogue should be opened with any other (fire) performers that might be in the same venue. This is to make certain we aren't doing the same thing or stepping on toes. In fact, there are a couple venues where it states in our contract that we are the sole fire performers. This is not to limit anyone from performing but Ren Faires tend to be a strange beast where duplicate acts are not welcomed by the crowd, so it really is a first come first served contract of sorts.-I always believe in asking people how they do something, talking, comparing notes and making friends. If I come up with a possible alternate form of making something of theirs my own, I still ask. -If I want to be taught, I ask. If I am told no, I seek elsewhere. I never give credit where it is not wanted.-I am a very vocal person (can't tell I am a chatterbox, eh?), so I have no problem standing up for myself, or any underdog, in a respectful yet assertive way. -I enjoy *constructive* critisism. I love it when it is thoughtful and poignant. It has caused me to evolve so much in the past. I try to not take it personally as I know it is for my development and good.-I think shows should have a format that is rehearsed to the point of sleep. I love freestyling but for those venues which I work, it simply doesn't do without at least an outline to follow.-I think there should be a audience rapport that is never breached. A performer should never become violent or insulting with a discourteous crowd. That there should always be a level of control, even if the fire is burning down the building around you. I also think there are right and wrong ways to handle personal space issues but that it should *never* come down to threatening anyone with your tools. -I believe in honoring professional agreements fully, if I say I am going to be there, I am. If the venue says they are going to deliver something, they do. -I believe in promoting myself and not badmouthing someone else to make me look good. There have been a few instances of this, not in the fire ring, but more staged comedy/juggling where to get into a faire one group will bad talk another, while one group only promotes themselves..never addressing the "rival". The second usually prevails.-I believe I am my own best advocate. If I don't represent myself in a way I find becoming, I can't expect anyone else to. -The last one that comes to mind is one I have seen and experienced. It's called "walking into an established corwd".This is where you see a group of people watching someone and thinking this would be a good time to perform, since there is an instant crowd there. The problem with this is that those people are focussing attention elsewhere for a reason. To "steal" a crowd is just as bad as stealing a move in my eyes.It shows a blatant disrespect for the audience, for fellow performers as well as a probably wrongly inflated ego on the "thiefs" part, for it sends out the message that s/he beieves themself to be more interesting than whomever else is performing. This makes enemies very quickly!!! I have had people try this and "Pele" the character will call them out from the stage on it, which embarrasses them and sends them scurrying away, much like a teacher who forces the student to read the note for the class.Consistency, Growth, Respect (personal and otherwise), Professionalism and Passion are what I think it all comes down to. At least IMHO.Because of my limited exposure to other fire performers in rl, I found this difficult to answer. Though I have been performing I also know that these repects cross the lines into all of the arts. I wouldn't want anyone reading a poem of mine at a poetry slam if I've told them no (it's happened), or copying some element of one of my sketches and presenting it as their own. Copyright and such are a big part of Faire life as well, and I have learned alot from it.Hope this helps in some miniscule way, though I am anxious to learn what others have to say.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 20 February 2001).][This message has been edited by Pele (edited 21 February 2001).]
Because we are so isolated I have given this topic thought from the perspective of what precident would I like to establish.-Of course, my first and greatest expectation is that if someone were to come to my area that they don't perform my moves. That would be very not nice. I also do not believe in doing that to anyone else. This is in reference to those moves or style or presentations which are truly unique. If I showed up somewhere and saw my swinging Ren Show being presented I would be furious and heartbroken, I would never inflict that upon anyone else.-I personally don't believe that substance use should have anythign to do with performing. As jokes, yes, in reality no. I don't judge those who think otherwise, I just don't agree with it myself.-Safety protocols are followed to the highest degree. If one performer doesn't folow any, it can make all the others be looked at with question.-I believe that a dialogue should be opened with any other (fire) performers that might be in the same venue. This is to make certain we aren't doing the same thing or stepping on toes. In fact, there are a couple venues where it states in our contract that we are the sole fire performers. This is not to limit anyone from performing but Ren Faires tend to be a strange beast where duplicate acts are not welcomed by the crowd, so it really is a first come first served contract of sorts.-I always believe in asking people how they do something, talking, comparing notes and making friends. If I come up with a possible alternate form of making something of theirs my own, I still ask. -If I want to be taught, I ask. If I am told no, I seek elsewhere. I never give credit where it is not wanted.-I am a very vocal person (can't tell I am a chatterbox, eh?
), so I have no problem standing up for myself, or any underdog, in a respectful yet assertive way. -I enjoy *constructive* critisism. I love it when it is thoughtful and poignant. It has caused me to evolve so much in the past. I try to not take it personally as I know it is for my development and good.-I think shows should have a format that is rehearsed to the point of sleep. I love freestyling but for those venues which I work, it simply doesn't do without at least an outline to follow.-I think there should be a audience rapport that is never breached. A performer should never become violent or insulting with a discourteous crowd. That there should always be a level of control, even if the fire is burning down the building around you. I also think there are right and wrong ways to handle personal space issues but that it should *never* come down to threatening anyone with your tools. -I believe in honoring professional agreements fully, if I say I am going to be there, I am. If the venue says they are going to deliver something, they do. -I believe in promoting myself and not badmouthing someone else to make me look good. There have been a few instances of this, not in the fire ring, but more staged comedy/juggling where to get into a faire one group will bad talk another, while one group only promotes themselves..never addressing the "rival". The second usually prevails.-I believe I am my own best advocate. If I don't represent myself in a way I find becoming, I can't expect anyone else to. -The last one that comes to mind is one I have seen and experienced. It's called "walking into an established corwd".This is where you see a group of people watching someone and thinking this would be a good time to perform, since there is an instant crowd there. The problem with this is that those people are focussing attention elsewhere for a reason. To "steal" a crowd is just as bad as stealing a move in my eyes.It shows a blatant disrespect for the audience, for fellow performers as well as a probably wrongly inflated ego on the "thiefs" part, for it sends out the message that s/he beieves themself to be more interesting than whomever else is performing. This makes enemies very quickly!!! I have had people try this and "Pele" the character will call them out from the stage on it, which embarrasses them and sends them scurrying away, much like a teacher who forces the student to read the note for the class.Consistency, Growth, Respect (personal and otherwise), Professionalism and Passion are what I think it all comes down to. At least IMHO.Because of my limited exposure to other fire performers in rl, I found this difficult to answer. Though I have been performing I also know that these repects cross the lines into all of the arts. I wouldn't want anyone reading a poem of mine at a poetry slam if I've told them no (it's happened), or copying some element of one of my sketches and presenting it as their own. Copyright and such are a big part of Faire life as well, and I have learned alot from it.Hope this helps in some miniscule way, though I am anxious to learn what others have to say.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 20 February 2001).][This message has been edited by Pele (edited 21 February 2001).] Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
I had a very interesting experience on the weekend.want to here about breaching ettiquette?So my gf and I light up at this festival, and attract a decent crowd, we arent busking, just having fun fresstylin' you know how it is...And a friend of ours is watching from the sidelines, looking after the fuel etc etc.So this woman walks up and says something to her about how she wants us to come and work at one of the festivals she is organising. Now there is this other person who shall remain nameless standing nearby who represents a different group of fire twirlers. She sidles up to our potential client, and starts trying to give her THEIR number! The woman was impressed with us, and this girl is trying to take credit for it!Anyhow, my friend just turns to the promoter, and says 'Look, Kate and Josh dont have anything to do with **** ******** ****** (business name deleted) you should talk to them directly. So the promoter starts questioning this girl. So Do Josh and Kate work with you? and She says Yes!!! The Nerve! by then I'm winding up, and so I start to walk over, the girl then backpedals a bit and says...well not really...then she kinda walks off.Soo...we ended up with a promoter who wants to hire us for a few festivals starting in November...but only cuz our quick thinking friend was there to head off the credit thief!How about that!ANNYHOW I just needed to get that out
I see it this way. If you want a move of mine, I'll give it to you gladly. The more decent spinners there are, the happier I am (unless you try to take credit for inventing the move or stealing our contracts etc).If a move can be picked up in a night, its hardly worth worrying about losing it (IMO). By the time someone rips off all my moves, I'll have developed new ones, or new transitions, or more fluidity; whatever.I guess if I was relying on a bunch of moves and wasnt developing new ones and couldnt see how to improve, then I might be worried about ppl taking the moves.I agree about the across the room ripping thing tho, if you want a move of mine, dont rip it from across the room. I'll give it to you, but be nice!Its like ppl who walk up without saying hello and ask to borrow your stuff and / or fuel.Please say hello at least! Josh
I had a very interesting experience on the weekend.want to here about breaching ettiquette?So my gf and I light up at this festival, and attract a decent crowd, we arent busking, just having fun fresstylin' you know how it is...And a friend of ours is watching from the sidelines, looking after the fuel etc etc.So this woman walks up and says something to her about how she wants us to come and work at one of the festivals she is organising. Now there is this other person who shall remain nameless standing nearby who represents a different group of fire twirlers. She sidles up to our potential client, and starts trying to give her THEIR number! The woman was impressed with us, and this girl is trying to take credit for it!Anyhow, my friend just turns to the promoter, and says 'Look, Kate and Josh dont have anything to do with **** ******** ****** (business name deleted) you should talk to them directly. So the promoter starts questioning this girl. So Do Josh and Kate work with you? and She says Yes!!! The Nerve! by then I'm winding up, and so I start to walk over, the girl then backpedals a bit and says...well not really...then she kinda walks off.Soo...we ended up with a promoter who wants to hire us for a few festivals starting in November...but only cuz our quick thinking friend was there to head off the credit thief!How about that!ANNYHOW I just needed to get that out
I see it this way. If you want a move of mine, I'll give it to you gladly. The more decent spinners there are, the happier I am (unless you try to take credit for inventing the move or stealing our contracts etc).If a move can be picked up in a night, its hardly worth worrying about losing it (IMO). By the time someone rips off all my moves, I'll have developed new ones, or new transitions, or more fluidity; whatever.I guess if I was relying on a bunch of moves and wasnt developing new ones and couldnt see how to improve, then I might be worried about ppl taking the moves.I agree about the across the room ripping thing tho, if you want a move of mine, dont rip it from across the room. I'll give it to you, but be nice!Its like ppl who walk up without saying hello and ask to borrow your stuff and / or fuel.Please say hello at least! Josh member
341 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
341 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
I love this board.As someone who has learnt the art of poi in isolation and is only now venturing out into the firey world, this kind of information is invaluable.Thank you Diana, Pele and Josh.Diana,The threads you start are so much more interesting than your average run of the mill 'Help, I can't get the 5 beat weave' kind of thread.Please, never stop posting Finn
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I love this board.
As someone who has learnt the art of poi in isolation and is only now venturing out into the firey world, this kind of information is invaluable.Thank you Diana, Pele and Josh.Diana,The threads you start are so much more interesting than your average run of the mill 'Help, I can't get the 5 beat weave' kind of thread.Please, never stop posting Finn Non-Https Image Link
member
61 posts
Location: currently in..... Perth WA
61 posts
Location: currently in..... Perth WA
Posted:
hear hear, finn!!! josh, thats a sad story, should've let them take credit, then embarrass themselves when they couldn't perform!!!Anyway, dont know why but manchester seems to have a disgusting amount of poiers! 
there's probably at least a dozen who regularly attend our club, so i've had loads of practice playing with other people.i think that because we all poi together so often that there is a sense of respect to each other within the group. When a stranger (or new friend as i like to call them) begins with us, they sense this and tend to appreciate our ettiquette and routines. One thing i don't like is when somebody asks to borrow your poi, and then lends them to somebody else without asking you!!Then you look round and your poi are nowhere to be seen!! Maybe the atmos is too friendly. DO: ask to borrow my poi also DO: make your own poi if you get into it, dont be a poi borrower.DO: ask me how to do a trick also DO: make up your own tricksDO: keep an eye on me when i'm flamin - an i'll keep one on you.DON'T: steal poi. This is low.generally, be nice. 
hear hear, finn!!! josh, thats a sad story, should've let them take credit, then embarrass themselves when they couldn't perform
!!!Anyway, dont know why but manchester seems to have a disgusting amount of poiers! there's probably at least a dozen who regularly attend our club, so i've had loads of practice playing with other people.i think that because we all poi together so often that there is a sense of respect to each other within the group. When a stranger (or new friend as i like to call them) begins with us, they sense this and tend to appreciate our ettiquette and routines. One thing i don't like is when somebody asks to borrow your poi, and then lends them to somebody else without asking you!!Then you look round and your poi are nowhere to be seen!! Maybe the atmos is too friendly. DO: ask to borrow my poi also DO: make your own poi if you get into it, dont be a poi borrower.DO: ask me how to do a trick also DO: make up your own tricksDO: keep an eye on me when i'm flamin - an i'll keep one on you.DON'T: steal poi. This is low.generally, be nice. member
118 posts
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
118 posts
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
Posted:
Sounds like Pele and I have a lot of the same pet peeves... I haven't as of yet had to share a firey venu, as there are precious few fire performers in Pittsburgh, and we have chosen venues for ourselves which don't over lap at all - however these rules of etiquette apply to more than fire! They apply to anything from dressage to figure skating... So here's what I've got to add:1. If someone else was performing (esp. relating to performances that run along the same lines... Not so much if I'm performing with fire, and you are a horse and pony show...) in a venue first, give them the courtesy of asking them what the rules are. It will save you from inadvertantly stepping on anyone's toes, and it also shows them the respect they deserve for "loosening" a venue that **you** might not otherwise have.2. No matter how unreasonable they may seem, **follow the rules of that venue!!** Now before I have a whole bunch of my (dear) safety consious friends howling at me, I'm talking about rules that may not seem to relate to what you're doing (Like at the one club where I perform, I have to tip the valet - even though I ride the bus. This seems stupid, and it doesn't relate to my performance... But it's a prime example of what I'm talking about...) and not rules where safety is a factor. If they want you to violate your own safety rules, please read the thread on Pele's costume dilemma. At any rate, you may not notice it but there are a lot of places that are just looking for a reason to ban all fire (insert performance of choice here) performers, and they may not care whether performer x is very professional and safe, while performer y is causing all the problems. In their minds, we might as well be the same person. So it is important that this "person" who represents something they don't understand, be courteous and professional at ALL times. Your actions do not **just** reflect upon you.3. If I am performing at a venue already, I might be charging that venue for my services. If you have the same idea in mind, I may be receptive or not to the idea of sharing, but whether we are cooperative or competetive, DON'T under cut my rates. (This is a common sense issue. I'm not saying it has to be a hard and fast rule. There is such a thing as over charging, but I rarely find that to be a problem...) You will only be shooting yourself in the foot. If necessary, charge the same price as me and deliver a higher quality performance, but driving down the community worth just to get your foot in the door was never helpful to anyone...4. I am almost always willing to teach my tricks to others, but what I love most is swapping tricks. I am 10 times more likely to want to teach you a skill (that may make you one of my main competetors) if you bring one of your own skills to offer in exchange. It may not be a skill of the same craft. Just be as generous with me as you are asking me to be with you! (A good example of this is when I first started dancing at my club. I found the pole work of one of the dancers to be stunning and original, and more than anything I wanted to learn. So I looked for something I had that she didn't - original costuming! I traded her one of my costume patterns for each pole trick she taught me...) 5. Once I teach you a trick - OWN IT! Don't be afraid to change it to make it different from the way I originally taught it to you. Those pole tricks I traded for 2 years ago now look nothing like what I was taught! I built on the basic skills she gave me, and now, if we were still performing in the same venue, we could perform that **same** trick at the same time, and no one would realize that Renee taught it to me. - Pele already mentioned this one, but I've just got to say **ditto** on that whole audience thiefing issue. There are many instances where I **know** that I can deliver a performance better than the person who's delivering it... But that doesn't give me the right to open my mouth, or try to upstage them. My turn will come eventually, and people can come to their own conclusion, without me trying to make myself, or anyone else look like an idiot. In a business that can be as un-popular as ours (the audiences love it, but most venues think of us as something that must be **tolerated** to draw a crowd) it is very important to show a responsible and cohesive membership at all times! If you think you can do better than someone else, then give them some **constructive** criticism! They might appreciate it!Jesse
Sounds like Pele and I have a lot of the same pet peeves... I haven't as of yet had to share a firey venu, as there are precious few fire performers in Pittsburgh, and we have chosen venues for ourselves which don't over lap at all - however these rules of etiquette apply to more than fire! They apply to anything from dressage to figure skating... So here's what I've got to add:1. If someone else was performing (esp. relating to performances that run along the same lines... Not so much if I'm performing with fire, and you are a horse and pony show...) in a venue first, give them the courtesy of asking them what the rules are. It will save you from inadvertantly stepping on anyone's toes, and it also shows them the respect they deserve for "loosening" a venue that **you** might not otherwise have.2. No matter how unreasonable they may seem, **follow the rules of that venue!!** Now before I have a whole bunch of my (dear) safety consious friends howling at me, I'm talking about rules that may not seem to relate to what you're doing (Like at the one club where I perform, I have to tip the valet - even though I ride the bus. This seems stupid, and it doesn't relate to my performance... But it's a prime example of what I'm talking about...) and not rules where safety is a factor. If they want you to violate your own safety rules, please read the thread on Pele's costume dilemma. At any rate, you may not notice it but there are a lot of places that are just looking for a reason to ban all fire (insert performance of choice here) performers, and they may not care whether performer x is very professional and safe, while performer y is causing all the problems. In their minds, we might as well be the same person. So it is important that this "person" who represents something they don't understand, be courteous and professional at ALL times. Your actions do not **just** reflect upon you.3. If I am performing at a venue already, I might be charging that venue for my services. If you have the same idea in mind, I may be receptive or not to the idea of sharing, but whether we are cooperative or competetive, DON'T under cut my rates. (This is a common sense issue. I'm not saying it has to be a hard and fast rule. There is such a thing as over charging, but I rarely find that to be a problem...) You will only be shooting yourself in the foot. If necessary, charge the same price as me and deliver a higher quality performance, but driving down the community worth just to get your foot in the door was never helpful to anyone...4. I am almost always willing to teach my tricks to others, but what I love most is swapping tricks. I am 10 times more likely to want to teach you a skill (that may make you one of my main competetors) if you bring one of your own skills to offer in exchange. It may not be a skill of the same craft. Just be as generous with me as you are asking me to be with you! (A good example of this is when I first started dancing at my club. I found the pole work of one of the dancers to be stunning and original, and more than anything I wanted to learn. So I looked for something I had that she didn't - original costuming! I traded her one of my costume patterns for each pole trick she taught me...) 5. Once I teach you a trick - OWN IT! Don't be afraid to change it to make it different from the way I originally taught it to you. Those pole tricks I traded for 2 years ago now look nothing like what I was taught! I built on the basic skills she gave me, and now, if we were still performing in the same venue, we could perform that **same** trick at the same time, and no one would realize that Renee taught it to me. - Pele already mentioned this one, but I've just got to say **ditto** on that whole audience thiefing issue. There are many instances where I **know** that I can deliver a performance better than the person who's delivering it... But that doesn't give me the right to open my mouth, or try to upstage them. My turn will come eventually, and people can come to their own conclusion, without me trying to make myself, or anyone else look like an idiot. In a business that can be as un-popular as ours (the audiences love it, but most venues think of us as something that must be **tolerated** to draw a crowd) it is very important to show a responsible and cohesive membership at all times! If you think you can do better than someone else, then give them some **constructive** criticism! They might appreciate it!Jesse
GOLD Member
member
44 posts
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand
member
44 posts
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
Yet another fabulous thread!! I'm travelling at the mo', so havent been here in a bit, glad to see things are burning brightly as ever! Yes! Everything everyone has to say so far on fire ettiquite is right on! My 2 cents... If you're a so called "group", make sure you discuss all possible venues with every member... if a venue calls for 4, and there's 5, discuss it with everyone 1st! Not cool ettiquite (IMO) to decide without EVERYONE's input... Also, if you're doin' the group thing... be real clear on focus/goals/wants/needs... Obviously I've had an uncool experience (IMO), I'm still not sure if the "group" left me out, well actually, asked me last when one other person bowed out, if its because they thought I always wanna do fire devil sticks, which I dont.. or if its cuz they thought I sucked at poi and staff, and didnt have the ovaries/balls to tell me so... or what! Maybe I'm just being oversensitive? Regardless, I had my little fairie feelings hurt by this kind of miss communications within a "group" dynamic... so I'm xtremely leary of "group" stuff now... Hope people can avoid this kinda thing by having clear fire ettiquite type thing happening, y'know, respect, communication n'stuff. And gee whiz! I'm open to constuctive critism, thats a part of what I imagine this fire ettiquite can encompass. Happy safe spinning all! Fairie Firebell :-)
Yet another fabulous thread!! I'm travelling at the mo', so havent been here in a bit, glad to see things are burning brightly as ever! Yes! Everything everyone has to say so far on fire ettiquite is right on! My 2 cents... If you're a so called "group", make sure you discuss all possible venues with every member... if a venue calls for 4, and there's 5, discuss it with everyone 1st! Not cool ettiquite (IMO) to decide without EVERYONE's input... Also, if you're doin' the group thing... be real clear on focus/goals/wants/needs... Obviously I've had an uncool experience (IMO), I'm still not sure if the "group" left me out, well actually, asked me last when one other person bowed out, if its because they thought I always wanna do fire devil sticks, which I dont.. or if its cuz they thought I sucked at poi and staff, and didnt have the ovaries/balls to tell me so... or what! Maybe I'm just being oversensitive? Regardless, I had my little fairie feelings hurt by this kind of miss communications within a "group" dynamic... so I'm xtremely leary of "group" stuff now... Hope people can avoid this kinda thing by having clear fire ettiquite type thing happening, y'know, respect, communication n'stuff. And gee whiz! I'm open to constuctive critism, thats a part of what I imagine this fire ettiquite can encompass. Happy safe spinning all! Fairie Firebell :-)
Fairie's wear boots.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
This also applies to the whole what is professionalism thread so...*bump*
This also applies to the whole what is professionalism thread so...*bump*
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Posted:
what do you all do to get drunks to
off when your sppining and there right infront of you and often getting closer trying to have a go while youre spinning
what do you all do to get drunks to
off when your sppining and there right infront of you and often getting closer trying to have a go while youre spinning UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."
Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Have my safety run interference. It is part of their job description. If I am at a club, we get their security to do so, as that is their job description.
Have my safety run interference. It is part of their job description. If I am at a club, we get their security to do so, as that is their job description.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
GOLD Member
Member
8 posts
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA
Member
8 posts
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA
Posted:
Ive been doing fire with the sisters and gf for a few years now in the areas around me. We have always done it just for fun and relaxation. About 9 months ago me and one of the sisters started to get asked to bring our fire stuff to some local festivals and raves. We always said sure since it was always our friends that were the promoters.
Fast foward 6 months and we started to bring our toys to other festivals out of state, and finally about 3 months ago we met other fire spinners (wow that took forever). They were actually paid to be there (we came for the music), but loved the fact we brought our toys out, and were more then happy to meet us and talk and they had zero problems with us spinning fire those evenings also.
SInce then we have run into other fire groups at festivals and we always communicate with them before hand, and share in with the crowds. We now have extended families of performing groups outside of our state that I believe we made by doing what we thought we would want others to do with us.
I always try to offer a common value trade with moves, costume ideas, and so on. It tends to work best (IMO).
Ive been doing fire with the sisters and gf for a few years now in the areas around me. We have always done it just for fun and relaxation. About 9 months ago me and one of the sisters started to get asked to bring our fire stuff to some local festivals and raves. We always said sure since it was always our friends that were the promoters.
Fast foward 6 months and we started to bring our toys to other festivals out of state, and finally about 3 months ago we met other fire spinners (wow that took forever). They were actually paid to be there (we came for the music), but loved the fact we brought our toys out, and were more then happy to meet us and talk and they had zero problems with us spinning fire those evenings also.
SInce then we have run into other fire groups at festivals and we always communicate with them before hand, and share in with the crowds. We now have extended families of performing groups outside of our state that I believe we made by doing what we thought we would want others to do with us.
I always try to offer a common value trade with moves, costume ideas, and so on. It tends to work best (IMO).
SILVER Member
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
Posted:
the rules i spin fire by, and generally spin by
1) I dont mind people watching, but i'm not a performing moneky, i spin when i want
2) if i am spinning, use your common sence, poi hurt you and me
3) dont try to steal other people limelight, if they are performing or teaching, let them, or even watch and get a different point of view
4) dont spin off fuel, its just not nice
and
5) if i want to learn something i will ask, dont force feed me new trick when i dont want them
...wow i sound quite violent!! im not really im lovely and fluffy!!!
the rules i spin fire by, and generally spin by
1) I dont mind people watching, but i'm not a performing moneky, i spin when i want
2) if i am spinning, use your common sence, poi hurt you and me
3) dont try to steal other people limelight, if they are performing or teaching, let them, or even watch and get a different point of view
4) dont spin off fuel, its just not nice
and
5) if i want to learn something i will ask, dont force feed me new trick when i dont want them
...wow i sound quite violent!! im not really im lovely and fluffy!!!
Proudly Owned By The BMVC
Are You Sniffing My Mitten?
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Interesting to see this thread revived after so many years.
Reading some of the early threads, particularly Pele's, I notice how focused they are on performance, particularly, it seems, on commercial performance. This brings in an emphasis on ettiquette concerning competitiveness/exclusivness/defending 'copyright', dodgy business tactics and so on.
I am quite familiar with the commercial aspects of fire and other circus arts. My own involvement however is the wider world of community/friendship based spinning: there are far far more people involved at this level than there are professional performers. I wonder if this is also an area that has increased since the original posting of this thread: that playing with fire is less and less seen as an exclusive/heroic/unusual thing to do: that is has been demystified and democratised to some extent. Fire and other spinning here is MUCH more associated with freestyle/feral/forest/festival than performance/theatre/stage/paid security.
At the same time general skill levels have increased enormously as people have shared and developed their own repertoires/styles, and that of the form in general. That would in turn push the standard required to be a standout or professional performer...and either make them more nervous of 'copyright'... more distinctive and stylish in how they do 'standard' moves.. or more creative and innovative... hence the increasing inclusion of quality dance/comedy etc in shows. Similar things have happened in baton spinning/iceskating/drumming... all sorts of physical forms that cross over between public fun and performance/competition.
Anway, in my view, etiquette in my community (Australia, particularly Brisbane) includes:
* sharing and teaching each other moves and sequences. It would be rude to say 'no this is my move' or to resent that someone else had learned how to do it, with or without 'asking' you or needing your help to learn it.
* also sharing and teaching how to make toys/get fuels etc
* including newbies and never shaming/patronising people over their skill levels. I was thinking back to another series of threads too and realise it would be rude around here to tell someone they were too young/old/ugly to spin. The locals are very nice to old ladies!
* Asking before borrowing a toy, and loaning if asked
* Maintainance of a general mood of fluffy good humouredness even if someone else does make an etiquette mistake (flicking fuel, hurting a toy)
* not burning kero!
Interesting to see this thread revived after so many years.
Reading some of the early threads, particularly Pele's, I notice how focused they are on performance, particularly, it seems, on commercial performance. This brings in an emphasis on ettiquette concerning competitiveness/exclusivness/defending 'copyright', dodgy business tactics and so on.
I am quite familiar with the commercial aspects of fire and other circus arts. My own involvement however is the wider world of community/friendship based spinning: there are far far more people involved at this level than there are professional performers. I wonder if this is also an area that has increased since the original posting of this thread: that playing with fire is less and less seen as an exclusive/heroic/unusual thing to do: that is has been demystified and democratised to some extent. Fire and other spinning here is MUCH more associated with freestyle/feral/forest/festival than performance/theatre/stage/paid security.
At the same time general skill levels have increased enormously as people have shared and developed their own repertoires/styles, and that of the form in general. That would in turn push the standard required to be a standout or professional performer...and either make them more nervous of 'copyright'... more distinctive and stylish in how they do 'standard' moves.. or more creative and innovative... hence the increasing inclusion of quality dance/comedy etc in shows. Similar things have happened in baton spinning/iceskating/drumming... all sorts of physical forms that cross over between public fun and performance/competition.
Anway, in my view, etiquette in my community (Australia, particularly Brisbane) includes:
* sharing and teaching each other moves and sequences. It would be rude to say 'no this is my move' or to resent that someone else had learned how to do it, with or without 'asking' you or needing your help to learn it.
* also sharing and teaching how to make toys/get fuels etc
* including newbies and never shaming/patronising people over their skill levels. I was thinking back to another series of threads too and realise it would be rude around here to tell someone they were too young/old/ugly to spin. The locals are very nice to old ladies!
* Asking before borrowing a toy, and loaning if asked
* Maintainance of a general mood of fluffy good humouredness even if someone else does make an etiquette mistake (flicking fuel, hurting a toy)
* not burning kero!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
PS Pele,
What's a Ren faire? or a swinging Ren show?
PS Pele,
What's a Ren faire? or a swinging Ren show?
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
*guilty smile
Written by: Vampyricacid
5) if i want to learn something i will ask, dont force feed me new trick when i dont want them
*guilty smile
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
Not quite sure what you're meaning by that...
Don't spin off, sqeeze the excess fuel out instead?
Don't spin off ever, just light up and spin?
Don't spin off burning fuel, make sure you've spun off all the excess fuel before you light up?
Don't spin off unless you've got a bucket to catch the excess fuel?
Written by: Vampyricacid
4) dont spin off fuel, its just not nice
Not quite sure what you're meaning by that...
Don't spin off, sqeeze the excess fuel out instead?
Don't spin off ever, just light up and spin?
Don't spin off burning fuel, make sure you've spun off all the excess fuel before you light up?
Don't spin off unless you've got a bucket to catch the excess fuel?
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
Posted:
I hate it when people offer to buy my stuff. It happens suprisingly often.
Oh, and when people encourage their children to ask to have a go with the beamers when I'm in full swing. It's they crying they make when they get hit, kind of puts me off...
I hate it when people offer to buy my stuff. It happens suprisingly often.
Oh, and when people encourage their children to ask to have a go with the beamers when I'm in full swing. It's they crying they make when they get hit, kind of puts me off...
There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.
GOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
Posted:
its not as bad as when there are cones up to form a small area to separate the people from the performers, and all manners of gits, young and old, feel that they can stroll behind the spinners. It irks me more that adults walk by, because, honestly, they should know better; I also forgot to mention that in the particular instance I'm thinking of, the people were carrying snowboards. If you don't want to watch, that's fine, but don't put yourself and others at risk.
its not as bad as when there are cones up to form a small area to separate the people from the performers, and all manners of gits, young and old, feel that they can stroll behind the spinners. It irks me more that adults walk by, because, honestly, they should know better; I also forgot to mention that in the particular instance I'm thinking of, the people were carrying snowboards. If you don't want to watch, that's fine, but don't put yourself and others at risk.
kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more
GOLD Member
Mission: Ignition
534 posts
Location: Central New Jersey, USA
Mission: Ignition
534 posts
Location: Central New Jersey, USA
Posted:
I've gone to a few clubs and had some fun with glowsticks, but I agree, people need to learn common sense. I get there early and establish myself, usually it's only me there spinning (so horribly lonley) sometimes my girlfriend comes and does it too. But the crpwd watching us turns into a bunch of dancing people that just get closer and closer, i can't watch all around me, some people have no clue what's going on. I love this thread, hopefully soon I'll be inivited somewhere and have my first semblance of a gig, even if the pay is just getting in free to the club. Wosh me luck everyone. I've been taking notes.
I've gone to a few clubs and had some fun with glowsticks, but I agree, people need to learn common sense. I get there early and establish myself, usually it's only me there spinning (so horribly lonley) sometimes my girlfriend comes and does it too. But the crpwd watching us turns into a bunch of dancing people that just get closer and closer, i can't watch all around me, some people have no clue what's going on. I love this thread, hopefully soon I'll be inivited somewhere and have my first semblance of a gig, even if the pay is just getting in free to the club. Wosh me luck everyone. I've been taking notes.
Don't mind me, just passing through.
GOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
Posted:
heh;
I got offered to do a fire gig in the backyard of a frat house at a local uni (pay was to be free booze)
Thought about it for about 2 mins, then decided that flame and drunken frat boys don't mix
heh;
I got offered to do a fire gig in the backyard of a frat house at a local uni (pay was to be free booze)
Thought about it for about 2 mins, then decided that flame and drunken frat boys don't mix
kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more
SILVER Member
member
92 posts
Location: Netherlands, Assen
member
92 posts
Location: Netherlands, Assen
Posted:
I just did a show on a big LAN party I went to this weekend. Before we started we made sure that no one could get on the field where we preformed. I really don't like the idea of people who could be drunk or stoned getting near me while i'm playing with fire. It's not savefor them or for me.
The second night i wanted to play some more around the campfire but everyone was drunk so i decided not to play with fire.
When I do shows for people I don't know I always make sure I have some 'security' so people can't come near me, or else I don't play with fire.
I just did a show on a big LAN party I went to this weekend. Before we started we made sure that no one could get on the field where we preformed. I really don't like the idea of people who could be drunk or stoned getting near me while i'm playing with fire. It's not savefor them or for me.
The second night i wanted to play some more around the campfire but everyone was drunk so i decided not to play with fire.
When I do shows for people I don't know I always make sure I have some 'security' so people can't come near me, or else I don't play with fire.
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
well said gabe, to me the concept of owning a move is as ignorant as trying to own one of the laws of physics, a wise lama once said
"Firetwirling movements and tricks are not discovered. They have always simply been. It is just that we are made aware of them through serendipitous practice or the kindness of others' sharing their knowledge."
in my experience the great performers ive had spin sessions with have been the most open with sharing their talents.
well said gabe, to me the concept of owning a move is as ignorant as trying to own one of the laws of physics, a wise lama once said
"Firetwirling movements and tricks are not discovered. They have always simply been. It is just that we are made aware of them through serendipitous practice or the kindness of others' sharing their knowledge."
in my experience the great performers ive had spin sessions with have been the most open with sharing their talents.
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
BRONZE Member
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
Posted:
HERE HERE, i very much agree.
now remember were talking about 'ettiquette' and not fire safety and etc etc. Its more like 'not playing with your cutlery at the table' rather than 'dont stick that fork in your eye its against health and safety'
were talking about respectful things we do for each other whilst we spin, rather than 'dont spin and let go of your poi and burn that thatch cottage to the ground'.thats just obvious sensible behaviour.
with myself and the others i spin with, you dont practise a move you cant do on their poi, as you may well break them (not so much with fire chains of course). and we always take turns to bring the beer that week. we always have rolley breaks before we spin so we wind up and one at the end, to wind down. i love it
HERE HERE, i very much agree.
now remember were talking about 'ettiquette' and not fire safety and etc etc. Its more like 'not playing with your cutlery at the table' rather than 'dont stick that fork in your eye its against health and safety'
were talking about respectful things we do for each other whilst we spin, rather than 'dont spin and let go of your poi and burn that thatch cottage to the ground'.thats just obvious sensible behaviour.
with myself and the others i spin with, you dont practise a move you cant do on their poi, as you may well break them (not so much with fire chains of course). and we always take turns to bring the beer that week. we always have rolley breaks before we spin so we wind up and one at the end, to wind down. i love it
You'll find me on the dance floor
SILVER Member
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
Posted:
i meant the first one Bovril, squeeze not spin
i meant the first one Bovril, squeeze not spin
Proudly Owned By The BMVC
Are You Sniffing My Mitten?
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
In no particular order:
Spatial awareness is very important to me... you should always be considerate of those spinning around you (or standing around you!) and make sure you don't invade their space. People don't like random balls of fire hurtling towards them, no matter how much control you might have.
Positivity and encouragement given to everyone spinning - everyone has a style, even if you don't like it.
Sometimes it's hard to maintain (I forget or am distracted from time to time too), but appreciation should be shown to those who have obviously danced their heart out. Some people don't approve of the audience clapping, but I tend to applaud someone who has just spun well.
Helpful advice and welcome to newbies... we all started somewhere, and I think your first impression of the fire community is one that will last - so we all have a responsibility to welcome new spinners. Teach them how to treat their wicks well, fire safety - and just be generally friendly and welcoming.
Music: Arghhh. Music can totally affect the mood of a gathering, and certainly a dance. Choose music that suits your surroundings and the group of people you are with (a group of stoners might not appreciate death metal on full blast in the same way you do
).
Also (and one of my pet hates)... people arsing around with the music while you're in the middle of a spin. Have respect for those trying to dance. Don't change the cd or flick to a new song while someone is mid-spin. It's really annoying.
Community: Poi and fire spinning is relatively new in Ireland and other countries... more established in the UK and US, Oz, NZ etc. But as the community grows we need to put more effort into maintaining it. So just general respect for others, consideration, inclusion, everyone doing their bit/contributing evenly, consideration for the environment - basic things that tend to get lost as a group grows in size.
In no particular order:
Spatial awareness is very important to me... you should always be considerate of those spinning around you (or standing around you!) and make sure you don't invade their space. People don't like random balls of fire hurtling towards them, no matter how much control you might have.
Positivity and encouragement given to everyone spinning - everyone has a style, even if you don't like it.
Sometimes it's hard to maintain (I forget or am distracted from time to time too), but appreciation should be shown to those who have obviously danced their heart out. Some people don't approve of the audience clapping, but I tend to applaud someone who has just spun well.
Helpful advice and welcome to newbies... we all started somewhere, and I think your first impression of the fire community is one that will last - so we all have a responsibility to welcome new spinners. Teach them how to treat their wicks well, fire safety - and just be generally friendly and welcoming.
Music: Arghhh. Music can totally affect the mood of a gathering, and certainly a dance. Choose music that suits your surroundings and the group of people you are with (a group of stoners might not appreciate death metal on full blast in the same way you do
). Also (and one of my pet hates)... people arsing around with the music while you're in the middle of a spin. Have respect for those trying to dance. Don't change the cd or flick to a new song while someone is mid-spin. It's really annoying.
Community: Poi and fire spinning is relatively new in Ireland and other countries... more established in the UK and US, Oz, NZ etc. But as the community grows we need to put more effort into maintaining it. So just general respect for others, consideration, inclusion, everyone doing their bit/contributing evenly, consideration for the environment - basic things that tend to get lost as a group grows in size.
Getting to the other side 
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